[Closed] The Budget

Given this is only showing up the lack of fundamental differences between Labour and the Conservatives, does that make the SNP Her Majesty's Official Opposition?

To be fair to him Ed Milliband is tearing him a new one. Also, Osborne looks out of it.

To be fair to him Ed Milliband is tearing him a new one. Also, Osborne looks out of it.

You should be sat on the Labour benches as they don't seem too impressed with their leader.

To be fair to him Ed Milliband is tearing him a new one. Also, Osborne looks out of it.

*nods*

Edit: He did lose his way a bit in the middle though.

Its all good for us on the M4 corridor. Cheaper riding to Wales with the Severn Bridge toll being scrapped.................. in 2018 🙄

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/budget-to-focus-on-growth-jobs-and-old-greedy-bastards-tempted-to-vote-ukip-2015031896407 ]The Mash nails it![/url]

the two eds seem a bit lost.. same old record left playing for the last 5 years.. wont work isnt working not fair... the records bust boys you need something new to keep us listening..

the two eds seem a bit lost..

[img] [/img]

To paraphrase Malcolm Tucker, they probably had trouble getting the grand piano up the stairs

Some rather good puns in there - Agincourt, two brothers, two kitchens from one mobile app etc 😆

I did laugh at the 2 kitchens internet of things gag

Tax free savings is hardly a give away, with interest rates so low and £15k ISA allowance, I'd be amazed if anyone has any actual interest to declare other than 39p on their current account.

[i]To be fair to him Ed Milliband is tearing him a new one[/i]

Lol!

So. I'm a little bit better off, if I vote for and the party with a visible track record of reducing the defecit and decreasing joblessness vs those that caused it & the racists?

Seems all to obvious. What have I missed?

an understanding of confirmation bias and some basic facts?
or do you mean the Lib dems seeing its a coalition govt

I am sick of saying this but Labour did not cause the sub prime market to crash in the US nor cause the subsequent global turn down that affected all the worlds economies.

GO missed all his targets, blamed the EU and then when it was impriving claimed it as a success.

Nothing I suppose if all you care about is yourself.

Nothing I suppose if all you care about is yourself

And, TBH, isn't that what the majority do...?

What have I missed?

20% reduction in tax free pension allowance, that will cost me in the next 10-20 years or so....

isn't that what the majority do...?

Sadly yes.

isn't that what the majority do...?

That Mash article is very funny and so accurate

Seems all [b]to[/b] obvious. What have I missed?

An 'o' perhaps?.

Oh FFS. I thought it was all about an age of austerity in an effort to get the deficit down and reduce national debt.

A bit of spare cash and an election coming up and its all poncing about with stuff like a penny off beer duty.

Nice to know we've all been suffering these past few years so the likes of Kryton57 gets some pre election bribes.

So. I'm a little bit better off, if I vote for and the party with a visible track record of reducing the defecit and decreasing joblessness vs those that caused it & the racists?

So you've already decided not to vote for [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/where-can-i-go-to-get-an-unbiased-summary-of-the-political-manifestos#post-6754522 ]the party whose actual policies you agree with?[/url]

chambord - Member
Nothing I suppose if all you care about is yourself.

I'm supposed to be selfless and vote for the benefit of others? Who would you suggest? The EDL would quite like Farage, but I wouldn't, so why would I do that?

I'd agree with voting for the best outcome for the country, but I've a family to support so if doing that made me personally troubled why would I? Seems daft.

*Note: I don't really do politics so please bear with my stupidity on this subject if you would.

[quote=somewhatslightlydazed said]
Nice to know we've all been suffering these past few years so the likes of Kryton57 gets some pre election bribes.

You too can benefit. Get supping ale.

I vote for whoever I think makes the UK a nicer place to live in the whole. So it won't be the Tories, or UKIP/BNP.

Oh FFS. I thought it was all about an age of austerity in an effort to get the deficit down and reduce national debt.

A bit of spare cash and an election coming up and its all poncing about with stuff like a penny off beer duty.

As an 'umble common peasant, I'm delighted, and will be voting accordingly

*doffs cap to good Sir George*

[img] [/img]

Hmm. I really need that one stop shop manifesto website to have a read of...

