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First 10 mins felt hard and short of breath and panicked
Classic non runner starts off too quickly, we all did it. Not sure you'll seee any biking benefits with just a week running, but long term it definitely helps.
@lunge - top work with the streak, and I know what you mean about different days feeling completely different.. it's all part of running's allure. I never quite know how I'll perform.
Not sure what number of days I'm on now for my streak, but it stretches back to 25th May 2019.
Thanks @alanf, and a quick google reveals you're on 454 if you ran today. Now that is a streak!
Cheers @Lunge - yeah did about 4 with the dog today. Puts me on about 33 for this week so far.
My streak should really go back to 30 Sep 2018, but for a dog bite 1 week after London 2019 put me out for 20 days with a DVT and severe swelling. I was more bothered about my streak than the pain, and the blood running down my leg!
The great thing was – I felt like I was able to make a little progress – but at a pace which seems both doable, and sustainable for me going forwards. Thanks again for all input – much appreciated.
It's a pity park runs aren't available as they're a nice distance for measuring your progress. But good to here you're having fun 🙂
good to here you’re having fun
"hear", even
Thanks mogrim. I have a couple of parkruns near me and would definitely think about having a go once they are up and running again.
Still struggling with a hip flexor strain, so can't run. Physio said I need glute strength. I miss running
Just about finished the couch to 5k which I'm happy about, only thing is, for the past few weeks on the longer runs ( well I say longer, but they're only 25 -30 mins!) I'm getting some heel pain. It's not severe just an aching Achilles tendon. It's worse at the start of the run then eases off, then sore afterwards for a day or so. Been doing some heel drop stuff and stretching but still the same. Any advice, or maybe I'm just not designed to be a runner!
Is the kind of thing that will gradually improve with more running (like is it down lack of use / inflexibleness) or will running make it worse? I run off road, not hilly, but mixed terrain, rocky bits, muddy bits, grassy bits. Don't know if that's a good or bad thing for my heel, but makes it more interesting for me.
Anyone run/hiked Goat Fell on Isle of Arran? Heading there next week and it's on my list of possible runs, really like the idea of doing sea to summit, seems its a popular walking route.
It’s worse at the start of the run then eases off, then sore afterwards for a day or so. Been doing some heel drop stuff and stretching but still the same. Any advice, or maybe I’m just not designed to be a runner!
I could have written that word for work 3 years ago.
Sounds like you’re doing the right things, just make sure your heel drops are slow down, 20 seconds ish, and faster up, you should almost be jumping towards the end of your recovery.
I took a couple of weeks off and send 30 mins each day doing he’ll drops, calf raises and lots of stretches. And some massage around the area too. It cleared it up and hasn’t really come back since.
Off road is generally considered better as it’s a softer impact.
Once I started running after the 3 weeks I tried to do the first half mile around a football pitch as it was on soft grass and was flat. Once I’d warmed up that way it felt better for the rest of the day.
Nice work all, and a speedy recover my to all those injured.
Ultra training started yesterday for a 50k I’m doing in October. 26km which is my longest ever run. Ran 4.5km to club meet, did 17km with them at too fast a pace and ran home. Suitably knackered but ok. Running with others helps.
If you’d told me a year ago I could run that far and was planning an ultra I would have laughed quite loud.
Topo Ultrafly 2 road shoes. 500km in and look and feel as good as new! Seems to be quality kit.
Anyone run/hiked Goat Fell on Isle of Arran?
Not personally but there's an annual fell race on the route. Try google.
@mattcartlidge this is a Strava segment for ascending the Goat
Crack 40 minutes and you'll hold the KOM and take it from a guy who supported John Kelly on the last leg of his Grand Round 😀
Anyone run/hiked Goat Fell on Isle of Arran? Heading there next week and it’s on my list of possible runs, really like the idea of doing sea to summit, seems its a popular walking route.
I've walked it many times, and ran it once. It's a tough hill, a lot tougher than many munros, as you rightly say - starts at sea level, so you're doing the full height*. It's also a very steep and rocky descent from the summit down to around 2000'.
