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Of the current crop of distance runners Finlay was most likely to be close to or better than KJ's time. Certainly in the Dales it was very warm yesterday which might not have suited him. Not sure if Rob Jebb still has a fast time in him, well faster than his 14hrs30.
The first post on this page - https://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showthread.php?24227-Kilian-bg-attempt/page8 is about Kilian's attempt, note that he spent several minutes sat down before Honister, I think it was about eight which roughly tallies with Finlay suddenly "gaining time" around there by that amount.
At the bottom of this page http://www.bobgrahamclub.org.uk/index.php?page=records is a drop-down list to select various "records". Doesn't have this year's attempts added but with Finlay's time there's only 11 under fifteen hours.
Bit if a hummable brag here, but as a 40 year old who’d never run 4 years ago I’m quite pleased with myself.
At the start of the year I set a few goals and today I ticked another off. The goals were:
Sub-20 5k - done, 18:33
Sub-40 10k - done, 37:44 today.
Sub-90 half - done, 1:28:24
So that leaves only one left.
Sub-3 marathon. And that scares me more any of them.
The question, as ever, is “what next?”.
Well done! Sounds like me about 10 years ago lunge. Was never a runner when younger but took it up for the convenience as much as anything. Your shorter distance PBs are already quite close to mine, so if you have a decent aptitude for marathoning (you won't know till you try!), sub-3 should be within reach. I have nibbled a bit off most years and got down to 2:47 as a 50 year old before covid struck. Doubt I'll see that again but will be pulling on my running shoes come the winter. Having a realistic plan and enjoying the process is key for me.
Anyone able to give me a steer on accuracy across devices on Strava? Over the last few months I have regularly run with a mate who uses Strava on a Garmin watch and his Android phone, whilst I have only ever used my iphone (a number of models, currrntly 11) over the years. What we are finding is there are variances between them all - nothing new here. However, my Strava app from my iPhone is showing a variance of some 3minutes or so over 10km’s versus his Garmin and Android phone - as in he’s finished and I’ve still got just under 1km left to go. So what gives? Hate to be a Strava w*nker but this seems excessive.
Lunge - 'What's next?'...
Well, ultras, obviously!
A 50k; Highland Fling, Hardmoors, West Highland Way......
I'm just home from the annual Speyside Way race weekend, where we have 37 mile and 100k options. That's a lovely course, a really friendly event and there are some quick folks at the sharp end.
It's the Glenmore24 next weekend, Conic Canter (38m) the weekend after.
Well, ultras, obviously!
Well, I pulled out of an ultra earlier in the year due to injury so I’ll. e doing that again next year.
At the other end, I also wonder if a sub-5 min mile is possible.
Is it just .e or does time of day have a large effect? I'm doing slow 9.5km runs three times a week and usually try to fit M/W in at 6am but F has to be at 3pm Mon/we'd I'm 5:50/km but fri it's more like 6:40. Apart from running lighter due to no food and the incentive to get back quicker to avoid a Paula Radcliffe moment is there a reason?
I notice that too but the other way around. I always feel running in the morning I’ve not quite woken up and my joints feel a bit tender and totally incapable of anything explosive like sprints. Whereas if I run later on and I’ve had the day to “warm up”, my legs feel looser and I’m much more comfortable running at a quicker pace..
Maybe it’s just good old placebo doing its thing!
Is it just me or does time of day have a large effect?
I get that with riding too. If I head out in the morning I feel tired and slow, wanting to go back to sleep. Unless I've been up for a few hours. After about 11am I feel great. But it all depends ony digestive system which is pretty rubbish. Evenings are much better but can't often due to being at work all day.
