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molgrips
VW have admitted they got that very wrong so expect some major changes. I doubt that car will be released with the same setup.
ID7 features the same awful steering wheel controls, and same awful interface. They did illuminate the buttons under the screen, the ones which were invisible at night in the ID4, but otherwise they haven't changed it much. And it is genuinely much, much worse than the generation of cars from 10 years before.
Got confirmation that the Enyaq should be with me in about 7 weeks...looking forward to it but also slightly worried I've ordered a lemon after reading all this stuff!
Off to find some waterproof seat covers for the front seats as I suspect those will be trashed quickly if I don't get them covered!
In practice, it’s a massive (more than 50%) price increase over the Passat
Not it’s not. ID7 tourer is going to be in the low £50,000s. A Passat estate of similar specification is knocking on 50 grand. ‘Similar specification’ being the important phrase, not starting price.
I wouldn't worry too much about the Enyaq, they've had some reasonably good long term reviews. They're the same MEB platform as the ID.4/5, but with slightly different software. If you're getting it in 7 weeks it should be the more efficient motor and updated infotainment system with larger screen and V4 software. The infotainment system is ok if you've got v3.X or higher, not necessarily the slickest computer interface in the work but the VW one works ok. A lot of the bad press was for V2, which was slower and clunkier and looked worse compared to cars like the Tesla.
I think there's the same two drive modes as the VW, which means D and B and no changing of regen modes. D has more coasting when you lift your foot, whereas B applies the brake when you lift off but not quite 1 pedal driving. The Skoda has a more traditional interior than the ID range, so has physical buttons from what I understand.
We are leasing an id.5. Can't adjust the regen, it works like above with 2 modes. The steering wheel buttons are fine, must hold the wheel different to everyone else. The UI is fine. I like the drive BUT I pootle about and am no car head. Lane assist is nowhere near as aggressive as some. The unlit shortcuts under the display is annoying. Other stuff about it _is_ shit: in particular the wider ecosystem away from the car, like the phone app and other online services and how well (or not) all those things work together; or the voice interface; or the cost to buy.
It's disappointing to read about these fairly fundamental user interface experiences with the VWs, on what is essentially a premium brand. You have to wonder how they got to the end user without enough testing to sort out these things 🙁 Not what we have probably come to expect from VAG..
I'm glad i opted for the i4, which i did largely on basis of the Tusker lease lead time, after cancelling a Q4 eTron order. I can honestly say there is nothing about the BMW driver experience that annoys me.., well maybe the lane assist, but as with most users I have set up the recommenced shortcut from the idrive knob or touchscreen.
iainc
It’s disappointing to read about these fairly fundamental user interface experiences with the VWs, on what is essentially a premium brand. You have to wonder how they got to the end user without enough testing to sort out these things 🙁 Not what we have probably come to expect from VAG..
They've said themselves they rushed it to market and made huge mistakes doing so. But are still selling the cars.
llama
We are leasing an id.5. Can’t adjust the regen, it works like above with 2 modes.
Changing between comfort/sport/whatever the drive modes are seems to change the braking behaviour to a more natural feel, that's what I was adjusting
Skoda seem to do an awful lot of things slightly better than VW lately. It’s almost worth paying the lower price.
Unfortunately by the time you go through to options it can sometimes come to the same as the VW equivalent. I've had Skodas and VWs in the past and don't really mind either. The Enyaq is something we've looked at as a next car as well.
The new Renault 5 looks fantastic
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https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=2065996
Good range for a small car, and a sensible 0-60 around 8s, it could be a winner.
I'm also quite excited to see what Alpine will be able to do with it.
It does look a great design. A hot version could be good, if they can keep the weight down.
I really like the look of that!!
Playing about with the new OTA performance upgrade on the school run today (LOLZ!)...
Luck would have it i was first in line at some traffic lights (on a national speed limit section), and it was the opinion of the 9 year old in the passenger seat that "daddy floor it"..
Not a bad takeoff speed up a slight incline!!
Gotta love the ease of EV driving..
DrP
The new Renault 5 looks fantastic
Looks awesome. Definitely is a big step up on the design front, but wouldn't say it's a game-changer spec-wise compared to what's already available (looks out window at small, French, funky designed, 50kW batteried , 150 bhp, ~7.5s 0-60, e208).
