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Managed my first marathon distance on Sunday as prep for the ultra. Largely off road with 500m of climbing. Felt better than expected.
Good work root.
I’ve just realised that yesterday’s run has taken me over 2000 miles for the year.
Did check to see if 3000 for the year is possible but over 10 miles per day for 3 months is a tad beyond me I think!
I’ve bought a couple pairs of new shorts from Decathlon which rub my upper left thigh - why not the right I’ve no idea. The first pair that did this I cut the gusset out and today rubbed me raw over a 10k. So, what running shorts do we recommend or do I need running boxers or what?
Decathlon shorts, the shortest they do, can’t remember the name, or ASICS Split shorts, again, the shortest one.
This combines with Decathlon running boxers gives me a chafe free experience, though I do lube up my thighs if I’m doing a long run.
I’d struggle without proper boxers, to much movement downstairs, I like everything in place.
Oh, and shaving your legs helps too, less friction, and everyone loves smooth, toned runners legs!
Looking at replacing my GPS watch in the near future - had a Garmin Forerunner 210 for years - and have had no issues at all with reliability, however its a pain having to connect it to the laptop to upload activities.
I'd like something similar in terms of functionality (needs to be able to do intervals and laps) but that can sync to my phone apps. Any recommendations? Less than £150 ideally. I use a Lezyne GPS for riding and will consider other brands than Garmin.
Thanks Lunge
I have a forerunner 235 that does most of what I need. It’s a bit clunky in the garmin way but very reliable and good battery. Annoyingly is doesn’t have a native walking mode, which I do a lot, so I have to change the activity type in garmin app and Strava. I would like for this next time. I have an analogue face on it which works well.
After a bit of advice.
I used to only ever run at the gym on a treadmill and that was really just for 10-15 mins as a warm up. Since coronavirus I haven’t been to the gym so haven’t been running at all.
I want to start running from home as it’s so convenient now that I’m working from home but the issue I’ve had in the past is that running on the pavement seems to ruin my knees.
I’m going to build up slowly but are there any decent trainers or insoles that can help with the impacts or is it a case of just easing myself in gently?
Not an expert, but I've found modern running shoes a lot less jarring than they used to be. Adidas boost, and Nike react or zoom midsoles seem almost bouncy compared to old trainers.
I don't know if that's enough for injury prevention, but definitely more forgiving on the joints. No experience with adding insoles though.
You are right about the start slow, build up gently too. I find running round a grass field or any off road less jarring than actual pavement pounding, but there's always the added risk to a turned ankle, especially as it gets darker and wetter into winter.
Likewise, not an expert, but I'd recommend getting a decent gait analysis if you can, muggomagic. Shoe choice can be totally and utterly chaotic and completely depends what in your knees is hurting, whether it's IT band problems, cruciates, maltracking of the kneecap or something muscular. That dictates whether you need cushioning, support, motion control or whatever.
Dunno where you're based, I use Accelerate in Sheffield when I'm buying new shoes - my gait actually changed as I built up my mileage so as a shoe wore out I got a check again while buying the next set just to make sure they would work for me each time.
Shortbread, a more modern Garmin would do what you want. All do laps and intervals now I think.
I really rate my suunto trainer, great GPS and heart rate and syncs really well to phone app then Strava, so would always have them on the shortlist too - think the more modern equivalent is called suunto 5 if you find it on offer.
Polar do really good kit too and are probably market leader now for wrist heart rate accuracy, think it's the vantage m that might just be in price range of on offer.
Amazon prime day had huge discounts last year, that's 13 Oct this year.
@muggomagic, I think I'd be doing a few things in your shoes.
1. Building up slowly, almost couch 2 5k style, that'll get your joints and body used to running outside.
2. Stay off road if you can. Running round fields is good, albeit a tad boring, but footpaths and trails are great too. Turns out singletrack is good fun running as well as being on a bike.
3. Shoes. Some swear by gait analysis, others don't, I'm in the latter camp but that irrelevant. Go to a running shop, try on a few pairs of mid-range neutral shoes and pick the pair that's comfiest. You're looking shoes like Brooks Ghost, ASICS Cumulus and Nike Pegasus, all have good cushioning and should make the experience more pleasant.
