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I see no reason why other manufacturers can’t with these big cars.
I think they were designed as ICEs first. That seems to be the key factor. My Hyundai has masses of space under the bonnet, but stuff is all spaced out - the inverter/motor block seems to be mounted to the same points that the engine would be i.e. in the middle up high, which gets in the way of the frunk space. Also, the bonnet is opened the traditional way and it might be difficult to redesign.
Compared to ..?
I think the Ioniqs 5 and 6 are probably comparable, but I reckon my Ioniq Electric is significantly more efficient but of course they don't make them any more.
Just seen this very, very good deal on a Leaf (sorry Molgrips).
https://centralukvehicleleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/nissan/leaf/100105/110kw-n-connecta-39kwh-5dr-auto
Bloody hell. If you commute more than about 30 miles a day that's essentially free.
Everyone’s used to saying ‘oh well, they never get the official figures’
I'm not finding it too hard to beat the wltp figures in the merc now the weather is starting to warm up a bit.
I’m not finding it too hard to beat the wltp figures in the merc in this warmer weather.
Oh, interesting. On what sort of driving?
Last time I read a group test, the discrepancy between WTLP and tested varied loads - the Porsche Taycan actually exceeded it IIRC on the same test that some came in at 75%
https://www.carwow.co.uk/electric-cars/efficient#gref
Seems to suggest that. Standard model 3 would be approaching the top of efficiency tables in class.
Oh, interesting. On what sort of driving?
Free flowing town and country stuff in 20/30/40mph speed limited roads mostly, but only when the outside temp is >15c
If there's much high speed (60mph+) distance then obviously the efficiency drops.
I'm pleasantly surprised by how efficient the merc can actually be when conditions are right, and equally surprised about how inefficient it can be when conditions are wrong, there's such a massive disparity. I'd love to know whats driving the inefficiency, I reckon it must be related to the heating system because the efficient/inefficient occasions correlate with when it's warm or cold out.
Bloody hell. If you commute more than about 30 miles a day that’s essentially free.
it isn't. it's £260/month, which is about £12.50 per working day (250 per year). That buys you pretty much 2 gallons of fuel per working day, and if your current car only does 15mpg (minus whatever the electricity costs), you're unlikely to be in the market for a small, slow ev.
Not sure there’s much out there more efficient than the Model 3, and the new one is even better.
The Model 3 coupled with Tesla infrastructure is pretty unbeatable IMO for long distance driving. I drove my M3P nearly 500 miles from Newcastle to St Ives and only had to stop twice for 20 mins a piece, there was a third stop but that was for me not the car!
I think the Ioniqs 5 and 6 are probably comparable,
In his 1000km challenge Bjorn Nyland found the Ioniq 5 to be less efficient than all the Tesla Model 3 and Model Y variants and the Ioniq 6 to be less efficient than the Model 3 and comparable to the Model Y
Do you have the numbers? I don't want to watch a whole video to get them...
Just search for Ioniq 5 and 6 1000km challenges on his channel and jump to nearly the end of the vids where he shows his spreadsheet.
Decided against the Audi. Got a test drive in a Polestar Performance on Saturday with a view to a new purchase available in March
This page https://www.zerofy.net/ev-database.html says it's based on his numbers and has the I6 at almost the same as the Model 3 but slightly better, in winter. At the end of his I6 video the efficiencies are quite close but the temperatures are different. But anyway that's what I meant by comparable.
That's more like it, STR. Long range single motor is WLTP 655km or roughly double that e-Tron you were looking at.
I was surprised how inefficient the Ioniq 5 is in real life. 4.2 kW/m average in summer for a commute which is 30 miles: half m/way and half country roads, and that’s eco mode, gentle driving. Down to 3.1 kW/m in winter. It once struggled above 2.3 on a long m/way journey, though it was well below -5degC for most of that journey. It’s all good though coming from a 280bhp 4wd diesel 😂
Bjorn publishes his results - they're in the "TB Test Results" sheet on this google drive link
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1HOwktdiZmm40atGPwymzrxErMi1ZrKPP
Down to 3.1 kW/m in winter
That surprises me. Then again - today on a 3C morning I whacked the heat up in the Leaf to 21C and the energy consumption for the HVAC was 3kW for the first half of the short trip, because the cabin was cold and I hadn't pre-heated it. On top of that, it was slow traffic - so the kWh consumed was high but the miles travelled was low.
