[Closed] The F1 2015 thread...

@ScottChegg - i posted that headline a few posts ago, although it was Daily Mail so perhaps not the most reliable - but if its on Sky it must be 😉

I can't see what's in it for Renault, a lot of expense for little gain. Likewise for Honda which is putting in a lot of money for a lot of negative publicity.

If F1 isn't careful it will become a 2 engine format, with tyres that fall apart, hardly an attractive sell to an audience.

Honda (and Renault) will get there though - Honda are roughly where other teams were at the same point in the development cycle - they just chose to do it in public...

McL may well be after the head of Honda in order that they can sell the improvements that will be coming to potential sponsors - they're facing a big shortfall in their funding next year and without a visible change at Honda, it's hard to sell the story that they will progress next year, particularly when you see that Renault haven't managed to catch up this year.

Honda (and Renault) will get there though

How? the rules have baked in Mercedes dominance for another season.

Plus Honda have no recent track record on making a decent F1 engine.

I didn't say how long...

By all accounts while the token system sounds like it limits development, the people in the know are saying that all the key differentiators in performance can pretty much be completely changed within the tokens available for a season.

As has always happened, so long as there's not a massive change in the engine rules, Merc will have fewer gains to make and over time the others will catch up. Not to mention that other engine companies will poach Merc engine people to 'buy' information on what they're doing.

the people in the know are saying that all the key differentiators in performance can pretty much be completely changed within the tokens available for a season.

Which isn't much help if you don't know which bits to change to what.

Even Johnnie Walker are slated to leave McL next year, after a very long relationship.

They are in such a bind even a Renault engine looks to be an upgrade, and the fact that Arai-san thinks his engine is better than the French one undermines his credibility a whole lot.

They are in such a bind even a Renault engine looks to be an upgrade, and the fact that Arai-san thinks his engine is better than the French one undermines his credibility a whole lot.

The engine (ICE) maybe,which is all that's been said - the rest sure as hell isn't

Arai-san thinks his engine is better than the French one undermines his credibility a whole lot.

He didn't say that or at least not what people have understood it to meant. It's very clear that Honda's issue is fundamental to the energy recovery, not the actual generation of it (through fuel) in the first place.

It's all a big let down and sad to witness. The 'sport' (experiment?) is being run by too many dinosaurs! At this rate Formula E looks the far better proposition for sponsors!

I have said all along that the Fom needs a change. Get rid of the corrupt bent used car salesman and put someone who will move the sport forward with a vision in the current century.

All those shady deals with the teams and Bernie must really stuff up any kind of notion that it is really a sport. I for one hate the fact they refer constantly to F1 as a show as opposed to motor SPORT.
CVC must be looking out for middle eastern investors pronto.

I like formula E.. its fresh with f1 drivers in f1 like cars and fan boost ( whats not to like )

That's it, despite what the purists might say Formula E is current and innovative, they are working it up well and no doubt before long they will only need one car for a race as well as gaining speed. It's a pity A1 GP couldn't have done as good a job on the marketing front, that had the potential to be a lot bigger.

FTA is the only way its going to gain traction with cheaper tickets to live events ( never watched an a1 race unfortunately) . A panini album wouldnt go amiss 🙂

What is FTA?

Fta I assume is free to air TV, rather than going down the road bennies currently on to pay per view, 100 a year to watch the marussia channel or 1000 for the Ferrari channel bennies business model with ridiculous fees for race promoters and broadcast rights means that'll never happen, and the teams were sold on the current model as a way of increasing their own revenur/budgets.

Needs a complete change of strategy to bring it back into the realms of Fta and make it more open to new entries, but that would also mean changes through all the other fia series as they have to keep f1 at the top. We got here because spanky handed over the keys to squinty all those years ago, wonder what his motivation was for that...

I like formula E

Still not without stupid rules and unfair penalties. When a winning driver (Sarazin?) can be penalised for an 'overuse of power' it makes a mockery of he result.

[i]'overuse of power'[/i] Don't know but wouldn't imagine that is hugely different than xx litres of fuel in any other race series?

Yep or stating that a car needs to have a minimum weight after the race.

Especially as with a new E series, I can see that what they don't want is cars stopping out on circuit because the batteries are flat (given people's misgivings about electric cars leaving them in the lurch) so in this specific case, it makes perfect sense as you consider one of its primary goals is to promote electric car use (and I'd be interested to know roughly what % of capacity is left in the batteries at the limit of allowed power use) unlike most other motor racing series which aren't there to promote hydrocarbon fuel as such.

"When a winning driver (Sarazin?) can be penalised for an 'overuse of power' it makes a mockery of he result."

There ought to be a rule like that for Bernie 😉

Don't know but wouldn't imagine that is hugely different than xx litres of fuel in any other race series?

And isn't it stupid?

Isn't it much better to wring every last volt from it as you pass the finish line? And if you use to much it goes into limp mode. Rather than the artifice of 49 seconds (why?) onto your time.

Rhubarb.

