They'd need it fully funded by central government to even consider it. Most councils are struggling to provide the legal bare minimum services these days, funding something like kerb-side EV charging infrastructure just isn't feasible.
In this version the ask isn't on councils to provide it - it's for them to allow it. If you live in a terraced house and want to install a charger, at present the hurdles make it a real faff, even if the council allows it full stop. A quick google suggests about £1000 for a cross pavement gulley, on top I assume of the £900 odd for the charger itself. So double, but not impossible if you want to have a home charger.
But at present you need the same approval granted as if you were digging the whole road up, for a job that takes under 2 hours. Incl, so the article says, a £2900 fee for the application.
Now, councils might be thinking cha-ching! to overcome their deficits but that's another matter. It should be permitted development, just get on with it.
I saw these E motorbike guys at the Excel at the weekend https://international.naxeontech.com/
They are being sold from a distributor from the Wirral. Looks great and would be a decent choice of commuting vehicle.
Ive finally settled on a Indra smart lux charger for home which should work with either car or bike in the future.
I liked the idea that I could charge conventionally or by wall charger plus I could take the batteries out to render the bike less value.
I found it ironic from some of the rest of the chats people complaining about charging points then not thinking of solutions like these. It means you can keep your old ICE car for longer, but use EV for shorter journeys like commuting and me just getting around North Somerset because it's filled with Nimby's lol
Have you seen the flying flea:
https://flyingflea.royalenfield.com/uk/en/home
The Naxeon looks like a two wheeled C5 lol but cool. I liked the retro classic look to be honest but the thing that sold me was the removable batteries to charge out of the bike at the office 😉 and no queues or fights for the EV points that i see lol
JeZ
Just started with a new company a few weeks ago and the company car policy is fairly open, however most of the relatively small fleet are EV's. So, it appears I might end up going down that route. I'm still not sold on EV's as this job can entail 250+ miles in a day and I'd rather not drive with range anxiety. However, one of the guys in the team recently took delivery of a Renault Scenic EV. Very nice car tbh, and he regularly gets over 250 miles between charges. So he says.
It completely dis-incentivises EV adoption. Both from an electricity cost and availability perspectiv. How would you ever be able to guarantee an overnight charge ahead of needing your car next morning, when 1 lamp post point has to serve what, 5+ cars either side on a terrace row?
Yeah it's not ideal. In theory it shouldn't be so much of an issue: 57% of cars do less than 100 miles a week, so would probably only need charging a couple of times a month? In practise, I can see it there being people like those weird obsessives who insist on having their parking space right ouside their house. They'd hog the lamp post every night, just in case they unexpectedly need to drive to Aberdeen tomorrow
I'm still not sold on EV's as this job can entail 250+ miles in a day and I'd rather not drive with range anxiety
Then don't. On the motorway network, recharging is an absolute doddle. If I drive 2hrs to my office I pass something like 100 chargers each way.
On the motorway network, recharging is an absolute doddle
Agreed... Having just driven several hundred miled from East Sussex, Chunnel, France, Belguim, and to the Netherlands, and back... The limiting factor in 'making non stop progress' was bladders and bellies!
My car realistically does about 220 miles at motorway speeds fully packed, and i was literally getting frustrated at how fast the 'expensive motorway services electricity' was going into the car whilst we grabbed a bite and a pee! I was hoping to charge for cheap(er... 50cent compared to 64cent) at my destination!
DrP
EDIT - as a counter to teh EV situation - the only time I think i'd miss my Octavia (which could get near to 550 miles from a tank) is when I've got a few bikes on the roof. EVs are so efficient, that anything that deducts from that efficiency REALLY eats into the range...
I reckon with 2 bikes on the roof, my range (motorway speed) would drop to 150 miles.. This could make cross country biking trips a bit more of a faff.
DrP
Motorways not too bad. The issue is when you are in an 'EV desert' like the North Yorkshire coast. A recent journey to cornwall was fine with plenty of chargers on the way (although i wonder what it would be like in summer - waiting a lot?) but going to Scarborough only yields a couple of fast chargers. This was ok in December, but I can imagine this will be a real struggle in the holidays.I'm still not sold on EV's as this job can entail 250+ miles in a day and I'd rather not drive with range anxiety
Then don't. On the motorway network, recharging is an absolute doddle. If I drive 2hrs to my office I pass something like 100 chargers each way.
