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Development, education and nutrition are things that schools should provide anyway, to all children, regardless of background. However, I agree they should have a major role to play in the lives of those less fortunate.
I would support child benefit being capped at two kids
This just makes kids suffer because their parents didn't use contraception. It isn't the child's fault that they were born into a larger family.
If you want to cut birth rates effectively, improve the education and employment prospects of 16-30 year old women. Across practically all societies and time periods, the better women are educated and integrated into the labour force, the fewer children they have.
In any case, this whole conversation is a distraction. Teenage pregnancies have been dropping for decades, as have birth rates across the population as a whole. The UK has an aging population and needs immigration to keep the economically productive part of the population "pyramid" stocked.
The idea that a statistically significant part of the UK's political or economic situation is to do with teenage mothers is just cobblers. It's not even a Top 20 problem. You can add up the total "cost" of every teenage mother in the UK and it wouldn't even come close to a single big ticket capitalist ballsup like the mismanagement of the privatisation of the Royal Mail.
The idea that a statistically significant part of the UK's political or economic situation is to do with teenage mothers is just cobblers. It's not even a Top 20 problem. You can add up the total "cost" of every teenage mother in the UK and it wouldn't even come close to a single big ticket capitalist ballsup like the mismanagement of the privatisation of the Royal Mail.
Yes but at least admit that it's "shocking".
Give some credit to Daily Mail readers who for years have been frothing with anger and indignation over the issue.
wouldn't even come close to a single big ticket capitalist ballsup like the mismanagement of the privatisation of the Royal Mail.
Sssshhhhh, no, we can't talk about stuff like that as people don't like it. The Tories got back in you know.
Oldmanmtb +1
As long as insert "scumbag of choice" is getting shown the boot I'm alright 8)
'Human' beings are getting thin on the ground on here Eh 😐
oldmanmtb +1
I hope the tories and their fanboys choke on their own bile
its interesting to see the unabashed boldness of the right , after they have won a majority ( in a rigged system ) they feel they can let rip their prejudices and petty mindedness , a good mental health system would be needed to help these people ......
So rudebwoy what has been announced in the last few days to cause you so much angst?
RMail - so company can now access capital to invest better and we get a 4% yield to boot. And that's a disaster!?! Sounds like it's a relief that the nasty lot have the keys rather than the oppo in that case.
it's more noticeable on here and out and about rather than amongst the toffs and pillocks in charge..
how many cowardly wallies are suddenly spouting spiteful nonsense now they feel they've got a handful of chums to back their ideologies up..
makes my skin crawl...tis some fruity fruity behaviour 😕
What kind of spiteful nonsense? There certainly seems a lot of bile being raged since last weeks result - but as from which side, well.....
shut it Voldemort!!!
Who said that? Which thread was it on?
are you really asking me to sit here and look for examples of nasty right wing sentiment to quote..!?
hmmmmmm... that would be a fascinating way to spend my Sunday afternoon 😆
you're a nipple mate
are you really asking me to sit here and look for examples of nasty right wing sentiment to quote..!?
Can't be that hard surely?
hmmmmmm... that would be a fascinating way to spend my Sunday afternoon
I would prefer to go for a ride, true! We've had enough politics for a while
you're a nipple mate
Cheers, that's very nice.
"are you really asking me to sit here and look for examples of nasty right wing sentiment to quote..!?"Can't be that hard surely?
If you agree that it's not that hard why are you asking someone to do it for you ?
If you really need a helping hand try "breeding like a plague of rats" on this very page.
Or are you now going to deny that it's a nasty right wing sentiment ?
its interesting to see the unabashed boldness of the right , after they have won a majority ( in a rigged system ) they feel they can let rip their prejudices and petty mindedness , a good mental health system would be needed to help these people ......
The views being expressed recently are no different than they were 12 months ago. What has changed is that prior to the election some STW posters were able to pass off the opinions being expressed as the ramblings of a demented few, after all it's easier to deal with views you don't like if you can pass them off as fictitious or in the minority.
The most vocal on here thought Labour would win or there'd be another coalition at the very least, suddenly having to accept that a decent chunk of the electorate don't share your views is proving to be a problem for some on here.
If the shouty lefty types had bothered to listen over the last few years they might have seen this coming.
Here's a couple of facts. The over 60s now outnumber those under 16....and the over 85s are the fastest growing group in society.
Who do you think they vote for?....given that a large part of UKIPs three million votes consist of the 'grey vote' and Tory voters are typically dismissed as grey haired lunatics do you think the country will suddenly lurch to the left any time soon?
Idealistic views (from either end of the political spectrum) are lovely but have little place in the real world, you'd think people would realise this by now.
Contrary to vocal popular opinion on here we're not a young leftist electorate.
This years pay rise offer is 2% implemented from July ie 6mths @ the new rate before negotiations start again!
Any new starts in the company start on different contracts which include less holidays and several thousands of £££s less than the test of us!!!!!
