@jondoh what car is it, and does it have some form of charging settings
Lexus RZ450. I haven't changed the settings and in the past it has charged as quickly as I would expect. I assumed it was a fault with the charge station.
Additional load only can come from fossil fuels as renewables run pretty much maxed out.
Have you got a source for that.
Octopus (for example) are able to offer rates of less that 5p/kwh during certain periods and that is because they can buy electricity at a very low price, presumably because supply outstrips demand at those times. If plugging my car in to charge meant firing up a gas-fired power station I don't think I'd be getting those low rates.
so an increase in electricity consumption means an increase in fossil fuel useage.
Or:
and
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp372d37gxgo
Additional load only can come from fossil fuels as renewables run pretty much maxed out.
Flippin eck not this again. How is it TJ that every time we (as in STW and you) have a conversation, you wait six months and then start again right from the beginning having ignored everything that was previously said.
Let me set this out clearly:
1) You cannot allocate all discretionary usage to EVs and ignore other discretionary usages. In other words, you can't claim it's the EV that uses all the extra fossil fuels and not your hairdryer or water heater for your bath?
2) EVEN IF you did allocate all the extra use to an EV, it's still vastly more efficient in terms of overall energy usage and pollution created to drive an EV fuelled by a gas power station than one fuelled by petrol or diesel.
3) Most EVs are fuelled overnight where demand is often so low that supply of renewables does indeed outstrip demand, so even then your argument does not work. Smart charging optimises this even more because cars can be charged only when there is a surplus. With smart charging, when you plug the car in it does not start charging immediately, nor does it start when the cheap rate starts; it is managed centrally so that charging happens when there is a surplus.
I'm in Aberdeenshire, where we have lots of wind turbines. I did a bit of cursory digging to see if I could substantiate TJ's claim and came across these nuggets:
- Scotland has a massive, rapidly growing renewable electricity capacity, often producing over 100% of its electricity needs from renewables, with wind supplying the majority.
- In the first half of 2025 Scottish wind farms were paid not to produce nearly 40% of the electricity they could have generated.
- That's four terawatt hours of potential output between January and June – enough to power every home in Scotland for six months
So, if I plug my EV in to charge between midnight and 5am, odds are that I'm just mopping up wind capacity that would have been wasted otherwise.
Cheap power for at least 30 minutes on Wednesday evening for me 😲.
The way the grid is being supplied is slightly different at the moment from what I can tell.
We are importing more electricity from France, usually 3GW but more recently 3.5GW during the day and 4GW at peak demand periods.
Electricity from UK Nuclear plants is up by 0.5GW since the conflict began.
More my interpretation of wind turbine electricity generation is that the UK grid can only handle a 22.5GW input but could probably provide much more during windy conditions but can't due to balancing the grid?
Tomorrow evening isn't going to be that windy but I reckon with the stability provided to the grid by the increased input from French imports, UK nuclear, biomass and gas generation of electricity there will be more wind turbines spinning than usual to reach the 22.5GW that the turbines can provide to the grid.
I'll be charging my car tomorrow evening.
The wind generated electricity coming on stream over the next couple of decades is insane. It seems to me that finding stuff to do with it overnight is going to be key. And EVs charging overnight seems about the perfect use.
Semi serious point..,the demise of live TV where half the households in the country got off their sofas at exactly the same moment to flip the kettle on must have made a small but useful difference to balancing the grid.
And EVs charging overnight seems about the perfect use.
I have my heat pump set to the same temp 24/7 so that it uses the most energy overnight. I would actually prefer to have it set back a degree or so but that means it would start to use energy just as the cheap rate runs out. I would love to create some kind of heat storage system for it that I could heat up overnight. If I had enough space I might try and create some of water based heat storage system.
If I had enough space I might try and create some of water based heat storage system.
You'll be talking about a thermal store. They are a bit spendy mind and as you say you need the space. I have one on the to do list to work with a stove with a back boiler and a heat pump when the time comes. A friend who built his own very eco house has a massive one with a back boiler, heat pump EV panels, a mini wind turbine and thermal solar panels all feeding the beast.