You'll now be told by others to learn to run properly and buy a pair of zero-drop, minimalist shoes (just like Kipchoge in his minimal, 40mm+ AlphaFly's...). The fact that very few people use this style of shoes compared to "normal" running shoes may or may not influence your decision as to if this is the route to go down.
As a relatively new CouchTo5Ker, who has suffered from repeated Achilles strains and very tight calves, I just splashed out on my first proper running shoes after going to a proper running shop.
Basic gait analysis (run on treadmill / do some squats) suggested I need some support. (I'm duck-footed, on my toes/forefoot too much and pronated). After trying a few options I landed on some New Balance 860 v11.
Been out twice in them so far and yes I can definitely feel a difference.
I feel like it has sort of messed up my movement a little bit, but in a good way if that makes sense.
Thanks all. Appreciate the advice, will see if I can find a local running shop for some help choosing shoes. In the meantime I’ll definitely build up slowly this time and I’m following a plan on Garmin Connect.
I started a c25k plan last year and skipped the first few weeks as I found them too easy and a few more weeks into the plan I began suffering from pretty severe knee pain (they were even hurting a lot when resting).
When I recovered I started using a treadmill and thankfully didn’t have any issues, so I’m hoping it’ll be ok but keen to avoid suffering like I did last time.
I'm in the "not a fan of gait analysis" camp, I'd do what lunge says and get some mid-range neutral shoes from pretty much any brand, and build up the milage nice and slowly.
IMO it's also worth thinking a bit about your form: I find heavy plodding at a slow cadence hammers my knees while a nice light run at a higher rhythm is much better, even if the overall pace is similar. You don't need to be running on your toes or anthing like that, just aim for a quick, quiet footfall.
I started a c25k plan last year and skipped the first few weeks as I found them too easy
Text book "cyclist with good CV strength goes running and gets injured" behaviour. Cy25k is as much about building your joints and muscles up as it is about the fitness that it's most often associated with.
I find heavy plodding at a slow cadence hammers my knees while a nice light run at a higher rhythm is much better, even if the overall pace is similar. You don’t need to be running on your toes or anthing like that, just aim for a quick, quiet footfall
Good advise this is. I too feel much less impact when I'm pushing on. Long, slow runs are not good for my knees, I'm much better off running them at some kind of pace.
You don’t need to be running on your toes or anthing like that, just aim for a quick, quiet footfall.
I start off quite light footed but definitely a plodder as I get more tired.
Text book “cyclist with good CV strength goes running and gets injured” behaviour. Cy25k is as much about building your joints and muscles up as it is about the fitness that it’s most often associated with.
Yeah I didn’t realise that at all. It was only afterwards when talking to a friend about how bad my knees were that he mentioned this so I’m going to be super careful this time.
In terms of shoes after reading what you’ve said, I think I’ll stick with my current shoes for now and see how I get on with the slowly building and also running on grass.
If I start to get the the pains again I’ll stop (rather than run though the pain like I did last time) and go get checked out at a running shop.
Text book “cyclist with good CV strength goes running and gets injured” behaviour. Cy25k is as much about building your joints and muscles up as it is about the fitness that it’s most often associated with.
May be guilty of this too. Went running for the first time in 20 years on Sunday. Was pretty pleased as I knocked out a 5k without stopping.
Woke up on Monday and I could hardly walk. Tuesday was just as bad, legs still a bit sore today. If I do stretches before/after will that eliminate the sore legs or do I need to build up the distance more gradually?
If I do stretches before/after will that eliminate the sore legs or do I need to build up the distance more gradually?
You can minimise it. Warm up before hand and stretch afterwards, but ultimately you're using muscles in ways they're not used to so it'll definitely hurt.
C25k always feels slow to start with, and you can maybe miss out week 1, but it does ease you in and helps prevent injuries.
If I do stretches before/after will that eliminate the sore legs or do I need to build up the distance more gradually?
The latter. The former will have no effect at all.
Sort of countering Lunge and Mogrim (and since I raised it initially) I'll admit I'm a fan of gait analysis but I'll also completely admit I've had good and bad experiences, so I can see why others might not be convinced.