Did the park run the weekend before this, and only one run last week so decided today should be a longer run at a steady pace.... But, I'd watched this video from 'House of Bounce' featuring (mostly young) runners on treadmills running "moving their legs as fast as possible". Reading comments was interesting, and one stuck in my mind said running up hill is a good way of increasing your max speed... So I set out on my run today to get PR's on two particular hills, which caused route problems as I usually only do the down on one and the up on the other, but did it, then reverted to a steadier pace and as approaching home after 6 miles decided to go for ten miles for the first time (previous best was 8.5 miles). Around 8 miles, felt a bit weak while walking over a railway crossing. Decided to keep going and felt ok at 9 so felt confident I could do ten. Unfortunately though I lost the footpath and ended up walking across ploughed tracts through fields where electrical connection/pylon installation works recently finished, round the edge of fields until I got back to the footpath which was overgrown and soaked. I was tired and very thirsty so stopped and scoffed blackberries which was just enough to keep my mood up. After just under a mile of walking/trudging along wet overgrown footpaths with intermittent spells of running, I got back onto a decent track with just under 2 miles of a jog to go. 12.3 miles. Didn't exactly enjoy it. I don't think long distance endurance running is my thing really! Had a long shower after. Ankles feel a bit delicate. I took the route to force myself to do ten miles, but it ended up being 12, and a bit over doing it.
Back when I was commuting, I would always have a super gentle ~10k in the morning, and do my sessions on the way home in the afternoon, ~19-25k ish. Now I've switched to WFH double running hasn't been practical, and everything is early morning. Not quite so easy to run fast first thing, so a decent warm-up is essential, but I've not had an issue. Lots of my friends constantly say that they would never be able to run early at pace, but I'm sure they could if they needed to.
Good work @lunge and everyone else who is getting out and doing a bit.
What next? With what you have currently achieved I would say:
Sub 18 5K
Sub 36 10K
Sub 85 half
Do the Ultra
Have a crack at a fast marathon.
I find that when I'm upping mileage for say a marathon that my running generally improves in terms of efficiency and time and I can knock out shorter distances at a better pace. Train for a marathon/ultra and see where that leaves you with the shorter distances.
In terms of the early/late effort I often think I run better later, but most pb's I've done have been set in the morning, but maybe that's just because most races are in the morning. However, I would say that you can 'train' yourself to run at certain times so doing earlier runs more often will improve your early morning running... maybe.
I was always of the "I can't run first thing in the morning" school of thought. Then a baby came along and needs must. 3 years on and it's still my standard running time. Does take a bit of warming up so always start off steady but enjoy the solitude before the honeypots of the Peak District get busy as much as anything.
Anyone else doing Longshaw Sheepdog trials fell race next weekend? First time for me but know the route well - that pull up to Carl Walk then Higgar is going to be brutal!
The question, as ever, is “what next?”.
Continue what you are doing and aim for competitiveness in your age group. I never understand the urge to go longer. Why not focus on your 1500m speed or even 800. It will pay dividends and your 5k speed will benfit.
How are people finding their Apple Watches for running?
I’ve just upgraded to a new iPhone and the Apple Watch looks pretty good. I’ve currently got a Fenix 6 so not sure if the Apple Watch would be a big step down?
I’m not running at the level some here are, I do 5k 2-3 times a week and use the Fenix for most of my cycling as well.
Am I better off sticking with what I’ve got?
My running has been completely sporadic recently, as we're in house move limbo it's impossible to structure anything - so I've just been running as and when I can, and not worrying about training.
I picked up a 'proper' running watch not long ago (after advice on here and lots of googling I ended up with a Forerunner 245 - the 55 would have been fine, but the 245 had a couple of things that made the extra worth it for me). I'm planning on using some of the Garmin Coach plans once we get moved, but for now I've just been playing around with some of the functions.
One thing that's been interesting is proper (ish, I know wrist based is not super accurate) heart rate tracking. I've found keeping my bpm under about 160 (theoretical max is 178) which I think is threshold level means I can run for a lot longer, albeit at a steadier pace. I actually set an alert for 142 (top of aerobic) but that felt way too slow. I need to read up more about HR zones, but it's interesting and I managed my first 10k in ages after planning to run 5k, and felt pretty good afterwards.
