What the hell has the justice system gone mad? backdating the sentence to that of a minor when the murder was committed.
Shame the death sentance was not in force when the murder was committed
Rant over
What the hell has the justice system gone mad? backdating the sentence to that of a minor when the murder was committed.
Why is that mad?
That's just how the system works, those were just about the maximum sentences available to the judge.
I was involved in a fairly recent case where a bunch of teenagers kicked a homeless man to death, they were back on the streets a little over two years after incarceration. It doesn't seem right, but that's how it is.
I never cease to be saddened by the inability of adults to understand sentencing. Crimes, convictions and proportionate sentencing are in the news and media daily, and yet every sentence seems to come as some sort of hideous surprise.
They are held At Her Majesty's Pleasure. The terms are the shortest they can serve, not the usual longest possible time inside.
Just remember that both of the convicted men can be detained indefinitely. The sentences that they have been given are the minimum that have to serve before they can be considered for parole. In addition they are released under licence which means that they can be recalled back to prison at any time and for any reason.
The sentences given are at the upper end of comparable murders.
Sorry if I appear to be a bit dumb but murder should be life as in they leave prison in a box.
How would you feel as a parent?????
saladdodger - Member
Shame the death sentance was not in force when the murder was committed
This, together with the OP's failure to listen to the justification for the sentencing, tells us all we need to know.
He'll be wondering why they get out in 7 years next...
14 years seems like a LOOOOng old time to me... cripes i'd be a pensioner when i got out!!
Regarding maccruiskeen's post, I agree.
This country seems to be divided beyween those that imagine they're living in some sort of totalitarian police state and those that think it's an ultra-permissive liberal playground.
In reality, we're somewhere slap bang in the middle of those.
So you kill someone when you are a minor, get away with it for a few years, then when you get caught get a minors sentence even though you are no longer a minor. Seems a bit wrong if you ask me.
skywalker - Member
So you kill someone when you are a minor, get away with it for a few years, then when you get caught get a minors sentence. Seems a bit wrong if you ask me.
Why?
They have to take the youth and immaturity of the defendants into account.
And if they'd been done at the time they would still have been tried as minors.
How would you feel as a parent?????
It's why we leave arresting, charging, trials and most importantly, sentencing to the cold objectivity of others. It must hurt like hell sometimes for some people, but I wouldn't have it any other way. These two are in for a shitty time inside. And the other three must be shitting themselves now too.
[i]These two are in for a shitty time inside.[/i]
Really. Hows that then?
fair comment Deadlydarcy
Very well put
What DD said.
Also highly relevant to the gun ownership thread.
Hasn't Norris already had a good hiding inside before the trial, by some "Asian crew"? Or so the red tops called them!?
These two are in for a shitty time inside.
Surely our super professional prison staff wouldn't let that happen, would they?
Already has, hasn't it??
Be lovely if they put them in a wing populated exclusively by big lads from the Nation of Islam. Acourt brothers next.
To toggle out of DailyWail mode, there was a great vox pop this morning on R4, opining that this case is instructive because if the system fails to straightforwardly charge, prosecute and sentence such clear, straightforward and universally-agreed-to-be-despicable acts of racially-motivated violence, there's little chance of the system operating effectively in instances of more subtle racism.
Not right if they got worse than other racist murderers inside, due to the publicity, IMO.
So you kill someone when you are a minor, get away with it for a few years, then when you get caught get a minors sentence even though you are no longer a minor. Seems a bit wrong if you ask me.
You'll have to explain your view to me as it seems entirely right IMO.
Cynic_al they will do at least the 14 years,murder sentences are a tarrif and not subject to the half in custody half on licence.
It is a well established principal that offenders are sentenced in accordance with their age at the time of offending, not their age at sentence.
esselgruntfuttock - Member
These two are in for a shitty time inside.Really. Hows that then?
Well, they'll be put 'on the numbers', Rule 45 (or Rule 43, I forget which, but they're both the same, one replaced the other) and housed on a segregation wing with 'vulnerable' prisoners...ex-criminal justice types, sex offenders etc
don simon - Member
Surely our super professional prison staff wouldn't let that happen, would they?
Internet snarkiness aside, prison officers are like any other profession. Some are exceptional, some are woeful and the majority somewhere inbetween. However, 2 prison officers to 80 prisoners is not uncommon and if someone wants to deliver a bashing, it can be pretty difficult to prevent it.
I was being sarcastic, although reading it again it didn't come out that way at all.
saladdodger - Member
Sorry if I appear to be a bit dumb but murder should be life as in they leave prison in a box.
a BIT dumb. Some incredible naivity on this thread. 🙄
Leaving prison in a box would be an audacious escape 😉
They wont be put on fraggle rock they will I'm sure be in with the general populace and I for one would not want to be a self confessed racist in any prison in the south of the UK.
Some are exceptional, some are woeful and the majority somewhere inbetween.
I know, but some folks would try to have us believe otherwise and that exceptional is the norm. 😉
when they've served their tarrif they'll then need to convince the parole board that they're reformed individuals who don't pose a threat to society.