The deployment of chargers is getting better, but there are still large areas with poor coverage.
A recent journey to cornwall was fine with plenty of chargers on the way (although i wonder what it would be like in summer - waiting a lot?)
We drove to Cornwall from Manchester last August, charging was fine. Set off on Saturday am, First stop at Gloucester Services for breakfast and used the tesla chargers, second stop at Exeter but found they were all busy, so carried on for another 50 miles or soto some tesla chargers in small village in Cornwall. Once we arrived in Fowey I plugged it into some slow chargers in the public car park for an overnight charge
Did the reverse on the way back, it was all pretty uneventful.
Discovered an issue with my EV yesterday.
My dad is pretty ill at present and at one point yesterday i thought i may need to rush off on a 230 mile trip to the hospital. My car would do that in one go but i wouldnt have much left and i would be desperate for a recharge. However i only had 70% in at the time so i would have needed a charge before setting off as well.
In the end i had my wifes car as back up instead so no issue. It all came to nothing as i wasnt needed to travel but it highlighted that i could have been in a bit of a pickle as i sometimes run it for a week on 50% or less. I also dont think having to stop for 45mins charge on a last second mission to see my dying father is a good state of affairs.
Anyhow, it didnt come to that and i had a back up but for 10 minutes i was trying to fathom how i was going to do it.
I made a similar point earlier in the thread. Its all very well making jokes about how people always think they need to drive to Aberdeen towing a caravan non stop etc but actually if your car is sitting on 50-60% which is fairly common and you need to do an emergency dash of 200+ miles which is also fairly common then it could easily be 2 charges plus needing to find one when you get there which might not be convenient depending on the situation. I too have very elderly parents four counties away, as I expect many do here who can call me in the middle of the night and I need to jump in the car. I also have a vulnerable daughter who is studying on the other side of the country and the only way she can do that is knowing I'm an emergency car journey away.
Its not the planned journeys that are the issue - I'd happily set out for the Netherlands or Germany on holiday without a second thought, its the unplanned ones....
Discovered an issue with my EV yesterday.
My dad is pretty ill at present and at one point yesterday i thought i may need to rush off on a 230 mile trip to the hospital.
I would hope this isn't a regular occurrence, and if your dad has been ill for a little while, that's *probably* something you should plan for.
i.e. leave the car at 90% charge, set the charge target to that as well and leave it connected (it's not going to do any damage to the car). Then as soon as you know you've got to leave, knock the limit up to 100%, pack your shit and leave when it's at 93%.
Or have a back up, partners car, access to a hire car etc. Know where the chargers are at your destination and so on.
It's only an "issue" in that we've got incredibly used to the 100% availability and 3-5 minute refill time on ICE cars.
If either of my parents fall ill it's essentially a minimum of 24 hours to get to them, more likely 48... So i do feel your pain!
Have you got zero access to another car Winston? In my instance it was more a case of me having not considered it before. Once i had given it some thought it became apparent i needed to use the alternative car. In the grand scheme of things, it didnt effect owning a EV for me and i suspect a huge majority of EV owners too.
but for 10 minutes i was trying to fathom how i was going to do it.
How much charge could you have put in the car in that 10 mins at your cars peak charging rate?
In that situation i’d have spent that 10 minutes hooked up to a 350kw charger somewhere along the way and whacked 40 odd percent into the battery.
16.66kw at 100kw/h. Not really enough to make a major impact on having to charge again.
Without the emergency situation its easy. I am driving down tomorrow. Have a stop at 150 miles to top back up which will take about 30 mins to put 50kw in. Drive a further 100 miles to destination and arrive with 150 miles range. Do my visit, come back to same charger with 50 miles range left. Put in about 75kw which will take about 45mins and travel back.
It was extremely last minute and that was the only reason i highlighted the issue. It hadnt occurred to me. Not even an issue going forward.
The Polestar managed 2.8miles/KWh while in my care and I drove it like my gran.