I'd agree with voting for the best outcome for the country, but I've a family to support so if doing that made me personally troubled why would I? Seems daft.

Its also seems daft that you wont vote for the party you most agree with whilst telling us you agree with voting for the best interests of the conutry whilst telling us you wont.

Hmm. I really need that one stop shop manifesto website to have a read of...

Nah, you'll just ignore that too.

Anyway, I for one am delighted that drinking the maximum recommended amount of beer all next year I will save over £5! I might switch to cider to make it up to a tenner.

You know how Nicola Sturgeon was taking the piss out of Westminster budgets? Silly way to run a country, this.

Never understand the fuss about budgets - merely an exercise in taking away from some and giving to others. So the headlines are made by the pundits and the lobbyists reflecting their interests. Meanwhile we get on with life as per...

At least in the budget statement, GO has to be straight(er) with his comments...

Five years ago, the deficit was out of control. Today, [b]as a share of national income [/b]it is down by more than a half.

I wish he was always that precise.

Oh FFS. I thought it was all about an age of austerity in an effort to get the deficit down and reduce national debt.

Reduce the debt? Hmmm.....not even close to doing that. A deficit of any sort increases the level of debt. An actual reduction requires full financial repression (stealing from savers) and that has only been going on for a wee while now. Go relaxed austerity a while back too.

Thrustyjust - Member

Its all good for us on the M4 corridor. Cheaper riding to Wales with the Severn Bridge toll being scrapped.................. in 2018

I may be wrong, but I'm sure that's been on the cards since they built the 'new' bridge in the 90's - the people who built it had 20 years to collection the toll and we allowed to raise the charge a certain percentage a year.

Must be a bloody hard life for you poor wretches on the M4 corridor if all you've got to worry about is the toll on the bridge you drive your Audi across, while heading for ones weekend in the country 😆

#firstworldproblems

Must be a bloody hard life for you poor wretches on the M4 corridor if all you've got to worry about is the toll on the bridge you drive your Audi across, while heading for ones weekend in the country

You understand that South Wales has some of the most deprived areas in the UK, and the bridge toll puts off companies coming into the area due to increased costs.

The Welsh can go home for free soon then ? May affect the immigration figures for England .Farage will be pleased

You understand that South Wales has some of the most deprived areas in the UK, and the bridge toll puts off companies coming into the area due to increased costs.

The post didn't suggest an overly concerned tone about the plight of deprived Welsh areas. which was sort of my point

[i]I am sick of saying this but Labour did not cause the sub prime market to crash in the US nor cause the subsequent global turn down that affected all the worlds economies.[/i]

No, but (in a nutshell)they so over extended the UK, that as soon as something happened, we were doomed! Its like someone in a high paid job planning on doing it for the next 20 years with no fear of anything going wrong and making allowances for it.

(loving Junky's error strewn posts btw...you can just picture him red faced and hammering away at the keyboard! lol)

Nah, you'll just ignore that too.

Why are you sniping at me over that website, when you hinted later that it was loaded? Or did I misunderstand?

You understand that South Wales has some of the most deprived areas in the UK, and the bridge toll puts off companies coming into the area due to increased costs.

Also puts off tourists.

No one in this country was warning of impending doom and GO agreed to match labour spending for example so the tories would have equally over extended us. Its also highly unlikely the conservative would have favoured a higher regulatory approach to the financial institutions than labour or redressed our reliance on it.

I find myself in broad agreement that capitalists/politicians/the people forgot that its history is boom and bust and no one prepared for the inevitable and debt was rife. However that charge is equally true of every country and every politician and most people. We would not have escaped economic downturn no matter who was in power so it was not really the govts fault....remember GO blaming the EU for why he was failing for example.
FWIW the last labour govts ran at a surplus more often than the previous tory ones starting with thatcher [ its only 2 v 4 years mind]

you can just picture him red faced and hammering away at the keyboard! lol)

no need to play the man so can we just stick to the issue?

