[Closed] The polarisation of our society summed up in one article

Pity he has to come back.

osbornes ability to irritate aside id say that were not as polarised as them yanks

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/09/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-rightwing-rhetoric

Polarised? You mean in the way that some folk have less money than others?

Is this something specific to "our" society then? I thought it was fairly generic.

Straight from the most biased newspaper in the land.......

Not really druid. Just the lack of any kind of common understanding on either side. I just found it pretty depressing reading.

Says it all about our society. It reminded me of another Withnail Quote:

"Shat on by Tories. Scooped up by Labour"

Rachel Johnson is the sister of Boris ...

there seem to be only two possible reasons he could have decided to take his winter hols in the ritziest ski resort in Europe: 1. he's not very bright, or 2. he really doesn't give a shit about the little people, does he? My suspicion is that it is both.

Seems about right. Its political naivety on a huge scale - but thats no suprise from Osbourne. Cameron would not have done this I doubt.

He's improving his game. Last time his ritzy holidays were in the news he was tittle-tattling about what Lord Mandelson had said over dinner about the Prime Minister, which got him publicly shat on by the Rothschild family and done over by Mandelson. 🙂

I think I'm aware by now that George Osborne goes on better holidays than I do. It's also possible to have a genuine empathy with people less fortunate than oneself, and to have a common touch despite great wealth. Osborne has neither. But having awesome holidays doesn't prevent it necessarily...

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/4974,news-comment,news-politics,youve-gone-too-far-tony-blair

http://www.dream-marine.com/yachting-news/109/tony-blair-entertained-on-rising-sun-superyacht

The UK is one of the most unequal societies in the developed world. The Lorenz curve rocketed under Thatcher as she destroyed unions and 'rewarded the wealth creators' and it has stayed up there ever since. Finland, Japan, Sweden have much greater equality and much more social mobility.

Straight from the most biased newspaper in the land.......

Brilliant article, caught that earlier this morning, Carole trounces the other one, and the quote "horribly expensive if you can't afford it, free if you can" sums up life/the subtle social fractures in middle class-upper class London in a way that only good comedy can.

The only people I know who can afford to live in W1/N1/EC1/WC1 postcodes at market rent actually live there for free.

I'm a known lefty but I've got no problem with this at all. Man's on holiday, he has money, it won't help empty the bins or get me a job if he stays at home moaning. Let him go skiing.

It's the message though isn't it. Like it or not, politicians' holidays are part of the discourse of politics in the UK and inferences are made based on where they go. Osborne must know this, so by going to Klosters (not Val Thorens or Tignes - Klosters!) he is deliberately sticking two fingers up at the British public.

I think if the british public is so touchy that's their problem. Never been much of a one for the politics of envy myself. What do we think he should do, donate the money to the inland revenue instead?

Its not the politics of envy in this case

he sets in chain a series of policies that are going to mean real cuts in income to many people saying " we are all in it together" but then goes off on a holiday that is only available to the rich with their rich friends

Its the symbolism.

Northwind I have to agree. Why the diddles should he modify what he does with his money. It isn't really any of anyone elses business. The articles sums up something about us Brits that really pees me off: the instance that we should tell people what to do.

Er, Toys, is that not exactly what Osbourne and this centralising rightwing government is doing? No, you shall have a privatised health service, you will only study these subjects at school and you can only go to univeristy if you're rich like me, no, you can't have a job and support your family...and then he piste off to Klosters on an £11000 mini-break. Two nations.

"TandemJeremy - Member

Its not the politics of envy in this case

he sets in chain a series of policies that are going to mean real cuts in income to many people saying " we are all in it together" but then goes off on a holiday that is only available to the rich with their rich friends

Its the symbolism."

Do you want him to hire a caravan in north wales for the week? What would that achieve? The fact is, he's minted and could wander off and never work a day in his life and still be minted- no sense in pretending otherwise. Balls to symbolism.

IMO 😉

you really have no problem with a hereditary millionairre making it financially harder for us all - especially the poor - who sells it to us as we are all in it together slashing budgets , increasing taxes then ****ing off on a holiday that costs thousands. It is in really bad taste to do this at this time. I am not envious of him it is just callous and insensitive for the grim reaper of public expenditure to do this.
Symbolically it would have been much better to give it to the revenue and by God he could afford to. It may have kept one cleaner in job and stopped them being made redundnant but hey he had fun and **** you pleps.
Politics of envy is such a poor cliche I dont wish to have his wealth I want to deprive him of [some of it]for the common good...not sure why you think that is so bad...you know sharing things fairly

imagine one child has a packet of sweets and wont share any with their sibling.When they complain do you take the sweetless child to one side to admonish them for the politics of envy or do you make the other share?

