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What a depressing experience that was.
... chicken fried eateries, cafes with sticky tables, boarded up shop fronts and plenty of To Let signs.
Brexit bonus with a side order of coronanomics.
Brexit bonus with a side order of coronanomics.
You can blame brexit for a lot of things, but the high street has been dying for 20 years, the internet has been the biggest hit, same as bricks and mortar bike shops and so on.
… chicken fried eateries, cafes with sticky tables, boarded up shop fronts and plenty of To Let signs.
No vape shops, pound shops and yet more coffee shops?
The high street needs to offer what people want, i.e. stuff they can't get online, which is why it is all barbers, coffee shops etc,.
Still, Sunak is focusing on it so must have some appeal to those old tory members.
No vape shops, pound shops and yet more coffee shops?
Estate agents, betting shops and charity shops.
didn't see any vape shops, although i wasn't looking for them.
Plenty of betting and Pound shops.
last time i was here was Dec 2019 and although the place wasn't exactly Oxford Street, it wasn't as run down and despotic looking as it is now.
Innernets killed it,
pre-covid I was all in favour of knocking half the town centre down and converting it to flats, the number of individual shops just isn’t required anymore, but they’re really trying to kick something off in my local town (Pontypridd) which is not exactly affluent, a book shop appeared over Covid, at the time I gave it 6 months but 18 months later it seems to be going from strength to strength,
The local business group had turned a couple of empty shops in to low rent physical shop fronts for Depop sellers, another ebay/internet seller has took on a physical shop.
Another (good) café has opened, and a small music bar has got going, I think there is a demand there but it’s not what it was, people going into that type of business need to have adapted and seen this need, rather than opening something that’s competing on cost from the internet or B&M etc.
That’s me being positive anyway, the local street rent will govern overall.
Still, Sunak is focusing on it so must have some appeal to those old tory members.
Ah, the high street... where you could wander carefree from shop to shop, idly looking at the goods on show in the window, maybe perchance to dally awhile and purchase a few. Perhaps even on for a pint of bitter and a read of the afternoon newspaper in a quiet corner of the local pub on the way home.
Through the lenses of those rosy tinted glasses, are the votes of pensioners coaxed.
which high street?
I agree with much of what is said above but there's a definite levelling up need. Down here in the affluent south the high street is thriving; I'm just about to walk into town to grab a sandwich and i can't think of a boarded up shop at all - as well as the expected chain stores like Boots, Holland and Barrett, Tesco local there's several cafes / eateries, a deli, an indie health food shop, an art materials supplier, hair salons, etc.
The kind of shop that you potter about in and so do the staff. "Can I help you?" they ask and you say "No thank you, I'm just looking," and they say "Well if you need anything just ask", and go back to picking things up behind the counter and giving them an absent-minded polish before putting them down carefully while you continue picking things up and giving them an absent-minded glance before putting them down carefully.
And they have nothing better to do and you have nowhere better to be on this quiet Monday afternoon in a quiet West Country town where the high street is comfortably filled with jewellery shops and charity shops and a book shop and a pet shop and a motor factors and a hardware store and two estate agents and all of them pottery shops.
Towards five o'clock you find yourself in the small family owned garden centre idly considering a small water feature for the corner of the garden that never gets any sun and you lose yourself for a while in the roll and splash of a miniature stream until you realise there are no other customers and the dog is looking at you meaningfully and you potter off home with your bag and mind as empty as they had been when you left the house that morning.
but the high street has been dying for 20 years, the internet has been the biggest hit
It's been dying for longer than that and you can probably lay a lot of that blame on the rise of in-town supermarkets. I remember doing the "weekly shop" as a kid with my granddad. Traipsing around town to the bakers, the greengrocer, the (gods help us) tripe stall, etc etc. It took half a day, we'd be out at sparrowfart and get back home at lunchtime just in time for me to catch Star Fleet. Why bother when you can slam through ASDA in 20 minutes?
The rot had set in Oop North a way before though. Swathes of East Lancashire were cotton towns, the mills were a massive source of employment and revenue. When they closed they were replaced with... nothing, we were heading towards being on our arse by the late 80s. The same is true of mining towns and most other working-class areas built on industry. We were already seeing urban decay on a large scale, the supermarkets were the hammer blow for the Northern high street.
It's not all pigeon coops, flat caps and warm beer though, some areas though are picking up. Niche businesses (I don't want to say 'artisan') are finding traction where I am here. We have most of what you'd want from a high street along with random things like a cupcake shop, a stained-glass window shop, a furniture restoration place, that sort of thing. There is, perhaps, light at the end of the tunnel but it's been a long time coming.
Maybe with the rise of Internet Shopping this is where the high street is going? More bespoke services alongside recreational spaces like parks or cafés. You might be able to order a picnic table online but you can't download somewhere to set it up. We cling on to our "historic Victorian arcade" but maybe the best thing to do is take a photo of it then level the bugger and build a garden.
