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I guess those of us on salary sacrifice leases are going to see a hike in our monthly payments
It will only apply to new ev's bought after the introduction of the luxury car tax in 2025, it wont be applied retrospectively to older ev's.
road tax on a new Model 3 from next year: ~£650/yr.
Road tax on an old V60: £30/yr.
Road tax on an old model 3 (or any other ev regardless of list price from before april 2025) from next year : £180.
I dont actually think its as black and white as that , I think (but cant be bothered to dig) that older ev's (maybe before a certain date) are still £0 tax.
If your lease is up in the next 6 months, you can still lease a brand new ev and just pay £180 per year road tax because it'll be registered before the april 2025 deadline when the luxury car tax starts to apply to ev's.
I mean ultimately if an ev doesnt work because of range, charging speed or cost to purchase, then it doesnt work thats just a fact of life, but If one worked for you for the past 3 years, then one can surely work for the next 3, especially if you get in before the new luxury car tax rules.
The road tax is a relatively small element of my decision.
road tax is a relatively small element of my decision
do you do a lot of public charging? I can completely understand that there's little point in going ev if you have to use the public charging infrastructure a lot. I think the infrastructure itself is getting there no for most of the country, but the costs are stupid.
I find it kind of horrifying now how much diesel I pour into the tank of my car and the fact it all gets spewed out of the exhaust into the air.
do you do a lot of public charging?
About half of the charging I do is on a public charger. The rest is at 7.5p/kWh with Octopus.
About half of the charging I do is on a public charger.
Yeah, that'd probably make an ev pointless for me too, would tip the balance to being too long waiting for the car to charge instead of driving like I would be if I were in the ICE car, combined with the costs of public electricity .
would tip the balance to being too long waiting for the car to charge instead of driving like I would be if I were in the ICE car
See earlier in the thread regarding charge times with the Hyundai platform. I was weighing up the EQC versus Ioniq 5 earlier, then I realised the latter could charge at least twice as quick. The charge numbers discussed are pretty remarkable and certainly in line with the time I'd spend stopped anyway.
Pinch of salt required regarding the Hyundai / Kia / Genesis platform charging speeds.
Yes,they are realistic and entirely achievable but the big speeds are dependent on finding a powerful enough charger which, currently, are few and far between.
On anything much less than a 150kw charger the difference in charge times will be much less pronounced.
It’ll still be faster because the curve is more favourable but not spectacularly so.
Most of the time the charger is the limiting factor especially if there are other cars there and the bank of chargers are load sharing between them.
Subject change, but for anyone interested in lead times for new EV’s, I ordered an Audi Q4 eTron in December and have a ready date of 31st May. It enters the production line on the 19th February, so a fairly long build and customs process.
Now going through the process of trying to switch to Octopus and order a home charging point.
I have a referral code which gets each of us £50 if you haven’t got one already.
So we arrived in Eftelling earlier today....
Left the chunnel with 83%...
Planned a lunch stop about 1hr 40 down the road..
Stopped for about 40 min, and added 43kWh at a 150kw charger...
However I can't get the slow ones here to work! I've 4 days to figure it out!
It seems the VAST majority of chargers en route (inc Tesla) top out at 150kw... So the point above makes sense.
DrP
It seems the VAST majority of chargers en route (inc Tesla) top out at 150kw…
That’s not the charger. That’s the car. Polestar 2 maxes out at 150kW innit.
Unless you meant that there were mostly 150kw chargers everywhere which is exactly what you meant now that I re-read it.
As you were.
Carry on 😀😀😀😀💪🏾
Yeah... Chargers were 150... Well.. The tesla at the chunnel was 175... But.... Whatever...
DrP
Back on bottom of Page 135 I posted up about taking an MG EV XPower out for a test drive (quite nippy) and ordering my new MG HS 1.5 DCT motability car as my VW Tiguan was due to go back, I picked up my MG today and drove it 30 miles home, if anyone is thinking of buying one………Don’t, just don’t, take the bus instead. If you could buy a car on temu the the MG HS is what I imagine you’d end up getting delivered.
I would have ordered another Tiguan specced as mine was but they are now £3299+ down payment which I don’t have, I also checked every other car/suv manufacturer on motability that had a similar seat height and spec to my Tiguan and the cheapest was £2000+, again out of my budget. The MG had a very similar spec to my Tiguan and similar seat height but was £0 down payment, so was the only option.
Cool story eh? 😉
ps, don’t buy one, don’t even bother test driving one, if you walk past an MG showroom then I advise turning around and finding another route
And, fundamentally, I don’t want to buy another Tesla because of Elon Musk.