That kind of thing would make it look really bad, whereas a traffic-free motorway trip would make it look much better even in the same temps.
Normally I have the heating on 17C. In the Leaf, that is pretty warm if you don't have the AC on as well; as soon as you put the AC on and the air dries out, you need more heat to feel comfortable. But whilst the Leaf steams up like a bastard when you do this, the Hyundai does not.
Yeah, the, the 2.2kW/m trip was a 200mile family trip, 95% on motorway at 75mphish. Plus as it was Baltic the temp dial obviously needs wacking up to 24deg (wife logic) plus all 4 seats had electric heating on the whole way (including the youngest still with a child seat getting no benefit 😂)
Already much improved economy the last couple of days with the warmer weather.
"motorway at 75mphish"
Yep, that'll do it. As drag goes up with the square of speed the difference between 65,70,75 is quite significant.
The problem is that peak efficiency in most EVs is far slower than you'd every want to drive on a motorway, so it becomes a game of "how slow are you willing to go". My approach varies depending on the journey. If I'm eeking it out to avoid a service station charging stop then I'm happy at 60. If I can get back home with no worries then it's just avoiding speeding tickets that is the limit.
At the end of his I6 video the efficiencies are quite close but the temperatures are different. But anyway that’s what I meant by comparable.
Yeah just ignore the Ioniq 5 you mentioned in your original post why don't you.
temp dial obviously needs wacking up to 24deg
Are you road-tripping or baking?
Less baking...more "proving bread" with those temps!
STR.... The 2024 performance model? Nice..!
It won't get the miles that the new lrsm (rear wheel drive) will get..but should be at the Audi...
DrP
I discovered that my insurance is going to be upwards of £1,200 outside the company car scheme so EVs are back on the table.
Dropped into a Skoda dealer for a test drive in an Enyaq yesterday. Car seems well built and comfortable but OH MY GOD the software for everything was terrible. The biggest complaint against Tesla is that stuff is buried in menus, but it's nothing compared to the VAG implementation. And this was apparently the newest version.
I drove randomly away from the dealership for 15 minutes, then asked the sales drone sat in the passenger seat to stick the post code in so we could see how good the sat nav was. After 5 minutes he'd finally figured out where to put it, and he was still trying to turn on the voice guidance when we got back.
Also - didn't go above 60mph and it only managed 1.7 miles per kWh, giving a real world range of just 150 miles. This is a £50,000 car... My Model 3, despite being a panicky quivering mess on motorways thanks to Autopilot, did 4.1 miles/kWh on the journey there.
Trying the ID7 on Friday, and have a Mach-E for the weekend. If the software on the ID7 is from the same team that did the Enyaq, it's going to be a hard "no". Polestar is unfortunately out, as for some reason they are astronomically expensive on the company scheme.
Much that I hate His Muskiness, Tesla seems to have the powertrain and battery sorted.
STR…. The 2024 performance model? Nice..!
Yes, with Pilot and Plus Packs. 469bhp, 4s to 60, Brembo brakes, Ohlins shocks, 352 mile range
didn’t go above 60mph and it only managed 1.7 miles per kWh
Something is clearly up there - did you spend a lot of time waiting in traffic? It's certainly not what people are reporting on the internet.
Are you road-tripping or baking?
not by me! My side stays at 18degC all year. The OH and kids seem to think that colder weather means the heater dial needs turning up… I’ve tried, lord I’ve tried… Though… it is quite nice to pre-heat to 22nin the morning and then drop down to 18 when I get in.
Much that I hate His Muskiness, Tesla seems to have the powertrain and battery sorted.
Thing to remember is Tesla has over 140,000 employees and Elon Musk is just one of them. Clearly you think he is the devil incarnate if you are prepared to consider cars from an OEM that has actually killed people due to cheating emissions regs.
So wait, all VW is culpable for the emissions scandal but Musk is the only **** in Tesla?
So wait, all VW is culpable for the emissions scandal but Musk is the only **** in Tesla?
Musk, not any other Tesla board member or employee, was mentioned by name as the reason the poster was reluctant to consider another Tesla. I'm sure the % of a$$holes in Tesla reflects the % of them in the population. I simply questioned why he has a problem with Musk when he is happy to consider a car from a company that has cheated emissions regs, the increased emissions from those vehicles statistically having killed thousands of people. And yes VW as a company were held responsible and fined billions with multiple executives receiving prison sentences which to me points to institutionalised corruption. Lets also remember that VW have been fined multimillions twice by the EU for forming a cartel with BMW and Daimler to fix the price of steel and to delay the deployment of emssions reducing technologies. Personally speaking VAG will never receive another penny from me.