Down here in the affluent south the high street is thriving; I’m just about to walk into town to grab a sandwich and i can’t think of a boarded up shop at all
Well in Wimbledon, pretty affluent south, there’s plenty of them.
You mean, they're common?
Our local high street is very vibrant. Completely changed since I've lived here, 25 years ago it was all butchers, bakers and candlestick makers etc. Now it's all experience based - lots of cafes with seating outside - almost looks continental in places. Quite a studenty area, so lots of customers wanting smashed avocado on toast when they should be saving half a million for a deposit on a flat...
Well, that's the other thing isn't it. If you're paying £1,200/month to rent a bedsit then you can't afford to leave the bastard.
pre-covid I was all in favour of knocking half the town centre down and converting it to flats, the number of individual shops just isn’t required anymore,
In my local town, a major new shops development was completed a couple of years before Covid hit, (actually 2016 - how time flies!) I'm going to guess it's now about 25% occupied. Problem is all the old high street is still standing, and mainly filled with tenants who didn't see fit to move. It was a stupid development, if they'd done a mix of residential and shops, (with some small units too, they're all massive) then there would have been a captive audience to use some of these businesses.
Down here in the affluent south the high street is thriving;
I've spent quite a lot of the last few years (pre-Covid anyway!) travelling for work, and the number of well known towns and cities that are absolute dumps is astonishing, especially Midlands and north England. But, yes, you are right, lots of places in the south look absolutely glowing by comparison.
East Midlands here. Not loads of boarded up shops but quite a few vape and betting shops. TBF at least 3 pubs have opened up since COVID and an indy pizza place hasassively expanded, so things are looking up.
One thing our local council has done, is give residents a bit of card with their council tax letter, that allows them to park for free after 3pm. Nice idea to increase footfall.
But you see a lot of shops moaning about council rates and rent on various social media platforms.
But, yes, you are right, lots of places in the south look absolutely glowing by comparison.
Well with regional inequality widening post Brexit, it's only going to get worse (up North).
which high street?
Chelmsford, Essex..... supposedly one of the nicer bits of Essex. I grew up in Thurrock, but managed to escape aged 18 and never returned. Folks went up market and bought a place in Chelmsford, my mum's hometown.
It used to be quite pleasant and had a decent variety of shops. Now it's mostly chicken places, cafes with crap coffee and "bars". Lots of large retail units are empty. Loads of rough sleepers which I never used to see and tons of litter. Lots of fat mums pushing buggies whilst screeching at their kids.
Next time I'll walk the dog in the other direction across the fields and towards the pub.
yet more coffee shops?
I like going out for coffee, I hate shopping, so more of this please.
pre-covid I was all in favour of knocking half the town centre down and converting it to flats,
This still needs doing, if only to lower GHG emissions. There's loads of flats going up in Reading, the local opposition often hinges on the strange doublethink of "there's only 100 parking spaces for 500 fats" and "what about the traffic this will cause?".
No you crettins, they're aimed at people who will live and work within a sensible commute distance of either.
Loads of rough sleepers which I never used to see
Definitely seem to be more of them about in the last few years (Cambridge).
there’s only 100 parking spaces for 500 flats”
the British public do seem very car orientated and blinkered in their approach to using anything other than a car.
Taking my old man tot the hospital this morning and he's complaining about the new bus stops and cycle lanes. FFS. Your lungs are FUBAR'd thanks in part to working in London and driving everywhere.
and although the place wasn’t exactly Oxford Street
that's just full of sweet shops now...
You mean, they’re common?
well, maybe not common, but shops that make good use of the things they find are all over the place.
If you need a case for your mobile phone then come to Northampton. Every other shop seems to be selling them. I have no idea how they all stay in business, the market must be saturated.
thisisnotaspoon
Free Member
I like going out for coffee, I hate shopping, so more of this please.
My local high street is doing well for small chain and independent coffee shops. Now a bloody Costa has just opened in amongst them all. Its not often I want a shop to fail, but I really hope this one does (or at least just doesn't harm the wee shops)
My local high street is doing well for small chain and independent coffee shops. Now a bloody Costa has just opened in amongst them all. Its not often I want a shop to fail, but I really hope this one does (or at least just doesn’t harm the wee shops)
We had a Costa open our local High Street a few years ago (Mill Rd Cambridge). Didn't last that long and it closed. All the independents are still here and more since then.
Loads of rough sleepers which I never used to see and tons of litter.
I don't want this to end up being another one of "those" threads, but the labour administrations of Blair and Brown pretty much had homelessness licked. Can't think what might have changed since then?
Farnham is packed with shops and shoppers.
Personally I prefer the rundown centre of Aldershot (so many Asian food shops and restaurants) or Guldford for guitars and clothes (Primark!!!! and TK Maxx).