F1 could employ very similar, and simple, fuel rules like that too. Every car gets xx litres of fuel at the start of the race, and how you deploy it is up to you. Want to keep it "green"? Just reduce the fuel for each new season (a la MotoGP).

WEC is now stupidly complicated in this regards too

F1 already does. You have up to 100l to use in a race. You can use/put in less (as some already are at some tracks).

Formula E doesn't want cars running out of power because people's (justified or not) view is that electric cars don't go far on a charge and will leave them stranded so they don't want to have race cars running flat on TV. No doubt as electric road cars become more popular they'd be less concerned about that and will eventually drop the rule.

Formula E doesn't want cars running out of power because people's (justified or not) view is that electric cars don't go far on a charge and will leave them stranded so they don't want to have race cars running flat on TV.

Whereas having to stop halfway through the journey to ditch one car and get into a whole new one is really putting paid to that view 🙂

Exactly Bez - stupid!!! And expensive, having to run 2 cars per driver

Exactly Bez - stupid!!! And expensive, having to run 2 cars per driver

I see what you did there.

I have to confess ....... 😀

nemesis - Member
F1 already does. You have up to 100l to use in a race. You can use/put in less (as some already are at some tracks).

Nope, you missed what I was saying. The FIA could ensure that every car starts on the same amount, no option to run more/less. NASCAR does/did this

They decided against changing batteries for safety reasons.

FE : The reason for the car change is also to bring in some element of strategy and human error without the need for an extra 20 people for a tyre change - although i do think its not the greatest way of doing this -
they should go down the soft/hard tyre route thats working so well for F1 - oh no wait......................

ok ok , FE could do with some rule tweeks for sure, and wider softer tyres for pitstops with batteries that can last an entire race distance would certainly help - perhaps they should do indycar style and restrict the number of people to change tyres to 2 (or even 1!)

they could also do with looking at track layouts to improve overtaking chances using the "boost" buttons/ fan boost, for sure its great to see the cars around London but if the track is so restrictive that it doesnt allow overtakes.........

Personally - i'm lovin the WEC over F1 at the moment

(and they too adopt a penalty for fuel "overuse" in the race just like FE)

From what I gather the more efficent the engine the less fuel needed at the start and lower the fuel mass effect and hence faster round the track. Or conversely it can run at higher power for longer and hence faster round the track. I see why the new merc engine is about efficiency rather than power gains and also Lewis seemd to be quicker and slurp less juice than others although that might also be because he is in clean air.

I wonder how much the cities have to pay to host the F-E, I'm sure its a hell of a lot cheaper than filling Bernie's pockets. Obviously they dont have the Tilka designs but at least it is instantly recogniseable to everyone and possible capture the imagination of more people

i think someone has been reading our posts
http://readmotorsport.com/2015/09/11/race-power-increased-second-formula-e-season/?

So Renault will either "either exit or run their own team". I understood that engine suppliers had to agree to supply up to 3 teams if they were asked to do so (Honda having an exception because they are new).

So is this statement the first step towards a total exit?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2015/09/16/f1-fanatic-round-up-1609-3/

more of a signal of intent .. if they dont allow them to run with one team then they are offski.
They have mentioned before the return on supplying RBR was minimal as Renault didnt appear in the the title of the team. Or atleast thats what I read into their statement. I remember the teams williams-renault and vodafone-mclaren-mercedes so I do understand their point.
It would be shame if they left but maybe this is what is needed so bernie can buck up his ideas otherwise its going to be a two horse race with the championship switching between ferrari and mercedes works team.

So if Renault buy a big share of Lotus will it have a Merc or a Renault PU for next year?

if they stop supplying engines then probably a merc rebadged as inifiniti 🙂 . I forgot that actually it was Infiniti RBR so Renault did have a chance to promote the company name.

I don't think Mercedes would let them have such close access to their engines!

Rumour is that Manor could get the engines Lotus currently use and become a Merc 'B' Team.

McLaren would quite like Manor too I reckon - feeder team and also to allow more mileage/testing of the Honda PU (Poo unit).

If Renault buy Lotus, they'd use the Renault engine as suggested but many in the know reckon that Renault are working towards an exit rather than buying Lotus.

I thought manor and Mercedes had already done a deal?

If they have it hasn't been formally announced yet. Wouldn't be a surprise though.

So it'll be Ferrari Vs Merc to see how many times they can lap the Honda 🙄 Wow what a dull series.

What's the money on Red Bull pulling out soon as well?

So it'll be Ferrari Vs Merc...

Possibly - not sure how Ferrari are going to service 6 teams though! They are in line to supply...

Ferrari
Red Bull
Toro Rosso
Sauber
Haas F1
Manor (if Renault don't buy Lotus).

Bernie needs to be making some calls to make sure Renault stay.

or give honda teams the ability to use 10 engines a season. Its going to be a long 2016 season for everyone. I cant see any engine manufacturer jumping on the f1 bandwagon without 3-5 year preparation time.

Mehri out, Rossi in.

And Merhi recently announced he was quitting Formula Renault to concentrate on F1 - Bad timing! (or has run out of money?).