I wouldn't either for the same reason but there's plenty of good alternatives now. Also if you register it before April 1st 2025 you won't be paying the additional £390 luxury vehicle supplement (at least not until they change their mind). I agree though lease costs are insane for mid-high end EVs and very difficult to justify unless you're doing a lot of miles but can home charge/cheap away charge for most of it to claw some of the money back.
@Flaperon - your experience is unfortunately now the same as mine. I have become so disillusioned with the EV market that i have bought an ICE car again. I have been an early adapter of EV's and on my second Tesla over 8 years. I have noticed the Tesla charging points getting busier and busier and have queued twice this week at Marks Tey in Colchester, i've queued at numerous services up and down the UK, something that didn't happen even two years ago.
The time saved by not queuing at chargers or waiting 40 minutes to get enough charge to get home is now noticeable. I have a Toyota Hilux Invincible now that i use which runs Adblue Diesel so as clean as it comes all things considered. I get practically double the mileage from it compared to the long range Model Y and it's slightly cheaper than electric. A real shame, but 8 years averaging 30k miles a year i feel gives me enough experience. to comment..... if someone could do a real world 550 mile battery (in winter) then i'd consider them as a viable alternative
I have a Toyota Hilux Invincible now that i use which runs Adblue Diesel so as clean as it comes all things considered.
Lol what
I get practically double the mileage from it compared to the long range Model Y and it’s slightly cheaper than electric.
Umm...
Always enjoy reading (most of this thread). Lots of experience on here. So let me ask a question. We have one EV (MG4) and my 4 year old Skoda Koraq which is PCP/due back Sept. Things we know/need
- can't go down to one car (I know someone will say you can, but it's a no for this next car cycle. Maybe after that)
- replacement for the Skoda needs to have towbar but only for bike rack (and no I do not want to put dirty bikes in cars, been there do not want to re-do, other reasons I need towbar as well but not for any heavy towing)
- 10,000 miles a year, we have a home charger, I rarely nowadays do over 200 miles in a day but sometimes away at universities around that distance so would need to charge somewhere. I'd say tho based on analysis of last year 90% charging could be done at home with a range of 250-270ish
- Don't need to buy new. Not interested in owning. So Molgrips PCP thread was helpful.
- Sizewise, me and the better half mostly now. Occasionally collect a grown up offspring and all their belongings but Koraq was a good size. Could prob go smaller. Hatch for dog useful, or estate. No need for SUV, would rather have estate but not so many EVs.
I'm torn between getting something like an Ionic or even the MG electric estate or thinking maybe better to wait a few years and either buy Koraq at end of PCP deal (it's been fine) or chop it for something else ICE.
I'd rather go electric but for all the new models etc, I'm just not finding anything that's making me think 'yep that's the solutoom'
I have a Toyota Hilux Invincible now that i use which runs Adblue Diesel so as clean as it comes all things considered.
All things? Really?
Alex -- hybrid possibly, and then re-evaluate in another couple of years time.
Towbar and the like are a big hassle as far as I can see -- not impossible, but likes of VW ID3 can't even support roof bars and > 4 travellers, as it's not rated for that (as far as I understand).
if someone could do a real world 550 mile battery (in winter) then i’d consider them as a viable alternative
I think I see where you are coming from. The longest trip I "regularly" do is to see the in-laws (e.g. at Christmas) and it's a 530 mile trip. So a 550 mile (winter) range EV sounds like a winner.
But the battery is always going to be the most expensive and heaviest component on an EV. Does it really make sense to spec that to cope with the journeys that only happen a few times a year?
In truth, even the most efficient 530-mile trip to the in-laws involves at least two stops with a total stopped time of at least an hour. (and that's pushing it). If public chargers were plentiful enough that I could immediately plug in at every stop and charging were fast enough that I could do, say 10-80% in 30 minutes, would I really need more than, say, a 250 mile range?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that long range sounds desirable but isn't that just because the charging infrastructure isn't there (yet)?
This is all from the point of view of someone who has never owned an EV though, so I'm happy to be corrected by those who have.
I get practically double the mileage from it compared to the long range Model Y and it’s slightly cheaper than electric.
Umm…
Probably means the range, it's probably 600-700 miles for a diesel hilux.
And 'slightly cheaper', i guess it's possible if you're doing long journeys and having to charge at 85p/kwh regularly? It's just not quite the right tool for that job just yet.