I lost count of the number of times it failed to unlock with the fob and the various software issues included the dash not powering up, the heads up display not working despite the main display saying it was on, the cameras not initialising, the car losing the fob in the time it took me to open the door and sit in the drivers seat and other faults that I can’t remember off the top of my head.
The Pilot Assist is really good when it works.
Polestar 2 here since the start of December so for balance.
I have done 4000 miles in really crappy weather. I live in a hilly part of Cumbria where my old mpg was always noticeably lower than when I was staying in other parts of the country. I travel mainly between Manchester and central belt Scotland. The car has managed 3.5miles/KWh and too often the ease of the speed means I am not driving like my Nan.
Absolutely no issues to report so far
Bit of advice wanted/sanity check. My wife's MG4 (standard range) is on a 2 year PCP contract finishing May. We've been really happy with it other than its incessant bonging and the mildly annoying info system. We're not interested in buying the contract (it's prob worth at least 20% less than the settlement price).
We're sticking with electric. She'd like a rear wiper and heated seats, and MG are keen to keep our custom. They've offered us some very good deals on the Trophy which has both of these.. Apparently the MG4 is going to get refreshed soon-ish but she's happy with the car if it had those extras. She also is thinking of the longer range which is mad as 95% of the time we home charge and we have my trusty Skoda ICE as well. Which I need to change but that's another post.
We did look at what else came in near/close to the deal MG have offered. Not much is the answer, maybe the new R5 but she doesn't like that at all (whereas I love it, but it's not my car/choice).
I really cannot be a$$$$d to go car shopping if I don't have to. MG does loads of short journeys, a few longer (120ish return) and a very occasional 250+. It's done 16k in two years and we don't expect that to increase. We've also two big doggos that need to fit in any replacement but again it's only for 15 mins max, once or twice a day. As you can see they are very happy with the MG4!
so TLDR- go car shopping (maybe look 2nd hand) or take the deal that seems to be better than anything else we can get with the stuff we want. I think you can probably tell what my view is...
You don’t say what the total cost for running an MG4 for two years and 16,000 miles was, but I think that’s the crucial part.
Look at what it would cost to buy, say, a two year old MG4 trophy with less than 20k on the clock. Then look at the price of a four year old one with less than 40k (or 1 and 3 years at 10k vs 30k if you prefer). How does that compare with what it would cost on a PCP deal?
That's a good shout. I think "not much" based on our Octopus Tariff but I have all that data in my Home Automation stats 🙂 We could certainly buy a used one for cash if a lot of its value has already gone. I'd expect we'd keep it at least 3 years and then give it to one of the offspring.
Definitely worth investigating.
An engineer who works for me has had a Polestar 2 for few years now. His other car is a nice 911. No complaints from him, nor the other people I know with them, but he's a decent reference point.
(Engineer in this context means senior, mechanical and electrical, not software or other faux )
LRDM Polestar driver here. its an early model so NOT super efficient (we had an eNiro prior to the P2) but I knew that would be the case and in reality it costs a couple of quid more a week to run. cracking car only let down but its shoddy infotainment system.
Polestar 2 LRDM with performance upgrade here... running Bridgestone all lseason tyres on 19" rims (which, i think, has stolen a bit of range..)
Did a 700+ mile round trip to the netherlands and back last week..averaged 35.6kWh/100miles... so just under 3miles/kWh.
I knew the polestar wasn't the most efficient car, but in reality didn't really affect the drive as we had to stop to pee and eat.
Also...this wednesday I spent the morning in a DIY garage type place (which was SOOO much fun, and something I've always wanted to do!) taking out the old suspension components and fitting KW coilovers! Just cos!
Yeah, I'm a big kid at heart really!
DrP
Can't wait for Mert's response.....
So I did my first home charge with my Ohme Home Pro, scheduled overnight on intelligent Octopus go. It duly charged up as expected but the charger appears to be dead. I've turned it off and on again but the display is blank and the buttons do nothing. Arse.
So I did my first home charge with my Ohme Home Pro, scheduled overnight on intelligent Octopus go. It duly charged up as expected but the charger appears to be dead. I've turned it off and on again but the display is blank and the buttons do nothing. Arse.
