[Closed] "The SNP’s model of independence is broken beyond repair"

To be fair its what the vast majority of econonomists were saying all along. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone with a shred of intelligence.

Whats equally unsurprising is that the SNP leadership appears to have known that the numbers didn't add up, but were happy to put the livlihoods of its citizens at risk in its vain attempt to achieve its goals...

Scotland is a nation of over five million people, with good natural resources and decent infrastructure. It would cope fine with not being controlled by upper class loons trying to cling on to a crumbling British empire.

trying to cling on to a crumbling British empire.

😆

Which powers should she have used Daffy just to help you here's a list of devolved and reserved powers from the scottish parliament website
Devolved matters
Devolved matters include:
agriculture, forestry and fisheries
education and training
environment
health and social services
housing
law and order (including the licensing of air weapons)
local government
sport and the arts
tourism and economic development
many aspects of transport
Reserved matters
Reserved matters include:
benefits and social security
immigration
defence
foreign policy
employment
broadcasting
trade and industry
nuclear energy, oil, coal, gas and electricity
consumer rights
data protection
the constitution

I'm glad someone brought up Scotch independence. I think it's an idea that merits further discussion to see if something might come of it.

Free Yorkshire from the petty stupid narrow minded squabbles of Westminster and Holyrood. We are bigger better and only reliant on a good cup of tea.

konabunny - Member
I'm glad someone brought up Scotch independence. I think it's an idea that merits further discussion...

Yes, it's about time this was brought up. 🙂

But surely the Scots are too wee and stupid to be trusted with running their own country.

What we really need is rule by Etonian porcine necrofellatio enthusiasts under the wise guidance of corporate billionaires, and the opportunity to go killing foreigners in their own homes. We are truly blessed.

🙂

Free Yorkshire

Perhaps we can find somewhere to put all the separatists then evict them, how about Essex?

Free Yorkshire

Yeah, good luck trying to get them to pay for it.

gordimhor - Member
Which powers should she have used Daffy just to help you here's a list of devolved and reserved powers from the scottish parliament website
Devolved matters
Devolved matters include:
agriculture, forestry and fisheries
[b]education and training
environment
health and social services[/b]
housing
law and order (including the licensing of air weapons)
local government
sport and the arts
tourism and economic development
many aspects of transport
Reserved matters
Reserved matters include:
benefits and social security
immigration
defence
foreign policy
employment
broadcasting
trade and industry
nuclear energy, oil, coal, gas and electricity
consumer rights
data protection
the constitution

Perhaps the same ones that Cameron used (Training (to free up £9m to help local businesses and Environment(by attempting to cut the environmental tariffs applied to high energy use) and the ones which the Italians used better Health and Social Services.

What we really need is rule by Etonian porcine necrofellatio enthusiasts under the wise guidance of corporate billionaires, and the opportunity to go killing foreigners in their own homes. We are truly blessed.

What we need is a new system, not just for Scotland, but for the UK, the Libdems were positioning themselves to be just that in 2010, but screwed themselves and the country (in the long term) by focusing on the short term wins offered through entry into a coalition. Don't get me wrong, some of the measures they managed to get enacted during their time in coalition were exceptional, but they sacrificed their party and the future to do it.

Proportional Represenation is where the Lib Dems would still gain the most and the tories would lose the most. Same goes for the SNP.

White Paper debunked - tick
Record in office - WIP

Proportional Represenation is where the Lib Dems would still gain the most

Although UKIP would gain far more.

Yeah, good luck trying to get them to pay for it

Try asking Harrogate, that's where all the rich buggers live. We've got nowt dahnere but oils int rurd.

It's not a question of whether some other party can do better it's a question of whether it's economically possible.

Spot on.

Best comment I've seen in a while on the state of the UK

[i]The UK is like a late middle aged man with impotence. He still strives for the glory days of his youth so he spends on expensive toys that he can't afford and lets the kids go hungry to compensate for the fact that he can't get it up any more.