Sweden has a lot of new brands coming onto the market, predominantly Chinese origin. Some of them don't look too bad, but the concerning thing is the supportability and longevity of them. Sweden is harsh on vehicles.
Anyway, the latest entry is this: https://www.blocket.se/annons/1001057385
It has a central console that looks like a speedboat deck, but the name may put off some.
The new Renault 5 looks fantastic
It’d be even better with a sub 1200kg kerb weight and a 1.5 turbo/supercharged 250bhp+ engine would suit me fine, followed in a year or two with the Gordini version.
It’d be even better with a sub 1200kg kerb weight and a 1.5 turbo/supercharged 250bhp+
Those days are long gone.but the new r5 is one of the first good looking affordable evs
I agree. I think people who are nostalgic for an old fashioned hot hatch haven't really had a chance to rag an EV about the place. The way you can pick up speed in windy bits is astonishing, and you don't even need to go that fast at all to have a great dea of fun.
As I mentioned a few pages back I had the MG4 EV XPower for a couple of hours and took it on a run on very quiet Galloway roads I used to drive every day in my Mk2 Golf gti with 190bhp+, the MG was good fun and had acceleration that made me giggle but you can’t hide the weight nor the lack of driver involvement. The EV option for transport is very welcome and will be the obvious choice for many but not for all.
good looking affordable evs
Just to clarify before some smart gype comments "affordable my arse" I mean this in a "not a rimec" kind of way
EVs on the whole are still Ludacrisly nee prohibitively expensive.
you can’t hide the weight nor the lack of driver involvement.
That is a family car at the bottom of the EV market though, you can't really compare it to a classic hot hatch and apply that to all EVs.
The sodium-ion battery is here:
https://electrek.co/2023/12/27/volkswagen-backed-ev-maker-first-sodium-ion-battery-electric-car/
Can I also add a new MG4 Estate looks good:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mg-4-spawn-estate-replace-ageing-mg-5
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What is the world coming to when your basic family general purpose estate comes in a version with 429bhp and it's not even that remarkable.
That Renault looks tremendous. More of this please!
That orange estate isn't doing anything for me .
It's almost as much of a tragedy as the zafira vxr.
Well I pick up my first electric car next week. A Cupra Born. Not sure if I am going to love it or hate it. The infotainment gets a hard time in reviews but it is a bit similar to what I have in my Ateca so I hope I find it OK. I reckon it will save me about €200/250 per month (in repayments and fuel) compared my current Ateca diesel. Getting a OHME home pro charger fitted next week too which allows me to charge for just 10cent per kw 2am-4am giving me enough of a daily top up for the majority of my daily driving. Looking forward to trying the EV experience.
Any top tips for a novice?
Is it a genuine thing? Just asking as I'm assuming the branding on the rear sill suggests it could be an imagined solution.
I thought mg5 was same age as mg4, but mg4 has had a recent styling change?
Can I also add a new MG4 Estate looks good
that's a render afaik
Any top tips for a novice?
Not really. Get in, start car, go. Plug in when you get home.
Only thing is probably don't leave it sit for days at 100%. So probably charge to 80 day to day - Ohme lets you schedule this. I have mine set to 80% every morning except 100% on Monday mornings so that the cells have a chance to balance.
matt_outandabout
Full Member
Can I also add a new MG4 Estate looks good:
It's strange, the mg4 looks superb in pics, but in person they look quite ordinary. Something about the proportions makes it look dumpy.
They're obviously selling well though, I'm seeing a lot about now. The blue colour looks better on them than in pics.
Any top tips for a novice?
don’t try and charge it like you would fuel an ICE / I.e. wait until it’s low then charge. Get ahead of the need and plan, so for short daily trips make sure you’ve charged enough go overnight to cover the days needs and then never have to charge away from home. For longer journeys plan a bit - work out how much extra charge you’ll need and figure out some convenient places to stop - again don’t wait until it’s empty. Also charge just enough to get back home (plus a comfort / safety buffer) as it’s expensive charging on the road. Look up the charging curve for your car to see where the optimal point is for a “fast” charge. For overnight trips or long stops see if you can use 7kW destination chargers as they’re often cheaper. Download zap map. S
the above all becomes second nature after a while and isn’t as arduous as it sounds. Enjoy !