You can set it in the app to lock the charger so it can't be tampered with, presume you haven't done this?
You can set it in the app to lock the charger so it can't be tampered with, presume you haven't done this?
Nope! And I can't change any settings because the app shows the charger as offline.
Nope! And I can't change any settings because the app shows the charger as offline.
Have you tried rebooting the charger by turning the circuit breaker that supplies it off for 30 seconds then back on again?
I've had to do this once with mine when it got itself into a locked state
Ohme technical.support number is 020 4571 0520, my installer called them when mine appeared to be faulty on arrival on first powering up. They did a remote reset and update, it's been fine since. Id.suggest giving them a call.
I also dont think having to stop for 45mins charge on a last second mission to see my dying father is a good state of affairs.
That is likely to be me in a few years' time. It will not stop me getting an EV. I will leave my car charged during that period but it will take as long as it takes to get there. Sure, I could save 30 minutes if I had a diesel, but I could also save 90 by moving closer. Plus there could be traffic. I could also save 10 minutes by driving as fast as I possibly could everywhere but I am not going to do that. Same as I am not going to pollute everywhere I go on the off-chance that 30 minutes makes a difference once in a lifetime.
I don't mean to be callous but I feel like we are subject to fate.
I think people forget about the pollution they are causing in an ICE vehicle and the impact that poor air quality has on the health of others and the media has polarised the discussion it into a lifestyle choice one.
We still have petrol car and a new to me EV, so not taking sides. Taking the EV plunge is daunting but it will become the new norm for me. I understand that range is a worry, but having driven down to Cornwall from the NW, with a bit a planning, it was not really any more inconvenient having to add another stop on the way and this is with a car that has a 180 mile real world range.
An environmental guilt free trip for me !
However, if I was to buy a motorbike, it wouldn't be electric, it would be an old 2 stroke 🙄.
EV's aren't as environmentally guilt free as you might think at first impressions. The CO2 in producing a new one isn't insignificant; volvo's analysis of the EX30 suggests about 14-18 tonnes [1]. By my calculations that is equivalent to about 50 000 - 70 000 miles in a diesel car doing 45 mpg. So for folks cranking up really high mileages, it is a definate environmental win - although the practicalities may be limiting for some use cases. However, for people doing lower milage, keeping an old petrol or diesel running is likely better.
There also isn't zero environmetal impact from running an EV. The UK grid relies on a significant amount of gas generation. When I did the sums comparing an ID buzz to a diesel caddy for motorway usage, for a given journey the CO2 for carging the buzz would be around 1/4 the diesel in the caddy. So, a lot better, but still not entirely guilt free. I really want an excuse to get a buzz but running the caddy until it dies is the lower CO2 option. As ever, the environmentally best solution is to sit at home not going anywhere!
1.
By my calculations that is equivalent to about 50 000 - 70 000 miles in a diesel car doing 45 mpg.
Have you included the CO2 to produce the diesel car?
for a given journey the CO2 for carging the buzz would be around 1/4 the diesel in the caddy.
Including the CO2 to extract, refine and distribute the diesel?
Agree that it's not a simple calculation but you need to make sure you're comparing apples with apples.
By my calculations that is equivalent to about 50 000 - 70 000 miles in a diesel car doing 45 mpg.
Have you included the CO2 to produce the diesel car?
No, because it already exists, which is my point: Running an old ICE vehicle for longer is lower CO2 in a lot of cases than replacing it with a new car or - possibly even worse - adding an EV whilst retaining the old ICE car for long journeys where the EV would be annoying. I'm not arguing that buying a new diesel is lower CO2 than new electric. I wouldn't contemplate buying a new ICE vehicle and support the policies to phase them out.
In terms of the CO2 in diesel, I used the UK Government official conversion factors which should include all lifecycle emmisions. (See https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/647f50dd103ca60013039a8a/2023-ghg-cf-methodology-paper.pdf)
No issues with what have been said, but air pollution from vehicle exhausts isn't just about CO2.
Running an old ICE vehicle for longer is lower CO2 in a lot of cases than replacing it with a new car
Which is relevant only if you are planning to buy a new car specifically because it's electric.