I feel like you could just dig a big hole, insulate it, fill with water then cover it, and then have a couple of valves attached to your radiator pipes going to coils in the water. Divert the flow from the HP to the hx when it's cheap rate and then pump from the hx to the rads when it's not.
You could call it a 'swimming pool' and patent the idea.
Just had my email from Octopus and they're only dropping my IOG rate from 7 to 5.8p - guess the Tangerine Toddler has stopped the rumoured 3.5p cut. On the upside they mention possibly increasing the export tarrif but expect that will only happen if higher wholesale prices are sustained so it's not necessarily good news.
Just had my email from Octopus and they're only dropping my IOG rate from 7 to 5.8p - guess the Tangerine Toddler has stopped the rumoured 3.5p cut. On the upside they mention possibly increasing the export tarrif but expect that will only happen if higher wholesale prices are sustained so it's not necessarily good news.
It depends where you live - each area of UK has different unit and standing charge rates. I am in Stirling.
I am going 7.5p -> 3.99p so I am getting the 3.5p cut.
I also am getting peak rate cut 32.19 -> 26.69 which makes the day rate cheaper than the non-EV tariff I was on before.
Gas reduced by 0.3p/unit and no changes to either standing charge.
In the process of getting solar export set up, and no change at 12p/kWh there.
This should all add up to a useful saving for me - and locked in for a year while the orange idiot plays geo-political games.
If it's any consolation, in Aberdeenshire (where you can't move for turbines) I'm only getting a drop from 7p to 5.2p on the variable IOG overnight rate. Day rate drops from 29.8p to 27.5p though, which will probably make a bigger difference as we don't really do any load shifting and standing charge drops from 70p to 56.3p. So it's all good news.
I thought I'd read something about needing to fix for 12 moths to get the lowest rates but the rates for fixing at the moment (for me at least) are much worse. NO surprises there though. Who'd want to guess where energy prices will be next month let alone next year.
I'll 3 pin slow charge my car tonight, 12kw for 12p I hope. Probably 5p if I'm lucky! 🤔⚡
I'm not currently on IOG (just the standard tracker tariff) and when I did some calculations earlier in the week IOG fixed 12 months was offering 0.0549p off peak and 0.3235 peak. I've just looked again and it's gone up to 0.08p off peak and 0.3236 peak. At the cheaper rate I was going to be worse off unless I load shifted, definitely no good now.
Well, that'll learn me for being so positive about wind generation up there ^.
Letter popped through my door this morning advising me of a likely wind farm and battery storage planning application 3km from my front door in a little spot I've previously thought of as my personal running and cross country skiing track.
Must not be a nimby, must not be a nimby.....
I actually quite like wind turbines aesthetically. More concerned that the proposed location is a place called 'Dulsie Wood'.......recognisable for currently being an actual wood. Can you put nine 200m high turbines in a wood without getting rid of the...er.. trees?
The miles travelled by the elections to charge my car will be minimal - guess they'll be nice and fresh*
*I appreciate electrons don't work like that - they've got to be pasteurised or something first.
Email today also 7p off peak down to 5.2p, yet within 20 miles of the 2 biggest onshore wind farms in the UK. Bit disappointed 🤷🏻♂️
@convert unfortunately although I’m generally in favour of wind and solar power they are not without cost to wildlife and the natural world, one example of very dodgy practice-
https://www.wildcathaven.com/news/rapidly-moving-situation-we-have-momentum
@wheelsonfire1 - Thanks.
(going very off topic) - by coincidence I saw (and reported) a wildcat about 4km from this proposed windfarm a few months back and 99% sure I saw a jet black Kella just behind our house last weekend.
Email today also 7p off peak down to 5.2p, yet within 20 miles of the 2 biggest onshore wind farms in the UK. Bit disappointed 🤷🏻♂️
Even though Scotland produces more renewable electricity than the rest of the UK, we have the largest standing charges. London and South East have the highest, despite more and more power "travelling" further to the users...
We don’t charge away from home or work very often, messages from the wife yesterday show that the charging infrastructure still needs work…
She’d already tried somewhere before this attempt too.