😀

We would not have escaped economic downturn no matter who was in power so it was not really the govts fault

It's quite simple I think, the labour party like spending money, so people vote for them when there is money to spend. The tories like saving money (or at least pretending they do), so people vote for them when it needs to be saved. That's about it isn't it?

I agree though, the revisionism about the causes of the crash and the deficit is quite amazing. Along with fighting wars again and again, it makes me laugh whenever I hear the phrase 'learning the lessons of history'.

Both main parties absolutely love spaffing thecash about. Just on completely different things.

Well... that used to be the case. now, like with most other things, they both look remarkably similar nowadays. Indistinguishable in most cases.

This thread needs ernies insights here tbh as he covers it far better than i can. Whilst I agree that this is the common perception , though Labour also had the misfortune to be in power when the Oil price quadrupled and the crash of 2008 hit, I think the reality is somewhat different
Remember GO agreed to match Labour prior to the cash so there was no real difference then and have the Tories not just done basically what Labour said - ie the speed of deficit reduction has been slower than they said they would do it and at what labour proposed [ may be wrong on that ], Even now they are broadly similar in deficit reduction

THM says similar about reagonomics and how they talk one way but dont necessarily do it.
Probably best ernie or THM seperate the spin from the reality.

Labour's "deputy chancellor" 😉 is a self-confessed Keynesian economist who ignored history and what he was taught by abandoning the basic principles of his mentor while in office - and he now lectures the coalition. You have to admire his bravado and cheek if nothing else.

Don't expect an accurate explanation of (the multiple causes of) the recession from any politician - nor of the recovery for that matter.

The main cause - excess leverage - remains as true today as ever and will continue to constrain growth going forward. Today's budget gives some promise in relation to one aspect - the level of gov debt - but this is one part of a much bigger story.

Anyway, Grexit is coming back soon.....

Arse to the Politics..

Anyfink on Beer N Fags ?

T's all I'm interested in... Beer N Fags..

Oh N Petrol, any fink on Petrol.

So vats Beer, Fags N Petrol..

??

Saves watchin da bloody News..

You have to admire his bravado and cheek if nothing else.

This is one area where they are all the same. I often wonder if that politics degree at Oxford has a module called 'How to argue that black is white'. It's probably why Miliband is so unpopular, he comes across as distinctly uncomfortable when arguing against either his beliefs (whatever they are), or the plain truth, where the rest of them are perfectly confident and happy to lie through their teeth and deny reality. In this respect Ed Balls probably would have been a better labour leader. Apparently he gets on quite well with Gideon, maybe this is why?

Balls writes very well and is a bright guy - IMO one of the more able economists on the two front benches (and not a historian!). But then the dark mist of politics descends and he acts and talks like an arse - real BS.

Having said that, his "flatlining" was spot on.

But they are pretty close on most policy stuff these days, which makes the politics so depressing (take that whichever way!)

Insert false and libellous joke about cocaine and hookers here.

Kryton57 - Member
So. I'm a little bit better off, if I vote for and the party with a visible track record of reducing the defecit and decreasing joblessness vs those that caused it & the racists?

Seems all to obvious. [b]What have I missed?[/b]

Pudding?

Ed's got the thing sorted

https://vine.co/v/OVPAaM6bnn3

Now that is funny... 😆

Sorry, was there something serious going on to cause this circus to be broadcast live?

Seems all to obvious. What have I missed?
Pudding?

Very good!!!

Proffessor Brian Cox and some irish bloke are tonight and for the next 3 nights, will be looking at stars and planets on bbc tv,using scientific methods, visual displays, diagrams and futuristic computer generated effects, and not once in the series will they be able to explain what planet this gang of tory idiots live on, because its not the one most of see every day.

Only a few weeks to go before theyre jetisoned into orbit around some far off world, never to return.

Junkyard - lazarus
isn't that what the majority do...?

Can I blame thatcher, please

Please do. I'm looking for a new gaff and apparently I can [i]just[/i] afford the council house I left 15 years ago.
Some buy to let monkey getting out now his yields are falling... 🙄

Only a few weeks to go before theyre jetisoned into orbit around some far off world, never to return.