MrsJ is expressing an interest in a road trip to Ireland, specifically Donegal. Anyone got experience of touring that area in an EV? I’m obviously interested in the availability and reliability of charging!!
MrsJ is expressing an interest in a road trip to Ireland, specifically Donegal. Anyone got experience of touring that area in an EV? I’m obviously interested in the availability and reliability of charging!!
no info specifically on Donegal but over here I mainly used ESB chargers when out and about as they have decent coverage. I also use EasyGo occasionally (hotels/lidl). Both are via an app. A quick look on Zapmap.for that area shows a few ESB 50kw+ chargers about.
Even taking your figures, if the construction of the EV is equivalent to 70k miles in a diesel and the EV emits 1/4 of the CO2 of the diesel in use then after under 25k miles the EV would have been better (25k ev miles is equivalent to 100k diesel so that's the 70k ice mile production equivalent and 25k actual diesel miles)
So is it simply that "if you're going to drive 25k more in your ice then it's better to replace it with an EV". Hell no, because that means you'll likely replace the EV sooner than you would have done if you'd kept the ICE for a bit longer but running the ICE until it dies isn't the best solution either. It's complicated to do it objectively and the answers will always depend on individual use cases.
Ignore that - can't edit it now but sums are baloney. don't post and cook at the same time...
EV's aren't as environmentally guilt free as you might think at first impressions. The CO2 in producing a new one isn't insignificant; volvo's analysis of the EX30 suggests about 14-18 tonnes [1]. By my calculations that is equivalent to about50 000 - 70 000 miles in a diesel car doing 45 mpg. So for folks cranking up really high mileages, it is a definate environmental win - although the practicalities may be limiting for some use cases. However, for people doing lower milage, keeping an old petrol or diesel running is likely better.
There also isn't zero environmetal impact from running an EV. The UK grid relies on a significant amount of gas generation. When I did the sums comparing an ID buzz to a diesel caddy for motorway usage, for a given journey the CO2 for carging the buzz would be around 1/4 the diesel in the caddy. So, a lot better, but still not entirely guilt free. I really want an excuse to get a buzz but running the caddy until it dies is the lower CO2 option. As ever, the environmentally best solution is to sit at home not going anywhere!
This has been done to death - the delta from an ICE to an EV of equivalent size is around 8t of CO2. This assuming an 80kWh battery and as such there’s only around 55-70kg of lithium in a 400kg pack.
That 8t delta will be offset in the first 10-15k miles on the UKs current electricity mix which is around 71% renewables and climbing annually.
This doesn’t even include the carbon footprint associated with the extraction, transportation, refining and further transportation of the fuel you need for your ICE. The only way an ICE does not make sense is if you’re running an old car already and doing tiny mileage.
I can’t justify replacing my 330 petrol touring as I only do 1000miles a year and the sunk cost of an EV would be almost 20y at that mileage.
Difficult to know longevity as it's still quite new tech but I've seen estimates of 1500-2000 charge/ discharge cycles before being significantly degraded. A fairly average sized car will probably have a say 200m range, so that is 300-400,000 miles potential lifespan (of course other parts will wear too, possibly faster)
So the 50-70k break even point vs keeping an existing diesel running isn't a fair comparison, as after that 50-70k that will be someone else's second hand car, etc., and creating further credit. Even if the car is eventually scrapped at that point, there will be a second hand market for the battery in eg: home power walls.
No, because it already exists, which is my point: Running an old ICE vehicle for longer is lower CO2 in a lot of cases than replacing it with a new car
We now run two second hand (both 3yo) EVs, didn't create any CO2 building them. Just saving CO2 vs another pre-existing pair of ICE cars.
Point taken on electricity not being CO2 free - currently - but it will largely be eventually, whereas ICE cars will still be burning fuel (maybe biodiesel) but still not avoiding the emission issue.
finally got round to sorting out a new car for my wife. Started looking before Christmas and nearly bought a 1 year old Fiat 500e but it fell through. Today she decided on a Hyundai Inster. You get much more for your money with the Inster plus it’s a bit like a tardis inside for such a small car. Due for delivery start of May. Guess we will be fighting over the home charger now!
