[Closed] The people of England are angry- revolution/riots on way ?!?

maxtorque - Member
Thing is Capitalism is automatically self balancing. RISK vs REWARD.

If you are the manager of a company that turns over £10.72 a year and makes 39 pence profit, your reward will, necessarily be limited.

If you are the manager of a company that turns over £10.72 Billion a year and makes £390 Million profit, your reward will, necessarily be rather higher.

People who get results get rewarded. People who sit on their fat lazy asses all day watching Bargain Hunters get nothing.

So here's my advice: It makes NO DIFFERENCE which political party you support, because they are not the ones driving our country!

Far, far, far better to get off your ass, find something you enjoy doing, work hard at doing that, and make YOUR life better YOURSELF! There are plenty of self made millionaires, people who despite not having an a amazing schooling or background have worked hard, and made themselves. The problem, is that it's much easier to just sit back and moan, rather than get up, get out, and do something about it............

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The Money's Mine.

Can't buy you love, though. Love.

maxtorque - Member
Thing is Capitalism is automatically self balancing. RISK vs REWARD.

If you are the manager of a company that turns over £10.72 a year and makes 39 pence profit, your reward will, necessarily be limited.

If you are the manager of a company that turns over £10.72 Billion a year and makes £390 Million profit, your reward will, necessarily be rather higher.

People who get results get rewarded. People who sit on their fat lazy asses all day watching Bargain Hunters get nothing.

So here's my advice: It makes NO DIFFERENCE which political party you support, because they are not the ones driving our country!

Far, far, far better to get off your ass, find something you enjoy doing, work hard at doing that, and make YOUR life better YOURSELF! There are plenty of self made millionaires, people who despite not having an a amazing schooling or background have worked hard, and made themselves. The problem, is that it's much easier to just sit back and moan, rather than get up, get out, and do something about it............

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

The implication being that if you are not fabulously well-off you simply aren't trying hard enough. Nice.

Also, I presume all these self-made millionaires have built their own roads to get to work. They employ their own police force to protect them when someone tries to nick their wealth? They have their own self-funded fire station for the possibility that their mansion may catch fire?

Society organized along the lines of frontier towns during a gold rush - sounds ace.

My analogy for this kind of capitalism is a busy motorway. Most people are doing 55 stay alive. Leaving a reasonable gap and partly ensuring everyone else's safety at the same time as their own. Then along comes your self-made man. He doesn't break any laws because he can't do more than seventy anyway, but he can gain five minutes on that 90 minute journey by weaving in and out, undertaking, and generally being a bit of a ****. Most of the time he gets away with it. Most of the time he just gets the odd hand gesture, and that makes him feel good, because the losers who stay in lane and contribute to everyone else's safety are just jealous of his masculinity.

The one day he causes a massive pile-up, or more likely he collides with another of his ilk and causes a massive pile-up.

its the myth of capitalism

for every single winner there has to be million - possibly even billions- of losers

the idea that they all worked hard - hits impossible to work hard enough to be worth billions- or that the majority dont inherit it is also not true

IME the hardest jobs i ever did were also the lowest paid jobs I ever did

There are plenty of self made millionaires

Are you suggesting if we all just worked hard enough every single person on the planet could be one?

The 'everyone can be a millionaire if they try hard enough' myth is also made more difficult to achieve when the first thing a lot of millionaires do when they get a million quid is take every possible action in their power to get another million quid - usually by preventing other people from getting a slice of the action.

Have a quick read up on the South African diamond and gold fields and Cecil Rhodes, De Beers, Wernher Beit et al if you want to see how unregulated capitalism really works.

One thing it most certainly isn't is morally defensible.

oldtalent - Member

Until they grow up. Then get a job. Then think 'labour wanting to give all my hard earned money to the sponging layabouts? No thanks' Then they become tory voters.