“ so that the cells have a chance to balance.”
A what now? What’s this fresh new EV myth/madness. (Probably right though as you seem to be clued up.) glad mines on a lease so I don’t have to worry about this sort of bollocks!
A what now? What’s this fresh new EV myth/madness
Cell balancing, ensuring that each individual cell in the battery has the same voltage so you get the full capacity out of the cells , can only be done when the battery is at 100% charge, its all managed by the battery management system, so you dont need to do anything particular except to leave it charging until the BMS decides the battery is at 100%.
I dont think you need to do it as often as weekly either, we typically need the range of a 100% charged battery once a month so the battery only gets charged to 100% when we need it for a trip. I think an out of balance battery would only be a problem for those who very rarely let it charge to 100%, like once every few years level of rarely.
It's not that big of a deal really. Some cells have higher voltages than others, so the battery pack is constantly charging the low cells from the higher ones - or at least, when it's plugged in. I'm not exactly sure on when it happens. But when the charge is very low or very high the cell differences are greatest, so the cells balance more effectively. It is suggested on the Leaf forums that having the car sit at high charge or low charge for a few hours helps this process. However, I really don't think it matters much on most cars. You almost certainly don't have to worry about it, it's just for people who want to nerd out (or can't help it).
It’s strange, the mg4 looks superb in pics, but in person they look quite ordinary. Something about the proportions makes it look dumpy.
A lot of manufacturers have either the biggest damn wheel and tyre combo available in any market on the display/photoshoot cars, or use wheels that are actually (slightly) too big on the marketing shots. There have also been cases where they muck around with the suspension to make the car sit slightly lower. (On the massive wheels).
They also light them really well.
You don't need to do anything special to balance the cells. Even the shittiest out of date EVs will balance the cells as soon as you connect an external power supply. The battery controller will do it all for you. And in newer cars will flag an internal fault if a battery is hard to balance, or an external fault if it can't be balanced.
It's not a toy car where you might, on occasion, need to intervene and balance them yourself.
Question:-
My son is doing increasing business mileage for work - he works for an IT Solution's business so is often at clients - all local within the region, but can be clocking up over 100-150 miles a day. Currently using his own vehicle as he's not quite old enough to use the company electric cars (only a van and a corsa - boss has a leccy Porsche). His line manager is using both vehicles as the range is poor, often returning to the office to swap vehicles whilst the other charges.
Now, here in lies the issue. Son needs to ask about 'charging' and re-imbursement - We don't have an electric car as neither of us (his parents) do enough miles to make it worthwhile - I do 3k a year, wife 5k.
I'm not, however, going to stump up charging a car from a plug at near 30p KWh - assuming it needs maybe 30KW overnight, that's about £10 per night. Even at a cheap overnight rate I'd be looking at £3-4 per day, plus increased daytime tariff (our house is occupied 24/7 so leccy use is pretty constant during the day.
How do other's claim back for business miles in company cars - is it much the same. Given most of the 'charge' will be business use as he has his own car.
My employer gives out a flat 11p/mile or something, based purely on mileage. It doesn't matter where you charge, so if you charge at home you're quids in, but at a rapid you could be quids out. Wouldn't matter if I charged at my parents' house. Not sure of the legality of this mind.
Assumptions as it's not clear from your post.
1. Son is going to be using one of the electric vehicles soon;
2. Son is going to be bringing it home; and
3. Son is going to need to charge it.
Simples, charge at the office/base or get them to provide a card for him to charge at a public charger.
Alternatively, get them to install a charger at your house, switch to a car friendly tariff and then charge back leccy used by looking at the web interface/app.
Ah ok.
Everyday a school day etc. It probably gets 100% every 5-6 weeks so no need to change anything!
@oldtennisshoes Sorry, yes to all three. He's being put on the insurance (was over 25's so lowering it to 23), most likely it will come home, and it will be need charging.
The other option is that he leaves the vehicle at the office, but that could be a 30 mile round trip if he's out at clients first/last thing - often travels straight from home.
Alternatively, get them to install a charger at your house, switch to a car friendly tariff
I wouldn't do that - you could be out of pocket the rest of the time. They either pay you for your costs (30p/kWh) or do something else.
Everyday a school day etc
Yeah listen to mert though, they know a lot more than me.