Trying the ID7 on Friday, and have a Mach-E for the weekend. If the software on the ID7 is from the same team that did the Enyaq, it’s going to be a hard “no”. Polestar is unfortunately out, as for some reason they are astronomically expensive on the company scheme
do you have an option to try BMW ? I looked at most of the ones you mention and ended up with an i4 40.
Winter range was 280ish, it's now back to about 320 and was doing more like 340 back in August when I got it
Polestar is unfortunately out, as for some reason they are astronomically expensive on the company scheme
Their shaky finances made them crazy expensive to lease co. my company deal with. The same goes for Fisker.
I simply questioned why he has a problem with Musk when he is happy to consider a car from a company that has cheated emissions regs, the increased emissions from those vehicles statistically having killed thousands of people.
VW is just business innit, whereas Musk is a ****.
@Flaperon
I've had both Tesla model 3 (2019-2022) and VW ID3 (2022- yesterday) Plus points of the ID3 were nothing much, except the matrix headlights, absolutely amazeballs. Plus point of the model 3, absolutely everything, except the headlights. I've just been out and bought another model 3 even though it's a bit impractical for someone who's an outdoors type. I definitely wouldn't want another VW ID until someone guaranteed me that the infotainment system was working properly.
I simply questioned why he has a problem with Musk when he is happy to consider a car from a company that has cheated emissions regs
Because Musk is still a massive dick with a very public profile and he is still lying through his teeth about his cars. VW is going to be squeaky clean from now on.
If Tesla were the only EV that was any good, I'd get one. But they aren't, so I won't.
To save having to dredge through 146 pages …..
Does anyone have any real world experience of the ID buzz. Taking one for a test drive on the weekend , but probably not long enough to gauge real world mileage etc.
Would be using for work as well as family purposes , so will need to load the boot up with a couple of hundred kilos of gear at times
VW is just business innit,
Ah I see. So that makes all the illegal activity OK then.
Does anyone know of a site you can search cars by p11d value, going to look at electric option. Thanks
no experience but interested to hear how you get on. 3 kids and a dog severely limit EV choices and the Buzz worked out surprisingly cheap on my company car scheme, but when i looked a bit closer, the back seats looked really uncomfortable and didn't have the flexibility of the newer long wheelbase version that's on its way. not been inside one though. all based on pictures/videos
If you were looking for a secondhand EV on a PCP deal, probably in September, then what would you guys suggest?
Long range would be nice but not absolutely essential (I'm kind of in the process of giving up my career as a musician, there's still the possibility of 250 mile round trips for gigs from time to time)
I'm not into cars at all so don't care how fast it is. Something of a reasonable size I guess. I've been looking at Tesla 3's. Can get a 3 year old one for about £300 per month, which would be the upper limit of what I'd want to pay. Obviously they have a decent range, there market has moved on such much since we last looked a few years ago that I'm unsure of what other offerings there are now. Kia eNiro maybe?
there’s still the possibility of 250 mile round trips for gigs from time to time
Bear in mind that you don't need a 250 mile range car for a 250 mile trip. Recharging on the way is nowhere near as problematic as some people like to make out.
Model 3s are in the 'expensive car' tier. I just bought a Hyundai Ioniq Electric for £11k which is great - it does recharge slowly though but you have to ask if 45 minutes saved once in a while is worth ten grand extra.
I'm not sure about PCP though. They offered me a PCP deal at the dealer which was around £300/mo with a sizeable balloon payment, but I borrowed the money from Tesco bank at a far lower interest rate - I'm paying £212/mo and I'll own the car at the end of it. I think finance companies are assuming the market will plummet, but that doesn't bother me as I'll keep it for at least 5 years.
Electric car mayhem 😉
Is the long range essential or just for the occasional gig? I like the Niro and looked at the EV and also contemplated the plug in hybrid as for a lot of my daily driving it had just enough electric range and for my longer trips it had the petrol. But I got a cracking deal on a full EV so took the plunge (a Cupra Born, not everyone’s cup of tea). Not a huge fan of Teslas myself. But that’s just me, they do have good range/charging/networks. Will you be charging at home? When looking my EV short list, for various reasons, was Hyundai kona, Kia Niro, Cupra Born and Renault Megane.