Ah, you're unaware that in the last election, all demographic groups under 50 voted mostly Labour? And the only groups that voted majority tory were 60+? All those 47 year olds who need to grow up and get a job. (because that's where the crossover is that you're more likely to vote Tory. Not 20, not 30, 47.)

People who get results get rewarded

Hah. Footsoldiers get results, they generally get paid a fraction of the generals. Getting results doesn't get you rewarded, claiming credit gets you rewarded. "Taking risks" is fine but the people taking the risks generally aren't those who lose out. Bankers taking risks with other people's money, developers taking risks with cheaper materials, politicians taking risks with the economy. When a company goes out of business the people who get laid off weren't taking the risks.

But this is completely beside the point- there will always be winners and losers. You can, to some limited extent, change your own personal odds but that doesn't reduce the number of losers, it just means you win (to some extent) and someone else loses. It is impossible for everyone to lift themselves up. This is the equivalent of saying "get a job" to everyone, when there's 5% unemployment. All individuals can hope to change is who is unemployed.

Me, I'm doing OK, so when I get angry it's not because I sit on my ass and expect better or because I expect someone else to pay my way- it's because some other poor bastard just died in a fire, or because some other poor bastard got sanctioned for no good reason and can't feed their kids til the 12 week long appeal process decides they shouldn't have been sanctioned in the first place, or because some poor bastard lost their job after 40 years because some brave risk taker did something stupid then retired.

but be fair they worked so much harder than those bloody miners who just sat on their arses eh ...that why they were poor eh

Me, I'm doing OK, so when I get angry it's not because I sit on my ass and expect better- it's because some other poor bastard just died in a fire.

This +1.

It is offensive the automatic assumption the likes of the Daily Heil try to peddle is that any protest is populated by lazy ne'er-do-wells who are motivated by jealousy and just want the opportunity to loot a widescreen tv.

What the Heil and their ilk fear the most is compassion and solidarity that is based on anything other than wealth generation and retention. That is 'dangerous' in their eyes.

Northwind

Me, I'm doing OK, so when I get angry it's not because I sit on my ass and expect better or because I expect someone else to pay my way- it's because some other poor bastard just died in a fire, or because some other poor bastard got sanctioned for no good reason and can't feed their kids til the 12 week long appeal process decides they shouldn't have been sanctioned in the first place, or because some poor bastard lost their job after 40 years because some brave risk taker did something stupid then retired.

And how much of your money have you given to those 'poor' people to help them out?

We have no idea, if under an X, Y or Z Government that the Grenfell Tower disaster would have occurred. In fact, we simply do not at this time, and probably cannot ever with certainty, know the effect of a single decision made years ago. (chaos theory is the driving force in or complex world).

So perhaps Labour would have made sprinklers mandatory, and London's Councils would have spent their money on sprinklers instead of say, air quality improvements, and overall in fact, more people would have died (but not in a single, "oooh wasn't that terrible, look at the pictures" kind of way that modern society so likes to crow on about....

My point stands. if YOU want a better life, get out and grab it. It's yours for the taking.

maxtorque - Member

My point stands. if YOU want a better life, get out and grab it. It's yours for the taking.

Aye, it's so easy, and everyone in that tower just hadn't bothered.

Oh no wait. Khadija Saye, an artist who was currently having work shown internationally. Mohammad Alhajali, a refugee, studying engineering at the University of London died, his brother- also a refugee, studying business, survived. Gloria Trevisan and Marco Gottardi, architecture graduates who moved to London to seek work in their profession, none of these were doing anything for a better life. And those who had- Sabah Abdullah, a retired college lecturer, survived but his wife is presumed dead. Ali Yawar Jafari, 82, presumably should have gone out and got a job.

Isaac Shawo, currently missing, hadn't done anything to get out and grab a better life but then, he was only five. Malek Belkadi was 10, his little sister 6 months old, Mehdi el-Wahabi 8, Firdaws Jemal, 12, Yahya Jemal, 13, Yaqub Jemal, 6, Jessica Urbano, 12, Biruk Haftom, 12.

