[Closed] The new fenton ?

contains some nsfw language.

took me a while to work out that the bloke in the red top wasn't a nutter!

Guy who is in the passenger seat is dangerously incompetent.

Guy who is in the passenger seat is dangerously incompetent

I think he did a good job of saving the situation actually, getting the car onto the grass to go round in a circle.

A quick look at the driver's feet would have identified the problem and allowed it to be fixed.

If someone is telling you that they're braking and the obviously aren't then that is normally the first thing to check.

Knocking the car out of gear and easing the handbrake on would also work.

How can you have your braking foot on the clutch?

How is that even possible?

you would either have to have two feet on the clutch

or be using your left foot for braking.

I'm lost!

[i]Knocking the car out of gear and easing the handbrake on would also work[/i]

given the clutch was down the gear stick was irrelevant. In my car the handbrake lever is to the right of the driver, on Merc's it's ont he floor by the drivers feet.

In hindsight, saying 'check you have your foot on the right pedal' might have helped more than just shouting brake slightly more hysterically, though.

The clutch being down is not irrelevant. What happens when the driver takes their foot off the clutch and it's still in gear? Lots of damage?

A quick look at the driver's feet would have identified the problem

He didn't do that?

I do love stw.

Mildly diverting driver error video requires second by second analysis of instructors reactions.

I've decided to just enjoy it for what it is 🙂

[edit]
I expect we coudl discuss what this bloke did wrong until the cows come home, too. (contains nsfw language)

If you're paid to teach people how to drive fast in expensive and powerful cars then you should probably be good at teaching people how to drive fast whilst keeping them relatively safe. He shat the bed.

[i]Mildly diverting driver error video requires second by second analysis of instructors reactions[/i]

Yeah, I thought we were just laughing at the bloke go "BRAKE BRAKE BRAKE"
But it's not really funny anymore.
It's like giving Fenton's owner advice on dog training.

glupton1976: Perhaps it's not a scenario that comes up too often?

Second-guessing the pedals may be obvious to a driving instructor, who is used to dealing with complete novices.

But I would imagine that most of this guy's pupils have mastered the fundamentals of driving a car before they come to a test track.

Guess work has no place in teaching people to drive cars fast.

Jesus H Christ!! Has anyone recommended an IAM course to these two?

Who? glupton and wwaswas?

If you're paid to teach people how to drive fast in expensive and powerful cars then you should probably be good at teaching people how to drive fast whilst keeping them relatively safe. He shat the bed.

I imagine there's a clause in the T&Cs that says people must be able to brake before starting the lessons. And I think it's entirely reasonable to expect someone to be able to brake when you say "BRAKE!BRAKE!BRAKE!BRAKE!BRAKE!BRAKE!". He then thought on his feet and rescued the situation. I see no issues.

Molgrips I expect you to disagree with anything I post regardless of whether it is correct or not. Some might call it trolling.

I disagree that it's trolling.

Trolling is deliberately posting stuff to try and wind people up.

I just disagree with you.

Out of interest what would you have done had you been the instructor?

[i]Out of interest what would you have done had you been the instructor? [/i]

Not posted the video on the internet 😉

I would have said "STOP!"
Stop is different from "BRAKE" because it takes two pedals to stop and you wouldn't be having two feet on the clutch.

Doubt that would have made a difference.

I didnt expect you to think that it would.

You seem to think I have some kind of personal problem with you. I don't, I'm happy to agree with you and respect your opinion, you just seem to talk shite so often 🙂

You two have just sucked all the funniness out of that video.

Bloody Buzz Killingtons the pair of you. 🙁

Reported.

It wasn't that funny. If he'd done a few more laps of the airport getting ever more hysterical, that would have been better 🙂 Or if he'd said what he was clearly thinking - "get out of the car, your lesson is over"

Stop is different from "BRAKE" because it takes two pedals to stop and you wouldn't be having two feet on the clutch.

This guy can't follow the instruction "BRAKE" by pressing the brake pedal with 1 foot. Asking him to do something that involves 2 feet could make for an even more entertaining video 🙂

I would have said "STOP!"

Brilliant. like the guy driving is going to think "aaah stop is different to brake, and I need to stop safely, so I'll use both pedals, Oh, hold on, my foot is on the clutch"

I imagine the guy was trying to teach him left foot braking?

Stopping a car is a reflex action.

[i]Stopping a car is a reflex action. [/i]

Yep, it's right up there with "Hot! Hot! Hot!" in the scale of evolutionary knee jerk reactions.

I'd have opened the passenger door, done an AWSUM stunt roll and left the driver to it.

Stopping a car is a reflex action.

Is it? I'd question that statement quite strongly.

Guy who is in the passenger seat is dangerously incompetent.

The "Driving Gods" arrived on this thread very quickly 🙄

Is there some sort of email alert system or a light that shines up into the sky ?
as there isn't even a clue in the title that Driving Gods would get a chance to pontificate on the thread.