This is a country which is about to go to war yet again, not because British military intervention would actually make any real difference. A few more bombs from the handful of planes that the RAF can spare won't change the outcome of the war in Syria. The reason that the UK is going to war is because it allows Davie Cameron to pose as an international statesman. It allows an aged superpower that's no longer a power in its own living room to pretend that it still matters in a world where it's long since been an irrelevance.

The only thing that the UK can still get up is the Prime Minister's tongue up the backside of the US President. It would be laughably pathetic if it weren't for the fact that people are going to die.[/i]

It's why we want out.

I'm waiting for the turn of the rest of the UK to vote on whether we want to hang on to Scotland or cut them loose.

That will be more illuminating.

[i]Scotland is a nation of over five million people, with good natural resources and decent infrastructure. It would cope fine with not being controlled by upper class loons trying to cling on to a crumbling British empire. [/i]

This.

All the people lining up to slag off the author and the paper etc - it's quoting a former SNP policy adviser saying that the SNPs independence model is broken. Now unless you think the quote is made up, isn't that quite remarkable and worthy of consideration?

This is what gets on my nerves with lots of Yes supporters, we keep hearing about how much you all want a new kind of politics etc but then you keep resorting to the same cheap ad homs, whataboutery and faulty-logic emotional arguments that you claim to be rejecting. Disappointing.

Now unless you think the quote is made up, isn't that quite remarkable and worthy of consideration?

Not really, everyone knew including the 'Yes' voters.

grum - Member
...This is what gets on my nerves with lots of Yes supporters, we keep hearing about how much you all want a new kind of politics etc but then you keep resorting to the same cheap ad homs, whataboutery and faulty-logic emotional arguments that you claim to be rejecting. Disappointing.

We're really just like anyone else in the UK, faults and virtues and all.

It's just that we find colonial rule a bit oppressive.

All the people lining up to slag off the author and the paper etc - it's quoting a former SNP policy adviser saying that the SNPs independence model is broken. Now unless you think the quote is made up, isn't that quite remarkable and worthy of consideration?

Not really, economic models change all the time. You could just as well argue that every country's economic model is now bust as a result of oil almost halving in value, yet they all keep ticking along....

It allows an aged superpower that's no longer a power in its own living room to pretend that it still matters in a world where it's long since been an irrelevance.

This statement is so wrong its depressing that people actually believe this.

We're really just like anyone else in the UK, faults and virtues and all.
It's just that we find colonial rule a bit oppressive.

Well I see lots of idealistic stuff about being freed from the colonial shackles and becoming a proud new progressive nation, but then it looks like it's all going to be based on the same spin and BS we've already got. Oh well.

but then it looks like it's all going to be based on the same spin and BS. Oh well.

I voted for independence in the hope it could stop the tories from ripping essential public services to shreds here. I'm yet to see any argument against that.

To those that see the North Sea as a main part of Scottish finances, it is a nice bonus but by no means the majority of economic activity here, and were there to be appropriate investment (probably by a government that doesn't rip up all renewables subsidies overnight) we could have a flourishing green energy industry.

It's all irrelevant now, we're stuck in the union. If people in the UK vote to leave Europe but Scotland doesn't, I think there would be good reason to have another referendum on Scottish independence (Despite the SNP's similar levels of willingness to blame Brussels for everything)

If an industry is dependent upon subsidy, I struggle to see how it can be described as flourishing.

[img] ?oh=f05c69047cabbc585cb363177be8de5c&oe=56EF6D54[/img]

It's why we want out.

Then why didn't you vote for it?

Democracy can be a right bitch can't it? 😆

If an industry is dependent upon subsidy, I struggle to see how it can be described as flourishing.

If an industry is critical to society, it is likely to be subsidised to some degree. Conventional power rightly is in order to ensure reliable supply. Being that renewables are dependent upon newer, less well developed technology, it is reasonable to assume that for now subsidies (probably greater than those for conventional power) will be required to achieve the development and encourage the private investment required. It may then flourish and provide an income stream to the country in the future.

So epicyclo, is that 37% thinking it's the biggest issue because it is or isn't happening. Perhaps 37% think that the constant nagging question and bickering is the issue. A once in a lifetime referendum thats what you need to put that issue to bed for the next you know generation.