So you're getting a pay rise which is pretty decent despite other people starting in similar jobs earning less? My heart bleeds.....
just would like to point out to the various Union bashers on this thread that virtually all your employment rights have come about due to unions fighting for them, it also amazes me that people have viewed union activity and attitudes historically as negative and anti business when I fact they were protecting their members interests (pay conditions etc)
I would agree that the unions did great work in their early years and were the force that made working in the UK a great deal better for many people. However their antics since the 70's have distanced themselves from a lot of people.
A recent example is this - I worked in retail when the crash came in 2008 and managed to keep my job but didn't get any cost of living increases for 2 years. At the end of that period I moved to be a civil servant. When I got there I was astonished to find the union there was demanding a 4% pay rise (2010 ish) and thought that this was perfectly reasonable. The people I met who were in the union and active in promoting it clearly had no idea about the wider world and just thought they were entitled to whatever they asked for. IIRC we got about 2% (might have been less) and I was astonished we got that, I was chuffed, but the whining unionists just wouldn't shut up about it. When I told them what it was like outside their own little bubble they just turned into brick walls, nothing you said to them made any difference. And that's the attitude you get with a lot of union people, they are so insistent they push their own agenda, which is fine, but they never listen to reason or want to debate anything properly.
The sad thing is that I was considering joining the union before I got there but there is no way I would do now. I was very happy to walk past them as they striked in that public sector strike a while back.
This just makes kids suffer because their parents didn't use contraception. It isn't the child's fault that they were born into a larger family.
I think the key thing is that a lot of people (mainly Tories) think that the poor should suffer. The child is born poor and as such should be made suffer so as to encourage him/her to try and do better. An odd mindset, but never the less very prevelant.
Ditto for the unions where I work, they now have a political agenda that seems to come above all else.
One of the two main unions where I work negotiated an enhanced rate for staff who were working over Christmas, before it could be put to members for a vote (staff were gagging for some extra Christmas money!) the rival union scuppered the deal because they hadn't been part of the negotiations....WTF?!?!....it didn't seem to occur to them that staff were for once getting a good deal, instead it became about undermining the rival Union.
How management must have laughed, who needs enemies with 'friends' like that eh?!
Unions ruined things for themselves with flying pickets, wildcat strikes, trying to take down a democratically elected government etc etc....when the private sector is stale hearing the unions banging on about 'unfair' pay rises just makes them sound out of touch and distasteful....really once workers rights became established in law the role of the unions had somewhat diminished, nowadays at my place the only people who seem to need them are ones constantly on the receiving end of complaints and who want union representation like its some kind of shield of invincibility for crap employees.
What's really scary about reading some of the nasty, bike-filled rants from the right-wing hard-of-thinking on here, is that their hateful opinions probably most closely resemble the attitudes of our present lords and masters. Especially the truly loathsome, arrogant and odious little turd that is IDS
My union does a superb job of defending my working conditions especially with the little things that are not headline grabbers. Very few actually appreciate this though.
I was very happy to walk past them as they striked in that public sector strike a while back.
Well done you, hope you feel proud of yourself.
Got to agree with most of what deviant says. In the real world away from internet forums and intellectual circles, many of your average Joe's views are truly unpleasant and regressive to say the least. Politicians in conjunction with the media feed and take full advantage of the in-fighting they orchestrate, unfortunately they know theres a never ending supply of small minded selfish plebs, that will help facilitate their agenda.
3 generations that have never worked, isnt news to me, my ex came from such a family and there were a few in the street who were all the same.
its not typical but it happens and there is a very easy lifestyle going on between the mums who are hanging out with their mums and their kids.
its a community that keeps itself to itself, but its a shame that benefits can afford such a comfortable lifestyle.
my ex was determined to break out of it.
Sancho - Membermy ex was determined to break out of it.
And did she? Because you know, if she did that'd mean her generation doesn't qualify so her parents, grandparents and greatgrandparents and all of their siblings etc would have had to have never worked, going back probably as far as ww2 and the beverige report. Which frankly would be a greater achievement than getting a job.
Best tell the researchers the details as they failed to find any and luckily you found a lot and all in one street.
It's worth noting that the same papers, and it's readers, who so despair at teenage mums, also work themselves into a self-righteous frenzy of right-wing indignation at the idea of kids being given proper sex education. Without seeing the inherent contradictions involved in this.
They're a bright bunch!
To all of you who think the current "leadership" and Blair and Thatcher ever had or have your interests at heart - enjoy the following -
Working until your 70 something
Having **** all pensions state or other wise
Paying for healthcare (opticians dentists NHS is next)
Watching your kids work for mimimum wage on a zero hours contract
Watching your kids pay crazy rents to the "leaders"
Watching the businesses you work for not paying their corporation tax
Watch your indirect taxation rise every year for the rest of your life
Crack on people - one day the light will dawn (probably when you are wondering how to pay for a new knee at 72 years old so you can get back to work)
The system is designed to profit the rich regardless of the impact on the poor and frankly if you think you are rich as you earn £50k a year think again you are actually piss poor. The unions for a little while got some control of the well being of its members then Thatcher got it back and the rest they say is New Labour history.