Bit difficult if they are still denying any involvement...
I reckon we've got a few years of them wasting tax payers money on appeals first...
I think the thing that angers many about the sentence being based on the fact that they were minors when they committed the crime is that for many years as adults they have continued to deny any responsibility for their actions and continued the suffering of his family.
The Lawrence family have given up 18 years of their lives to get this far and no doubt will give up more years still in the pursuit of justice for the other members of the gang. I can see how hard it must be to realise that the guilty may give up less.
I'd like to think that the 2 now inside will have it made known to them that they could be kept till they die if they don't come forward with the names of the rest of the gang. may not be possible or legal but it would be worth planting the idea in their minds.
I think that would be against the HRA...and while they would have got lower sentencing for an early admission, they are allowed to plead innocent...the delays were otherwise the fault of the Met.
essel, I just assumed that with the negative publicity and the fact that they're now "known" racists that they'd be in for a hard time - I could be talking out my arse of course - you'd obviously know better. I think sometimes we tend to think that prison is full of honourable thieves who deliver a bashing to proper scum - but I think maybe I'm watching too much tv. 🙂
To be honest, I just hope the other three aren't getting a wink of sleep waiting for the knock on the door to tell them that they're up next.
should be life as in they leave prison in a box.
you're confusing a sentence with a jail term. When you leave prison the sentence isn't necessarily over. See why this is so depressing? its the absolute basics.
When I'm in charge ,anyone found guilty of serious violent crime will provide several hundred kw of energy from their incineration.
All others imprisoned ,will power the prison like hamsters on a wheel. Any spare will get pumped back into the grid.
It'll be ugly but it sure will be effective and green.
Prison will be hell, and all inmates will get the option for total freedom from chores by direct transfer to the furnace.
Culling is the only way to ensure the positive survival of our race.
Harsh, but I think very fair.
When I'm in charge ,anyone found guilty of serious violent crime will provide several hundred kw of energy from their incineration.All others imprisoned ,will power the prison like hamsters on a wheel. Any spare will get pumped back into the grid.
It'll be ugly but it sure will be effective and green.
Prison will be hell, and all inmates will get the option for total freedom from chores by direct transfer to the furnace.
Culling is the only way to ensure the positive survival of our race.
Harsh, but I think very fair.
You got my vote
I was going to vote for Jeremy Clarkson for Prime Minister
Sharki would you settle for the deputy job 😉
Neither of you get my vote, that's the ultimate in small-mindedness IMO.
SD to much responsiblity.
I'll settle for minister of human improvement! 😈
You got my vote
Which tells us all need to know about you I suspect
I think the thing that angers many about the sentence being based on the fact that they were minors when they committed the crime is that for many years as adults they have continued to deny any responsibility for their actions and continued the suffering of his family.The Lawrence family have given up 18 years of their lives to get this far and no doubt will give up more years still in the pursuit of justice for the other members of the gang. I can see how hard it must be to realise that the guilty may give up less.
I'd like to think that the 2 now inside will have it made known to them that they could be kept till they die if they don't come forward with the names of the rest of the gang. may not be possible or legal but it would be worth planting the idea in their minds.
Best thing said on this post by far - spot on! Not saying some other comments aren't right either gents.
DD is right we need objective and cold rational sentencing tbh if they had done this to my lad I think it would be me on trial not them.
They were kids when they did it and that is the minimum they will serve ..it seems unlikely they will fess up and be remorseful so it is unlikely they will be approved
The thing nobody has mentioned is people get murdered every day, especially this christmas and new year it seemed to be endemic.
Because the Stephen Lawrence murder sold papers, and was worthy of tick box journalism, it got attention, a lot of murders dont.
Its so very sad for the lawrence family, but ever so sad for other people whjo have had their kids murdered, for their religion, sexuality,honour killing, just in anger, or being in the wrong place .
Lets not forget all these other families who didnt get the media attention.
agreed
Agreed project.
It's tragic that it's taken 18 years for Justice, but it's well established that THIS WAS THE FAULT OF THE MET.
and probably those at fault still have nice jobs and pensions.
"Sorry if I appear to be a bit dumb but murder should be life as in they leave prison in a box.
How would you feel as a parent????? "
Here is a good idea to measure your development in life.
Cut and paste everything you type in this thread into a text file and save it away somewhere. Look at it again when you are a grown up. If you realise that you were an ignorant child who simple didn't know better... then you have done well. If not... then this country really is screwed after all.
You are a large part of the reason why modern democracy isn't doing as well as we all hoped! 🙂
"Because the Stephen Lawrence murder sold papers, and was worthy of tick box journalism, it got attention, a lot of murders dont."
Fishes swimming at the top of the pond begging their masters for food, rather like the opening poster of this topic, are exactly why the tabloids have the influence they do.
Can he really find NOTHING at all in the world today that is a bit more worthy of a 'GRRRRRR'?
No. He just plays with the toy put in front of him like a good kitty!
Me thinkxs someone has lost the plot.
Razor