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See, this is another thing that worries me. Hadrian's wall is actually quite far into England. So will there be a long running and bitter border dispute over who gets half of Newcastle?.
It's going to be a pain in the arse if I need a passport to get from our office to our office bike shed. At least the majority of my ride home is on one side of the border.
Roast swan for all..
Of the roughly 50% who are in the "NO" camp, it seems there are some common themes:
1. Removal of savings from Scottish banks into English ones.
2. Plans being made to either sell up and move south of the wall, or simply to keep existing home (if prices tank) as a second home.
Bertie Bassett is a top hat wearing relic of English imperialism.
If its a Yes vote, I wonder how long it will be before some people (buses, small business etc) start rejecting Scottish notes........ My money is on not long 🙂
Mind you, it will still be easier than trying to use Northern Irish money anywhere outside of Ireland.
There may be a bitter and protracted dispute over who gets Noocassle, but with a relatively stronger bargaining position I'm sure Westminster can force Scotland to take it all.
Assuming there is a yes vote, I can see England going through something a bit like the opposite of the five stages of grief.
1. Euphoria
Hooray, we finally got rid of those whinging scots.
2. Anxiety
Oh shit… what about the oil.
3. Bargaining
Err… you know we said you couldn't share the pound?
4. Anger
Well f*** you then, you go and be independent, but don't come running back when it all goes wrong
5. Denial
Scotland? Who are they?
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Brilliant
An interesting poimnt to note; we are not a 'united kingdom' when it comes to concessionary bus passes. English passes can't be used in Wales or Scotland.
Well you lucky Scottish buggers! PMQ's is cancelled tomorrow for Dave, Ed, and Nick to come up and see you all instead. That should definitely swing it.....
for Alex.
That motley Westminster crew, with associated hangers-on, should help the undecided's recoil in horror and vote Yes! They really don't get it at all, do they? The best thing they could have done was just shut the **** up! But then they are politicians. 🙄
you should stage a coup, Binners.
Cameron's actually played it very well so far, he's been smart enough to just snipe from a distance and avoid being a central figure in the debate. Whatever else he is, he's an exceptional player, if he comes to Scotland now there's a good reason. Perhaps they feel that the people he puts off are already voting Yes.
Part of me wonders if he's now preparing for a yes vote- being the unionist who lost the union is probably the end of his career but if he can at least say "Look, I went to Scotland, I fought the fight!" maybe he can mitigate that and avoid looking like he fiddled while Rome burned.
Cameron's toxic and he knows it. I wonder if the plan now is to manage the defeat - coming up here has the double benefit of sealing the deal for Yes and showing people down south that he tried his hardest.
God I envy the Scots. They have the opportunity to cast off the Westminster mob and their puppetmasters in the City of London/Square mile.
Don't waste it!
One possible outcome a few years down the line;
England "We're thirsty and there is another drought on"
Scotland "Well, we can sell you some water if you like. £10 a litre please"
One possible outcome a few years down the line;England "We're thirsty and there is another drought on"
Scotland "Well, we can sell you some water if you like. £10 a litre please"
How exactly will you pump it though? As when Scotland switches off its nuclear reactors isn't there an energy deficit?
Plus think of the import tax as you will be outside the EU 🙂
What tyres for leaping Hadrian's Wall in Steve McQueen Great Escape style? (From England to Free Scotland.)
You'd probably want something fairly fast rolling, maybe a CX tyre as you'd have a good bit of riding to do once you landed to reach the border. Semi slick in summer or an intermediate in winter. Once you've landed you would be best joining the NCN route 68 and riding up to Kielder then over the border at Bloody Bush. You could take the A68 but I think you'd get stopped more easily on the main high way.
Made me laugh:
Meanwhile he is the only leader in the UK that actually achieved a majority in a recent election
He may have got a majority of seats, but the majority of the electorate didn't vote for him. That's funny given how much the Yes campaign bangs on about Scotland have a government in Westminster that they didn't vote for.
In the 2011 Scottish Parliamentary election the SNP won 53.49% of the seats but only 44.04% of the voters actually voted for them.
Biscuit Powered - MemberGod I envy the Scots.....
up sticks and move then, you only have to live there to be one 😆
AS constantly refer to the Westminster elite and he includes Milliband in this. Cameron knows he's too easy a target for AS's jibes at the "privileged English" who run the UK, hence he's kept a low profile. All three party leaders are coming up as its a show of unity, an attempt to send the message that the UK as a whole no matter of it's political colour would prefer Scotland to remain as part of the Union.
I remain staggered that whilst the UK sees that independence would be bad for us economically the Yes supporters are happy to ignore the reality that it's worse for them.
@scruff there is plenty of water in Wales
@Biscuit, you get the chance to change the Westminster mob every 5 years or so. EDIT: Or follow @hilldodgers excellent advice 😀
If its a Yes vote, I wonder how long it will be before some people (buses, small business etc) start rejecting Scottish notes........ My money is on not long
This can't be serious? Already happens and has been happening for years, despite being pounds sterling.
In some cases it happens now. Maybe the banks will say you have to change them into UKP and pay commission?
@Biscuit, you get the chance to change the Westminster mob every 5 years or so. EDIT: Or follow @hilldodgers excellent advice
Well, not really. I get to play a part in choosing which colour tie they wear, but I'm not silly enough to believe that there is any other difference. They all answer to the city of London. What the city wants the city gets, even to everyone else's detriment. Otherwise the sky will fall in etc.