However, for people doing lower milage, keeping an old petrol or diesel running is likely better.
That old diesel was new once. So your personal carbon footprint might be lower but this isn't about personal totals it's about the entire world collectively. We can't all buy old cars, someone has to buy new ones so that they can become old, and replace the ones that are being scrapped or crashed.
Of course, keeping cars for longer does indeed reduce emissions of a sort - but also increases other pollution in the air that we breathe in our local environment. So if you are going to buy a new car, make it electric. If you weren't going to buy one - well that's a trickier question. If you buy a new EV then at some point you'll sell it to someone else, so you are increasing the supply of used EVs to people who need a new car but would not otherwise being able to afford an EV...
Anyway. I answered someone's post on an Ioniq Electric FB page about their new car and only after she replied did I realise it was my cousin. Not sure if my posting on the group had raised the profile of EVs with her or it's just a coincidence.
I'm always baffled by the "the most ecologically friendly option is to continue running an older car" as an argument against EVs.*
There is no plan to force everyone to buy new cars and scrap old ones at any rate other than the natural one that already existed.
This is all about displacing new ICE car production with EV car production. EVs should last just as long as ICE cars or not a bit longer as the battery & motor should last longer then an IC engine, however what finally kills off most old cars isn't a.catastrophic engine failure but the increasing bills due to rust and worn parts & some of which are engine related but a lot are suspension, brakes, car electrics etc which are the same for both. So my guess is on a average EVs will be on the road for about 20-30% longer than equivalent ICEs. Only time will tell though.
* The most environmentally friendly option is no car at all, however that is a very different discussion involving lifestyle and societal changes. Arguably EVs are a facilitator / greenwashing perpetuating car use when actually we should be moving away from cara full stop.
The most environmentally friendly option is no car at all, however that is a very different discussion involving lifestyle and societal changes. Arguably EVs are a facilitator / greenwashing perpetuating car use when actually we should be moving away from cara full stop.
Maybe, but not having cars would require VAST infrastructure changes or would consolidate people into cities, whereas spreading us out a bit enables distributed solar and other forms of power generation, which is beneficial.
This is all about displacing new ICE car production with EV car production.
That is one argument - if people are buying new cars anyway, then they should be electric. The other argument is not to buy new cars at all - and fix old ones. Yes, it might be expensive to fix an old car, but it's never as expensive as a new one. The reason people stop fixing old cars is because it's more expensive than changing it - but if fewer new cars were bought, older ones would become more valuable and therefore more likely to be worth fixing. That's the argument being made here.
Persuading everyone not to buy new cars is a really hard sell however, but persuading them to buy an EV should be a lot easier. And an electrified national fleet has many other advantages. There is a long term ideological goal here and a pragmatic short term one.
Anyway - speaking of new cars, the Volvo ES90 looks mint, this might have gone straight in at no 1 for me.
(well done mert)
When it comes to environmental arguments, I find it's quite easy to argue myself around in circles. So, let's take a real-world case. Mine 🙂
I have a 7 year old car (which I've had from new) that has done 150,000 miles. Is it better environmentally for me to keep it for another (say) three years and 60,000 miles, or sell it and buy a second hand EV?
We can assume that, if I sell it, the next owner will probably do a lot less than 60,000 miles over the next three years. I think the average annual mileage in the UK is something like 7,500 but a look at the online MOT data for the last two cars I sold (both around 7 years and 150,000 miles) suggests that they do a lot less than that. I guess a car with a high mileage for its age tends to appeal to somebody who doesn't drive many miles.
I'm currently torn between quite liking the idea of an EV and quite liking the idea of driving a car to 200,000 miles, so this could help to break the tie.
I have a 7 year old car (which I've had from new) that has done 150,000 miles. Is it better environmentally for me to keep it for another (say) three years and 60,000 miles, or sell it and buy a second hand EV?
Given that both cars currently exist then any environmental impact from the manufacture of them has already occurred so, from your perspective, are neutral . Same goes for the ultimate disposal of them at the end of their life, that's going to happen to the environment no matter which you choose.
