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The Kangoos have different charge options. There's an 11kW AC base model and a 22kW AC 80kW DC option. 7kW sounds more like Opel, Peugeot, Citroën range which charge at 7kW AC 100kW DC with an 11kW AC option.
Perhaps your work only had 7kW chargers.
Perhaps your work only had 7kW chargers.
Nah, just cheapskates! One of the biggest branded fleets in the UK and they've barely started installing 7kW charges in workplaces, they normally fit a 7kW charger at home to charge the work van and employees without a drive are reliant on public fast charging.
Timely... Was looking at Peugeot Travellers earlier and the e-version seems to be possible cheaper 2nd hand than the diesel. I could be missing a key differentiator but want obvious. Still out of price range but encouraging.
Having had a look over a Buzz I was surprised at how far back the dash and front seats are. In the old T2 one of the reasons there was so much space was that front seats were right up front. At a guess it's for safety reasons because EV drive trains don't take up much space and the batteries can go under the floor (like the T2 engine). It means that the back is not as long inside as I'd expected, pretty wide though. A lot of vehicle for the interior space was my verdict. Checking volumes the Citroën e-Jumpy is much bigger on the inside whilst only a little longer.
The Buzz looks great though, a proper fashion statement for the image conscious.
Checking volumes the Citroën e-Jumpy is much bigger on the inside whilst only a little longer.
The Buzz looks great though, a proper fashion statement for the image conscious.
All well and good, but the e-dispatch's range doesn't quite compare.
The reason there's interest in the buzz isn't just cos it's 'cool' but cos it's also got a half decent range.
From a using a van as a daily POV, which is my interest, the interior of the Citroen doesn't get exactly glowing reviews, whereas the buzz cargo is a relatively nice place to be.
330km for the Citroën 75kWh and 414 for the Buzz 77kWh. That's similar to the difference between the two Zoés I've had, and yes it makes a lot of difference on runs needing charges as we charge with about 50km remaining in case there's a problem with the first charger we get to.
Citroën calling it a 75kWh when the useable battery capacity is 65kWh is naughty. They con people in the same way with their cars. When they launched the Peugeot 208 50kWh people assumed it was comparable with the Zoé 52kWh. In fact the Zoé really does have a useable capacity of 52kWh but the Peugeot is 46kWh.
The E-Expert 75kwh are actually somewhere around 65 usable. I never managed to put more than 65 in so might actually be 10% less than that with charging losses? The Buzz is 77kwh usable.
I have gone from struggling to get 2.7-3m/kWh summer to 3.2-4 in the Buzz.
The range calculator works and is always accurate when you do tests on quotes Vs travelled. It doesn't lose 10 miles every time you get out and back in again.
It has never crashed with a red traction battery error (yes the expert did this in the first 1000 miles)
We didn't get it as a fashion statement. I really liked having a white panel van that was actually electric. It didn't even get a green plate 🤣 However my partner really likes it, and loves driving it so that's good. She hated the Peugeot. Mostly because she couldn't trust it on range/not to break.
The difference between a 130 mile vehicle and a 250 mile one is huge when you don't have off street parking.
There are £250 Buzz leases available now 🤷
But aye if you want something that looks like a big manly van wagon just hang on for the Transit Custom or the VW badged version of it.
Hmm, intersting, so the Stelantis EVans have the same issues as the 208. 🙁
Well I've just had a go in the eKangoo we've recently got at work. Only a few miles, but it's really nice to drive. Range is up to 185 miles I think, so probably a realistic 150? I'll definitely have one of these when they become available second hand and a couple of years old.
Not one of these works ones specifically, because doubtless they'll be as knackered as the diesel vans they replaced. 🙄
"There are £250 Buzz leases available now"
Hmm... Mebbe I need to get looking again
Stables were the cheapest Buzz Cargo lease's when I was looking 👍 Seemed nice too, on the ball and replied to any questions fast.
Had a quick poke at select leasing, basic buzz cargo was about 360/Mon +vat - 24mon, 15k miles per year.
Edging towards affordable if I assume 15k a year is going to get more and more expensive on my 160k diesel caddy 😑
Range is up to 185 miles I think, so probably a realistic 150?