HMRC advisory fuel rates are 9p a mile for electric at the moment, so a typical efficiency car (about 3.4 mi/kwh) would be covered at 30p/kWh. If he's doing big enough days that he needs to do much rapid charging that can tip it past that though. If he's bringing it home then it's a company car not a pool car so would be subject to BIK, although that's still very low on EVs.
Been for a test drive in this today, what an unbelievably nice car. Hovering over whether to buy or not. 219 mile range is a sticking point though
I wouldn’t do that – you could be out of pocket the rest of the time.
You could, but it depends on the tariff and how many personal miles he does.
219 miles isn't a lot of range these days, STR. Did you check your kWh/mile during the test to find out what your real world range is ? If the performance was part of what you liked I think you might be disappointed because big lumps like that are flattered by the test protocols and greedy if the performance available is used.
Everything you've posted on ICE threads says you won't like a car that passes everything except a charge point.
Been for a test drive in this today, what an unbelievably nice car
Theres a big thread running on pistonheads on those
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=2042333
The consensus is that if the range works for you, then they're decent. The usual flaky VW software is also present.
Real world range for a 55 seems to be about 200 miles, or 150miles for a 50 with the smaller battery.
Been for a test drive in this today, what an unbelievably nice car. Hovering over whether to buy or not. 219 mile range is a sticking point though
I ran one (a 55) for 9 months. Range was of about 200 miles ish is about right - a bit more in summer, a bit less in the winter.
It was a very nice thing indeed - properly comfy and luxurious. Not even slightly sporty - almost every driving sensation has been removed I thought, so you just waft along in silence and comfort. It is however very capable - goes around corners surprisingly well for such a big heavy thing (I guess the low battery helps) and is very quick in a straight line.
I was really happy to change for an i4 as the range didn't work for me, but if most of your driving is within the range then I would be quite happy to own one.
200 miles of range is ok, as long as charging speed is decent enough. Basically you're stopping every three hours, which personally I'd do anyway just to eat, piss and buy coffee - not necessarily in that order.
Speaking of short range cars, I bought the Ioniq today, it's in unbelievably good nick for having done 73k miles. They also seem to have been working on the app and the software as it's all nice and slick now. I was even able to de-register the old driver and re-register myself in minutes whilst sat in the car. The range and efficiency seem to be exactly as they were in our previous leased one which was brand new.
200 miles of range is ok, as long as charging speed is decent enough. Basically you’re stopping every three hours, which personally I’d do anyway just to eat, piss and buy coffee – not necessarily in that order.
I believe the Audi is pretty efficient at charging
My work journeys (for when I'd use it for work - wouldn't be all the time) usually tend to be just shy of 200 - obviously there will be the odd one where I have to stop. The main contractor has free charging on site.
Family get aways tend to be in the caravan, so the Disco would still be used for that.
Other than that, there's a couple of 75kw chargers near my house (79p/kw Osprey) if I need a boost and would go Intelligent Octopus
Undecided - it's a bit of an extravagance tbh. With the plummeting residuals, I'd probably get a 2year PCP and hand it back - treat it like a lease
If your journeys are just shy of 200 in a 219 km car you're going to be down to the last 10% which for me is when things start feeling uncomfortable because you become very dependant on the charger you're intending to use working. I usually plan charges at around 20% which leaves plenty of range to go on to a working charger if the first one isn't working. In an Etron I'd expect a between charge range of 100-150 miles depending on the speed limits and weather.
In the Zoé which is 245 miles wltp I generally do 120-180 miles between charges and have never done more than 210 miles before charging except on the last leg before charging at home. Edit: or any other place you know the charger will be working such as your contractors.
@edukator . please explain this to my OH!!
She's got the LEAF now..for ages I was politely trying to show her how to charge it etc etc. She showed no interest.
Amazingly, a few weeks ago she managed to get home with...ZERO percent battery...! I think she actually had 0.001% a few miles away from home, but this was at the top of a long gradual hill decline, so relied on teh car keeping itself going purely on regen!!
She was used to ICE cars when "empty fuel tank = meh, another 30 miles left i reckon.."!
DrP
The main contractor has free charging on site.
…which will be AC most likely. Max 11kw.