Whatever it is, it's working, keep it up.

Or more correctly stopping a car in an emergency is a reflex action. A bit like tuck and roll when you come off your bike.

[i]A bit like tuck and roll when you come off your bike. [/i]

I seem stuck at flail and crunch.

The driver was already convinced he was braking. Every time the passenger said 'Brake' he just pressed the pedal he was already on harder. It's the same reflex that leads old ladies to end up driving into Tesco's whilst parking. In their heads they're already doing the right thing so they just try and do more of it.

Genius! I had my foot on the clutch.....! 😀

Well, I found it funny.

The guy was saying brake harder. This led to the guy presing the pedal harder. Stop is a totally different instruction. By involving the second foot he'll realise that his "braking" foot is on the wrong pedal.

This one could go viral!

Or more correctly stopping a car in an emergency is a reflex action. A bit like tuck and roll when you come off your bike.

Once the guy was on the grass and in a spin, it was pretty obvious to him he had to stop the car, yet he didn't do it, and that's even with a guy shouting 'BRAKE' at him, he looked at his feet. So I would say stopping a car in an emergency isn't a reflex action.

That made me crack up at work. Pity glupton has to take it too seriously!

A bit like tuck and roll when you come off your bike.

Ah, so it's the sort of "reflex action" that 90% of people don't seem to be able to do then ?

We watched people on the skills area in Meribel Mottaret for a couple of hours one lunchtime.

Almost ever tumble (and there were loads) went down Arms outstretched, head back, and landed on there hands/knees/belly.

Hardly anyone seemed to be able to tuck and roll.

I'm with glupton on this one - the guy in red totally lost it - surely he must be trained to remain calm and convey calmness to the people he's teaching?

The video is about as funny as genocide too.

Jesus. Party round at Gluptons tonight everyone, it's going to be non stop fun.

[i] the guy in red totally lost it[/i]

I may be wrong here, but I believe that was the funny bit?

Genocide eh? Surely not [i]that[/i] funny?

It's the same reflex that leads old ladies to end up driving into Tesco's whilst parking. In their heads they're already doing the right thing so they just try and do more of it.

Yeah. It's why controlling braking skids (pre-ABS) is challenging for many people. If you're braking and the wheels lock, instinctively you counter the failing brakes by braking harder (thus aggravating the problem).

I may be wrong here, but I believe that was the funny bit?

Oh..... 😥

The video is about as funny as genocide too.

I suppose you think this is funny too eh?

[img] [/img]

The guy was saying brake harder.

No, he said 'brake, you're not braking' ie not braking at all.

Almost ever tumble (and there were loads) went down Arms outstretched, head back, and landed on there hands/knees/belly.

Unconvinced by the rolling thing. Seems to me that risks your shoulder or neck. Landing on your front on an ostensibly flat surface ie trail or gravel just risks a lot of grazing but fewer broken bones. They also say don't put your hands out to save a fall. However I do put my hands out and use them to control where I land - palms heal faster than collarbones.

"Are you alright"

"Yeah. I'm fine, but its er, obviously less than an ideal situation....."

...when you've just filled your pants.

This thread needs a certain tag to highlight its AWSUMNESS

Here's an idea how about Molgrips and Glupton stop.

I wouldn't say stopping a car is a reflex action.....

Sneezing or pulling your hand away from a hot surface is a reflex action.

The guy clearly thought he was braking. As above, he was probably just pressing harder on the 'brake' pedal to get the desired effect.
In his head he was pressing the brake pedal, but the car wasn't slowing down. but in his (their) panic, there was no consideration of why they weren't slowing down.

I did a similar thing at a petrol station years ago in Germany. I pulled in, realised the cap was on the other side and the hose wouldn't reach around the back of the car as it wasn't far enough forward.
I half sat in the car with the door open, took the handbrake off and gave the car a shove with my foot. The garage was on a slope and as it rolled I applied the foot brake (but was actually pressing the accelerator - ignition off, so no vroom vroom noises). It wasn't long before I had gone too far, but was still not stopping. I was pressing and pressing the pedal. I was also getting worryingly close to a car parked side on at the edge of the forecourt where a bloke was checking his tyre pressures. I grabbed the handbrake and the car stopped.
I then looked down to realise that in my half-seated position I'd been pressing the accelerator, not the brake and had to sheepishly start the car up & reverse back to the pump with the bloke who'd been checking his tyres giving me evils....

glupton1976 and molgrips - which is better. There's only one way to find out...

[img] [/img]

I grabbed the handbrake and the car stopped.

Does beg the question as to why the instructor here didn't do that. You wouldn't want to lock the wheels at speed, but he could've applied it progressively to scrub some speed.

The new fenton ?

The video or this thread?