The fact is, he's minted and could wander off and never work a day in his life and still be minted- no sense in pretending otherwise.

I ****ing wish he would.

imagine one child has a packet of sweets and wont share any with their sibling.When they complain do you take the sweetless child to one side to admonish them for the politics of envy or do you make the other share?

I'd give the greedy one a clip round the ear, take the sweets off them, and give them all to the other child, and force the first child to watch the second child eat all the sweets, to teach them a lesson about not being so flipping selfish.

🙂

Actually I have eaten virtually a whole bayg of Haribo Tangfastics today. I feel no compunction about this whatsoever. 😮

Junkyard - Member

"imagine one child has a packet of sweets and wont share any with their sibling.When they complain do you take the sweetless child to one side to admonish them for the politics of envy or do you make the other share?"

What a [i]terrible[/i] analogy. Here's another- one sibling has sweets and won't share. You take the sweets away from him and throw them in the bin- now everyone's equal! In this situation I don't want to be the other sibling, being happy because even though he still has no sweets, now my brother doesn't either.

I have a problem with his "We're all facing hard times" chat but that's the issue, not him going on holiday. Even if he didn't go, it'd be meaningless posturing, we'd still not be "in it together".

No Junkyard's analogy was better actually so there.

you think mine is [i]terrible[/i] and then give that instead 😯 has anyone suggested a KLF style erradication of Gideons wealth via a large fire or bin? I say we use his wealth for the common good not just throw it away. Everyone can see that throwing them away is to waste an opportunity. That really is poor, very very poor In fact trully trully awful I hope you are drunk.
I agree it is empty rhetoric but he could have kept up the pretence a little better as surely that makes him a liar and a hypocrit rather than just a liar.

Elfinsafety - Member

No Junkyard's analogy was better actually so there.

😆

Hey, I said mine was terrible too!

The trouble with the idea of giving the sweets out is that the amount of sweets here is utterly irrelevant compared with the scale sweet shortage. Even if he was to give the sweets away, there still wouldn't be enough to go round so he'd have none and you'd still have none.

How many sweets? Well, the £11000 being talked about isn't the actual cost, it's just made up nonsense but if we assume for a moment it's true then let's split those 11000 sweets between everyone else out there and we all get 1/6200th of a sweet. Mmm, delicious!

Too many sweets aren't good for your teeth. 🙁

Heh! You like that one innit, Lifer? 🙂

There is a big misconception that skiing is just for rich people. It's been wide open to any class for two decades at least. I've had loads of cheap ski holidays. I ski down the same white stuff as the toff who stays in the posh hotel. Just like I walk along the same pavements as rich people in other holiday desinations.

There's a well known left winger on here who's thinking of taking up sailing. This came as a bit of a shock to me because i thought sailing might clash with his socialist prejudices! 😯

The Guardian and it's readers have such a bloody chip on their shoulders!

Everyone will become a toff given enough money, especially those who have come from a deprived background. Precott is a good example.

Speaking of Prescott, guess where he spent Christmas? On the Queen Mary Two, cruising round the Carribean. Makes a ski holiday look like a day trip to Blackpool!

Seen as though he almost certainly pays more tax than anyone else here, and probably more than every poster combined will pay for many years, perhaps the genuine socialists on here would like to write to him and thank him for the nurses and school teachers that he pays for and wish him a lovely holiday.

Those that moan the most on here might like to post up what they have contributed to the public finances last year/work harder and get more of the money that they obviously have an issue about other people owning/shut up and get a life.

LOL Spongebob- well said m8

(Woody - skier/boarder for many years [b]and[/b] am a lowly NHS employee)

If you want to hate rich people more - get stuck in a chalet with them.

More from the STW pro Labour party, contributors 🙄

The world isn't fair, equal, just. This is the way of the world, always has been.

When, I wonder, will lefties get that basic message and stop trying to make the world in their image.

"Rob the rich, give to the poor." Who says that ?.... The poor do.
Wow, what a shocker !. (not)

Legions of people under the red banner of [i]equality[/i], running around putting the world [i]right[/i].

Heres an idea for you. Instead of picking fault and snearing at people with more than you.
Put your begging bowl down, stop thinking that the rich should have most of it taken away. And get on with enriching yourselves

SpongeBob.
Very well put.

And the usual drivel from the right wingers. Are you really that hard of thinking?

Can you really not understand why this is politically stupid? You can rant and rave all you like but the symbolism of what he has done is the issue.

Nice personal attacks on me as well - oh the ironing!

And get on with enriching yourselves

UK Politics is silly and childish - everyone knows what politicans really mean when they talk/avoid the question/lie but if they ever say so openly then they get crucified for it - it's just stupidly childish.