I'd be tempted to do a bit of a circuit, rather than just an up and down tbh, the ridges on Arran are made for hill running IMO. Tarsuinn trail 'ultra' route from last year below, not technically an ultra but 7000' of ascent puts it in that territory for me!
https://www.strava.com/activities/2452312857/segments/61864339031
* Interesting wee fact, the 4 corbetts of Arran in one go is more ascent than the 9 munros of Glenshee. 🙂
Footwear tips please. Given my propensity to tendonitis in the shin area I’m looking to try a decent pair of shoes instead of going down the physio and custom made insoles route. Are there any brands that stand out? Would a trail shoe be any better? I’d assume trail shoes may offer more support but might be a bit heavier which wouldn’t do me any favours in the shin department. Sorry for all the questions but I’m really loving trying to run but petrified of getting a bad case of shin splints again!
@jodafett, I’m thinking you’ll want loads of cushioning which means I’d look at a road shoe.
ASICS Novablast are meant to be on the soft side, I’ve not run in them but they good get reviews.
The new Nike Pegasus 37’s have loads of cushioning too.
Brooks Ghost are very well padded.
All are good, solid running shoes. Obviously for the ultimate in cushioning you want a pair of Nike VaporFly’s or AlphaFly’s but that’s £280 to spend assuming you can source some.
Whatever pair of hundred quid Asics you can get on their outlet or sportsshoes.com for fifty quid. 😃
Don't go for the Nike vapor fly or alpha fly.
There's the carbon plate through the middle that makes them springy, but very stiff. You can't bend them in half.
Obviously great shoes for running fast in, but not really the best for running slowly, injury recovery, or injury prevention.
Go for a more traditional cushioning shoe
@jodafett, I’m thinking you’ll want loads of cushioning which means I’d look at a road shoe.
Whereas I would say the exact opposite for someone with a shin problem.
Run in a firmer shoe ( preferably with a lower heel drop) and you get more feedback from the ground. You naturally run with better form and higher cadence which results in less impact each stride. They are inherently more stable too.
Soft shoes encourage you to clout the ground harder and the duration of the impact is extended. They allow you to overstride and heelstrike and often encourage poor form with lower cadence.
It's the combination of heelstriking, overstriding and lower cadence that often causes shin pain.
Sorry for all the questions but I’m really loving trying to run but petrified of getting a bad case of shin splints again!
Are things not improving at all? I had been in the walk/jog/walk/jog/walk stage for ages (not following C25K program) and mentioned it to some work colleagues and they basically just said to run through it, focus on something else completely, going on holiday, etc, whatever it takes to keep going.
I knew that was against the advice of what to do if you get shin splints, but I'd been trying to run for some time and was slowly improving, so decided to just to run a full 5k without stopping to walk any sections and see how it turned out. To my surprise I managed it and while there was discomfort in the shins, it was gone within 7 days and so after a week went for another run and did it again.
I've been doing as Wardee advises; I'm using Merrell Trail Glove 5 shoes. They're very light, have arch support, seem to be working for me. I've no experience of running in other footwear so can't offer any comparison. If I find my shins are getting uncomfortable I've been trying to adjust my technique. Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, sometimes though just a small change is enough, maybe it's a bit like changing hand position on the handlebars of a bike.
I’ve not ran since my original post but think I might try again at the end of the week as the shins have felt better today. All the suggested stretches have been helping. I’m going to try walk/run as opposed to just running and build from there but wondered if decent shoes would help.
Another vote for lighter, "neutral" shoes - I spent many of my early years as a runner religiously following the advice then given about using stability shoes, controlling your pronation and the like, and I'm pretty sure that was why I got injured so often 🙂
Lighter shoes without too much drop (but probably not zero drop), and focus on "running light" with a higher cadence than feels natural at first. Easier said than done, but a good drill to try is to run as quietly as you can: find a nice, quiet park track (ideally asphalt for this one) and run down it normally. Then try again, but this time focus on the noise you make and try and reduce it. Don't go too far and start running on tip-toes, but you want to aim for a nice, quiet, fast foot strike with minimum slapping against the ground. Don't do all your run on this track, just spend a few minutes seeing how it feels.
