Forum menu
Renault may be respected but you clearly don't understand part of the reason behind why Renault are struggling so much in the current era.
Renault farmed out KERS to the teams and had no expertise in that area. As such, with the new engines where you can't separate the parts of the PU like that, they're still playing catch up.
Not to mention that if they're well respected, right now that doesn't look very well placed if they've come up with an engine that's worse than last year's (if RB are to be believed and that is a big if...).
Changing to hybrid was always going to be difficult as it's new technology - at F1 level at least - but it'll pay dividends which again, is exactly what F1 should be IMO. Right now they're 'vastly complex' because they're still new to it but that'll change - just look at engine (PU) changes - at the start of last year it was taking half a day. Now it's down to three hours or so. Similarly, the engines will level out as the designs and concepts get shared as people move teams (see Bob Bell is now working for Renault).
we all seem to forget that it is now only a show.. its not a sport / competition. Its an advertising board that goes around 50 or so laps.
I rather enjoyed the formula E .. admittedly 3/4 of the grid were ex f1 drivers but at least the result wasnt determined at the first corner and the winner wasnt the p1-3 on the grid. The race unfolds which adds to the excitement.
nemisis, I hope you're right, and it's probably wrong to judge from just one race, but it needs to get an awful lot better than Sunday's peformance!
Too right but every year has boring races and even Sunday was a million miles from many of the snoozefests of the early 2000s.
[quote=Trimix ]I also laughed at the sucking Brabham
Was actually a metaphorical as well as literal point - I was going to suggest that it was bad for F1, but that was the word which sprang to mind and I couldn't resist the pun. Fun as a novelty, but does anybody think an arms race of assisted downforce would have made exciting racing?
It's an interesting question - on the one hand, the cars would have been massively less affected by following another car which in theory would lead to better racing but the issue of pebbles, etc being fired out of the back of the cars would have been hard to solve and eventually I think we'd have got to a point where drivers would need g-suits to cope with the forces the cars would have generated.
Not to mention that it has absolutely no relevance to road cars...
Rear cannoned Brabham
[img] 
[/img]
Well you need them to be able to overtake each other. So you need less down force and braking that takes longer to slow the car down.
DRS has turned out to be a good thing in the end.
Also anything that adds strategy make it more interesting, so different compound tyres will do that. Will conserving fuel do the same thing ?
McLaren chassis is not that bad at all. Perez is on the better line and half a car length going into the corner yet Button exits the corner faster and ahead despite being off line.
That's what DC said, wasn't it - Perez got surprised by how late JB could brake into the corner and had clearly expected to be ahead
[i]Rear cannoned Brabham[/i]
😆
The thing is, we don't need things making into a level playing field - Look at the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1_Grand_Prix ]A1 Grand Prix[/url]. I initially thought it would be a really interesting approach but boy was it boring - there needs to be different cars with different capabilities (some better on certain tracks, others at different circuits). Yes, Mercedes do have a huge advantage at the moment but I don't see that there is anything to be gained by throttling their development just to help other teams catch up.
And is it just me or do the engines sound really odd this season? I quite liked the whine of last year's engine but they sounded all over the place at Melbourne.
Just watched 'Racing Legends' on BBC 2. Amazing!! I never really knew much about John Surtees- he always seems to be the British champ that gets overlooked for some reason, but the man is clearly a legend. Great stuff!
The problem with "johnny come lately" outfits like RB is that it's just a marketing scheme. They get tied into a shit engine package then if the results don't come, the marketing doesn't work and they'll run away - or threaten to unless things change to suit them.
There have always been lean periods for teams in F1 but the committed racers work hard at it nonetheless until fortunes turn around. Yes Williams, you.
fr0sty125 - MemberMcLaren chassis is not that bad at all. Perez is on the better line and half a car length going into the corner yet Button exits the corner faster and ahead despite being off line.
For me this was about the only excitement in the whole race and shows the promise of the McHonda
[i]The problem with "johnny come lately" outfits like RB[/i]
they've been about in various guises since 1997, when do they stop being "johnny come lately"?
At slowoldman I've worked for Williams for 15 years so been aware of the gentle decline since BMW so nice to be performing again race strategy aside
So, is Ron right that only a works team can win the World Championships?
[url= http://maldonadocrashingintothings.tumblr.com/?og=1 ]Have we done Pastor crashing into things?[/url]
they've been about in various guises since 1997, when do they stop being "johnny come lately"?
Not until I say so.
I've worked for Williams for 15 years so been aware of the gentle decline since BMW so nice to be performing again race strategy aside
It's great to see too.
Pastor crashing into things is a given...
[quote=nickc ]
The problem with "johnny come lately" outfits like RB
they've been about in various guises since 1997, when do they stop being "johnny come lately"?
If you're using that argument, why don't you go back to 1985?
I'm not sure a huge amount of Stewart/Jaguar DNA remained by 2006.
aracer, cos Stewart racing wasn't an F1 team till then...Maybe a bit arbitrary I suppose?
love the hasmaldanadocrashedtoday countdown 😆
Minardi was though
Er, Eddie Irvine fourth?!?!