You reckon it will be any different with Scotland and their big business? (I was going to write "financial sector", but then remembered it's all leaving)
It'll be worse, the smaller the country the more big business can push you around. And remember Alex's policies are deliberately aimed at attracting tax shy corporations, so SNP policy is 'worse' than Westminster's when it come to business tax.
Maybe. Maybe not.
But if I was a Scot I would be happy to shake things up and take the chance. Seems like I'm not alone.
It'll be worse, the smaller the country the more big business can push you around.
Indeed. Why they'd want to leave a nation where the government leads the world in courageously standing up to big corporations is anyone's guess.
We need change, this is a change, let's do it?
We need change, this is a change, let's do it?
We need change, this is the only change we'll be able to achieve in a very long time, it's worth a go.
No sensible government will stand up to corporations, sensible governments work with them. Remember corporations keep the lights on and pay the bills. The NHS is nothing without corporations providing the power, computers, scanners, pumps, drugs, food, beds etc. Ultimately the best countries are the ones where private and public work together.
Credit Suisse's number crunchers seems to think going it alone may not be the best move but it is all just economic theory/guesswork so attribute as much credit as you choose....
Risk of an economic crisis: In our opinion Scotland would fall into a deep recession. We believe deposit flight is both highly likely and highly problematic (with banks assets of 12x GDP) and should the BoE move to guarantee Scottish deposits, we expect it to extract a high fiscal and regulatory price (probably insisting on a primary budget surplus). The re-domiciling of the financial sector and UK public service jobs, as well as a legal dispute over North Sea oil, would further accelerate any downturn. In our opinion, as North Sea oil production slows, we estimate that the non-oil economy would need a 10% to 20% devaluation to restore competitiveness. This would require a 5% to 10% fall in wages, driven by a steep rise in unemployment.
You're right. If it wasn't for all these corporations price fixing and paying next to no tax we'd all be a lot poorer and public services would be much worse.
(I really can't be arsed arguing properly about stuff like this in the face of such transparent acceptance of the status quo)
What price fixing, there is very little evidence of any. As for avoiding paying tax the SNP policy is aimed at encouraging that. The SNP is a very right wing party when it comes to corporation tax. Sure an iScotland might vote in another party but then when Grangemouth and the like start saying they'll fold unless more money is given to them, what do you think will happen?
I think things could be improved for the whole of the UK, but I don't see an iScotland having the answers. A whole UK has more power together than apart.
What price fixing, there is very little evidence of any.
One for a different thread perhaps but I'd start you off with energy and fuel prices. And then there's the stuff like construction companies colluding on competing bids for public contracts. I've no particular problem with companies paying less tax if that's government policy, but just allowing them to randomly evade/avoid tax is altogether different.
Yes, the whole UK has more power than Scotland on its own.
It's a question of who that power is used to benefit.
Say the UK has 100 power:benefit units and Scotland has 10. (maybe drop to 9 after independence?)
But only 8 of the UK's powerz (units - whatevah!) benefit Scotland.
Going it alone means Scotland receives more powerz!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm looking forward to a yes vote, then we can get on with the time zone change, getting in more evening cycling/drinking time in the sun 🙂
I'm looking forward to a yes vote, then we can get on with the time zone change, getting in more evening cycling/drinking time in the sun
Surprised Better Together hasn't latched on to that one. "Independence will mean darker mornings! Think of the children!! "
What's the chance of this scenario:
1. Yes wins
2. The negotiations start. Likely to be messy but eventually come out with an agreement - e.g. currency, division of the debt, division of oil reserves.
3. rUK says, as this impacts the English, Northern Irish and Welsh wealth and prosperity (at a time when the future looks very uncertain), we think it should go to a referendum - as a condition of accepting the deal.
This is quite likely if there's any doubt rUK will lose out in the deal - as the voters would go mental if Westminster appeared to be giving away more than we felt was fair or reasonable...
We could end up in endless debates and referenda for the next 5 years... massive lack of certainty which in itself could drag us all down the pan...
You'd end up in this weird situation where on one hand annoyed rUK voters wouldn't want rid of Scotland as it would cost them but they wouldn't want to keep it as they think it's a resource drain. Similar to the immigrants stealing our jobs whilst also sitting around all day on benefits.
Similar to the immigrants stealing our jobs whilst also sitting around all day on benefits.
Maybe some do one and some do the other? Crazy immigrants.
This is quite likely if there's any doubt rUK will lose out in the deal - as the voters would go mental if Westminster appeared to be giving away more than we felt was fair or reasonable...
...and Scotland goes it alone, keeps the oil, leave the rUK with the debt, and establishes it's own currency or attempts to join the euro which the rUK vetos. As others have said, if the rUK doesn't like them leaving, there's nothing they can do about it, it's their choice. Short of a military occupation there's no way of forcing them to remain as part of the UK, English referendums or not, so the rUK has the choice of being grown up about it and getting the best deal possible, or it can throw it's dummy out of the pram.
What's the chance of this scenario:
1. Yes wins
2. The negotiations start. Likely to be messy but eventually come out with an agreement - e.g. currency, division of the debt, division of oil reserves.
3. rUK says, as this impacts the English, Northern Irish and Welsh wealth and prosperity (at a time when the future looks very uncertain), we think it should go to a referendum - as a condition of accepting the deal.
I think 2. is more likely to result in some sort of fudged compromise where no one is particularly happy but all the politicians, of whatever persuasion, can proclaim a "victory" and that they were right all along.
...and Scotland goes it alone, keeps the oil, leave the rUK with the debt, and establishes it's own currency or attempts to join the euro which the rUK vetos.
...has no tax and revenue system, no vehicle and driver licensing...