Also - I have a really sweaty head, and I keep getting sweat in my eyes. Does anyone use a cap? Is that likely to help or just make my noggin even hotter?
Also – I have a really sweaty head, and I keep getting sweat in my eyes. Does anyone use a cap? Is that likely to help or just make my noggin even hotter?
I wear one in hot weather and think it really helps with sweat. I've got a few cheap hats from Decathlon that are more than fine.
I sometimes use vaseline on the eyebrows to limit sweat in my eyes.
How are people finding their Apple Watches for running?
I’ve just upgraded to a new iPhone and the Apple Watch looks pretty good. I’ve currently got a Fenix 6 so not sure if the Apple Watch would be a big step down?
I’m not running at the level some here are, I do 5k 2-3 times a week and use the Fenix for most of my cycling as well.
Am I better off sticking with what I’ve got?
AW is a smarter smart watch that does OK for sports tracking. if you have your phone with you, it uses the GPS location from the phone anyway to conserve battery.
Fenix is a better sports watch.
Wear a cap for most of my running (or Buffs in the winter) as I hate sweat dripping in my eyes. Got a couple of Inov8 ones from various sales that cycle through washing machine. They are pretty good at wicking sweat away from your forehead and onto the brim where it evaporates (and leaves a nice salty tidemark 😉 ). I've also got a visor thingy which is ok when it gets very warm.
Surfer, the urge for a lot of folks to go longer is often about turning their runs into 'journeys'.
There's also a large social element to ultras, especially here in Scotland where it's a smaller community. Achieving distance against odds is a big draw for many folk; some races have a fairly significant DNF rate and avoiding that can be an achievement in itself, e.g. West Highland Way race.
Although spoiling that concept a bit is my attendance this coming weekend at the Glenmore24, where it's laps of a 4 mile forest circuit! Still, I'm there mostly as duty medic and as static midge fodder.
I've never actually run at an event of marathon distance or shorter, so conversely (perversely?) cannot quite understand folk who just want to go faster all the time over short distances. Faster just equals broken sooner, in my book. Both short term, with injuries and also over the long term with, er, injuries! It's all good.
Bugger been steadily raising distance (for me) was up to 10km three times a week. Not quite at the "enjoying" stage but passed the suffering swearing phase. Last Friday felt really good for first 5km then hip pain. It started mid buttock level deep a dull but enough to make dog walks uncomfortable. Through the week it's moved round to front. I'm assuming something hip flexor so stretching before and after? New shoes (pair of hoka one ones which are not old maybe 200km of running). Am resting which given new bike arrived is not fun. Anything I'm missing how long am I sitting on my arse for?
Had a very similar issue early in the year, I found holding a deep squat for a few minutes everyday really helped. I couldn't initially squat low enough without toppling backwards, I found that holding a light kettle bell in front of me helped counter balance me when holding a deep squat.
Will try that. Was also looking at short yoga for runners online.
Semi failed on my 'A' race - it was the Swiss Peaks 360 trail race, 360km up and down a lot of mountains from somewhere in the German speaking part of Switzerland, down to Lake Geneva. Somewhere around 200km my knee started playing up, and while I hung on for another 50km it was clear finishing wasn't an option.
So a bittersweet result: at >250km I've run well over twice as far as I've ever managed before, but I didn't make it to the end. I might have another go next year, although the Tor is looking like a more appealing option (getting a place in the draw permitting...).
First ever Parkrun for me today (at Heriot Watt). Apart from tripping on some roots (my own stupid fault), smashing a knee and elbow, and bruising my ribs, it was great fun.
Great friendly atmosphere. Nice bloke stopped to make sure I was okay after tumbling, and hung around at the end to make sure I finished safely which was much appreciated. Brilliant marshals too.
I get the Parkrun appeal now. Yes it's easy enough to go and do 5K on your own at any day or time, but there's something about running with lots of others that pushes you on.
