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I only run on the beach or trails and avoid pavement or roads
I'd change that, quick smart. There's a lot of misinformation about running on asphalt, but it's generally flat and has a predictable landing.
The same cannot be said for sand and mud.
I enjoy running on trails and beach, but 90% of my running is on the road.
@marin, there is much debate about calf sleeves as to if they make a difference or if they're snake oil.
I started using them on long runs after some calf issues. I think they help, but there is a real chance that it's all in my head. I do find them useful in the cold to help warm the muscles up. You can pick a pair up at Decathlon for £15 so you can try them for not much outlay, https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/compression-running-sleeves/_/R-p-308493
I truth though, you likely need to work on the cuase of the issue. Calf raises and lowers on a step along with lots of stretching seem to have fixed my ongoing niggle.
Thanks lunge I do lots of stretching but I'll give them a go and cross my fingers as I do lots of stretching. Physical job and lifestyle trying to prolong both.
Nobeer I stopped running road as it was giving my hips loads of grief. The beach is nicer just swap the issue to my calf instead!
I've never used calf-sleeves, but I have a couple of pairs of Injinji knee-length toe socks. I found that the toe socks prevent blisters on my toes on ultras / long training runs particularly if wearing oversize footwear for really cold conditions. It's nice to have the longer socks as extra protection for lower legs when running when it's cold and windy.
Shoe wise, I was waiting to see if I could get some new Salomon trail shoes with a discount, as my old ones had worn out. Picked-up some Scott Supertrac Gore-Tex shoes from Sportsshoes instead and pretty pleased with how they perform. I mainly run offroad, from soft mud, forest tracks covered in brash and mountain tracks so wanted good grip, but some degree of cushioning against stones and sticks etc. Upper is reassuringly secure (unlike some 'trail' shoes where the whole shoe twists around your foot) and pretty good grip - no slipping on the descents particularly.
Fancy pants trainers question - do any of these new, “fast”, carbon midsole shoes have removable / replaceable footbed in them? Just got a pair of the Next% Tempo to try and they’ve got a flat, fixed insole which I know will cripple my high arches. I run in high arch support footbeds in all my shoes and no longer suffer plantar fasciitis.
None of the Nike shoes do @dashed.
I have a feeling the Saucony Endorphin range have a removable insole.
My milers have arrived and dear God; I may put them on the mantle to keep my grandson away from the fire. In keeping with 2020 I am currently borked but looking forward to trying them.
My milers have arrived and dear God; I may put them on the mantle to keep my grandson away from the fire.
Hahaha, the Nike designers definitely had a day off for them didn’t they?
Terra Kigers arrived today.
Feel like a racing flat on the foot. There's not much drop at all and not much cushioning either.
Upper seems quite study, good toe protection and quite a low heel too which I like.
Outsole is nicely aggressive, rubber feels sticky and will easily handle the kind of trails I run. It's much more so than the Pegasus Trail which feels like a more all round shoe.
Related, I've also found out that Nike offer a no questions 30 day (60 at the moment due to Covid/Xmas) return policy. I've exchanged messages with them and they've told me that even if you've run in them and they're covered in mud they'll still honour it. Useful to know.
Still making slow progress through the None-to-run program, up to 1 minute running and 1.5 minute recovery at the moment.
It's actually really refreshing having no ambitions or pride regarding running as I can be that guy plodding about in old hillwalking gear and knackered shoes, being put to shame by overweight 50 year old women (and fair play to them, that's not a criticism), but I can still get home really pleased with myself and feeling like I've had a good workout.
I actually thought I'd be a bit faster/stronger runner than I appear to be, I used to put in some big days in the mountains hiking over multiple tops with camping gear on my back, and I'm reasonably fit on the bike, so I thought the two might combine well for running, but no 😀
At least the ITB thing seems to be controllable, lots of side plank, clams and lateral band walks and/or glute bridges with a band on the knees.
My masseuse also showed me the perfect stretch for the TFL muscle which as well all know is the actual source of IT band issues 😉
Happy newbie so far anyway, let's see if I can build up to actually running a whole 4k by the new year when I'll maybe treat myself to some new shoes...
Guid stuff, cracking day for it. Escaped the laptop for a lovely winter lunchtime 5 miles there, grand.
@lunge - the TKs are 4mm drop I think. They do feel fast and sort of encourage you to push on.