Probably means the range, it’s probably 600-700 miles for a diesel hilux.
Yes, but the range of an EV and the range of an ICE are different concepts, really. It doesn't really matter for ICEs, and it doesn't really matter for an EV if you can home charge, and it's over abou 250 miles. Because you can stop and recharge. It almost sounds like they didn't realise you don't have to stop and queue at Tesla chargers - you can charge anywhere.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that long range sounds desirable but isn’t that just because the charging infrastructure isn’t there (yet)?
I think it is. On my regular stretch of M4 we had two or three chargers at each service station a year ago, now we have probably 50 in a 100 mile stretch, plus maybe 30 Tesla-only ones. And there are loads and loads more just off the motorway.
The biggest annoyance is reliability, which is improving as most new charger are new units; and the reporting of which chargers are free as this often seems to crap out.
the charging infrastructure isn’t there (yet)?
It is and it isn’t.
Stick to the motorway network or built up areas and there are usually plenty of chargers.
Motorway ones are highly dependent on how busy the network is.
I’d happily drive the 600 odd miles to Cornwall on a Tuesday in February but wouldn’t dare on a Saturday in July or August. There just aren’t enough chargers to cope with peak demand yet.
The longest trip I “regularly” do is to see the in-laws (e.g. at Christmas) and it’s a 530 mile trip. So a 550 mile (winter) range EV sounds like a winner.
But the battery is always going to be the most expensive and heaviest component on an EV. Does it really make sense to spec that to cope with the journeys that only happen a few times a year?
at least two stops with a total stopped time of at least an hour.
Also add in the several hours if not longer that the car is stopped whilst at the in-laws. As EV adoption becomes more common it's not too far off in the future that you'd be able to plug in whilst you're there more often than not, so the battery is full again for the return journey. If you're stopping for a couple of days then a granny charger is perfectly viable assuming you've got access and a long enough lead etc.
And, fundamentally, I don’t want to buy another Tesla because of Elon Musk.
Just in case anyone is in any doubt about full self drive not working as Musk claimed.
https://electrek.co/2024/02/13/tesla-worker-died-horrible-crash-full-self-driving-beta-but-drunk/
No car company has taken up Tesla’s offer to license FSD.In an earnings call, Elon Musk said it might be because they “still don’t believe it’s real.” He claimed that Tesla is still in talks with other automakers to license the advanced driver-assist feature, that despite the misleading name still requires driver’s to pay attention to the road while using.
"Still in talks"
It's probably at the level of cold calling sales now.
Alex — hybrid possibly, and then re-evaluate in another couple of years time.
Towbar and the like are a big hassle as far as I can see — not impossible, but likes of VW ID3 can’t even support roof bars and > 4 travellers, as it’s not rated for that (as far as I understand)
@kcal - I did look at hybrid last time around but even then, 4 years ago, it felt like transitional technology. Having said that quite a lot of my driving used to be 10 miles or less (because of where we live and nothing being close) but we tend to use the EV for those trips nearly all the time now.
I expect I'll do nothing about it and either buy the Koraq or use the equity in it (quite a lot, great deal when I bought it, quite strong residuals) and buy a 2 year old Octavia estate. I'm a man of a certain age 😉
Anyone want to buy a Leaf?
Have you gone for the Ioniq 5? One thing I meant to ask, which battery has it got? And some of the flashier ‘nice to haves’ that are standard now were extras when it first came out.
Nah. I just realised that I preferred the Ioniq we used to have, so I'm seeing if I can swap it 🙂
It's an Acenta, which means it has adaptive cruise and auto braking, auto wipers and rear view, blind spot warning, heat pump, satnav, the telematics module so it can do live map updates and live traffic routing etc (if you subscribe). It's the 40kWh model.
I meant which Ioniq 5 battery… go for it, you won’t regret it. (Maybe the finance manager will…)
Hi Flaperon, I'd be able to use the referral code for Octopus, please DM if it's available ta!
Hi Flaperon, I’d be able to use the referral code for Octopus, please DM if it’s available ta!
Sent, thanks!
Update.... The OTA performance upgrade is installing as we speak! Will be interesting to feel the difference on the return leg to the UK on Friday! But exciting times!
DrP
A quick question on public charging if I may - I dont do it very often, but had cause to over the weekend coming back from birmingham to manchester.