Charging an almost flat 95kwh battery to get you home is going to take a long time. Hope you’re working 12 hour shifts
For that kind of money and your specific usage requirements I’d by looking at something with better range and faster charging. (And probably Korean ‘coz they’re currently smashing it out of the park EV wise. Saw my first Kia EV9 on Wednesday and I want one)
…which will be AC most likely. Max 11kw.
Charging an almost flat 95kwh battery to get you home is going to take a long time. Hope you’re working 12 hour shiftsFor that kind of money and your specific usage requirements I’d by looking at something with better range and faster charging. (And probably Korean ‘coz they’re currently smashing it out of the park EV wise. Saw my first Kia EV9 on Wednesday and I want one)
Journey to current site = 184 miles (stated range for etron = 219, but real world is obviously considerably less). I'm quite good at gentle driving on long journeys. Had over 50mpg out of both Discovey 4 & 5's - 3l 6cyl diesels.
Mon-Fri is then spent on site with journey home on Friday (sometimes visit a different site). Don't mind the odd stop at a rapid charger anyway.
The other car on the list is an EV6 GT - will feel like pov spec after the Audi though
DrP
Amazingly, a few weeks ago she managed to get home with…ZERO percent battery…! I think she actually had 0.001% a few miles away from home, but this was at the top of a long gradual hill decline, so relied on teh car keeping itself going purely on regen!!
If you watch some of the carwow range tests that they sometimes do (I'm Matt Watson & you're watching Carwow etc) they quite often get down to "0%" and have to drive in ever decreasing circles until it stops. Some of them go surprisingly far on an 'empty' battery - typically something like 8-10 miles.
Just get her 4 AAs to whack in the glovebox.
EV6 GT
Nice car.. if i hadn't got the Polestar, that would have been on my list. The true GT (not jsut GT line) is something like 570BHP!!
DrP
The other car on the list is an EV6 GT – will feel like pov spec after the Audi though
Have a look at a Genesis GV60 Sports plus if you want to make the Audi look a bit bare.
My absolute povvy spec GV60 is plusher and better equipped than the raft of mid spec Audi Q4’s in our car park.
Have a look at a Genesis GV60 Sports plus if you want to make the Audi look a bit bare.
My absolute povvy spec GV60 is plusher and better equipped than the raft of mid spec Audi Q4’s in our car park.
This is a £100k+ Audi list with almost every option ticked. I can't really think of anything it hasn't got
I think you'll have to trundle along with the trucks to get to to site on one change in Summer STR, 70mph and you'll get there with 1% or less. Above 55mph EVs drop below wltp figures and at 70mph an etron is around 180miles under the most favourable conditions.
Edit: it hasn't got either colour or style, STR. It's black, chrome and boring. 😋 I loved some the first generation EVs because they dared to be different. When bought the second Zoé I said to the salesman " it's gone black Germanic and boring and everything I touch is going to burn me if I leave it in the sun - I like these new piano switches though" The Etron does still have switches - that's good.
I had a 3 day test of the Audi Q4 sportback with a view to getting one as a co car.
It was really nice but the 319mile range seemed mingy, so 200 is really low.
And £950 for a heat pump? It should be standard
Above 55mph EVs drop below wltp figures and at 70mph an etron is around 180miles under the most favourable conditions.
according to evdb (which I have found to be accurate) , the etron 55 will do 205 miles at 70mph in warm weather, this drops to 165 miles in -10c (but still at 70 mph), so I suspect your assertion of 180 miles in favourable conditions at 70mph is a bit pessimistic.
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1355/Audi-e-tron-55-quattro
I can’t really think of anything it hasn’t got
300 miles of range? 😉
American real-world testing, julians. InsideEVs
so spent last week driving my first EV - a mach-e. I was in Phoenix for work and got given it as a free upgrade to a "corolla or similar" as I wanted something easy to put my bike in. I did around 600 miles in 6 days. Thoughts :
it's rapid - both in a straight line (it was the dual motor, so 0-60 in the 5s) - but particularly when driving along when its always responsive - its a bit like driving everywhere in 2nd I guess. Pulling out to overtake traffic on a 2-lane road by planting your foot, once you're level with the car you're passing its easy to be in triple figures if you don't take care.