We'll potentially be charging at home..... there's also the possibility of free charging at uni (hopefully I'll be doing a PhD from September).
The long range thing is a funny one, as I say, it's kind of occasional, but can be 2 or 3 nights per week doing 200+ mile round trips literally all over the country. At the minute I've not got much booked in, it's all a bit up in the air really. I can likely borrow a none electric car for some of these instances though.
I'll have a look at the Ioniq....I'd got in my mind that they were really expensive? Saw a Mégane I think, at Tesco the other day that I liked the look of. My wife of course has a shortlist of the massive Audi, the Mustang and the Jaguar iPace 🤦
I’ll have a look at the Ioniq….I’d got in my mind that they were really expensive?
There's the older Ioniq Electric, which is the older car that I have with 190 miles of range; then there's the unrelated Ioniq 5 and 6 (don't ask what happened to Ioniqs 2, 3 and 4) which are newer. The Ioniq Electric is extremely efficient but charges very slowly; the 5 and 6 are less efficient but are essentially the fastest charging cars if you find a charger that can provide the power.
Or you can buy my Leaf 🙂 110-150 miles of range but cheap...
try Comcar.co.uk
You can input salary etc to see effect on take home pay of various choices. IIRC you can input mileage etc and allowance if it’s an option to see if car vs allowance is best
For reasons I still can't fathom there's so much utter bollocks on here about Teslas. Had one for three years, it's great. Someone the other day said with authority that you have go in a sub-menu to turn the interior lights on. You don't, the lights themselves are the buttons, but Musk is a bell end so it must be true.
I also won’t buy anything for VW or from Mr Musk. Which is a shame as I like the ID Buzz and the Porsche Taycan…C’est la vie.
I still can’t fathom there’s so much utter bollocks on here about Teslas
I agree.
I went for a test drive in a M3 and a MY - both were really nice cars and no issues to use any controls even on a first drive. If the M3 was a hatchback rather than saloon there's a good chance I'd have got one.
For reasons I still can’t fathom there’s so much utter bollocks on here about Teslas
Well...you and "the ex" have one.... Makes you think doesn't it..... 🧐🧐🧐🤨🤔
DrP
I also won’t buy anything for VW
That seems odd to me. Some execs were evil, but they don't run the company any more. I doubt that they are just brushing it under the carpet and carrying on as normal, purely because the level of scrutiny would be so high. What they did was so high profile their only option is to be whiter than white from now on.
For reasons I still can’t fathom there’s so much utter bollocks on here about Teslas.
Its because some people hate Musk so try to influence others not to buy the product by criticising it in any way they can think of including utter bollocks. People don't realise that without Tesla EVs would be 10 years behind where they are now. Politicians are OK to ban ICE and set ZEV mandates despite the foot dragging and negative lobbying from legacy OEMs because Tesla have proved EVs are a practical proposition.
What they did was so high profile their only option is to be whiter than white from now on.
VAG are repeat offenders so I'm going to bookmark this one.
Its because some people hate Musk so try to influence others not to buy the product by criticising it in any way they can think of including utter bollocks.
Musk is a crypto fascist hellbent on domination and ultimate control with the aid of his tech buddies such as Peter Theil and his ilk, the freak has been believing his own hype for years and the sooner his self driving car drives him into a concrete freeway barrier the better.
Dunno bout his cars, the only Tesla I’ve seen in real life (rural Galloway) is a p100d with the lift up rear doors in local tesco
I have friends who work for Tesla and SpaceX. They love the work, but hate the job. Most are clinging on for stock options and will quit ASAP. They work extremely long hours and are genuinely afraid for their jobs such is the cult of EM that there’s a queue of people who want to work there. Musk is the Rockafella of his age, making his billions by leveraging the taxpayer, squeezing the workforce, skirting regulation and paying as little personal tax is he can get away with.
Bill Gates might have made billions, but he didn’t do it by shitting on the little guys and leveraging huge tax breaks to do it.
That’s why I don’t like Musk. Musk didn’t start Tesla. He was employed by them and gradually took over. Tesla would’ve happened with or without Musk due to the 2008 financial crisis, bailouts for auto makers and tax breaks for low emissions. Tesla is a success due to serendipitous circumstances. Musk’s great skill is in navigating money, resources and political will and selling a vision. Neither Tesla nor SpaceX could’ve made it without the government and the financial crisis.
Twitter is proof of what happens when he ties to do something on his own. AI is proof of his fallibility and pure self drive is proof of his hubris.