My first pair of TK5's have worn away so much of the sole on the fore foot they are like a racing flat although that doesn't help much in the current slopfest. I think that's partly due to me wearing them loads in the first lockdown as I find them really comfy.
Mine are here and can echo what you said.
Reminded me of an astro turf football boot under foot. In a good way, close to the ground, just enough cushion, and plenty of grip. always liked them for running fast.
But, the upper is a bit short of volume for me, I've wide feet and high insteps, and they're a bit narrow and a bit too flat. Probably going back , but that's cos of my funny feet shape
😭
Unless I wear them round the house for a few days and hope they stretch.
I was glad of the proper mapping on my Garmin this morning as I got disorientated in the fog on Wimbledon Common 😮 Fog is probably even worse in the dark using a head torch as you only really get a little illuminated bubble. Fortunate that it was only a little inadvertent loop through flat woodland rather than anything with more serious consequences.
I've ramped my mileage back up to what was typical for my last couple of marathons, however previously most of those miles were split over 2 commuting runs a day, which are much easier to recover from. I've had to be quite careful now the're virtually all fairly long singles to ensure that the majority are paced nice and easy, and that the hard sessions are well spaced apart. The legs seem to be adapting fairly well to over 2 hours every morning though, even if the 4:20am alarm does mean a bit of a low spell mid-morning...
@turboferret, how many miles are you doing per week? 2 hours every morning at your pace would seem to suggest "lots".
I put in the 100 days exercise challenge thread, but it was stunning running conditions last night, clear sky, no wind and ice cold.
Started out planning a gentle 8 mile run and then bumped into a club mate a mile in so the easy 8 turned into one of the fastest 10 milers I’ve ever run .What’s even better is that it felt effortless.
Absolutely buzzing after that one.
Brilliant Lunge, it's awesome when that happens, feels as if you could run all night.
@lunge I've been aiming for 100 miles a week recently, although not totally beholden to that number. If I'm not feeling it I'll not be hugely concerned about skipping a run, and if I've got a race at the weekend I'll back off a bit during the week to be fresh. I know that this has produced good results in the past without breaking me, so seemed a good target. Most of my runs have been a bit longer this week and I haven't had a day off, so exceeded my 100 miles by a bit
Had I realised I was going to be quite so close to a nice round number I would have run another 340m! This was my biggest week since Feb 2019 where I his 202km once. Total hours running this week was just shy of 15 hours, at a mixture of paces, averaging at 4:30 mins/km, which is much slower than I used to do, I'd normally be about 4:00/km, I've learned to slow down on my slow runs
That's huge TF, huge!
I'm doing between 65 and 70 per week at the moment and that feels more than enough. Slow runs (well, all my runs are slow compared to TF...) are a challenge for me. I have a pace I naturally run at and whilst it's easy enough to up the effort to go quicker, it's much harder to go slow. I have to really focus on keeping the pace down. In truth, I also find it seriously boring.
Oaft.
Last week was the first in ages I've topped my weekly target of 25 miles as well, sounds pathetic now!
@lunge 65-70 is decent and enough for most, I'd say the majority of my fast clubmates clock up under 80 miles a week most of the time. I'm not sure my 4:20 am starts and 100 miles are sustainable long-term, and they may actually be detrimental to my overall performance, time will tell...
I was terrible at slow running for ages, and as you say, it's boring and feels like you take an absolute age to get anywhere. I would suggest that you keep plugging away though, there is a pretty well regarded school of thought which says that easy runs should be really easy, hard runs should be super hard. Stuff in the middle is of minimal benefit, it gets you tired but without increasing performance. The biggest improvement in my results has been not just from increasing volume but adoption a more polarised training philosophy.
@Nobeerinthefridge well done for topping your target 🙂 The last thing I want to do is make anyone feel pathetic, everyone has a different amount invested in running and varying goals. My wife probably thinks that I prioritise running above too many other things, so it's a question of keeping things in perspective. Something I heard on a podcast recently which rang true was
'comparison is the thief of joy'
While it's nice to see what others are doing, it's very easy to compare and feel inadequate 😮
Aye, I know that tf, was just a flippant remark mon ami!
Suoerb though, great going.
I find slow running a lot easier by listening to a podcast, lets me switch off from my run a little, and also run somewhere new, new stuff to look at works too.
Well I finally seem to have got back into it. Its has coincided with getting a newb into mountainbiking round glentress.