[url= http://www.pitpass.com/53480/Wealth-intelligence-company-reveals-richest-F1-drivers ]Top ten richest F1 drivers[/url]
Er, Eddie Irvine fourth?!?!
He's a canny business man and never apologised for being in F1 just for the money. He even stayed racing in Japan because they paid better than F1 teams!
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31930827 ]The German Grand Prix not looking likely then [/url]
I think we did this one before, but it's worth repeating
Brilliant!
Looks like Giedo van der Garde got his money back and compensation. They reckon that Esteban Gutiérrez is next up for his money. It's a little mental that they signed race contracts for 2015 with FIVE drivers and took money from at least 4 of them without ever imagining they'd have to pay back the money.
the-muffin-man - Member
Er, Eddie Irvine fourth?!?!
He's a canny business man and never apologised for being in F1 just for the money. He even stayed racing in Japan because they paid better than F1 teams!
He also invested his money and built a multi national property empire.
I like this one though 😀 [url= http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1/news/article/669/9763658/bob-fernley-welcomes-christian-horners-demands-for-change ]Bob Fernley of Force India welcomes Horner "to the real world"[/url]
It is pretty funny that Red Bull are whinging that they're basically not dominant any more. Yes, they weren't AS dominant as Mercedes are currently but if they want parity they should do something else.
He also invested his money and built a multi national property empire.
I believe he also owns (or owned) a Bangor taxi company. Many fingers in many and varied pies... 🙂
It's a little mental that they signed race contracts for 2015 with FIVE drivers and took money from at least 4 of them without ever imagining they'd have to pay back the money.
Cashflow - I reckon they did what they needed to to stay afloat last year...
FIVE?
I thought it was worrying that they'd signed three for two seats and took money from all three. Shows they really are grasping/grabbing for cashflow with no thought to mid-term comeback.
I thought it was worrying that they'd signed three for two seats
Supposedly, they signed van der Garde, Sutil, Gutiérrez, Ericsson and Nasr for the seats. I'd guess given Sutil is quiet that he'd not paid for the seat yet.
Cashflow - I reckon they did what they needed to to stay afloat last year...
That's understandable. The stupidity to expect it wouldn't come back on them is inexcusable though. If I was a Sauber shareholder, Monisha Kaltenborn would be on her way out for such a spectacular lack of awareness. I can only suppose that in the past teams have ridden roughshod over drivers and that van der Garde took everyone by surprise. It'd explain why he's saying his F1 career is now over.
I rewatched the race last night on some beeb channel.
It was just like almost every race over the past 5+years.
The only difference is the engines are starting to sound like they are powered by rubberbands.
I guessed then- they are going to keep going until they have a 1.0 petrol engine aren't they. Thats the 'pinnacle' of F1/engineering.
A 1.0 petrol engine with a huge hybrid I bet by 2025.
Whoopie-doo.
Bring back V12's - its racing not a race to mpg.
Perhaps they did expect it to come back on them, and just accepted the cost implications (as in get 8million now, pay 10-12million back in the spring) in order to keep the team afloat for the last 6/9/whatever months? Poor form if they did.
Nice looking car though- like the colours 🙂
Very easy to recreate in Lego.
I guessed then- they are going to keep going until they have a 1.0 petrol engine aren't they. Thats the 'pinnacle' of F1/engineering.
This is the way all cars are going though.
The pinnacle of F1/engineering doesn't have to be based on the internal combustion engine. 100+ years ago steam engines were the pinnacle but we don't race those!
I watched the Formula E race at the weekend and there was more racing in that than the F1 race. And with the Formula E regs being opened up a bit more next season I do think F1 will have a serious rival in 4 or 5 years.
The only difference is the engines are starting to sound like they are powered by rubberbands.
They missed a trick with the turbo cars. They needed to sound like 1988 McLaren Hondas instead of these insipid creations.
Also, do a google search for engine noise of a 1995 Ferrari or 2001 Williams BMW and you'll hear exactly what Hora means.
I'm all for fuel saving in F1, but the focus is wrong. Why are we saving 3mpg per lap when it takes 24 large lorries and a couple of 747s to transport each team around the world for twenty races?
But they have to entice engine manufactures to make the engines.
Who have to sell the idea to the shareholders and public.
That's why they are hybrid and smaller and fuel efficient.
Why are we saving 3mpg per lap when it takes 24 large lorries and a couple of 747s to transport each team around the world for twenty races?
Because this is what the manufacturers want - there is a direct trickle down to road cars. Unfortunately V12s have no relevance in todays car market.
If we went back to 3 ltr engines the car makers would leave and teams would buy engines from people like Cosworth.
..and the big money would disappear!
I do get that...but we've massively complex - and expensive - power units that cost three times as much as they did in 2012.
Today, we have Ferrari, Renault, Honda and Mercedes supplying engines.
In the last twenty five years, we've had Peugeot, Subari, Yamaha, Ford, Porsche, BMW, Judd, Lamborghini, Toyota and even Subaru who've decided to turn away from F1.
The sport needs to find ways of getting more manufacturers involved.