Could you explain “drop” please?
Drop is the difference between heel and toe height - the bigger the drop, the more your foot is angled down when standing on a flat surface. 20 years ago a 12mm drop was usual, which is to say your heel is 12mm higher than your toes. Today 8mm is more usual, but you can also get "zero drop" shoes where your foot is completely level when standing on the flat. Basically the higher the drop the more likely you are to land heel-first, which does slow you down. At the same time, a higher drop is usually associated with more cushioning, which can make running more comfortable. As usual: trade offs 🙂
Zero drop came into fashion about 10 years ago with the book "Born to Run", which supposedly showed that humans evolved to run, and barefoot (i.e. zero drop). I'm not 100% convinced, but it's quite an entertaining read but just keep a slight sceptical/open mind about the whole thing:
Should also say drop is not the same as cushioning: you can get zero drop shoes with a lot of cushioning, which means the whole foot is higher off the ground. Another trade off: a taller shoe is inherently less stable, with an increased risk of turning your ankle.
Thanks for the explanation.
“ a taller shoe is inherently less stable, with an increased risk of turning your ankle.”
I also have fairly weak ankles so I’ll stay away from those!!
Can i put a recommendation in for the Salomon Sense Ride. Lightweight, reasonable drop (8mm?), cushioned but not platform shoe like. They're a trail shoe, but i've been wearing them for all my running
For what it's worth i have an 'asics' shaped foot and these fit me nicely after they broke in around the toe
I also have fairly weak ankles so I’ll stay away from those!!
They're fine on road, it's more of an issue with trail shoes when you're running on uneven surfaces.
Zero-drop shoes work for some, less so for others. It also takes a good amount of time to get used to the technique. I love a pair of racing flats with little drop but if I trained in them I'd be constantly injured, the impact it has on your calf's shouldn't be underestimated.
My suggestion of cushioned shoes is based on the fact that every person I know who's been to physio because of shin splints has been told to run on soft surfaces when they first come back, hence a well cushioned shoe would help.
Very helpful and interesting posts about shoes - and well-timed for me, as I'm currently hovering over the buy button for some road shoes.
I have one outstanding question ... please let me know when I run out of credit for questions, as I'm aware I can't contribute much to this thread - apart from enthusiasm 😃.
I’m thinking of some sofa shoes from Hoka - they seem to be what I’m looking for. Performance is not an issue for me - just want to improve within myself - but comfort, enjoyment, and longevity (of my poor old bones &c.) are important.
My question is … would a Hoka road shoe also be okay for a dry, hard-packed dirt trail - a few roots here and there, some lumps and bumps - but a fairly even surface? I’m doing most of my running on tarmac at the moment due to current circumstances, but will gravitate back off-road when I can. Or would it be better just to wear my (non-sofa) trail shoes for that type of surface?
In relation to sore shins - I’ve really noticed the effect of the greater impact from running on tarmac - mostly on my shins - hence the search for some road shoes, as I’m currently running in my trail shoes. (I only have one pair of running shoes - I know this may be hard to believe for some of you 😉).
turboferret - thanks for describing that stretch for shin splints - it has worked well for me.
Soft shoes encourage you to clout the ground harder and the duration of the impact is extended.
My biomechanics is pretty rusty - but I would have thought an extended duration of impact would reduce the risk of injury. Apologies if I have inferred incorrectly from what you said - happy to be educated - what knowledge I once had is likely out of date.
It’s the combination of heelstriking, overstriding and lower cadence that often causes shin pain.
but you want to aim for a nice, quiet, fast foot strike with minimum slapping against the ground.
I think I naturally run with a high cadence and short stride. I had been thinking this was something to fix - but, perhaps not. As always, very helpful.
My question is … would a Hoka road shoe also be okay for a dry, hard-packed dirt trail – a few roots here and there, some lumps and bumps
They'd be usable, a few guys in my club wear Hoka and the clubs runs this time of year are almost all off road. You just have to be a bit more careful on the roots and rocks. I'd not wear them on a big day out on the trails or the mountains, but for 8 miles in the woods or on farm tracks they seem usable.