(some of these are missing rather than confirmed dead, we can only hope they are found)

In conclusion, you disgust me.

Tbf I didn't really get that from maxtorque's post. Did he imply any of that Northwind?
Not trying to start an argument it just seemed a bit harsh imo

When did i say it was easy?

You can't take individual cases in an average statement.

Yesterday, i bet a nurse, or doctor, or charity worker, or similar person who devotes there life to the betterment of others was killed in some accident. I mean, why them and why not some rapist or arsonist (if we being controversial!)

The fact is this; LIFE ISN'T FAIR. It's never been fair, it never will be.

Which is why it comes back to, on AVERAGE, if you want to make your life better, from where ever it is now, it's YOUR responsibility to do that above everything else.

Every time you moan about something, instead, use the time to better yourself, to make some new contacts, to learn something, to engage in conversation, etc etc. Those are the things that pay off, the things that "make you lucky". Whilst chance is random, luck isn't.

And yup, unfortunately some of those people making their life better WILL be killed whilst doing so, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

The fact is this; LIFE ISN'T FAIR. It's never been fair, it never will be

What exactly is wrong for that

as for the try hard and you will suceeed its both true and false as lot depends on other factors

Plenty of folk work long hours in shitty low paid jobs and are not shirkers. however they lacked the talent to succeed - they are not all lazy

To use bikes it like having a bike ride and assuming all those who dont win are lazy and did not try and its their fault . Its sort of true - winners will work hard but it ignores the fact we all had natural talent and luck - the luck in the bike ride comes in that you are given a bike which can vary from a penny farthing to pone with punctures to the latest road bikes and then still deciding the winner tried the hardest and then defending it y saying life is not fair.

Essentially I think we all agree we should all contribute equally the issues is do you think we should all be rewarded equally and if we were do you think more people would contribute?

I suspect there would be a lot less unemployed if all wages were 40 k for example. Its not just about working for your reward its about the reward being worth working for.

I like the use of capitals here. It's really helping.

maxtorque - Member

When did i say it was easy?

"if YOU want a better life, get out and grab it. It's yours for the taking" - so if you don't get a better life, it's because you didn't grab it, all you had to do was take it.

"Capitalism is automatically self balancing"- so if you don't have a better life, it must be your fault

"People who sit on their fat lazy asses all day watching Bargain Hunters get nothing."

"get off your ass"

"It's much easier to just sit back and moan, rather than get up, get out, and do something about it..."

Apparently sometimes you dont have to work very hard to get results 😉

Maxtorque--funny guy , i've noticed all those budding millionaires working two , three jobs , to make ends meet , zero hours , bogus self employment , agencies/ pimps , and offf the back of all this endeavour are a small number getting very rich due to contacts, rigged markets , and inherited wealth providing the foundation to make more , that's capitalism for ya , like the lottery , few winners but many many more losers , and you max are in the small camp

9/11 reality is the real drama.

Do try and stick with it.

I get the impression that most of the people on here are just suffering from the dreaded envy. I used to do the IT trading systems for traders in London who made a fortune. Was I bitter and twisted. Of course not, they made there path in life and I made mine. Just the way it goes.

The old "if I cannot have it why should they" mentality stinks.

😆

Go on....pull the other one - it's got bells on it!

If you're going to troll you need to learn be just a little bit more subtle.....2/10 & I reckon that's being generous...

The funny thing here is that I am not trolling and just giving my observation based on what I have read. All the talk about taxing everyone more and not paying Doctors ... more than a 100k.

Great in theory, but I'd predict a brain drain.

The old "if I cannot have it why should they" mentality stinks.

So does the 'I'm going to grab what I can and sod how I make it and sod the impact on everyone else' mentality. That's what the current anger is about.