The car worked out that it would need a charge to get home, so it directed me to a bank of 350kw ionity chargers just off the m6 near stafford. I got there and two were out of order (but thats not the point of this question), I plugged in for a quick 10 minute top up , but the rate of charge was only 80kw, nowhere near the 110kw max that the car should be able to take. Is this pretty typical? The battery was going from 25% to 40% charge, and the car had pre warmed the battery ready for the charge, so I presume it was the charger limiting the current , not the car- but maybe it could have been the car? All the other chargers were in use at the time.
It wasnt a big deal that it only charged at 80kw rather than the 110kw, just wondering if I should set my expectation for 80kw charging usually?
In my experience over approaching 3 years of running an EV, but with limited public charging experience, this is fairly typical. My car handles a max of 75kW and I've only once seen that at a charger that was rated to deliver 150kW.
As I understand it, the chargers monitor the local DNO and vary the charge rate in line with what the local grid can deliver. I've always taken the maximum charge rate with an enormous pinch of salt.
so I presume it was the charger limiting the current , not the car- but maybe it could have been the car?
It could have been either.
The max charging rate of the car is just that. A maximum rate which is at the top of a variable charging curve. The battery will accept different rates of charge at different temps, battery %’s etc.
The Fastned website will show the charging curve for your particular car.
A Mustang mach-e for example will only hit its max charging speed below 20% and then drop to 80kw as shown above
The chargers themselves can also throttle speed based on demand
In this instance my money is on it being the car rather than the charger though. Ionity are usually reliably quick in my experience.
I plugged in for a quick 10 minute top up , but the rate of charge was only 80kw, nowhere near the 110kw max that the car should be able to take.
Fairly typical yes. Whilst your car does attempt to warm the battery it may not be able to get it to the perfect temperature as you're driving because of course that takes power from your driving. Then the charger itself may be able to supply 110kW but some of that power goes to heating or cooling the battery - although a 30kW shortfall seems like a lot. But whatever the reason it seems that cars always fall short of their theoretical max by a fair chunk. I've seen nearly 49kW on my 50kW rated car, but only for about 5 mins then it started to drop.
Ionity are usually reliably quick in my experience.
It must depend on the site though. Does somewhere with twelve 150kW chargrers and a bank of 8 200kW Tesla chargers really have a 3.4MW supply?
Does somewhere with twelve 150kW chargrers and a bank of 8 200kW Tesla chargers really have a 3.4MW supply?
Of course not. The chances of every charger being occupied by a car at the same time which is able to draw power fast enough to meet that peak demand is negligible. They do load sharing between chargers to balance supply and demand.
One small consideration that I have found with our Kia is that if, as an example, your car comes off the road because of water/ice and headbutts a load of logs/wood at the bottom of a pretty severe ditch (just as an example you understand...), there is a lot of anxiety while you wait to find out if the people assessing it will write it off due to damage to the batter compartment.
Have spoken to a lot of mechanics and there is a general lack of experience and knowledge around this amazing new tech, so when they see even cosmetic damage, they get a bit scared and don't want to take the risk that the car will explode in their workshop.
Luckily our Niro only needs plastic replacing (snow is soft) and some sensors replaced (logs are not) and we only have to worry about a three month lead time for repairs.
In this instance my money is on it being the car rather than the charger though. Ionity are usually reliably quick in my experience.
The car is a merc eqc, and according to the graphs I can find online, it should support >100kw charging from slightly above 0 up to about 50%, from which point it starts to decrease
.. under optimum conditions...
under optimum conditions…
yes, but conditions seemed pretty optimum to me at the time. Not cold outside (15c) , car had warmed the battery, and had driven about 60 miles before stopping to charge, battery was being charged from 25% to 42%, was plugged into a 350kw charger.
Not a big deal , just working out whether this is likely to be typical , I dont public charge often enough to make a judgement using my own experiences...
4.5 years of 100% charging on the public DC charger network (altho mostly on the same public chargers near work) and yes your experience is pretty much what I've experienced. Only once in that time has a car maxed out at 172kw that was a model3 SR on ionity at gretna green services. I don't think I ever had a Tesla supercharger anywhere near it's supposed max rate. Reasons are as already stated by people above. Battery temp and where your soc is already I've assumed to be the main reasons in car, and throttling by the DNO at the other end I've assumed.
I understand there are DC chargers now that have battery storage buffer and can allot your car what its capable of taking. Can't remember the name.
I was parked next to an EQC at Ionity Glasgow a few weeks back and was surprised how slowly it was charging. I was there 20 minutes and put 50kWh in. I saw on the display that they had been there 35 minutes and put in 20kWh. It looked like our starting SoC had been similar, around 20%.
I don’t think I ever had a Tesla supercharger anywhere near it’s supposed max rate.