Which means that it's only the ongoing impact of running the car which counts for your decision... so electric is the environmentally sounder choice, no? Especially if you're planning on doing big miles in it.
You can't really base a decision on an imagined usage by a subsequent owner. It could be a granny going a mile to church once a week or it could be used as a pool car by a county lines drug gang, you have no way of knowing or controlling that.
Given that both cars currently exist then any environmental impact from the manufacture of them has already occurred so, from your perspective, are neutral
Is that true? Surely, if I buy a car off somebody then they have to go and buy a new(er) one. Similarly, if I sell mine to somebody then they probably pass theirs on too. Whether it is me buying (or scrapping) the car, isn't the net result of my decision still that a new car is bought and an old one scrapped? You are right that I have no control over either, but if I don't sell mine (and buy a newer one) then the person above me in the chain won't have the money to buy a new one.
Just dipping in here and not a current EV driver.
So, what is the current used EV equivalent of a used skoda octavia estate please? So cheap, reasonably efficient, massive boot, lob bikes in the back with seats down sort of thing? Ideally proper estate, not rakish hatchbacks or SUVs?
You are right that I have no control over either, but if I don't sell mine (and buy a newer one) then the person above me in the chain won't have the money to buy a new one.
If you can buy a car then someone else has already made the decision to sell it. It doesn't matter if you buy it or not, it'll still get sold regardless and they'll still buy a new one anyway.
If you want to sway someone else's buying decision up the line do you think that someone who's selling a second hand EV is more likely to buy a new EV or a new ICE?
So, what is the current used EV equivalent of a used skoda octavia estate please? So cheap, reasonably efficient, massive boot, lob bikes in the back with seats down sort of thing? Ideally proper estate, not rakish hatchbacks or SUVs?
On paper - MG5
In reality - Kia e-Niro or Hyundai Kona
In reality - Kia e-Niro or Hyundai Kona
Quite a lot smaller though. https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/kia-niro-2021-suv-ev-vs-skoda-octavia-2019-estate/
So, what is the current used EV equivalent of a used skoda octavia estate please? So cheap, reasonably efficient, massive boot, lob bikes in the back with seats down sort of thing? Ideally proper estate, not rakish hatchbacks or SUVs?
Because people = idiots, nearly all larger EVs are SUVish things. I think an MG5 is probably the only used option. There are some new estate options coming through now (VW ID7, a beemer or two), in case a salary sacrifice lease deal is an option.
Ok thanks. No lease or anything. Just sell the van eventually as it's not really used well nowadays and get a used ev estate. So nothing premium, just decent space and cost effective. Will look at the options above, but only the MG5 is an estate by the looks of things.
Does that size comparison above compare internal width as well? My old Qashqai carried one XC 29er better than the Octavia that followed it because it could go in both wheels on and seat post still extended. The Octavia was one wheel off and seat post removed
Surely the EV equivalent of an Octavia is an Enyaq?
Because people = idiots, nearly all larger EVs are SUVish things.
I'm not even sure what counts as an SUV these days. Very few EVs match what I would think of when I think SUV. They are mostly just estates that sit a bit higher due to having batteries in the floor.
Size is a funny one with EVs though as it is also linked to range. Personally I'd be happy with something the size of that Inster above. Reminds me of the Suzuki Ignis in some ways. But I couldn't really live with a WLTP range of 229 miles.
If I do go for an EV I'm probably going to end up buying something much larger than I actually want just to get the range I (think I) need.
Hmm, the MG is still a fair bit smaller than the Octavia:
I’ve gone for ID7 estate. 605 litre boot and Passat size passenger space. Range appears to be excellent judging by forums etc. mine not arriving til June.
ID7 looks great. Probably too new/premium for a viable used buy though. The e308SW/Astra estate looks a bit bigger than the MG5 but again probably too new for the used market. Could be a contender in a few years? Seems like the EV world is a few years off a ubiquitous and functional used estate.
Surely the EV equivalent of an Octavia is an Enyaq?
Just no. Ones a proper estate. The other is a oversized jacked up tank (sadly as someone already pointed out a lot of EVs are).
The height isn't so the batteries can go under the floor is because people are idiots and want taller cars so they can own the urban jungle. Batteries fit just fine under the floor of normal sized vehicles.