the self-driving stuff was good. It didn't do full self-drive but would happily steer and power itself along windy roads or freeways. It'd decelerate ahead of a speed limit reduction (even before the sign was visible, so I guess using satnav) so you went into the zone at exactly the right speed, which was nice
the entertainment system with a big vertical screen was nice and responsive on android auto, although it was a bit slow to start up. The car bonged about seatbelts from the moment you turned it on, which was annoying as I normally turn-on-then-seatbelt (to allow the car to sort itself). Cameras all around including a 360 camera when parking was nice. Sound system was strong
Space-wise, it feels airy inside and is fairly spacious, maybe a little bigger than a mondeo. Seats down there's just room for a long trailbike with both wheels on, but its easier to take one off. The back of the boot is fairly shallow due to the overall liftback shape
Charging was a ballache. The mach-e charges fairly fast (120kw), but not really fast, it also drops right off after 80% - beyond which you're adding something like 10 miles-per-hour - so the realistic range if you can't charge overnight is around 200 miles. It has to be given back 75% charge or more. Before agreeing to the car, I checked my hotel had ev charging which it did. On arrival, it only had tesla chargers, and my car had neither a lead to charge off the mains nor a tesla adapter. There are chargers at work, but not enough for the number of people who use them. I got on them (and a bunch of shopping centre chargers) a few times, only to find the majority of chargers (maybe all the AC ones?) are slow chargers - they'll give you maybe 10-20 miiles in an hour. Good enough to stay topped up if you're doing a few miles a day, not much use when you're doing more miles.
Avis had told me to get EVGo to charge up, but that can't be installed if your phone is british. So I used chargepoint, which was alright, and had to find fast chargers which were fairly spaced even in a big metropolitan area. I ended up having to hang round in carparks waiting for the thing to charge for a half hour, then head on. I think these charges were fairly pricey ($20 for a 50% top up?) but I wasn't paying too much attention as I'm not personally paying. Chargepoint makes you hold credit in the app which is annoying, in the end I found electrify america had more chargers that were mostly 350kw and allowed you to just pay using a card reader at the site which is far more convinient, but I found it hard to locate these chargers/see if they're working - google maps knew where they were but had no data, maybe a different app would have worked? but it was pretty poorly integrated into overall nav.
On the last day I day-tripped to tuscon to ride the lemmon drop, which is about 240 mile round trip, so I had to fast charge to get it full the evening before, then fast charge in tuscon, then fast charge near the airport to get it back full enough, spending around 2 hours in carparks when I had better things to do.
So, long story short, I think the car was good, and if they were cheap enough I'd easily consider one (or its competitors) for a daily driver in the uk, however I would avoid renting a (non-tesla) EV whilst travelling if the situation arose again - the charging infra if you don't have charging at home is just way too much of a ballache compared to being able to pull into a petrol station and fill up. This is obviously different if you live somewhere you can charge, or you're familiar with the apps/charger locations/etc, but for now, I think the infra has some way to go.
American real-world testing, julians. InsideEVs
This test? showing 188.4 miles at 70mph?
https://insideevs.com/reviews/445646/audi-etron-highway-range-test/
That test was on a pre 2021 model which was before audi updated the software in the 2021 and on models (like what STR is looking at) to give it additional usable battery capacity. So using inside ev miles per kwh numbers of 2.3 from that test , would give the updated car a touch under 200 miles range at 70mph
I think the update to release more usable capacity can be retro applied to earlier cars too, but I'm not certain about that
You can tell the weather is warming up, I've been seeing 2.3 to 2.4 miles per kwh on regular drive over the past few weeks, today saw 4miles per kwh.
Not bad for an inefficient merc eqc.
Why are the newer tech EVs all such poor efficiencies. I am horrified if my Ioniq goes less than 4 even on a cold day. I appreciate many are now bigger but would have thought that improvements in technology cancel out some of the increased size?
Has the desire for efficiency now gone with faster charging available?
<quote is broken>
Why are the newer tech EVs all such poor efficiencies. I am horrified if my Ioniq goes less than 4 even on a cold day. I appreciate many are now bigger but would have thought that improvements in technology cancel out some of the increased size?
<end>
I dont think it especially surprising that a large , heavy, 4wd, fast suv is less efficient than a smaller, lighter, slower, 2wd saloon/hatchback.