Totally depends on the car and the driving style. Urban driving is way more economical than motorways. Lots of cars will beat the official range with ease in urban driving, some won't.
new sprinter with the largest battery pack (113kwh) allegedly does 300 miles on a charge
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42775886/2024-mercedes-benz-esprinter-revealed/
pricey though.
There's a Nissan Dealer on the Leaf FB group selling two new (delivery miles only) 73 plate Townstar vans for £20k+VAT each, rather than the usual £35k+VAT...
Got a link?
We had the same experience as Giant Scum - utterly pointless. We also has a look at the ID Buzz, but that's not great either.
In 2020 we reserved 4 build slots for the Cybertruck, so we're doing research on load etc as to whether keep them or sell the slots on. So far it looks like they should be OK and we already have a bunch of Tesla chargers installed. Lets see what other car brands do to compete with the Cybertruck i suppose?
That 190 mile range on the Ford fully loaded and in cold weather will drop like a stone. Nowhere near good enough for real world applications i'm afraid.
Got a link?
It's a private group (UK Nissan Leaf owners group) but the guy's name is Simon Dando of Fish Brothers Nissan, apparently in Swindon.
Bit of a thread resurrection....
I'm doing the man-math around a VW ID Buzz Cargo as my personal daily - I might be just about able to justify it if I'm feeling brave.
Does anyone have one? Thoughts?
Also, insurance...
I've a VW caddy at the mo, which is classed as a car (it's a Kombi 5 seater), and so insurance is around £500ish. Just done a quote on a Buzz cargo and it's the thick end of £1300...
I do drive for work - visiting places - for which I get milage, so my understanding (and current situation) is that I have business use on my policy, which adds a bit, i think. Do I need it on there?
TBH at £1300, the man maths falls down a bit.
Kia PV5 UK launch is at the CV show on 29th April so I'd at least hang fire to see prices, range, weights etc. I'd imagine the maths will be better than a Buzz.
Yeah I seen the PV5 - looks cool, though I suspect in a trim that's 'nice' (as it'll be my only vehicle) it'll top current 2nd hand Buzz prices (£35k-ish)?
Certainly won't be buying owt in the next couple months but starting to consider it. just surprised at the insurance as much as anything!
Could have bought a leccy Vivaro Life Elite, less than 6 months old, for the same its just cost me for a three year old diesel.
Problem, range is about 100 miles.
Considering the amount of space there is in a van, the range is seriously poor on them. Aware vans for actual work tend to need all the space but surely improving the range would mean more vans would be sold...
I really wanted an ev Berlingo/partner, but the range is so poor that I just stopped looking...
We had a '75' kWh E-expert/Vivaro for two years then switched to a Buzz Cargo, that is now also two years old except we own this one with no plans to change.
It has been great, range is 200-270 miles, reliability has been great, it's nice to drive. It's owned by my business, insurance is through direct line who were a lot cheaper than some @ £500ish I think. It's coming up for renewal in August.
I think you are right about it being nicer at a pre-reg price than a PV5, it really comes down to load space. The Kia has a much bigger cargo area, but less range unless they have really improved efficiency. My long term in the Buzz is 3.1m/kWh but that's over three winters and only two summers. We have had a Kia Soul since 2020 which has been faultless, so I'm sure the PV5 will be great too. We just don't need the extra load space so perfectly happy to keep the buzz.
I do drive for work - visiting places - for which I get milage, so my understanding (and current situation) is that I have business use on my policy, which adds a bit, i think. Do I need it on there?
Try direct line. They were competitive for me when I had a van as a daily with occasional work use. Also were happy to transfer NCD between car and van policies, which a lot of insurers won't. They assume a mix of SD&P used as well as business.
I've just taken the plunge on a cheap VW ID Buzz cargo deal, moving from my current caddy as ICE van prices are ridiculous at the moment, almost twice my current payment. Really looking forward to the Buzz, but hadn't thought about the extra insurance cost, so will have to iook into this 😳
Nice, you will like it. For us direct line were dramatically cheaper, about half the price of some, and it went through the huge insurance hike era without too much increase
Where are these 'cheap' ID Buzz Cargo deals, just asking for a friend?
I got mine on central UK vehicle leasing. A 24m personal lease on a commerce with about £1k of options with 1 payment up front and 8kpa was £400 per month. It's a bit more expensive now but still much cheaper than replacing my petrol caddy on a like for like lease.