Framing it as jealousy is a typical autocratic approach so you give yourself the excuse to criticise and crack down on legitimate anger. Look at Syria and Turkey for the best current examples of that technique!

Setting up a business and running it in a legal manner paying required taxes, providing jobs and treating your investors, suppliers, employees and customers with respect is completely and utterly viable and you can make yourself incredibly rich like that. Take a look at Timpsons if you want to see a family make itself very rich but doing so responsibly and ethically. I might add that they are very well connected with the Parliamentary Tory Party so by no means are they some kind of lefty collective!

Info here [url= https://www.timpson.co.uk/about/meet-the-timpsons ]Timpsons...[/url]

Worth also pointing out that the biggest cause of inequality in the UK is NOT earned wealth, but housing... House prices are only currently going up because the younger generation are being forced into a life of debt slavery to keep the whole bubble going...
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/20/property-owners-inequality-home-ownership-resolution-foundation ]Property driving inequality[/url]

In a new report, the thinktank noted that the baby boomers born in the 20 years after the second world war were the big beneficiaries of rapidly rising house prices, but had amassed most of the wealth through no skill of their own. Wealth disparities would have “worrying consequences” for the living standards of younger generations, it added.

Greater equality of wealth keeps economic growth running more smoothly. A rich man spends a lower proportion of his income than a poor man - there's only so much he can spend it on. So the more evenly spread a country's earnings are across the population, the more of it gets spent and the more growth you get.

If you want riots or the proles to come around and smash your windows then keep making sneery comments about inequality and keep making assumptions that people who're poor have had the same life chances as everyone else and therefore are poor from their own lack of hard work... and that people who're rich have somehow created every last bit of it through their own entrepreneurialism and hard work. That's a myth and not one you want to repeat to the face of someone tired of dealing with sneery middle class prejudice...

If we do get violence then it won't be because of our inequality per se, it'll be the nasty victim-blaming by the middle classes and the rich that generates the anger... I might point out that plenty of middle classes and rich aren't stupid enough to be like this, just an idiot few...

I've also been around the City for 15 years. Plenty of people there make their money legally and legitimately but I also saw a culture of real nasty backstabbing and general dishonesty... might be worth noting SFO being all over Barclays for an example of City culture...

tbh i think it's less funny than you might imagine. people pay tax according to their means. doctors don't become doctors by being grown in a vat. their parents had support from society to help them get there, as they were also supported. it's in society's interests to invest in people so they can put back through whatever means they can.
i'm not a doctor, i pay a reasonable level of tax (by which i mean above average ), and without kids i don't get any of that back in any sort of benefit payment. that's my contribution. i'd gladly pay more if it meant more kids had a better start in life as a result, services were better funded, and yes, the nhs was in better hands.
this concept of 'i got to be in the 5% all by myself and if you think you can take this money off me i'll just f off somewhere they won't' i find selfish in the extreme.
earn as much as you like, spend it on what you want, same as i do, but just chip in, eh?

brooess +1

The greater the inequality, the less happier society is - more crime, either the poor killing the poor (well, that's all ok) or (and it's always only a matter of time) the proles looking for it from the rich. I can't ever work out why the wealthy are so fearful of contributing more. They'd still have loads left and they'd be less afraid of the poor taking their stuff by force. Try living in a "middle class" gated community in Jo'burg or São Paulo - just to see what fear is like in societies ridden with inequality.

Great in theory, but I'd predict a brain drain.

Never happens and never will but is always predicted by those that like massive inequality.

Never happens and never will but is always predicted by those that like massive inequality.

This, all just people trying to justify why the shouldn't have to contribute to the society that enabled them to do well.....

Like the Scottish government? Odd when a left of centre, anti-austerity party are afraid of a brain drain too.

DAY OF RAGE! RAGE, DAMMIT! RAGE!
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Actually, nah. Sod it. I've just bought a box of Calippos, shall we sit in the park for a while?

Protesters would have been glad to have Borises water cannon turned on them today!