I started with an analysis because, after coming back from injury, the shoes I'd used previously were no longer working for me, blistering in my arches very badly. I went to see a trusted contact and, after a very thorough analysis, what he said and what he recommended made sense and worked for me, I didn't just feel like I was being pushed to what they might get extra commission on. That said, I've also had the opposite feeling with a bigger chain running shop since where their conclusion couldn't have been wider of the mark for how I run, and was completely at odds with my understanding of my own running. If I'd gone with their recommendation I would likely have wasted my money and, while I probably wouldn't have injured myself, it could have been a setback in something I'll admit I struggle to enjoy at the best of times.
The slow build approach, warming up and down and some stretching (I do a 1hr yoga/stretching session once or twice a week) should see you right either way.
You’ll now be told by others to learn to run properly and buy a pair of zero-drop, minimalist shoes
That way a ****ed Achilles lies, if my limited experience is anything to go by... 🙂
Fab way to spend an hour with Ricky Gates running across America:
Started the Garmin connect 5k running plan earlier in the week. Did the benchmark run which was just 2 min warm up then 5 min run and 2 min warm down and managed to run for the 5 mins although the last minute was a struggle. The next 2 sessions it’s given me is 3x 5 min runs with 2 min walk between each. I felt that was too much too soon as I’m really conscious of injuring myself again. So I’ve ditched that plan and started the standard c25k plan. I’ve started from week 1 as I want to really build up slowly unlike last time.
It’s seems a bit too easy as it’s 8x 60 secs run and 90 secs walk, but better that than not being able to walk in a couple of weeks.
Nice one muggomagic.
Careful with c25k, I've injured before on that.
I think the problem is that with such short runs and loads of rest s it can almost become like doing intervals.
If you have the CV fitness already, and you're just not used to running, then you can end up going too fast too soon. That's at least as bad as going too far too soon. It's designed to take you from "couch", and most cyclists aren't coming from there.
Running further slower worked better for me, but everyone's got to find their own balance.
Ex runner turned jogger here. We've been running c25k courses at our club for over 8 years now and ^^^^ what they all said.
It does start easy and we have occasionally dropped w1 (e.g. when otherwise the end of the course would be on Boxing Day and something had to be done!) as we've found that people of all shapes and sizes can start at week 3 and still be fine.
I'm now not entirely sure I'm fit enough to lead a course as I've only just got back to 3x5k /week and am v v ploddy. KOKO
Anyone do the Virtual London Marathon today? While out on the bike I noticed lots of runners around and I thought there must be a race on and saw a drinks point, but some seemed to be running a different course to others. Looked at Strava flybys and lots of 26 mile runs and then one title explained it all.
Yeah, I saw loads out as well.
Inspired me a little, may have to do my own next weekend!
I did it.
Owe a bunch of thanks to you guys on here too, all the advice and tips really helped in getting me to the start line. It's one of the best threads on this place, proper inclusive and supportive.
I needed to have a plan that worked in order to have a crack at doing it.
In the end, wind and weather blew in and I had to change it all last minute, but by then the commitment was there so it worked out fine.
I ran it for Macmillan Cancer Support because they've been great for me this year. I can post a link if anyone wants to sponsor me.
Got 3.58.44 official time.
Well pleased.
Awesome work loum, brilliant effort and sneaking a sub-4 too.
Well done loum. 😃
Well done! I can only dream of that distance! Sub 4 without a crowd cheering you on is impressive.
I was amused to receive this text yesterday
A personal worst by over 10 hours! This was despite:
a) not entering the virtual race
b) not running a marathon distance on Sunday
🙂 🙂 🙂
Good effort Turbo, solid pace!!!!!
The streak reaches 200 days. Lovely.
The streak reaches 200 days. Lovely.
Fair play. Are you aiming for a full year or just keep going?
Not sure yet, just keep going and see how it goes. It's weirdly been helped by having no big events this year so I haven't had to take days off to taper.
Unrelated, VaporFly's are back in stock for Nike members. Please buy the size 12's before I do...