Against that background, any politican, particularly one at the level of Osbourne, should be well aware that they're open to that kind of senseless scrutiny and should act accordingly. Going on a posh skiing holiday is either naive or stupid even though really there's no problem - he's rich and he can afford it - just as it's ok for many on here to post on here while at work while other people in the UK live in poverty. It just looks bad, particularly to the simple of thinking (note, I didn't say stupid - I think there's a big difference) which seems to be a significant majority who read and believe whatever they hear in the media be it the Sun, Guardian, Telegraph, Times, Independent, whatever.

As TJ said, Cameron has made a point of taking holidays in the UK, no doubt purely because of the better impression it gives as like the top politicians from all the main parties, he's a long way from being poor and could happily afford similar skiing hols.

The most surprising thing from the article was [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/10/in-praise-of-lemmy-motorhead ]this link on the right.[/url] Lemmy is 65!!! 😯
Insensitive politician sticking it to the voting public shocker and people reacting double shocker, nothing new really.

There is a big misconception that skiing is just for rich people. It's been wide open to any class for two decades at least. I've had loads of cheap ski holidays. I ski down the same white stuff as the toff who stays in the posh hotel. Just like I walk along the same pavements as rich people in other holiday desinations.

But as said above (by me) the thing is he didn't just go skiing, to like Val Thorens or wherever, but rather Klosters, the most elitist of the elitist ski resorts, and to make things worse, didn't stay in a legit 5* hotel and pay legit 5* rates but rather stayed in a friend's chalet for free. People are invoking that last fact in his defence, to say it was really a cheap holiday, but the point is that it's even more elitist, i.e., that not only can he afford to go to Klosters, but that when he goes, it's actually free!

Funny that, I was on the Eurostar to Bourg-St-Maurice last week and sat near to Vince Cable - he looked like a beaten man!

This is pure lifestyle envy, not a story.

Only a politically naive imbecile would go skiing now.

Both true IMO.

BTW. Klosters is not an especially posh ski resort. Posh people go to Lech or Courcheval 1850.

I couldn't care less where he goes on holiday or what it costs, as long as it is his money and not paid out of the public purse.

There are plenty of politicians from every political persuasion who are more than happy to take advantage and go on free trips under the guise of 'fact finding' or 'trade missions'. Those are the ones who should be targeted, not someone who, regardless of what your opinion is of him politically or personally, works bloody hard and can afford it.

Klosters is not an especially posh ski resort. Posh people go to Lech or Courcheval 1850.

Klosters = Old moneyed recluses

Courchevel = Russians, footballer's wives and Johnny Halliday.

I've never been to Lech, is it any good?

Honestly don't care.

His family has a baronetcy and a vast amount of wealth FFS - he's not like us. It would be far worse if he went to a caravan in Dunoon instead to give the through-gritted-teeth impression he was down with the oiks. At least if he's skiing there's an outside chance he might lose control and slam into a tree.

I have a problem with the gleeful, ideologically-driven dismantling of the NHS and the welfare state that this pudding-faced toff is the public face for, not how he chooses to holiday.

ideologically-driven dismantling of the NHS

Wow - he's only been in government for a few months and he's already being given all the credit for that! Told you he works hard.

"I've never been to Lech, is it any good?"

Lech/Zurs is stunning - tonnes of untracked off-piste. You best bet is to take accommodation in St Anton, itself not cheap, and then take the bus over the Flexenpass each day. If you're highly competent, you can ride down off the back of the Valluga and return on the bus - but you may die 😉

[img] [/img]

I've looked at accommodation prices in Klosters and they are comparable to other swiss ski resorts. It can be cheaper than the neighbouring city of Davos, perhaps because it's not as well connected into the skiing area. I'm making the point that in the UK, Klosters is mis-represented somewhat because it's patronised by the Wales'.

I forgot to mention St Moritz, and also Verbier - truly eye-watering prices. Perhaps you've heard of the "Farm Club"? BTW, I did a day-visit to Verbier and saw Richard Branson skiing there - he has an unusually graceful, feminine style of skiing.

I take it there will be a whole bunch of people here that will be holidaying in their back garden in a tent made up of unsold copies of Socialist Worker this year - after all, it's the symbolism that matters, and the bloke down the road selling The Big Issue [s]is horribly jealous of your two weeks in the sun[/s] err, [b]just thinks that because you have more than he does things should be shared out more equally[/b].

courcheval is kinda funny, some ridiculously hot russian babes with very dodgy burly looking russian blokes
best of all are the girls in full animal print ski suits, gold skis D&G sunnies etc

and to keep my leftie? credentials we stayed in bride le bains at the botttom of the valley and took a 45 min cable car ride up to the posh bits

Klosters (not Val Thorens or Tignes - Klosters!)

im with you on 'not' and 'or' however my income has not allowed me to learn any of the other words you quoted. Im guessing they are foreign ski resorts.

im genuinely sorry that you can only afford to take your children to Tignes this year for your winter break.