But in the case of the EQC, its a car that was developed a few years ago, so not the latest BEV technology, I think the newer cohort of SUV's are more efficient, but physics dictates that they will never be as efficient as something smaller and lighter with less driven wheels.
I'm not too concerned with efficiency (with home charging elec prices as they are) as long as the range is sufficient for the odd long trip we do.
yes, makes sense with the big boxes, is more a philosophical question around the way manufacturers are going with the tech. I would have expected to see gains in efficiency, but it seems that gains are more around charging speed and battery capacity.
Longer range = bigger battery = more weight = less efficiency.
It’s an easy fix for manufacturers to increase range by increasing the size of the battery rather than redesigning the car.
Indeed i get the calculations on efficiency.
Are customers not demanding better efficiency? This has been one of the great selling points of ICE cars in the past, but seems to get hidden behind the more simple range numbers.
Initial vehicles were all about the aero due to battery limitations, but this is all forgotten as every car that comes out looks like it has been designed using Lego!
Hopefully efficiency will come back into the mix soon when people realise just how much it costs having to fill up at 79p/kwh on the motorways.
Main issue I see is that manufacturers are all pandering to the ridiculous notion everyone seems to have at the moment that they really need an SUV.
I’m not too concerned with efficiency (with home charging elec prices as they are) as long as the range is sufficient for the odd long trip we do.
Ditto..
However, the NEWER polestar (MY24) has better motor and battery tech in it, and mine is only 3 years old..
Things like actually disengaging the whole front motor when just cruising means it's basically a true 2wd, until it's not. And the motors are more efficient too. So it's heading that direction i guess.
DrP
Are customers not demanding better efficiency?
Because they don't know what constitutes good or bad efficiency, and most people love SUV shapes so that's what they buy. However, in theory they should be able to get more range from a cheaper car if it's efficient.
I think the issue is that the WTLP cycle is still heavily biased towards town driving - but this is really not a good metric for EV drivers. If you charge at home you aren't ever going to drive 280 miles in local town driving, so it's an irrelevant number. We drive long distances on motorways, and that's the crucial bit. We should have a motorway range number. The thing is, at higher speeds bigger and heavier cars do much worse than their WTLP, but buyers either won't know that until they've already bought it, or they are just handwaving it away.
My car is small, light and effiicent, and it has a small battery so cheap - but it can still do 170 miles at motorway speeds. But the headline range at 190 miles is low. I averaged 5.2 m/kWh going to North Wales and back in the last one on about 75% A roads, that's better than the WTLP figure. Everyone's used to saying 'oh well, they never get the official figures' so they can justify it, but no - you CAN get the WTLP in a properly designed car. If that thing had 150k charging it'd be unbeatable.
Things like actually disengaging the whole front motor when just cruising means it’s basically a true 2wd, until it’s not.
It'll still have driveshafts and a front diff to turn even if it de-clutches the motor.
Why are the newer tech EVs all such poor efficiencies.
Some aren't. Tesla Model 3 and Y are still leaders when it comes to efficiency and the new Model 3 is more efficient than the older one. However I agree that some OEMs are going backwards in efficiency like Hyundai and Kia.
Tesla Model 3 and Y are still leaders
They aren't the most efficient cars.
We’ve had a Merc EQA350 4matic since December and it’s shocking on the juice.. hovering around 2-2.2 m/kwh mark. We had a model 3 and an ID3 prior to this and the difference is staggering. It’s not a dealbreaker for us though as we have an ICE estate car for longer journeys/holidays/etc. and we only got the Merc as they were on a great deal thru sal sacrifice. I also cant believe these SUV EVs don’t seem to have a ‘frunk’ like you get on a Tesla, proper lazy design.. if Tesla can manage to fit one in the front of a wedge shaped model 3 then I see no reason why other manufacturers can’t with these big cars. The amount of hardware under the bonnet of the Merc is ridiculous.. I have no idea what most of it is!
The EQA is currently the smallest EV Merc make until the A class hatch comes out (think it’s next year) and whilst it’s not massive (footprint not much more than the ID) it looks big because of the shape. Makes me laugh as the local scratch and shine charge £2 more for the EQA than my 5 tourer despite the BMW being a MUCH bigger car 🤣.
molgripsThey aren’t the most efficient cars.
Compared to ..?