I've had to vastly reduce my running due to hip problems after the Marathons. It took almost a month of rest to be able to run/walk 5k without significant pain and whilst I'm back up to 10k now and would like to push for a Half this month, I'm down to 2 runs per week (a 10k and a 5k) and a lot more riding instead.
Stay safe folks.
Anyone else have longer middle toes than big toes. Rub like buggery. Do I need to size up or go wide toe box or both?
Damn my freaky feet 😀
A really interesting podcast here for those interested in the controversial development of shoes, particularly the Nike project. Contains lots of interesting analysis. Begs the question that if you are a competitive road runner why would you not race in these shoes, or one of the other branded equivalents being developed. Sara Hall finished 2nd in London recently with a prototype shoe with a very large stack height, likely to be used to contain some form of carbon plate.
This shoe breakthrough is much more than marketing hype and has changed the sport so much that there is discussion around placing an asterisk against the records set in them.
A subject made even more relevant given the incredible performances last night by Gidey and Cheptegi to break the world 5 and 10000m world records in new Nike spikes.
The Shoe that changed running forever
@paulneenan76 - I have the same. On my right foot it's the second toe but on my left the third.
With the shoes I find it's dependant on the show itself. Some are naturally wider and some are narrow and some are true to size and some aren't. Another factor to consider is whether your feet are gripped well enough by the heel cup or whether they slide forward, this can be exacerbated running down hill.
A heel lock lacing is pretty effective at stopping your foot moving forward so that might be worth considering. Secondly a shoe that is wide enough for your foot, not necessarily a wide fitting shoe and finally maybe go up half a size.
I usually wear Adidas Adios and have done for a while. In the 3's I needed to up a half size but in the 4s and 5s I can get away with the true size. For trail shoes I need to up half a size in Inov8s but I can stay true to size in Nike. It's a minefield!
What alanf says - I've got a longer second toe, and use a heel lock lacing pattern to stop the shoes moving forward and rubbing. I also generally buy shoes with a slightly wider forefoot. I'm not going to recommend shoes as they vary widely - for example unlike Alanf the Adidas I bought on sale rub terribly if I try to do more than 10k in them...
It really is about what fits your feet and what you're comfortable wearing. Also maybe worth considering is the socks you wear. I find that some socks with noticeable stitched areas around the toes can give me horrendous blisters if the sock bunches up a little and the lump at the end of the stitching sits in the wrong place. I try and wear thinner socks without noticeable seems which seems to work for me.
It is a minefield and you think you have found the perfect shoe and then the company goes and 'updates' them and they are no longer perfect so the quest begins again!
Good luck....
There was a shoe in the 80's called the LDV (Nike)
They ceased production but Steve Cram liked them (he was the world mile record holder and World 1500m champion)
Nike continued to make them for him but changed the colourway so they looked like the most recent shoe.
Right, that’s that done. 50k ultra in the bag. 5:19, but not hilly. Tarmac for last 15km so feet were crucified and had to hobble/run to end. Bloody did it though. Never thought I could. Thanks all for this thread that offers a lot of inspiration.
Great stuff - my legs felt rubbish this afternoon, and that was on a 10k! 50k, bloody hell.
Wow, well done root-n-5th. 😃
I did a race yesterday!
Just a wee (covid-safe) club organised thing up a Corbett above Loch Maree but great fun despite the fairly awful weather. Had a good tussle with a couple of the lads and I'd forgotten how much fun a bit of competition is. Legs feeling it today though!
^ 👍😃
Nice one @spin. I feel races might be few and far between in the months to come.
Have been avoiding this thread as I have barely run since Jan (ankle sprain, Spanish lockdown...) but I think it's time to start up again. What has been nice is the total lack of niggles, saved $$$ on physio too. I'll have to build up to it, but looking to run a couple of 10ks a week with a mountain run at weekends. Started last Sunday - walk up, trot down, I'll see how it goes...
Nice one @spin. I feel races might be few and far between in the months to come.
I think that was my first race for a year. Think my last was last year's Ben Nevis race.
Nope, I tell a lie, OMM 2019 at the end of October was the last so not quite a year.
Breaking news ...