Your High Street doesn't have a Tiso, Ellis Brigham, Nevisport, Mountain Warehouse, Blacks, Trespass and a bike shop?
Weird...
Your High Street doesn’t have a Tiso, Ellis Brigham, Nevisport, Mountain Warehouse, Blacks, Trespass and a bike shop?Weird…
And absolutely nothing of any use to the locals like a small supermarket, hardware store, post office etc...
Post Office - Check.
Supermarket - Check
Hardware Store - Check
scotroutes
Full MemberYour High Street doesn’t have a Tiso, Ellis Brigham, Nevisport, Mountain Warehouse, Blacks, Trespass and a bike shop?
Weird…
Shame there's no Mountain Spirit in your list there
crazy-legs
Full Member
And absolutely nothing of any use to the locals like a small supermarket, hardware store, post office etc…
He's talking about Aviemore remember. So all those shops are there supporting tourists that have turned up without the right kit
Don’t think it’s going to get better before it gets worse - I trade at a weekly market and everyone reckons they’re doing half to a third of last year or pre-COVID. Lots of people looking but not spending. I have a couple of online stores, but we’re doing less than half what I’d expect, particularly after Brexit kindly killed all my EU sales which was about 10% of my business. Going to be interesting to see what happens over Christmas - it could be carnage for retailers.
Another looming issue is the ‘adjustment’ in commercial property values and rents post Covid - particularly as a lot of councils have made significant investments to bolster balance sheets in response to austerity cuts from Westminister. Falls in revenues could result in increased business rates and council tax.
Shame there’s no Mountain Spirit in your list there
What was the one on the RHS just as you enter Aviemore from the South - used to do ski touring kit in the 2000s?
He’s talking about Aviemore remember. So all those shops are there supporting tourists that have turned up without the right kit
Buying yet more outdoor kit is a key part of any holiday to an outdoor centric area! N+1 for jackets etc.
He’s talking about Aviemore remember. So all those shops are there supporting tourists that have turned up without the right kit
I guessed there or Fort William...
It's the same in Ambleside, Windermere, Keswick etc. Loads of tourist shops, cheap outdoor shops but very little in the way of community shops - the kind of basic day-to-day essentials for local residents. Everything is geared to expensive/chintzy cafes and middle of the road outdoor clothing...
What was the one on the RHS just as you enter Aviemore from the South – used to do ski touring kit in the 2000s?
That was Mountain Spirit. Closed a few years ago. Caused by a mixture of online shopping, climate change and, frankly, just being too niche/expensive.
I forgot Cairngorm Mountain Sport in my list.
it's not a North/South thing, there's nice & grotty High Streets all over.
Tourist money is the key IMO - something (beach/mountains/whatever - sucks for the places that haven't really got anything) to draw people in and then stuff to do whilst they're there - cafes/bars/restaurants/galleries/knick-knack shops etc. Certainly smaller towns with less reliance on chain stores seem to be holding up better, flourishing even.
The other important thing is a strong community spirit - massive difference locally in the towns that have community/trader groups who organise things themselves that maybe the council used to do or fund - street festivals, carnivals, events etc, and those places that don't bother any more, because it means it's not [I]just[/I] about the tourists.
Farnham is packed with shops and shoppers.
Personally I prefer the rundown centre of Aldershot (so many Asian food shops and restaurants) or Guldford for guitars and clothes (Primark!!!! and TK Maxx).
Has Farnham picked up again then as it hadn't got through the great High Street shutdown completely unscathed when I have visited more recently. I know the big development is still ongoing where they knocked down those shops (shout out to Models of Distinction I used to visit as a young teenager) towards Swain and Jones end and next to the sports centre.
My local town keep on going on about sorting out the high street but you need some good ideas for a shop to get people in, luckily we have a few nice niche real ale places and the typical Birds bakery that cover the East Midlands. Not much else though, charity shops, a couple of coffee shops that aren't that great at all, as well as Costa that serve some pretty awful coffee compared to other Costas I have been to.
That was Mountain Spirit. Closed a few years ago. Caused by a mixture of online shopping, climate change and, frankly, just being too niche/expensive.
Spent a small fortune there in the 2000s!
Was a great shop - but we stopped coming when winters started getting too mild to climb.
I remember doing the “weekly shop” as a kid with my granddad. Traipsing around town to the bakers, the greengrocer, the (gods help us) tripe stall, etc etc. It took half a day,
Maybe he enjoyed a half day out. I used to shop on a Saturday morning for my Mum. On my bike, up to the shops, butcher, baker, greengrocer. Less than and hour. These days I can do my local shopping once a week in an hour. The "big shop" at the supermarket is a one in 3 or 4 week affair. Of course I'm lucky to have good local shops.
Maybe he enjoyed a half day out.
Was chatting to the manager of a local Charity shop who was saying they rotated the stock between shops in the region weekly as lots of retired people would come every week as part of their routine, so they tried to change the display weekly....