My old Tesla did a few times… this was at Fort William once
But whatever the reason it seems that cars always fall short of their theoretical max by a fair chunk.
That’s not really been my experience. Pretty much every time I’ve used a 350kw charger the car has taken the electrons at close to top speed, assuming battery preheating.
Having said that it’s rarely been in Winter so the ambient temperature has usually been in my favour.
Have spoken to a lot of mechanics and there is a general lack of experience and knowledge around this amazing new tech, so when they see even cosmetic damage, they get a bit scared and don’t want to take the risk that the car will explode in their workshop.
Mate runs a bodyshop with 3 staff (insurance approved etc) and he doesn't touch ev repairs, not worth the hassle.
I've seen >200kw only a few times, Ionity in France and once at Gridserve in UK. All in the summer with air temps >20 deg c (no pre-heating on my car).
Even in what you would think are ideal conditions I've never seen more than 160kw on the Ionity network in the UK so I wonder if they throttle it.
Anything over 150kw is a game changer as barely enough time for a loo stop, but it is frustrating how much both the car's and the charger's BMS vary the speeds you actually get on any one given day.
I've used the fort William ones a couple of times on the same day as making the long journey north and remember not getting more than 80kw, possibly it's a time of day thing with some banks of chargers or pot louck.
To add to what I said above, I have had the local 75kw osprey chargers max out once or twice in two years of maybe 2x a week charging. Anyhow, I've now bought my own EV so will be charging at home from now on.
thanks all, interesting stuff, seems like pot luck as to what you might get then. I did have a look on zap map at the comments for the chargers I used and there was a recent'ish comment saying they were a bit slow.
Found an Ioniq 38kWh relatively local for a good price. It would cost me a bit more than the Leaf, per month, but it's a much more useful car, more comfortable, better equipped and much better technology. Decision time...
out of interest, how much is an Ioniq?
My OH now has the LEAF, which suits her perfectly as she jsut does localish trips, or can drive to her folks (who have an EV charger).
I'm loving the Polestar - not the most efficient EV, but the range and comforts are phenomenal. Gonna make a separate thread about my 600+ miles trip through Europe in a bit!
DrP
£12-13k mostly.
Agree that electric motoring is better by far.
As an aside, someone's started parking a Zoe on the road near us. It's white, with some blue details and a slight blue tint on the side windows - looks really good!
Nice!
This is an interesting video talking about highway chargers.. (the rest of his videos are awesome too!)
It's American, and I didn't realize the us Tesla have a different plug.. over here I'm sure it's all CCS...
Interesting to understand that often it's not the car, but the charger, throttling the charge due to being stuck to 200amps max..
DrP
US charging is a mess, there are several standards or even proprietary plugs, however there is now some sort of concession that they will all use the same one going forward. But that doesn't help the cars that have already been sold so it's still a mess.
Did a bit more reading. The Ioniq has a.LFP battery which means it's more robust than others as well as more eco friendly. It's also liquid cooled and heated. That makes it a much better proposition for long term ownership. However (and I didn't realise this before) the charging curve is terrible, with a 10-80% time of 54 minutes. The only time I ever needed a big charge in the last car I also needed dinner. Seems poor given the heating and cooling capability. Even the Leaf can beat that with no cooling at all.
But if you're mainly home charging, does it REALLY matter?
DrP
But if you’re mainly home charging, does it REALLY matter?
No, hence reserving it. One stop of 45 mins or whatever is no issue, that means a North Wales trip is perfectly feasible - the extra range gives enough buffer to deal with the lack of chargers in mid Wales. A proper long trip like say going to Germany this summer would still require the diesel.
Even the Leaf can beat that with no cooling at all.
The Leaf also has poor battery life. Fast charging a hot battery leads to premature battery deterioration. Cars with charge rates beyond 100kW for 100 kWh of battery capacity deteriotated faster in the early days of EVs, notably the Leaf with 50kW Chademo with a 23kWh battery. I'll be interested to see how more recent cars with high charge rates hold up. However, cars with lower charge rates are holding up very well, early Teslas and Zoés in particular though that may have something to do with the qulatity of the batteries used too:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/battery-life-uncertainty-prompts-concern-over-used-evs
Pau to Poland in a Zoé that was adding around 200km in an hour even on the hottest days which was fine Molgrips, about 3-4 hrs of charging each day (about 800km a day) and a charge at destination each day. Three or four breaks corresponded to what a truck driver would have take in terms of rest by law, similar driving speed.
The Leaf also has poor battery life.