Won't be my last.
Yep, def something about running with others that pushed you on! Longshaw Sheepdog Trials Fell Race for me this morning (the event even got a shout out on R6Music!) and I really pushed myself. Feeling it tonight but good to be going fast again after pretty much 18 months of just pottering with the dogs on my own.
Has anyone had any success stretching their running shoes? If so how?
I've just bought some Hoka Rincons and finding then ever so slightly narrow in the toe box, I don't think going up a size will help either.
@mogrim, 250km is simply insane, massive respect, can't wrap my head around people covering such distances.
I didn’t like the Apple Watch for running - the touch screen isn’t tactile enough so you can’t do laps and start/stop without looking which is terrible in races or intervals. I’ve had a garmin 245 for 2 years now and it is superb, including the battery. Looking at a 945 for some extra features and applaud Garmin for sticking with buttons.
Heart rate straps are much better than wrist, although you do need to wet them on the contact point or the readings are erratic until you sweat. More important in winter.
I use heart rate zones a lot but can do a lot by feel now. Zone 2 will feel really slow until your body adjusts, and then you can run at a faster pace for a given effort.
Always wear a cap - keeps out the sweat, keeps the sun off my exposed scalp and keeps my head up as I can’t see forward if I look at the floor. Bonus.
250km is incredible! Well done. I’ve got a 62km in two weeks and did a 44km warm up yesterday around Headley Heath. 750m of climbing so my legs feel it, but they aren’t too bad, which is a nice surprise. Altra Timp 3 trail shoes are simple awesome! They feel as they are designed for my feet. Kept the heart rate as low as I could and averaged 148, top of zone 2, for the whole run/walk so happy with that. 6:40/km moving, around 7:00/km with rest stops.
Did my first mile race the other week. I said 6:10 but someone put me in the “faster” race and I came in third with a 5:50. Started at the back and picked them off one by one and managed to out sprint someone at the end. A nice feeling. Did a relay after that and got a 1:07 400m which is a Pb. The fast stuff is really good fun, but…
I was away at a festival for 4 days and came back straight into a 7k warm up then 30 mins of long hill reps. By ‘eck my legs were shredded and thought I’d done myself a mischief with some quite painful calf muscles and ankles. I managed a recovery on the Wednesday but they hadn’t recovered until the long run on Saturday. Luckily, no lasting damage and I think that is down to running for a couple of years and being more resilient. I broke my own rule of maxing out at 25 min hard intervals. You’ve got to look after an old body. I shall learn from the experience.
Keep at it all! I feel a parkrun PB is in me but I do a hard 5k exactly a week before a 62km ultra?
@mogrim, 250km is simply insane, massive respect, can’t wrap my head around people covering such distances.
Sister in law finished second lady yesterday in the Kerry Way ultra, about 200km off road. Think it took her about 33 hours.
Just starting week six of the 5k plan using Garmin Coach on my watch. It’s that frustrating time now where I feel like I could run further than the planned sessions but I just know it’ll end in injury.
Some of the runs others have mentioned above sound epic!
Last big week of training before Manchester this week and, in what some would see as bad planning, I have 2 races planned in 1 week (3 if you include parkrun...).
Friday - 5k track league, I've even bought some new spikes!
Saturday - Long run with parkrun in the middle, 8 miles up, parkrun, 8 miles home.
Sunday - Stafford half which'll also be a final check on kit and prep for the marathon to make sure everything works as it should.
Genuinely excited, though I could do with shaking the last of this cold by Wednesday!
Anyone got any interesting plans over the coming weeks?
I'm coming to the end of a fortnight of complete rest. The knee injury I picked up in Switzerland seems to be sorting itself out, so the rest is clearly justified. And I'm looking forward to getting back out there which is another positive sign 🙂
So that's about the extent of my plans. Only other thing of vague interest is my club's trail race which is coming up on Sunday the 26th. I'll be helping out, which means marking part of the course on Friday, then running the entire 26km course very early on Sunday morning before the race starts to make sure all the markers are still in place.