The alternative of paying more tax, paying more tax again on my parents semi in the South East when they die, throwing money at welfare because it's somehow 'evil' or cruel to expect people to work is equally as unappealing to me.
Part of the reason we're in this mess is because we're living too long and not having enough children. We've become an upside down pyramid and western financial models only work as pyramid schemes if there is a larger layer joining at the bottom each generation....that isn't happening so the current model becomes unsustainable.
Thankfully I'll be long dead when the sh@t truly hits the fan.
throwing money at welfare because it's somehow 'evil' or cruel to expect people to work is equally as unappealing to me.
No one has said this but no govt has made a commitment to rid of us of the scourge of unemployment
Blaming/demonising the victims of this economic policy is pointless as it is politicians/all of us who have decided unemployment is a price worth paying
You're a proper little ray of sunshine today, aren't you deviant? 😀
Well done you, hope you feel proud of yourself.
Yes I was proud to go to work and do what was expected of me. I knew I had a good job and pay increases in line with every one else in the country, plus a better pension than most too. I didn't ask for a strike for not being paid to cover their jobs for the day either. 😉
Working until your 70 something
I'll still live many times longer than the people who retired 30/40 years ago.
If we live a lot longer you can't keep the retirement age the same, it's just not affordable. Unless people pay more in themselves but that isn't going to be popular...
deviant - Memberthrowing money at welfare because it's somehow 'evil' or cruel to expect people to work is equally as unappealing to me.
I think the fact that you'd represent the argument like this says it all, really. Nobody thinks it's evil or cruel to expect people to work. But, there simply aren't jobs for everyone. Youth unemployment is at its highest for 30 years, underemployment has fallen slightly but is still close to the record high (amounting to half a million FTE unemployed). And even leaving that aside, not everyone is qualified (there are jobs that anyone is qualified for; they just will usually go to someone that's more qualified)
The day there's nobody out of work that wants to work, you can talk like that.
It's the overly simplistic black and white "workers or scroungers" argument that distorts this completely.
In return for benefits, those who can work should be doing their best to get work or experience - but that then gets abused into unpaid volunteering which takes work off others.
But I used to love trying to make appointments to see housing benefits claimants only to be told that they weren't in that week as they were in Spain - I've not had a foreign holiday in 12 years!
The real stupidity is so many HB claimants are in work - so the issue is obviously low wages and lack of affordable housing, the two main issues that no government of either colour has tried to address for 30-40 years now.
Fair point robdob you will live longer than previous generations but I doubt you will be retired longer, it is amazing that people still think we can not afford our NHS/pensions if the "correct" amount of corporation tax was paid none of this would be an issue.
The corporation tax gap is estimated per annum at £70 to £120 billion (HMRC estimates) benefit fraund £3 billion - no s**t Sherlock current UK government borrowing is around £100 billion per annum - there you go no degree in Ecomomics required as I can just about add stuff up.
This is the great "long con" of modern times - borrow money on the open market feed it into the economy make profits from it and pay no tax, then blame all the scroungers and workshy for living off benefits - pure genius
the tax gap is £34bn according to HMRC (2014)
At 6.8% one of the lowest in the world.
Of which over half is criminal/black economy/error/non payment (all ultimately beyond collection), rather than avoidance, evasion and legal interpretation.
[img] http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/6cc36074-5556-11e4-b750-00144feab7de.img [/img]
The real stupidity is so many HB claimants are in work - so the issue is obviously low wages and lack of affordable housing, the two main issues that no government of either colour has tried to address for 30-40 years now.
You make it sound as if low wages is a problem which governments have simply ignored when if fact low wages has been deliberate government policy for the last 35 years.
The reason governments have for the last 35 years been able to drive down wages so that today wages represent a much lower percentage of GDP is because trade unions have been weak for the last 35 years.
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Tony Blair promised before he became Prime Minister that, quote : [i]"we will still have the most restrictive union laws in the Western world"[/i]
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/1997/apr/27/election2001.uk1
You cannot have the most restrictive union laws in the Western world and expect wages to go anywhere other than down.
I will take £34 billion.... still 10 x benefit fraud
In terms of comparative malfeasance, you can have £15bn. 5x.
But it's all yours to do with what you want now.
That's the whole tax gap, the corporation tax gap is £3.9 billion.
Why is there a shock in the wages graph? Follows the long term decline in UK productivity as you would expect esp the sharp falls in the 70s and 90s and the brief rise at the end of the 80s. Perfectly logical.
We would expect that over the long-run real compensation growth deflated by the producer price (the labour costs that employers face) should track real labour productivity growth (value added per hour), so net decoupling should only occur if labour’s share falls as a proportion of gross GDP, something that rarely happens over sustained periods. We show that over the past 40 years that there is almost no net decoupling in the UK
Inconvenient I know!
Still remember how much time the ruling elite spent on improving productivity during the election? A big fat zero. Hmmmm....