Tesla M3/My are great products and arguably still the yardstick by which other EVs are judged, but do I want one given the above? Nah.
VW did brush it all under the rug. Why do you think VW went EV faster than anyone else? To try and hide their diesel shame. And just look, it’s worked. VW are good again, despite knowingly producing millions of vehicles that produced upto 3 times the emissions that they said they did.
If their EVs started to fall behind like their Diesel engines did (vs BMW and Jaguar) would they cut corners again to steady their market share? You bet your ass they would.
Does anyone know of a site you can search cars by p11d value, going to look at electric option.
Comcar.co.uk has always been the company car drivers friend
I have friends who work for Tesla and SpaceX. They love the work, but hate the job. Most are clinging on for stock options and will quit ASAP.
Unless Musk sacks them for daring to disagree with him. Or even not rabidly agreeing with him.
I'm sure it's been asked/answered somewhere but is there somewhere that summarises what EVs can take a towbar? I'm not worried about weight - it's just for my towball mounted bike rack - but it's a deal breaker for me as I'm not going back to putting muddy bikes in cars!
If you refused to buy all products from companies that had one or many dicks at the top you might not have many things left….
Bill Gates might have made billions, but he didn’t do it by shitting on the little guys and leveraging huge tax breaks to do it.
Without wishing to derail this thread - that's just not true. Gates was an absolute ****er to employees and competitors for most of his time in charge of MS. Sure he's now an incredible philanthropist doing amazing things but let's not re-write history.
But for sure Musk is an over-promising, under-delivering fascist tosser that I'm sure many execs at Tesla wish wasn't there anymore (although much of their over-inflated stock price is because of his continued cult of personality)
VW did brush it all under the rug. Why do you think VW went EV faster than anyone else? To try and hide their diesel shame.
That's not my reading of it. The entire industry has done that, except for Toyota who have now done it a bit later.
despite knowingly producing millions of vehicles that produced upto 3 times the emissions that they said they did
Loads of cars did that. Have a look at the real-world tests of NOx emissions. The difference with VW is the way they did it which was very deliberate, naked and obvious. I'm not saying VW are good, all I'm saying that is that because they were busted so spectacularly (and probably because they are German, and the German authorities absolutely do not mess about) they are likely to be on their best behaviour from now on.
I’m sure it’s been asked/answered somewhere but is there somewhere that summarises what EVs can take a towbar?
There is a site, hang on...
https://towcar.info/all-EV.php
This lists tow cars, which by definition you can get towballs for. There is the option of the Thule rack-only adapter thingy, which was available back in the day for cars that were not homologated for towing - but I'm not sure it's actually available in the UK as it's impossible to find.
Loads of cars did that. Have a look at the real-world tests of NOx emissions. The difference with VW is the way they did it which was very deliberate, naked and obvious.
You must be reading different reports to me then.
VW ignored the very badly written legislation and still did something that was absolutely and *explicitly* illegal.
Just about everyone else worked within the very badly written legislation and had *perfectly legal* but morally dubious solutions that gave awful emissions if you didn't drive exactly as the (badly written) legislation told you to.
FWIW, the new legislation is also terribly written and moderately easy to circumvent given a few days , a couple of brainy people and a total lack of morals.
VW ignored the very badly written legislation and still did something that was absolutely and *explicitly* illegal.
Just about everyone else worked within the very badly written legislation and had *perfectly legal* but morally dubious solutions that gave awful emissions if you didn’t drive exactly as the (badly written) legislation told you to.
That's what I meant. Most manufacturers were/are knowingly emitting more than they should.
molgripsFree Member
I’m sure it’s been asked/answered somewhere but is there somewhere that summarises what EVs can take a towbar?
There is a site, hang on…https://towcar.info/all-EV.php
/blockquote>
thanks @molgrips that's very helpful 🙂
Only VW had the bonnet open defeat feature.
retrorick
Electric car mayhem 😉
New article about the story.
Most manufacturers were/are knowingly emitting more than they should.
No, they were emitting what the (badly written) legislation allowed them to.
https://towcar.info/all-EV.php
/blockquote>Doesn't seem to include my Kia Soul which has a towbar.
It's weird how there is a thread about diesel emissions compensation being nonsense as it is rubbish as no-one has suffered, and this thread where VW is Evil Inc and are actually murdering people.