I know with a bit more planning it should be easier but it would be nice if it was at the stage that you could rely on stopping somewhere and getting plugged in.
Email today also 7p off peak down to 5.2p, yet within 20 miles of the 2 biggest onshore wind farms in the UK. Bit disappointed
Even though Scotland produces more renewable electricity than the rest of the UK, we have the largest standing charges.
The problem there is the fact that transmission networks aren’t adequately designed to handle all the offshore production, so there are bottlenecks - the wind farms and solar farms are expanding faster then the distributors can connect and get the power around the grid.
Apparently, N Ireland still has a significant number of the population on oil heating!
Not criticising your wife @phil5556 and you are (both) quite right; the public charging network does need to improve before we see mass adoption. I'm sure it will do. We're still in the growth phase where lots of charge point operators (CPOs) are competing for dominance in the market. That means lots of different companies with different systems. Over time the best will dominate and swallow up the others leading to a more uniform (and hopefully more reliable) network. In the meantime, a couple of suggestions that might be worth considering:
Even if your car doesn't tell you directly, apps like zapmap, electroverse etc will tell you how busy each charge location is, which should help to prevent cases like your wife's where she turned up and found all the chargers were occupied.
It is worth reporting faulty chargers a) so that other drivers know not to head there and b) so the CPO knows they need fixing. Again this is quite easy using an app (like electroverse) as it's just a simple tap to report the issue and then they will let other users of the app know and contact the CPO to report the issue.
apps like zapmap, electroverse etc will tell you how busy each charge location is
Ahh yes, Zapmap. The same Zapmap that told my wife that a huge charging station near Tamworth was available. It's not open yet (well, it might be now) – so she ended up having to find somewhere else and, as she didn't have much charge left, had no choice but to sit for an hour waitiing for it to charge up. The same Zapmap that told me there were two new superfast chargers just 1/2 a mile from home. Again – they aren't operational yet. The whole set-up is a shambles as far as I am concerned.
New record: £1.30/kWh at the Fuuse 7kW chargers at a Heathrow airport (the Hyatt). Rate isn't printed on the front of the charger anywhere so the fist I knew about it was when I got a £90 bill the next day. Will not be staying there again.
That's the equivalent of paying £4.70 ish for diesel at a petrol station.
I know with a bit more planning it should be easier but it would be nice if it was at the stage that you could rely on stopping somewhere and getting plugged in.
It’s annoying when that happens, but she was able to find a charger. We’ve just been on a driving holiday in Donegal and Sligo. Chargers few and far between - even relatively slow ones. If one is not working you can be utterly screwed. We took our fossil car and tbh if/when we go back we’ll do the same. I love my EV but the system is still a work in progress.
New record: £1.30/kWh at the Fuuse 7kW chargers at a Heathrow airport (the Hyatt).
Just looked it up on zapmap, and yes that's quite the piss take....for a 7kw charger too. Nearly double the price of anything else showing up in the Heathrow area. Would love to know how they justify that.
Ahh yes, Zapmap. The same Zapmap that told my wife that a huge charging station near Tamworth was available. It's not open yet (well, it might be now) – so she ended up having to find somewhere else and, as she didn't have much charge left, had no choice but to sit for an hour waitiing for it to charge up. The same Zapmap that told me there were two new superfast chargers just 1/2 a mile from home. Again – they aren't operational yet. The whole set-up is a shambles as far as I am concerned.
Fair point. It's certainly not perfect and there is an art to using it. I generally head for locations that show decent availability but also some in use. So a location showing 4 of 6 chargers available and 2 in use is a safer bet than one showing all 6 available. Especially if others in the area look busy.
Another issue is that not all locations broadcast accurate information. I've seen this with the Cairn Lodge chargers, where they can show as empty even when others in the area are full. I popped in once when I was going past to check this out and sure enough, most were occupied even though the app said they were all free.