I mean, they're clearly not the right shoe for the job, but you're not going to immediately break yourself if you use them for that.
I only have one pair of running shoes – I know this may be hard to believe for some of you 😉
Heretic, burn him!!!!!!
I know ... sorry ... I really don't belong here! 😊
I mean, they’re clearly not the right shoe for the job, but you’re not going to immediately break yourself if you use them for that.
Great - thanks lunge!
@Rona glad to hear the stretch worked. Clearly not a cure-all for all sore shins, but was great for me, and apparently at least 1 other!
Road shoes are going to be fine on most surfaces assuming it's dry, it's when it gets wet or slippery that you need more in the way of grip. I've raced several dry trail marathons and other distances in Nike VaporFlys, a 100% road shoe with virtually zero tread and been absolutely fine. However at the other end of the spectrum I've raced a wet and muddy half, and a 15 miler in XC spikes 😀 Also not necessarily designed for that distance or range of surfaces, but they worked great. Rather uncompromising, but fast.
My question is … would a Hoka road shoe also be okay for a dry, hard-packed dirt trail – a few roots here and there, some lumps and bumps – but a fairly even surface?
I used to do all my running locally on that sort of surface using running shoes, and it was never an issue. I still use them occasionally around here if I want to do a faster workout - trail shoes give you great protection and grip, but at the cost of less speed. The only surface you really want to avoid is anything with pebbles or similar small stones as they hurt.
@turboferret Make that 2. Stretches seem to be helping me.
A big thanks to everyone giving advice. Who knew running could be so complicated 😂
Thanks turboferret - very interesting. And good to know - I suspected my trail shoes might be a better bet if it was wet.
I used to do all my running locally on that sort of surface using running shoes, and it was never an issue. I still use them occasionally around here if I want to do a faster workout – trail shoes give you great protection and grip, but at the cost of less speed.
Thanks mogrim - very helpful. I suspect speed will never really be on my radar - probably not possible to run much slower than I do - shoe choice will likely never help me 😂.
The only surface you really want to avoid is anything with pebbles or similar small stones as they hurt.
Thanks - good to know and, for the moment anyway, not an issue for me.
Good run this morning, a few new trails and others that I hadn't done for ages. A couple of photos from the highest point, "La Peñota", which is at just under 2000m (1945m to be precise) in the mountains to the west of Madrid:
Just shy of 26km when we got back to the car, in just over 4 hours.
Our club sessions start up again on Tuesday. Suspect I'll be getting my arse kicked!
Our club sessions start up again on Tuesday. Suspect I’ll be getting my arse kicked!
We’ve been, albeit unofficially, going for 6 weeks or so and it’s been awesome.
Few things better than getting beaten up on a club run followed by a beer watching the cricket (we share a pavilion with a cricket team) as the sun goes down.
This weeks 8 minute milers was a very civilised run until 3 miles from home when someone attacked. Cue 3 miles at 6:30’s. Wonderful stuff!
This weeks 8 minute milers was a very civilised run until 3 miles from home when someone attacked. Cue 3 miles at 6:30’s. Wonderful stuff!
I can but dream! Shins still twinging but managed 2 slow 5k’s this week. Bought some new shoes so going to give them a bash this week. Hopefully they’ll help along with all the stretching!
^^ Can’t get to grips with this quoting malarkey either!!
I've been considering changing from Asics Cumulus to a different brand. I've loved them but wonder if I should try others as I tend to get plantar fasciitis and generally my feet are the only part which get sore during latter stages of long runs. Are there any brands I should consider? Thanks.
I have a query - are shoes advertised as 'trail' running shoes simply for not running on nice grass or pavements/ roads and running on the sort of 'trails' one might take a gravel bike on or are they for actually running up mountains?
There's a pretty big variation so it's hard to generalise like that.
I guess it depends what shoe it is and wood advertising it.
Which ones?
Someone on here's portion got some experience or ideas..
I’ve been considering changing from Asics Cumulus to a different brand.