[i]surely he must be trained to remain calm and convey calmness to the people he's teaching?[/i]

Laughing to myself here. Imagining a video where the instructor remained totally calm and said "Could you take your foot off the clutch and press the brake please Brian?". And they came to a nice stop.
How funny would that be!!

molgrips

Unconvinced by the rolling thing. Seems to me that risks your shoulder or neck. Landing on your front on an ostensibly flat surface ie trail or gravel just risks a lot of grazing but fewer broken bones. They also say don't put your hands out to save a fall. However I do put my hands out and use them to control where I land - palms heal faster than collarbones

If you do a Superman and land arms outstretched the energy is transmitted up your arms to your shoulders and your delicate collarbone goes twang (as well as scuffing your palms). That's the way I always understood it, rather than it being the impact of your collar bone on a hard surface that breaks it.

A bloke at work fell on the icy car park a couple of years ago and broke his collar bone on the side he fell where he put his arm out. It's the arm out thing that breaks the collar bone (I think...)

Goes off to watch the funny video again....

Does beg the question as to why the instructor here didn't do that. You wouldn't want to lock the wheels at speed, but he could've applied it progressively to scrub some speed.

As mentioned before, lots of cars have hand brakes on the right of the driver.
A fair few have foot applied hand brakes.
Loads now have electronic hand brakes that don't work at speed.

[img] [/img]

As mentioned before, lots of cars have hand brakes on the right of the driver.
A fair few have foot applied hand brakes.
Loads now have electronic hand brakes that don't work at speed.

Good point. Though these would be features one would want to avoid when purchasing a track vehicle, no?

Meh, anyway. Silly man is silly.

Good point. Though these would be features one would want to avoid when purchasing a track vehicle, no?

Not really, for a rally car maybe ?

But Track cars don't really have a lot of use for a handbrake in a particular position I don't think ?

But Track cars don't really have a lot of use for a handbrake in a particular position I don't think ?

Tut! Might I suggest you go and get yourself some [i]further training[/i]. 🙂

But Track cars don't really have a lot of use for a handbrake in a particular position I don't think ?

Well, there's the use that the chap in the video could've done with, for a start.

I wouldn't expect dual controls necessarily, but I'm surprised they're taking novices out on a track without [i]something [/i]at least.

Meh, anyway. Silly man is silly.

If you do a Superman and land arms outstretched the energy is transmitted up your arms to your shoulders and your delicate collarbone goes twang

Arms out locked, yes, mine will be bent to absorb shock or direct my body away from obstalces etc.

But anyway, yes.

Reported.

mine will be bent to absorb shock

These bent arms, then mol....
Is the 'bent in a shock absorbing mode' a reflex action, then? Or do you just stick them out and end up amazed that nothing has gone snap?? 😉 That's what I do....

Honestly dunno. It's what I do 🙂 It does keep your head away from the ground though...

Regardles of where the handbrake is would it be particually wise to pull it up, even slightly, when doing 70mph and yanking the steering wheel around?

Highly amusing.

Now, is the video in the OP worth watching?

That vid is *just* like my dad teaching me to drive the other night. At one point I thought he was going to actually pass out with the stress.

Regardles of where the handbrake is would it be particually wise to pull it up, even slightly, when doing 70mph and yanking the steering wheel around?

On a track? Sure. Be a giggle, won't it.

I wouldn't expect dual controls necessarily, but I'm surprised they're taking novices out on a track without something at least.

They aren't novice [i]Drivers[/i] though.
They aren't learning to drive.

They are just learning to drive [i]on a track[/i]
I would imagine its pretty (very?) rare that people can't find the brake pedal 🙂

They're doing track day experiences, not getting taught how to drive on a track.

Well, he got an experience alright.

glupton1976 - Member
They're doing track day experiences, not getting taught how to drive on a track.

What do you think the instructor is doing there if he's not teaching how to drive round a track?

A basic lesson yes, but still a lesson on track driving.

They're doing track day experiences, not getting taught how to drive on a track.

You could find an argument in an empty room couldn't you 🙄

I have been the guy in the red jumper.
A friend of mine set up a drift school using MOD tarmac areas and punters paid for 1/2 day sessions.
I can just about drift a car , not very well or very gracefully , but i can hang the back out.
We had billys turn up and it was 1 car on a coned out circuit at a time for 3 laps , with 2 seperate skills areas.
The skills areas were a long straight row of cones , and 2 large cones set a fair distance apart.
I used to teach people to do 'figure of 8's' round the cones.

Yes people do freeze and completely fail to follow instructions. I have had to grab steering wheels from punters and drive from the passenger seat before. OK , this is not at 90 mph barreling down toward a corner , but there still were other cars within hitting distance.

Also I have had instruction like Nigel Mansel in the video , always benefited from it on the day but never been asked ' Do you know how to drive?' before they strap themselves in and put a lid on. And why no helmets?

Dunno what's more amusing, the vid or the thread! 🙂