Not putting any form of plan in place, just enjoying the running and trying a bit more offroad hills which is handy living in peebles!
Just seen Pete Bland has passed away, sad news, a true legend of the sport. 😔
Bugger! A really nice chap.
Aye, saw Pete passed away from Covid yesterday. Not sure how old he was but sad news.
Think I posted this earlier in the thread but my humble target (very humble compared to some on this thread!!) was 1,00km this year. I did about 650 last year so seemed like a decent number to aim for. It looked like a shoe-in in Oct when I only had about 80kms to go. Then I got Covid. Then my IT band decided to play up out of nowhere and needed 3 weeks rest. And I'm going for a double hernia op on Monday.
Currently got 42.5km to go but a dodgy IT band that if I push too hard will mean I need to rest it for a week. So the plan is to keep nibbling away at it the rest of this week at about 6km a day and hopefully not leave myself too much to squeeze in between Christmas and NY - which is when I'm likely to be able to run again.
I suspect that if I manage it then it'll be a NYE run that tips me over the 1000k!!
Awesome work @dashed. If you're anything like me if the amount you have left on NYE is anything even vaguely achievable you'll do it irrelevant of the pain!
I should hit my revised yearly goal next week (I hit the first earlier in the year), the stretch goal would mean 4 weeks of 100+ mile weeks and I'm not TurboFerret so that seems unlikely!
@dashed - I got ITBS when I upped my mileage too quickly when training for my Bob Graham, from memory I went from 40 miles per week to around 60 in less than a month. It took about two months to get back running and then I limited things to 25-30 miles per week.
100 miles per week is an average of over a half marathon a day! TF - I suspect your lack of rest days will come back to haunt you.
Managed 1000 miles the last couple of years, fancied 1500 this year, but tbh I lost motivation a few times. I'll make over 800, but only due to getting my groove back the last couple of weeks.
In terms of the high mileage that TF is knocking out, I think once your body has adapted to that sort of mileage, even if you do drop back down, it's easy enough to pick it back up to the higher level again without too many problems. The body will remember and reset.
I've been doing on average 50-60 miles a week this year. It was more in Jan - Mar as I was building up to London, but when that got canned it came down to a normal level. I have thrown in a few weeks up to 85ish miles, but it's mainly guesswork as I don't wear a watch or measuring device. I just have a rough idea how far I've run and can tot up a total for the week. Over the year though I've no idea.
On another note, has anyone done Richmond half at Kew gardens?
It's a rescheduled masters event I missed in March this year (Fleet) which is now September 2021 at Richmond.
In terms of the high mileage that TF is knocking out, I think once your body has adapted to that sort of mileage, even if you do drop back down, it’s easy enough to pick it back up to the higher level again without too many problems. The body will remember and reset.
I can imagine that, I definitely feel I run better the more I run, the idea of a long taper before an event would worry me, I'd much rather just slow up and shorten the runs down a few days before.
My body definitely adapts to my, albeit low, mileage. It's much better if I keep it constant at about 20 miles a week. Everything seems to keep ticking along nicely with no injuries and I can flex my mileage around that. I've been up to 50 miles a week at one point during lockdown with no issues, but if I drop back or have a couple of weeks off then I've got to be really careful picking it back up again or I end up with niggles. It pisses me right off as mates can do nowt for a month and then crack out a 15 miler. I'd definitely hurt something if I did that!
No question the body gets used to the work.
I'm best at current levels, 60 or 70 miles per week. More than that and I feel constantly fatigued, less and I feel sluggish. That may be self fulfilling though.
I also think my body likes it when I do a mix of runs. Some on and some off road, some flat, some lumpy, etc.
I always found 60-70 worked for me. It was all at a decent speed though none of it under 7 min milling other than some track warm ups. More than that and I found it difficult to repeat week after week but I think if I had been more rigorous around rest and diet I could have managed more but I think the benefits trail off a bit after around 70. If you are full time etc then the benefits are worth it and I know some runners who have done well off 100+
Its rare to find good standard 5-10k runners doing much less than than around 70 (unless they are doing less but very high quality) even Ovett did around 100mpw. Coe claimed to do less but many think he left out slower miles.
hello all 🙂 I need a real shop to try on stuff because I've been running in cheap shoes but I have no clue what will fit me. Does anyone have a recommendation for a manchester shoe shop ?