I went from ASICS cumulus to Nike Pegasus and Brooks Ghost. Both are similar, well cushioned every day shoes but they work better for me than the ASICS.
I have a query – are shoes advertised as ‘trail’ running shoes simply for not running on nice grass or pavements/ roads and running on the sort of ‘trails’ one might take a gravel bike on or are they for actually running up mountains
As above, it depends.
Some trail shoes are just a road shoes with an aggressive sole unit for some more grip. Others are for climbing mountains.
I have a query – are shoes advertised as ‘trail’ running shoes simply for not running on nice grass or pavements/ roads and running on the sort of ‘trails’ one might take a gravel bike on or are they for actually running up mountains
As mentioned more than once, it depends 🙂
The following are variables:
* Sole type - this is similar to MTB tyres: some are more aggressive, with spaced out lugs; others have more lugs which is better on smooth surfaces. Lug length is also a factor - 6mm is about the longest they get, and is good for mud or grass. But less good on rock. All brands promise high durability with great grip, and sometimes they're right...
* Rock plate - some shoes include a rock plate, which provides protection for the forefoot at the expense of less flexibility.
* Cushioning - generally more cushioning is better for ultra distances, if you're doing shorter distances you won't need as much. Cushioning agains limits flexibility and adds weight. It also makes the shoe taller, which can increase the risk of you turning an ankle.
* Upper - the upper is usually made from heavier duty materials compared to a road shoe, with a decent amount of rubber on the toe to protect you when you (inevitably) stub your toe on something. A few shoes also use Goretex, but outside of snow running I personally don't think it's of much use. Taking this to an extreme, La Sportiva make a full-on winter shoe with goretex and a built-in gaiter: https://www.lasportiva.com/es/calzado-hombre/mountain-running-a/uragano-gtx
* Fit - this is fairly similar to road shoes, narrow/wide etc. If you're doing an ultra you probably want a slightly wider shoe (particularly in the toe box) to help with swelling. You need a fairly tight fit around the heel to stop your foot moving around on the descents.
Thanks, I though this may be the case. I was looking at:
- Brooks Divide
- Nike Juniper
- Inov8 Terraultra
I do a bit of road running but would like to try going up some hills - not scampering over rocks/ bogs specifically but will encounter some pretty steep/ scrambly situations in my local area.
Nice pics mogrim - great to have this kind of scenery close by.
My everyday running scenery is somewhat less impressive, although the other day I did enjoy running alongside a couple of horses racing each other in the field beside me - they beat me fair and square. 🙂
New running shoes are ordered - a bit like waiting for ‘New Bike Day’ - although clearly not quite as exciting. I'm easily pleased.
– Brooks Divide
– Nike Juniper
– Inov8 Terraultra
I've not tried any of those, but from a quick google I'd get either the Brooks or the Inov8's... the sole of the Nike's looks like it'd be a bit of a nightmare if you get any kind of mud around where you live.
New Ramsay's Round record by Findlay Wild (who else?) today. 14.42 which is about an hour and a half off the previous.
Also a new Paddy Buckley record - Math Roberts in 16:37, nearly an hour better than Damien Hall's time.
And ...
Carol Morgan set a new women's 24hr fell record with 65 Lakeland tops, bettering Nicky Spinks' 64 tops. Don't know the extra top or the overall time yet.
This year has been a bit of a stunner, only the Men's summer BGR record and the women's winter BGR record haven't been bettered in the Lakes.
This year has been a bit of a stunner, only the Men’s summer BGR record and the women’s winter BGR record haven’t been bettered in the Lakes.
No racing for these guys, so plenty time to train and plan for record attempts this year. Finlay Wilds record time was unsupported as well.
His time is incredible, local guy to me who is incredibly fit did it in just under 9 hours longer than FW.
And Donnie Campbell on track to beat the record of 39 days and 9 hours to do all 282 munros (and bike between them).