Finally, there is the issue of some sites having poor access, which can be hard to spot on the app. I was watching some potential charge stops for a few days before my 500 mile trip down to the in-laws over Christmas. I noticed that there was a bank of chargers just outside Kings Lynn that always seemed to be close to empty, even though the ones half a mile down the road were busy. They seemed to be working as there was about one car a day charging, but always seemed to be free. I was intrigued enough to check them out a few days before Christmas and when I got there I realised that they were in the car park of a very busy farm shop (probably even busier than normal a couple of days before Christmas) and most of the chargers were ICEd.
So plenty of work still to do and I can absolutely understand why most people don't want to try to unravel all the hidden clues and just want something that works. It's a bit like the 1970s when driving across the country in an ICE car required a bit more planning and the first half an hour of chat when you arrived was taken up with "which way did you come?".
Even if your car doesn't tell you directly, apps like zapmap, electroverse etc will tell you how busy each charge location is, which should help to prevent cases like your wife's where she turned up and found all the chargers were occupied.
She did look on ZapMap… interestingly the one at Edinburgh zoo isn’t even on there. I think it’s a BP Pulse one and would have been perfect to have left the car on it while she was at the zoo with our nephew.
The next one she was driving past anyway so stopped and it was full. It wasn’t full 20mins earlier when she checked… There may have been somewhere else local she could have stopped at.
And the last (Bathgate services I think) doesn’t show that half of them are broken. And for whatever reason it wouldn’t start working until she’d tried a few times.
We’re 6 years and about 80k miles into EV ownership and as I said, don’t use public chargers very often but when we do it’s not unusual for it to be a faff. It really needs to improve if they want to convince everyone that it’s a good idea.
We’re doing the same trip over to Edinburgh again at the weekend and taking the R5, hopefully it’ll be easier this time 🤞
Would love to know how they justify that
It's probably cheaper than just parking your car at Heathrow
We’re doing the same trip over to Edinburgh again at the weekend and taking the R5, hopefully it’ll be easier this time
No idea if it fits your itinerary but I regularly stop at IONITY at Sherifhall and not had an issue. Or if you need some bedding plants there are chargers at Dobbies nearby. I stop there and hang around waiting when MrsJ is returning to Embra airport.
It's probably cheaper than just parking your car at Heathrow
It's in a satellite hotel car park. And I'm assuming you can only sit on it overnight whilst it's charging rather than leave your car charging on it all week whilst away...
Slight aside - is that a thing yet as part of the airport valet parking service - come back to a fully charged car at pickup ready for your onward travel?
I've just realised - I've not used a charger other than the one at home since day two of EV ownership 9 months ago. Day 1 involved a 650 mile return journey in one day from one end of the UK to the other, but since then it's by 8000 miles of commuting and charging at home. Mind you, I have about a 80 mile drive to the nearest dual carriageway so maybe I'm not too typical of the average EV user.
Slight aside - is that a thing yet as part of the airport valet parking service - come back to a fully charged car at pickup ready for your onward travel?
You can book a space with a charger at EDI, but there’s currently no charge option with the fastpark (valet) service.
There is at Manchester if recall correctly.
You can book a space with a charger at EDI, but there’s currently no charge option with the fastpark (valet) service.
Hmm. There certainly WAS. It cost £25, so it’s convenient but a bit pricey.
is that a thing yet as part of the airport valet parking service - come back to a fully charged car at pickup ready for your onward travel
Last time I used the one at Gatwick they were offering a charge service at about 60p/kwh which didn't seem that unreasonable. Cheaper than Heathrow hotels anyway!
Would love to know how they justify that
It's probably cheaper than just parking your car at Heathrow
They said that the price includes a parking fee element, so I think you'd be perfectly justified in dumping your car there, adding 1kW, and jetting off on holiday for a fortnight. Don't tell them I told you this.
They said that the price includes a parking fee element, so I think you'd be perfectly justified in dumping your car there, adding 1kW, and jetting off on holiday for a fortnight. Don't tell them I told you this.
And this is why chargings harder than it needs to be.
You can book a space with a charger at EDI, but there’s currently no charge option with the fastpark (valet) service.
Not correct. You can do valet fast park and they’ll charge car for you. Seems to be £18 per day, if you are parking for 1-2 days and getting a full charge that’s a good deal.