From hanging around on the FB group the consensus seems to be that the first two model years, 2011-2013 were the worst, but they gradually bring in software changes to manage charging and discharging. Then the 30kWh model is worse again, not sure why. They seem to be the cars to avoid. Then the 40kWh one has good battery longevity, but again at the expense of usability since they can overheat on long trips with multiple rapid charging and force you to slow down even in a typical UK summer.
Three or four breaks corresponded to what a truck driver would have take in terms of rest by law,
30mins in 6hrsbor 45mins for 9hrs ? El rapido charging
My Leaf seems to think it's battery is doing pretty well after 176000 kms. Leafs in hot countries do not do well though.
You can't even charge a lot of modern cars to a true 100% as the battery is capped capacity wise
You can’t even charge a lot of modern cars to a true 100% as the battery is capped capacity wise
That is standard these days.
Our i3 still seems to be doing well at 80000mi - it's advertised as a 33kWh battery, but is actually 27.2kWh. In winter, we still get 120 miles and in summer it's over 140miles, so 4.4mi/kwh or 5.2mi/kWh. So it can't have decreased much.
You're right on driving times, trailrat, I travel a lot by coach with school kids and thought the frequent breaks were a legal obligation. They're not, just company practice it would appear.
I travel a lot by coach with school kids and thought the frequent breaks were a legal obligation
I think it's different for people driving passengers rather than goods, no?
I think it’s different for people driving passengers rather than goods, no?
It is not.
Has the ID.7 tourer been done yet?
Looks.... Great!
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electric-and-hybrid/electric-cars/id7-tourer.html
However (and I didn’t realise this before) the charging curve is terrible, with a 10-80% time of 54 minutes.
the charging speed of my Ioniq seemed to significantly improve after a software update. Depending on mileage check that the ionic you look at has had the recall work done on the battery coolant system. There was an issue with the coolant crystallising and blocking the pump and pipe work. We managed to time the recall to the expensive coolant replacement service. Having this done also improved charge times, I suspect because the car could heat / cool the battery better.
Good to know, thanks.
Interesting, but that range estimate is complete and utter rubbish.
I drive a Passat estate and in theory this is the car to replace it
In practice, it's a massive (more than 50%) price increase over the Passat, and given how awful the ID4 is to drive, the absolutely garbage infotainment setup, the near unusable haptic controls and the ropey braking, I just can't see any reason for buying the ID7. They've lost me as a customer for sure.
given how awful the ID4 is to drive, the absolutely garbage infotainment setup, the near unusable haptic controls and the ropey braking
Have you driven an ID4 much? Just wondering, as I've been driving one for 3 years, including taking it on road trips over 1000 miles each way and it's definitely not conforming to that description. Yes it's an SUV, so probably not going to be comparable handling wise to a Golf but it's definitely not awful. The version 3 software was an improvement over V2 and improved range and charging curve.
If you're after an estate and an EV there still isn't much option, other than an ID.7. The MG5 has an surprisingly small boot so isn't as practical as I'd hoped. The i7 touring looks like £70k+ and I'd expect the e-tron A6 Avant to be similarly priced. Hopefully there'll be some others coming through, but SUVs seem to be more popular these days.
willrab
Have you driven an ID4 much?
Drove one for a week. Found it really crashy and uncomfortable over bumps (roads where i live are pretty crap), mainly just the weight of it I'd say, but just not nice to drive. The braking I found wildly inconsistent, sometimes it slowed you down, sometimes it didn't and you had to stamp on the brake. Turning regen all they way down helped somewhat, but really didn't like that inconsistency...and the lane assist resisting my steering is another thing I couldn't live with on rural roads, fair enough, you can turn that off. Aside from that, the steering wheel controls that either didn't work, or worked when you didn't want them were another standout - such a stupid, backward step compared to the same controls with normal buttons on the Passat. And then the infotainment screen/interface which is absolute garbage in every way. Stepping out of a Passat that's ten years older into an all new platform that's actually a step backwards - that shouldn't happen.
Fair enough if you like it, but for the price, I think it's an absolute dumpster fire of a car.
the absolutely garbage infotainment setup, the near unusable haptic controls
VW have admitted they got that very wrong so expect some major changes. I doubt that car will be released with the same setup.
Nearly got an ID5 rather than an Ioniq5. Reading some of the issues with the VW EV line up (here and elsewhere) I’m so glad I didn’t. Looks like VW need to find their way again. Hopefully the ID7 is the start of that: looks on paper like a good car (except the price!)