- Brooks Divide
– Nike Juniper
– Inov8 Terraultra
If there is a Nike option I would always take it. Consistently the best "general" shoe manufacturer in my experience. There is a shift towards extreme and gnarly shoes when they are not required. Unless you need something heavily studded then I would go for a general shoe with a good outersole such as the Nike waffle which is generally fine for most conditions and comfortable on road and hardpack when you have worn £40 off your Invo8's
If there is a Nike option I would always take it. Consistently the best “general” shoe manufacturer in my experience. There is a shift towards extreme and gnarly shoes when they are not required. Unless you need something heavily studded then I would go for a general shoe with a good outersole such as the Nike waffle which is generally fine for most conditions and comfortable on road and hardpack when you have worn £40 off your Invo8’s
I'd pretty much agree with every word of that.
For a really good all rounder, look at the Pegasus Trail. Perfectly fine on the road an cracking for most off-road stuff as well unless you're getting silly. Very much the gravel bike of running shoes.
I. perhaps misguidedly, have Nike down as a fashion brand, like North Face outdoor gear, I wouldn't consider them, but other more knowledgeble folks like surfer above will disagree.
Bought a pair of inov8 mudclaws, ran the carnethy 5 on their first outing, straight onto ebay they went. Awesome grip on mud, but felt perched like Elton John in his 70's platform boots, the narrowest shoe I've ever seen. So that's inov8 out the window now too. 🙂
I. perhaps misguidedly, have Nike down as a fashion brand
I think it's easy to get that impression, but they do make some really, really good kit.
You only have to look at the VaporFly and AlphaFly range to see the amount of research that goes into their race shoes.
Even the mid-range stuff, I always rave about the Pegasus for instance, is as good if not better than other manufacturers.
For a really good all rounder, look at the Pegasus Trail. Perfectly fine on the road an cracking for most off-road stuff as well unless you’re getting silly. Very much the gravel bike of running shoes.
That's not the same model the OP was asking about, though! I've got nothing against Nike, but the Juniper trail has this sole:
... and that heel looks like it would lethal descending on anything even slightly wet.
Agree @mogrim, I just thought I'd throw in another shoe.
That's not the tread of a trail shoe at all!
No racing for these guys, so plenty time to train and plan for record attempts this year.
It's not just the top guys, currently for this year 8 out of 43 BG successes are sub 20hr so 18%, prior to this year that figure was 127 out of 2384 or 5%. OK not big figures to work with or assume a trend but nearly four times the rate? Last year it was 12% and that felt like an exceptional year.
The racing thing works in two ways: less injury and fatigue; looking for something "to do" that isn't restricted because of group gatherings.
OK not big figures to work with or assume a trend but nearly four times the rate?
A fast round will always generally be around the months when big races are also on, and would mean recovering when these guys want to be racing usually, not an issue this year. Also lockdown will have provided an awful lot of folk an awful lot of time to train and focus more than they normally would.
@mrsheen - platar fascitis... I found it was the footbed more than the shoe which impacted me. Most of the off the shelf shoes have a crappy, waffer thin bit of foam with no support. I've got really high arches and walking on hard floors in bare feet kills me. Same for running in shoes with no arch support. I have a pair of these in my running shoes now - different heights available https://www.shoeinsoles.co.uk/sidas-3feet-active-insoles-for-high-arches.html
@nobeer - I can't get Inov8 to fit me either but they do come in different width fittings - mudclaws are the narrowest I think.
@mogrim Not very grippy in mud etc I agree. Assumed they had at least a waffly type sole which is generally great on most surface.
Having said that can you show me a sole that does grip on wet rock? It is the holy grail and nothing, even the most studded sole grips on wet rock when descending....
Having said that can you show me a sole that does grip on wet rock?
Absolutely depends on the rock type IMO, Arran?, everything will grip, the Galloways? nothing will grip!
Having said that can you show me a sole that does grip on wet rock? It is the holy grail and nothing, even the most studded sole grips on wet rock when descending….
There are degrees of uselessness, though 🙂
And what Nobeerinthefridge said: go running in the hills above Valencia and you'll be on your arse in seconds, it's all chalk. Round here it's granite and usually pretty grippy. Until it freezes, and that's when we break out the crampons...