To those that see the North Sea as a main part of Scottish finances, it is a nice bonus but by no means the majority of economic activity here, and were there to be appropriate investment (probably by a government that doesn't rip up all renewables subsidies overnight) we could have a flourishing green energy industry.

So we are relying on an industry that we don't yet have yet...what else? Finance is pretty strong in Edinburgh, but there was major doubt that that would have remained the case in an independent Scotland.

If an industry is dependent upon subsidy, I struggle to see how it can be described as flourishing.

exactly....

Like it or not the Indy economic arguement was weak at the time. Now even those who pulled it together are saying we'd have been stuffed.

If an industry is dependent upon subsidy, I struggle to see how it can be described as flourishing

I dunno, I reckon our arms industry could easily be described as flourishing right now, or at least very soon.

Dammit. A graph. And it's only page three.

*wanders off grumbling about declining standards*

Finance is pretty strong in Edinburgh, but there was major doubt that that would have remained the case in an independent Scotland.

If an industry is dependent upon subsidy, I struggle to see how it can be described as flourishing.

exactly....

What exactly is a massivle bailout of a failing bank if not a subsidy by a different name?

[i]If an industry is dependent upon subsidy, I struggle to see how it can be described as flourishing. [/i]

Farming as mentioned on a previous post takes more in subsidy as income than actually selling stuff.

Not just Scotland.

http://capreform.eu/fadn-data-highlights-dependence-of-eu-farms-on-subsidy-payments/

Being that renewables are dependent upon newer, less well developed technology, it is reasonable to assume that for now subsidies (probably greater than those for conventional power) will be required to achieve the development and encourage the private investment required. It may then flourish and provide an income stream to the country in the future.

Yep, someone understands at least. Subsidies are an incentive to provide investment in developing technologies, which are always more expensive to implement at the start. The UK has a good track record of abandoning developing technology for other countries to then pick it up and make it very profitable. Just yesterday what I think is the last UK wave power company closed down due to lack of investment http://renews.biz/100597/lack-of-buyer-sinks-aquamarine . UK did the same with wind power many decades ago and now it is a huge export industry for other countries like Germany and Denmark.

Still, renewables are considerably cheaper than the new UK nuclear developments which would be the world's most expensive power.

Subsidies are an incentive to provide investment in developing technologies

I don't disagree, but subsidies have been withdrawn from solar and onshore wind because they should be able to stand on their own two feet now and indeed are. If you look at the cost Denmark and Germany have paid for their position, it is huge - subsidies in Germany are EU20 billion a year.

Probably the same people benefiting from the farming and wind turbine subsidies!

Probably the same people benefiting from the farming and wind turbine subsidies!

Not offshore, which is where you would be looking if you are talking about an energy industry that can provide one of the foundations of a nation's economy. Many farmers will either lease land to developers or operate small wind farms though but insignificant in the bigger picture.

[quote=philjunior ]To those that see the North Sea as a main part of Scottish finances, it is a nice bonus but by no means the majority of economic activity here

Hang on, I'll see if I can find [s]Alex's[/s] Nicola's phone number for you.

The thing is, oil revenue was fundamental to the post independence economic model touted by YS. It's the only way in which Scotland contributed a higher proportion of taxes than it received in government spending - a position which has now reversed with the current oil price. You can't dismiss it as a bonus.

jambalaya - Member

I see the SNP are embroiled in a financial scandal as one their MPs has been reported to the police for allegedly misappropriating donations. Very "establishment" eh ?

Posted 14 hours ago #

Still, a bit to go before they are bullying party members into suicide and trying to convince activists to sleep with MP's, or did you miss all that?

The thing is, oil revenue was fundamental to the post independence economic model touted by YS. It's the only way in which Scotland contributed a higher proportion of taxes than it received in government spending - a position which has now reversed with the current oil price. You can't dismiss it as a bonus.

spot on

Still, a bit to go before they are bullying party members into suicide and trying to convince activists to sleep with MP's, or did you miss all that?

shafting an entire nation due to a pack of lies and misinformation to achieve their politcal end goal must run it close (The SNP aren't unique in this aspect I must admit!)

Don't forget the ends always justified the means....