This year I won't be holidaying at my home in Spain, I will be holidaying in the UK, happy?

I take it there will be a whole bunch of people here that will be holidaying in their back garden in a tent made up of unsold copies of Socialist Worker this year - after all, it's the symbolism that matters, and the bloke down the road selling The Big Issue is horribly jealous of your two weeks in the sun err, just thinks that because you have more than he does things should be shared out more equally.

exactly.

i will be holidaying in the uk

as ive just had a baby and evil george has snatched away the child benefit we woudl have got as well as whacked up vat etc etc

Kimbers

Think the pride you will feel when you can turn round to him/her and say "I you brought you up myself from the fruits of my labour without any handouts from The State". 😉

jhw - Member

"People are invoking that last fact in his defence, to say it was really a cheap holiday, but the point is that it's even more elitist, i.e., that not only can he afford to go to Klosters, but that when he goes, it's actually free!"

You don't think it's relevant?
"It's disgraceful that Osborne is going on an expensive holiday!"
"Actually it's not that expensive"
"That's even WORSE!!oNe!"

and evil george has snatched away the child benefit we woudl have got as well as whacked up vat etc etc

Socialism is just wonderful.
( as long as someone else is paying for it )

Heres an idea for you. Instead of picking fault and snearing at people with more than you.
Put your begging bowl down, stop thinking that the rich should have most of it taken away. And get on with enriching yourselves

What if the rich have things sewn up so tight it's actually incredibly difficult for anyone from a 'normal' or 'poor' background to ever really succeed?

If you have more than enough to eat, while someone else starves, then you have too much. That's the truth.

What if the rich have things sewn up so tight it's actually incredibly difficult for anyone from a 'normal' or 'poor' background to ever really succeed?

[i]You know that five in every four
Just won't amount to nothin' more
Gonna watch the rats go across the floor
And make up songs about being poor

Blow your harmonica, son![/i]

no matter how right wing you are you cannot believe that.

backhander you are only stupid

Do you truly believe that the Guardian is the most biased paper out there??? 😯

I'm not right wing. I set sweetly in the middle

Be'ave! 😆

Everyone to my left thinks I'm on the right. Everyone to my right thinks I'm on the left. So, of course you think I'm right wing but in reality I'm not.

Is it too early to call anyone a communist or fascist yet? 🙄

[i]Blow your harmonica, son![/i]

[i]Politics is the entertainment branch of industry[/i]

does this mean I have to cancel my holiday next week or risk being ostracised from STW?

No Phil - if you have the money ( legitimately sourced ) to go on holiday then what business is it of anyone else what decisions you make for yourself.

Unless that is you are the sort of hypocrite that would deny the same liberty to another person because they think differently to you or you have, however poorly disguised, a nasty infection of envy.

So, of course you think I'm right wing but in reality I'm not.

No, you are. Many's the time on here you've espoused right-wing ideologies. Calling the Guardian 'the most biased newspaper in the land'! What, compared to the Daily Mail??? Are you serious?????????

Socialism = child benefit? I thought that would be more in the realms of social democracy.

Don't most of us pay taxes in this society? Surely you put £££ into society and it gets distributed fairly? Or does it?

If you need to blame someone then perhaps more blame should be heaped on the tax evaders - from huge corporations to those little business people that 'cook the books'.

Or perhaps how and where government spends its money should be looked at in finer details by voters and non-voters alike. If transparency is the banner they are waving then perhaps government allocated spending should be audited and judged accordingly. If we truly live in a free market society then state funding of everything should be looked at as we wouldn't want to stop fair competition and free enterprise would we?

phil - are you responsible for the cuts and for saying " we are all in this together" ?

Are you a politician?

Is the press going to attack you for going on holiday?

This year I shall be holidaying in Bradford. 🙂

No, you are. Many's the time on here you've espoused right-wing ideologies. Calling the Guardian 'the most biased newspaper in the land'! What, compared to the Daily Mail??? Are you serious?????????

this year I shall be holidaying in spain (mtb), saunton sands (family), morzine (mtb), and maybe somewhere else hot too (family). 4 holidays happy flipping days.

I don't espouse any ideology of any wing. That's your mistake.

Oh ok then.

I'm not right wing. I set sweetly in the middle it's just that you are so far left that you're not actually on this planet anymore.

I'm not stupid either, I'm intelligent enough to make my own mind up about things rather than be brainwashed by the left wing or right wing media. You can stop with the personal insults too, that horse you're sitting on is getting shorter and shorter.

I've just eaten an entire packet of crab-flavoured sticks. 😳

dont believe you that story smells fishy to me
IGMC

No it's actually true and I've got some new socks.