George Foster of Ambleside AC has just completed the second fastest ever Bob Graham Round in a remarkable 13:44
Wow.
Yep, amazing stuff. It also highlights how fast Billy Bland was in 1982 as grapefruit was only 9 minutes faster. Jornet on another planet though!
Here's the current ten fastest Rounds:
+------+-----------------------+------+------+---------+------------+-----------+-------------------+--------+--------+
| pos | name | age | year | started | Round time | direction | Qualifying round | gender | season |
+------+-----------------------+------+------+---------+------------+-----------+-------------------+--------+--------+
| 1 | Kilian Jornet Burgada | 30 | 2018 | 06:00 | 12:52 | Clockwise | Qualifying | Male | Summer |
| 2 | George Foster | 34 | 2020 | 05:00 | 13:44 | Clockwise | Second/subsequent | Male | Summer |
| 3 | Billy Bland | 35 | 1982 | 00:00 | 13:53 | Clockwise | Second/subsequent | Male | Summer |
| 4 | Ryan Smith | 0 | 2017 | 04:00 | 14:17 | Clockwise | Ineligible* | Male | Summer |
| 5 | Robert Jebb | 41 | 2016 | 05:00 | 14:30 | Clockwise | Qualifying | Male | Summer |
| 6 | Beth Pascall | 32 | 2020 | 05:00 | 14:34 | Clockwise | Qualifying | Female | Summer |
| 7 | Mark Hartell | 0 | 1999 | NULL | 14:54 | Clockwise | Qualifying | Male | Summer |
| 8 | Stuart Bland | 36 | 1982 | 05:00 | 14:56 | Clockwise | Qualifying | Male | Summer |
| 9 | Mark Palmer | 47 | 2011 | 04:00 | 14:59 | Clockwise | Qualifying | Male | Summer |
| 10 | Jon Duncan | 41 | 2017 | 05:00 | 14:59 | Clockwise | Qualifying | Male | Summer |
+------+-----------------------+------+------+---------+------------+-----------+-------------------+--------+--------+
Ryan Smith ran part of his Round solo hence ineligible for Club membership.
Grapefruit? Sorry, I typed George!
Just to put it in perspective of us mortals, kilian jornet’s averageboace over his round was 4:34/km. George was an hour slower, but must have still been going at a phenomenal pace.
Had it confirmed as a stress fracture on my femur femoral neck. Although a bit lost as they couldn't tell me how long recovered time would be. All I know it was showing as a stress fracture at the time of the MRI. I miss running.
@j4mesj4mes sorry to hear the news, certainly not what any runner wants to hear. Typical stress fractures take 6-8 weeks to heal, and generally they are as good as they were before after healing. This is certainly preferable to some soft tissue injuries which can take much longer and leave you with a long-term weakness which is prone to subsequent damage.
Can anyone recommend running shoes with no arch support?
I have flat feet and find trainers with arch supports become painful to run in.
I’ve tried some Saucony Omni iso2’s and Brooks Transcend 7 but have had to send them back as the arches are too high.
https://www.runnersworld.com/gear/a25750345/running-shoes-flat-feet/
Some ideas if you haven’t seen this article already.
Some ideas if you haven’t seen this article already.
Thanks! Will take a look.
So, err, what do people do when they don't have a weekend long run planned?
A painful knee has ended my run streak and has meant I suddenly have a lot of time on a Saturday and Sunday morning when I'd normally be running.
I'm not sure what to do with all the time in truth. I'm also not used to feeling awake and not be aching on a Saturday afternoon. It's all very weird.
A few weeks back I did my first 5 mile run. The last mile was hard but I pushed on. On my next run maybe 5 days later I barely got past 2 miles and even walking the 2 miles back home was tough verging on painful. I half put it down to over doing it, but also because one thing I did differently was to not walk before I started running. I usually walk for at least a quarter of a mile to 0.35 miles. I've done a couple of 5k runs since and today felt able to do another 5 miles and found it a little easier than the last time. I haven't followed the C25K and don't have any particular plan of where I want to go with running - it's mainly just one of several forms of exercise I using to try and get my whole body moving and exercised.