– Inov8 Terraultra
I've had 8-9 different Inov8s but haven't particularly gelled with these. They feel a bit lifeless - they fit the same as all the others but these are one of their wider shoes. Maybe I'm just not a great candidate for zero drop? I'd go Trailtalon or Trailroc first. The Roclite is a good all rounder too. They'll all take a bit of road.
Donnie Campbell makes the BBC for his Munro record - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-53999465
Saw Donnie coming into Beinglas a couple of weeks back, looked fresh as paint. Amazing effort, what an achievement.
Just back from a week's family holiday in Kent. Not the most exotic destination but suited us really well and was nice and local too. I planned lots of running routes in advance with the help of the Strava Heatmap which meant I had lots of options available every day.
While not exactly mountainous, certainly hillier than south London, and apparently I climbed ~2000m, double my usual weekly amount. Also for a bit of fun I targeted a few Strava Segments - a total of 29 for the week, 9 of which were during the last run - this was quite a satisfying result after a decent effort 😀
I didn't run any more volume than normal during the week, I can certainly feel that my legs have done some work 🙂
Plenty of gold on there turboferret!
I see the FRA are banning GPS from fellraces next year. I know lots of races had independently banned them but now across the board.
The use of GPS devices (or similar technologies) to
assist with navigation or positioning in any way is now
completely prohibited in all FRA races. This includes
(but is not limited to) display of a map, fixing current
position, following a “breadcrumb trail” and any “offtrack” visual or audio warnings. Runners who use such
a device – even momentarily for repositioning – must
retire and declare themselves non-competitive to the
Race Organiser
I don’t know a lot about fell racing, but it seems a bit ludditey.
A skill of Hill racing is navigation, particularly in the longer races, there's not a 'course' as such, there's reward for taking more direct lines for example. You could argue that then it's too favourable to locals, but there's races all over the UK in the race series.
I can see why they do this, but some of it is questionable, stipulation to carry a map and compass, but most folk I know that race wouldn't know how to navigate with those.
I'm not a fellracing expert having only done a handful but I like the idea. Courses aren't marked and part of the challenge is route-finding. Using GPS basically eliminates a core part of the challenge.
I don’t know a lot about fell racing, but it seems a bit ludditey.
It is. BUT - I think that's just the way it should be. As NoBeer says, half the skill is in finding a good route, not just following flags. GPS for tracking is still allowed - so you can still Strava it - as long as you're not using it for nav. Navigation isn't rocket science, it's a skill you can learn, but it's been on the wane for years as people just got used to using Sat Nav for everything. The stipulation for a map and compass is in place so that if the clag descends and you get lost, in theory you should be able to get yourself out of trouble and back on course.
I grew up orienteering, and I've been getting back into it in recent years. I can't stand 'running for the sake of running': you'll very rarely find me mashing miles out along pavements or just 'going for a run', I just find it purposeless and painful*. But give me a map and let me loose on some decent complex terrain and I'm happy as Larry, even if I'm vaguely lost! I shudder at the thought of running a road 10km, half or marathon, but I've run a couple of 50 mile trail Ultras and have another one in mind for next year if events are back to running normally.
My local orienteering club have punted a load of courses onto an app called MapRunF through Covid, both 1hr Score (get as many checkpoints as you can in the time) format and a linear course 'Lockdown Series'. You print out a map, plan your route and go for it whenever you like, the app works as tracking and checkpoint check-in, but doesn't display your position while you're actually running, so you can't use it for navigation. I think it's a good compromise, and a couple of the mini Mountain Marathon series are picking it up as well - saves on organisers having to place flags or SportIdent boxes at control sites.
It's encouraged me back into some sort of running, at least. I've knocked a couple over 2mins off my decade-old 5km PB over lockdown - down to 24:15, helped greatly by the fact I've lost 10kg. I'm entered for a couple of mini-MM events over autumn/winter and the Great Lakeland 3-Day next year.
* NB - Not having a go at people who do enjoy running just as running. That's just not me!
In a way I think its good to encourage more self reliance and reduce the dependency on a battery powered navigation and it retains the eccentricity of fell running compared to road racing. I think though that there's deliberate stubbornness involved that doesn't help.