Sounds like a busy time @lunge. Good luck with it all.
I’ve got a 62km trail run on Saturday, a trail half the week after then Newport marathon on 24th October. Taking it easy this week and trying to taper.
I know quite a few who did the Brighton marathon and really struggled after about mile 16. Might have been the heat.
Parkrun is great isn’t it? I’ve got my ideal routine now. Run 4km there which is slightly uphill so I take it easy. Warm up is 1 min at race pace - about 3:55-4:00/km, recover, 2 x 100m at 3:00/km. Doing it that way makes the last bit of running fast and when then race starts it doesn’t feel too quick and I can settle quickly into a rhythm. Run home after to cool down.
I usually approach the 5k as an ordeal of pain to be endured. This week, after reading some books and wanting to progress, I relaxed, smiled, concentrated on form, head up, shoulders relaxed, 180 steps per minute, breathing properly and just went out and enjoyed it as it’s such a great thing to be able to do. I’m sure it hurt, but I really didn’t feel it that much which is a revelation. Got a Pb of 19:30, consistent splits and 28 out of 662, which is a 34 second improvement from a few weeks back. Well chuffed.
I feel like I am getting the hang of this, a bit. Still lots to learn.
parkrun is brilliant.
I love that those so inclined can go and have a proper thrash, whilst others just have a plod round and a chat.
The only negative is that whenever I volunteer the first finisher always posts a time I reckon I could beat, but when I run the fast guys are always there! 70 odd runs and still not sneaked a top 3.
Chatsworth 10k for me yesterday. I've been struggling with an obnoxious IT band for a bit. Came on out of no where but saw physio last week and she worked some magic - no pain yesterday 🙂 102nd out of 1000 entrants and ran a 48:40 which I was quite chuffed with considering it's 5k up (170m of climbing) then 5k down and the down was pretty steep in places so you couldn't just let it go. Perfect for aggravating my IT band but all was good.
Not really any other races for me but I want to try and get an entry for the Sheffield Percy Pud 10k in December and really, really want to go sub-45. I've managed 45:15 a couple of times during lockdown but never managed sub-45 🙁
Coming back from 12 weeks of nothing after my bike accident where I fractured my back. Been doing a few 3 mile runs, did a 7 miler and so far so good other than sore back afterwards. Back has healed, just the tissue damage causing the ache. Just trying to get consistency going again, not looking forward to the nights drawing in!
Been a lack of shoe talk for a while! Made use of the August bank holiday offers, bought Reebok Floatride Energy 3 for £50, nice and comfy for longer run. Also Adidas Adizero Adios 6 for quciker runs 72 quid, felt really strange underfoot, may need to adjust my footstrike, wait and see.
Been a lack of shoe talk for a while!
Always happy to talk on this subject, but have limited my purchasing over the last few months. The 2 to comment on are:
Nike Pegasus 38. A huge improvement over the 37, the upper just fits better, nothing more than that. It does run hot though, and I'm still not sure it's as good as the 36.
Adidas SL2. I commented on these a month or 3 back, but worth mentioning again. Hell of a shoe for very little money, great for tempo runs if you like a firmer shoe.
Debating wither a Puma Liberate Nitro or an Adios 6 next.
Edit, and if anyone has any Nike Streak 7's in a size 12 sat around doing nothing then hit me up. They are now officially impossible to get hold of!
Still on the comeback trail here (achilles injury). Managed 9min mile pace on a 2.6 mile run with no discomfort (I was doing 8.min 30sec on 10 mile runs in July). Frustrating to be so slow (and so sore the day after) compared to just a few months ago (and I couldn't run GNR which I was meant to be doing yesterday). Still - I am running again!
Thought I'd stick an update on here - over the Bank Holiday weekend I had three brilliant days out in the hills running the Silva Great Lakeland 3-Day with a mate.