Anyway what I mean to ask is about warm ups. I usually do a quick warm up indoors to get the heart beating etc, and then do the walk before getting into the run. Looking at strava though I feel a bit in the minority. Just curious about other people's warm ups, are they as important for more experienced runners? Is the walking thing just a beginner's thing? Will I get past beginner stage running just once a week but more often once per week & a half to two weeks?
Well, seeing as summer is definitely over, it's time to start running again!
Last run was in July, I've been concentrating on mtb as I've had 3 big mtb trips between then and now, time to get back running regularly to top up the riding miles.
So today's trail run was 6k at 6.22 /km, avg HR of 149. Glad the fitness is still there (bloody should be the amount of mtb climbing and riding I've been doing!), will just need to get the legs used to running again.
sirromj - maybe other people are warming up but they do it separately and only record the actual run on strava, if that makes sense? For what it’s worth I do just tend to run from the door and take the first km or mile pretty easy. I’ve found it takes a good 20 minutes though before I feel fluid and am running half decently.
What he said.
@sirromj when I was starting out I used to walk the first 10 minutes, which conveniently led me to a drinking fountain (ideal on the return leg) then start my run. These days I just take it easy for the first 5-10 minutes - usually I start properly running from a convenient point. On Friday for example I headed down from my house to the main road (just over a kilometre), waited to cross the road, then started the main part of my run (and hit lap on the Garmin - if you're doing this kind of run make sure you don't have auto-lap on!).
Couple of shots from today's "run", where we managed a half marathon in about 4 hours 🤣🤣🤣
Has to be said there was a lot of scree, we got lost and had to go cross-country a couple of times, so it wasn't that bad 🙂
I tend to do a short, brisk walk (a few mins) and take the first km nice and easy for my warm ups.
I never warm up/down.
Before I ran more regularly I used to have to stretch afterwards or I’d be crippled the next day but forgot one day, didn’t suffer and haven’t bothered since.
Thanks, helpful to hear a little about how others do things!
Didn't do the most thorough of warm ups indoors and noticed it took a while to get warmed up while running.
Will have to give the lap button on my garmin a try, but almost guarantee I'll forget.
One thing I've noticed is in a car you don't see inclines, on a bike you they're definitely there, but running they smack you round the face repeatedly! So glad I don't live anywhere hilly like that ^^^!
Just curious about other people’s warm ups, are they as important for more experienced runners? Is the walking thing just a beginner’s thing? Will I get past beginner stage running just once a week but more often once per week & a half to two weeks?
Warm ups are important. Stretching serves no real purpose although you may get a nice feeling from it. You need to prepare the muscles you are going to use so a brisk walk or a very slow jog to start with until you feel ready to pick it up.
I'm pretty terrible at warming up, although generally take the first 1-2km a bit easier. If I'm planning a hard run from the off the start is always hard work, but gets a lot easier after about 5 minutes for the same effort level. I find that the cool-down is as important after a big effort to stop seizing up, so I'll generally stop at at least half a km from the house and walk the last bit.
On Saturday I had my first race since January! 5km around a course with a decent hill in the middle, 10 waves of 10, starting 1 minute apart, roughly equal ability. I was lucky to be starting in the 3rd wave. This meant that the ridiculously fast guys were going off ahead of me so I wouldn't be tempted to annihilate myself from the off trying to keep up with them. Was very pleased to obliterate my time from the last time I've raced over this course with 15:13, so clearly the long silly solo stuff I've done over the summer hasn't done any harm 🙂
XC next weekend too, which should be great fun, in a cold wet exhausting way!
I warm up for some runs, and not others.
If I'm doing a race, particularly a 10k or under, then I'll warm up properly. 15 minutes or so of getting the heart rate up, getting muscles moving and making sure everything is working at it should be. But, I only do that for the shorter events as it's a thrash from the gun so you need to be ready.
Club runs I have a 1 mile run to the club, but don't do anything more than that.
Longer runs I don't bother, just take it a little gently for the first mile.
Blimey TF - that is fast! What would you say your best distance is given you can knock out ultras too? Struggling to get under 20 minutes personally for 5k but planning on building up a bit more volume and short intervals in the next few months.