Seems like the EV world is a few years off a ubiquitous and functional used estate.
There's an Audi A6 estate in electric coming soon but its not cheap
A6 electric estate now has a 505 litre boot. Absolutely mental. Don’t know why but Audi seem to be chopping the boot size on a lot of cars. Madness! The new ICE A6 has a similar small sized boot (70 litres down on the outgoing model).
The height isn't so the batteries can go under the floor is because people are idiots cyclists* and want taller cars so they can own the urban jungle. fit their bikes** in without having to turn the handlebars.
* or parents
** or buggies
FTFY.
Almost everyone I know who drives some sort of crossover / SUV type vehicle is not an urban warrior. They just like having better visibility or more boot space or like the slightly higher seats because it's easier to get little kids or aged parents in and out.
Car manufacturers know this and that's why old school saloons / estates are increasingly rare.
The urban junglist drives a double cab pickup these days. They wouldn't be seen dead in a Quashqai
Hold on. I have just seen there is an E-Berlingo ! Yeah not an estate, more small van/car, but not to be mistaken for an urban junglist warrior vehicle. So then, what's wrong with these? 50kWH battery/ 174miles though. Is there a long range one? hmmm.
I think the e Berlingo s use the same motor and battery as the Corsa e? If it has 100kw charging like the Corsa then longer trips shouldn't be a problem.
It probably has a lower range due to it looking line a brick 😉 but a useful shaped brick.
That's not too bad then. 30mins break in a long journey for a charge and a coffee seems fine.
That's not too bad then. 30mins break in a long journey for a charge and a coffee seems fine.
Depends how often you have to take them and how far you have to go I guess. Remember that 179 mile range is a fantasy number. Probably more like 120, maybe below 100 on the motorway in the winter. Then you don't want to go down to nothing and wont want to charge beyond 80% on the move (too slow) so on a long trip you could be taking those 30min coffee breaks every 80 miles. Hope you like coffee 🙂
Ah, shot down with plans of the e berlingo sticking it to the premium jungalists tanks. My regular(ish) long journey is 200miles and it's a 460miler to see family in Scotland.
A great lease deal on a BMW i5 M60 touring…
https://www.rivervaleleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/bmw/i5/442kw-m60-xdrive-84kwh-5dr-auto-105016
The new ICE A6 has a similar small sized boot (70 litres down on the outgoing model).
A whole rucksack! OMG! 🙃
ID7 is not a ‘proper’ estate - it’s noticeably taller. When I get back in my Mazda 6 it feels like I’m sitting on the tarmac. But it’s not as tall as your typical SUV by a long way. I love it. With such a short bonnet, there’s tonnes of passenger space and a huge boot. Did I mention I love it?
In reality - Kia e-Niro or Hyundai Kona
The interior space is good on the e-niro but the boot is merely adequate. An electric Octavia estate would be ideal for me, I think the ID7 is the nearest equivalent but they're too new for my budget.
Anyone know how VWs battery care mode works with IOG? Battery care mode supposedly resets the charge target to 80% after each charge so you don't have to remember, but IOG charges in several different chunks overnight. So if you set the car to 100% does the battery care mode reset that to 80% after the first chunk of charging or only when the car reaches the 100% target?
With our Ohme/Octopus combo if you want to get the VW to 100% you need to turn off battery care and set the charge target on the car to 100%. Otherwise it will just stop charging once the car reaches 80%, no matter how much further charging is scheduled.
ID7 is not a ‘proper’ estate - it’s noticeably taller.
Tell me about it. They managed to make it look like a normal estate in the publicity photos. First one I saw in the flesh was such a disappointment. 🤢 🤮
As tenuous stated I had to turn off the 80% on my ID3 to get it to charge to 100%. You can easily set the charging capacity on the VW app on your phone on a slide bar from 50% to 100% but I’ve never bothered and just let it charge.
Thanks both - bigger trip coming up and that 20% would be the difference between needing a top up stop or not.
Also note that setting it on the phone app isn't fully reliable as it doesn't necessarily sync across properly, if you want to ensure it's set to 100% go out and set it on the dash 🙂