I have a Buzz Cargo, got it end of July last year. So I can chat about the platform, range and drive feel but not the cabin finish or the rear seats, although we did test drive the car version. Why would you not book a test drive for long enough to test the range? We did 20 miles in the first test, it was winter and dark, managed over 3m/kWh, which compared to the E-Expert we had at the time was amazing. 3 is 'best conditions 40mph summer run' number in the Peugeot.
Second test drive was in the cargo and arranged through the commercial side, I told them I needed to load test it fully (stick bikes in it!) then do a full range test. I picked it up with 80% in -3 degrees, returned it at the end of the day having driven over 135 miles. From memory about 15% left. 3m/kWh again. Mix of dual, motorway, a roads, town etc.
If you want to test it fully just book a day, they should accommodate. Take the family away, pack some miles in, do some charging, whatever. They might even let you keep it overnight if you ask nicely.
I would like it to be a bit bigger in the back, but everything else has been spot on. Summer was 3.5-4.5m/kWh. Charging is fast - drove back from Core bike show in 7 degrees, 355 miles with a single 40min charge stop and 25% remaining when I got back. Having a slightly faster 11kw AC charger is great for charging while you ride, if you can find the right kind of post. Comrie Croft is great for that 😁
The only other thing on your radar should be the E-Custom Tourino, but they seem to have forgotten about launching that. They said it would launch late 23.
Don't go near any of the Peugeot group ones. It was really pants. Would have been easier to live with if we had a home charger, but it was near enough use it, you charge it. Driving to test the Buzz, a cold frosty start and 50% ISH on the battery, it made it 10 miles to the dealer and back and was nearly in the red. Terrible range estimation too.
Ford Mach-E review: much better than the Enyaq, still not as good as the Tesla. No heat pump. 2.7 miles / kWh on the way home from the dealer ‘cos they said I could keep it for the weekend.
I score it as “OK” - adaptive cruise is fine, but Ford went to the same discount retailer that VAG use in order to get the latest 1982 BBC Micro to run the infotainment.
This is what makes touchscreens dangerous. In the Tesla I can jab a button on the screen and know that it’s going to work. The Ford uses the same logic as self-checkout machines at the supermarket: acknowledge the button push but don’t do anything.
Plastic is a bit scratchy, screen position is weird (why isn’t it tilted towards the driver?), and all of the icons for DAB stations show little crosses. It does have wireless Android Auto though. Not convinced it’s a nice environment for hours at a time. And the windscreen is tiny.
Stuck my head into the local VW dealership to try to see the ID7. “Sorry, the manager is driving our only ID7 and he’s on holiday”.
Need to try to get a drive in a Polestar 2 next.
Sorry, the manager is driving our only ID7
I had versions of this multiple times when EV shopping. It made me really quite cross as surely the point of demonstrators is to, well demonstrate the car to customers, not as a personal runaround for the manager, finance director or whatever. My guess is they’re classed as company cars hence the low BiK rates make them appealing.
It’s weird how there is a thread about diesel emissions compensation being nonsense as it is rubbish as no-one has suffered, and this thread where VW is Evil Inc and are actually murdering people.
That's because the people suffering aren't the ones getting compensation. The ones claiming are owners claiming compensation for the emotional trauma of emitting NOx, which most people don't give two hoots about they are just grabbing free money.
A lawsuit by people who live in cities with lung problems would be much more legitimate.
Need to try to get a drive in a Polestar 2 next
If you're anywhere near the South Coast you're welcome to a fanny around in mine...
DrP
The ones claiming are owners claiming compensation for the emotional trauma of emitting NOx, which most people don’t give two hoots about they are just grabbing free money.
considering the pro portion of parents sitting outside their kids school with engines idling away its fairly clear that most people don’t give a *^%* about pollution.
It’s weird how there is a thread about diesel emissions compensation being nonsense as it is rubbish as no-one has suffered, and this thread where VW is Evil Inc and are actually murdering people.
Its not weird. The posters in the other thread are wrong.
https://phys.org/news/2017-09-dieselgate-deaths-europe-year.html
5,000 people in Europe alone. Its just that we'll never know their names.
Need to try to get a drive in a Polestar 2 next
They have test drive centres dotted about. I'm taking a performance spec one out from Meadowhall tomorrow
VW is going to be squeaky clean from now on
🤣🤣🤣 well, not in terms of their fleet emission profile - still a heavy petrol and diesel car producer. And in terms of their business practices and adherence to legislation? I guess we’ll see.