We opted to do 'Cafe Course', the shortest of the four courses (Cafe, Wainwright Short, Wainwright Long, Expert), but still rounded out at over 70km with close to 4,000m of ascent over the three days. Would have been a few km less if we hadn't made a minor nav whoopsie on the first day, but hey, at least it bagged me a trig pillar I hadn't been to before. We worked on standard Ultra pacing - hiked on the ups, jogged what we could on the flat, and jogged or ran whatever we could on the downs. For me it was a shakeout for kit and legs ahead of Lakes in a Day, and my running mate was still recovering and rebuilding strength after tearing his calf back in Feb, so there was no intention of flattening ourselves.
Day one - 26.1km, 1,501m ascent, 6:26 - Silver Howe, Helm Crag, (High Raise - whoops), Ullscarf, Grange Fell, Rosthwaite.
Day two - 25.4km, 1,491m ascent, 6:01 - Castle Crag, Dale Head, Buttermere, Warnscale Bottom, Honister, Rosthwaite.
Day three - 21.7km, 924m ascent, 4:15 - Langstrath, Stake Pass, Dungeon Ghyll, Lingmoor, Chapel Stile.
Could have gone a little faster if we hadn't followed the unwritten rule of Cafe Course and had a coffee stop each day, but amusingly we still somehow ended up 4th and 5th overall on the course - you can step up or down but only get a ranking if you run the same class each day. 4th and 5th out of 65-ish still wasn't too shabby, given how seriously we'd taken the 'Cafe' part...
Did my first Great North Run yesterday and my 2nd half marathon race.
Had been running every day between Christmas and mid July mostly 5km each day , then got a tender spot inside the rear of my left foot. So had a break for a 12 day 1000 mile England and Wales bike packing trip.
After my holiday Foot was getting better but still tender so took it easy for another week, got some new shoes , then ran some 5km runs then built up . 8km, 5km km 10 km ,5km, 15km , 21.1 km with the longest run 2 weeks before the 12th, when I did a completely flat mock race in 2h ours. Then ran a mixture of 5km and 10 km runs.
Had a race plan in my head adjusting for the hills on the GNR to do it in 2 hours, but on the day my legs felt good and the down hill from the start to the Tyne Bridge got me warmed up quickly, and running faster than my target down hill pace. I then felt good on the 1st hill and was faster than my target for the flat, so decided to keep that up. This continued to the turn ( this year race ended in Newcastle). Did slow a bit on the slope back up to Newcastle from the Tyne and in last couple of my upper left leg started to ache a bit.
Very pleased to finish in 1:54:30 well inside my target time, particularly as a month ago I though that I mighty not be able to run.
Having lived previously in Gosforth and ran a lot on Town Moor, it was great to run through the city centre and then finish next to the moor and then walk back up to Gosforth high street, with some of the guys I used to run with when I lived in Gosforth.
I think the extended start interval was good, as it was not too crowded on the road.
@lunge - I love my Streak 7s, but they are on over 400km now😟 fantastic shoe. Think the Zoom Rival Fly might be a potential replacement, will have to wait til payday though.
So going to try keep up with this thread, always dipped in and out but never kept up.
Been running a lot this year, really enjoying it. Ran the goggins 4x4x48 over bank holiday and absolutely loved it! The mental battle was weirdly enjoyable! Had some hip pain about half way through but it all came good in the end. Raised some money for mind as well which was good.
Been trying to rest the last couple weeks, ran a 5k a week after 4x4x48 and right knee felt bad, ran 4K last night and it felt better so going to take it slow for a week with lots of stretching. Time to rejoin a gym and get stronger I think!
I’m also weirdly fascinated by the world of ultras now! I might have booked an ultra for next September. Expect all the training plan questions!
First parkrun in a long while planned for the weekend! That's likely to be a bit of a struggle, I've only jogged a few 5ks in the last few months. Will set a benchmark for winter improvement though....