Stables tend to be the go to, not sure what the free charging offer is, but it could be handy
I thought I'd post this as it might be of interest.
I've had a 2 year old Peugeot e expert for 3 months now. I needed a replacement van and the lower running costs appealed. Unsurprisingly the driving experience is night and day compared to the 150k 17 yr old vivaro it replaced.
My choices were limited to the Stellantis variants. Transits in budget are all L3, buzz is too small and the rest have pitiful (sub 100 mile) range.
I mainly do local journeys, 6000 miles a year, not much fast (over 40mph!) driving as there is too much traffic round here.
Roof rack permanently attached, ladder on occasionally.
Over 1676 summer miles it's working out at 3.3 miles/kWh. At 6.5p a mile its 31% of the cost my 30mpg vivario .
Obviously it'll be more expensive in the winter but so far I'm very pleased.
Driving the manual diesel car feels like a chore in comparison. I used to be a bit of a petrolhead too!
@slugabed What has the practical max range been on it, semi-loaded (i.e. not totally full, but not barebones)? Is it rated for towing as well?
Also, agree that EVs are a leap abpove ICE vehicles. I miss the Kia for that reason, despite loving my Dispatch
@slugabed What has the practical max range been on it, semi-loaded (i.e. not totally full, but not barebones)? Is it rated for towing as well?
Also, agree that EVs are a leap abpove ICE vehicles. I miss the Kia for that reason, despite loving my Dispatch
I have the lwb 75kW battery version. I think the quoted wltp range is 206 miles.
When fully charged the van suggests the range is 213 miles. The 3 months of data I have suggest I would get 231 miles from a full charge.
However it's summer, and I think my enforced driving style helps. Most driving is reasonably flat, sub 40mph with regen on. With the amount of traffic my acceleration and braking is gentle. No real opportunity to floor it. I don't use eco mode, my driving style probably replicates it but with the bonus that I can get up hills! Eco mode limits the power and steep hills aren't fun.
At a guess I'd say payload is 30% on average.
I don't know about towing.
It'll be interesting to see what a full years figures look like. I based my decision on 2.5 miles/kWh so all good so far.
Who are people using for electric van insurance? My car is costing me under £500, but so far quotes on a PV5 are coming in at £1600+
£400 on my dirty diesel van.
Not much more than that on my Caddy (which is registered as a car...) - if it was registered as a van it was looking like £800.
However, It's also £345 to tax (Kia include tax in their price), £90 to fill up (about £15-18 for the kia for equiv miles), needs an MOT and servicing every year (Kia won't during the lease), and costs me £9 every time i drive into the city (the kia won't...). So, I'll take the hike in insurance 😉
Adrian Flux came in at £1200, but I'll keep hunting for cheaper.
I'm using Direct Line, but moving to Aviva on renewal as about £100 cheaper at £450. Not bad on a 210kw van that's valued at a ridiculous £47k 🤣
If £450 and £550 are what you're working on, I definitely need to do more searching hahahah
Our Buzz Cargo was £685 this year, up from £504. No change from our end. Didn't have time to shop around though so perhaps it could have come down. Commercial insurance
Got it to under £700 for a 'platinum level insurance' on the same insurance co as my partner, so with a multi-car policy hopefully it'll go lower.
Shopping around definitely worth it!
Got my PV5 Cargo Plus LR now. Have to say it's quite a change from a 2011 Caddy... The almost self-driving stuff is a bit mind-blowing on A-roads and through towns, I'm sure I'll relax into it at some point!
Load space is really useable, it's comfy inside, I'm a happy-chappy.
3.5 miles/kwh currently on mixed urban/motorway/A-road, in 5-8 degree temps, so roughly 200 mile range.
Tesco insurance seem to view electric and diesel similarly it seems.
I've a diesel partner paying 324 with 7years NCB
Just insured our electric one today. Like for like top specs (lipstick on a pig right?) with 0ncb as I need to keep the other car on the road for time being -354.
Possibly with the Kia it's limited data giving you silly costs ?
Diesel van insurance has gone wild also it seems. I was quoted 700 odd on an nv400 last year with mirrored ncb.
Yeah fairly likely. Ended up getting it for under 600 via admiral multi car, but that's 10 months not 12, so 600 quid - only a bit more than my previous