Are you purely running when you're doing 60-70 mile weeks or are you also fitting in riding?
How do you structure it? Consistent runs or a long run that accounts for a good portion of that?
The biggest month I've done is 165km (mainly 5-10km with one longer run a week), with some commute rides on top. I can't see how you can fit in more than that (due to time and recovery) whilst doing any proper riding or gym work.
@edhornby - if you sign up to the Nike Club (just an email address required) then free returns. Order a few and send back what you don't need? Same for Sportshoes.com I think.
Not Manchester but there's Running Bear in Alderley Edge who do gait analysis.
There used to be a running shop on Deansgate too which seemed quite good. Runner's Need I think?
Are you purely running when you’re doing 60-70 mile weeks or are you also fitting in riding?
How do you structure it? Consistent runs or a long run that accounts for a good portion of that?
Riding never formed any part of my training and I cant actually recall doing any, I was running pretty much every day and sometimes twice. To run well it is very simple, you only need a handful of components. It was a few year ago but I suppose it was as follows (give or take)
Mon: maybe lunchtime run, only 4 miles but it was pretty hard as I was pushed for time. pm run home from work 12 miles
Tue: track, cant remember the sessions although I did like shortish intervals with a long recovery say 24:x400 with 1 min.
Wed: maybe just 1 run up to 6 ish miles or so
Thur: as Monday
Fri: as Wednesday
Sat: race or anything up to around 10 miles, often did 2 x 5
Sun: Seldom did long runs during this period so around 12, sometimes more.
Reflecting on it I made a few mistakes (probably running almost all of my miles a bit too quick, my runs home were often under 70 mins) although the Track sessions probably added a great deal and I certainly never got the results I should have due to stupid injuries and overtraining at the wrong times and avoiding racing which on reflection meant my times are not reflective. I was very mediocre and that training would be enough for somebody running much quicker than I did.
Up and Running, I'd forgotten about that one cheers MrSheen 🙂
Also thanks Dashed - one to remember next time when I know what shapes fit my feet, at the moment I don't know whether I need wide or slim fittings or whether a neutral fit is the right one (I suspect it is though...)
Enjoying the thread and some interesting stories.
I’ve got some pain. There’s always some pain, but this has got me thinking. 5 minutes into a run I’m fine and do an hour or two - 11k last night, trail half at weekend.
After I cool down my lower legs and right inner ankle are really painful. The morning after it’s hard to climb stairs and come down. Walking is painful but after a few mins I’m ok.
Am I just old and approaching decredidity or should I get it checked? Stress fractures spring to mind.
It's just recovery aches and pains, I wouldn't worry about it. Again, it's something I notice with increased running, the more I run, the less of that kind of stuff I get.
I think it depends on how often you are running and how much of a break you have between runs.
When I'm training for a marathon I get all manner of niggles over and above what I would normally get. I think its the body adapting to the new stresses being placed upon it. I don't stop unless its serious and keep pushing through the plan (I don't have a set plan, its just a case of more miles, more hills, more speed increasing over my build up period). When I get to a couple of weeks out from the marathon, when the peak weeks are behind and it's into the taper (I don't aggressively taper, mainly dial back the intensity a little bit but don't drop the mileage too much) everything seems to settle down and the niggles disappear. It's then just a case of maintaining the calm up to the event.
Talking about mileage, it's taken me about 4 years to build up to regularly topping 100 miles a week, pretty sure I'd be more broken had I done this more rapidly. My training at the moment is certainly sub optimal, I'd be much better doing double runs for recovery. Unfortunately I can't really fit those practically into family life without being utterly selfish, and running isn't that high up my priority list!
TSS is a valuable score to determine the overall impact on recovery, if you do all of your running really easily you could handle loads more than hard stuff on the track, as extreme examples. This isn't infallible though - the other day my HR strap decided it wasn't going to connect to my watch, so it was using the useless optical sensor. It reckoned that I had an average HR of 172 for 2 1/4 hours. Given that's 4 bpm higher than my recent fast 5k, that would have been an absolute monster effort, and as a result told me that I needed 3 1/2 days recovery 😀
Currently sat in hospital waiting to be wheeled down to theatre for a double hernia op. But smug that I managed to bash off my final few Kms last week to mean I’ve made my goal of 1,000km this year. 60kms last week though - that’s a big week for me but managed to keep my niggling IT band issue at bay!