Don't be too sure. Polls very close and plenty of undecided. The Tory wild card (the economy) is looking increasingly like the last trump defeating Labs main arguments. Ed^2 strategy of just playing safe to hit 35 might just backfire and then the SNP intentions might just become slightly different!!!

All starting to get a lot more interesting all of a sudden.

is a self-confessed Keynesian economist

Surely that's a good thing?

The main cause - excess leverage - remains as true today as ever and will continue to constrain growth going forward.

But surely one of the biggest fans of excesses leverage is Mr Osbourne. He has twice used tax payers money to maintain and even increase inflated house prices (help to buy and now his deposit isa thing). If that isn't stoking the flames of a bubble, I don't know what is.....

Yes and no. But at least behave like one if you claim to be one - Balls ignored the teachings of JMK and that was a major error which compounded the problem. He should (and did) know better. So for that, he deserves the criticism. When his boss blew a parting kiss to sensible economics (aka Prudence) in a fit of hubris, he should have intervened.

Edit - I agree govs distorting the housing market is not a good thing IMO. We need less leverage not more. Someone needs to remind Uncle Vince of this too. He's gone very quiet? A smouldering volcano or a lost soul?

But GO was less friendly to his mates in canary wharf/Lombard street. An extra tax on their balance sheets is not encouraging more leverage.

Only a few weeks to go before theyre jetisoned into orbit around some far off world, never to return.

I've very little confidence this will be the case. And I hate to say it, but I'm not even sure it would be the best outcome. Ed Miliband will be a terrible PM. Cameron isn't a very good one, but if he loses we risk worse in Boris or Theresa May becoming PM once Miliband inevitably f*** it up. Whereas if Cameron wins, the labour party have an opportunity to sort themselves out and put someone like Burnham in place for the next one. Not that they will of course. They'll probably go for that careerist automaton Umunna or some other gentile londonista.

How long can the BBC pretend that Peston is an economics editor? Becoming a characature of himself. Where is Flanders when you need her?

(JP Morgan AM I know)

Bloody Tories, their only aim seems to be to make policy which UKIP supporters will like

[img] [/img]

Junkyard - lazarus
I'd agree with voting for the best outcome for the country, but I've a family to support so if doing that made me personally troubled why would I? Seems daft.
Its also seems daft that you wont vote for the party you most agree with whilst telling us you agree with voting for the best interests of the conutry whilst telling us you wont.

So I spent some time last night on four different versions of that websites (a political alignment calculator) plus I also read some of each party's content. Each calculator gave me the same result - a massive majority for the Green party. I'd have never guessed, and I'll do some more reading of the detail but I will remain true to myself and vote for my belief's I guess, rather than the face value headline grabber.

Good work that man, plus sorry for being snippy.

teamhurtmore - Member
Where is Flanders when you need her?

Phew, writing in the FT today

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1f4654dc-cd88-11e4-9144-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3UkSx0IDm

Makes the most important point that all this political noise avoids the real issue (pls note Ed "cost of living" Milliband) - there is a 10 percentage point productivity gap between now and pre-crisis. For all the talk of more jobs being created in Yorkshire by GO, the average worker there produces less in five days than the French do in four. And yet we have a so-called wage crisis?????

Oh for a manefesto which focuses on proper supply-side reforms instead of headline grabbing gimmicks.

Kryton - so you read the Green manefesto and still admit to that conclusion? 😉

Kryton - so you read the Green manefesto and still admit to that conclusion?

Yes, but for the life of me I haven't worked out how the Greens will pay for all the stuff they want to do, including stopping austerity cuts.

More reading required.

Well numbers are not exactly Nathalie's strong point by the looks of things. Perhaps they will outsource/privatise the Treasury to people who can do sums!!! Now that's a radical policy!! 😉

[quote=Kryton57]Yes, but for the life of me I haven't worked out how the Greens will pay for all the stuff they want to do, including stopping austerity cuts.

You don't have to work it out, you don't have to worry about stuff that isn't important on a universal scale. Deficit? So what. National debt? Meh. Trident? 😆 Growth? Bigger? Better? Faster? More? That's what cancers do. Why is it important that the UK is the most successful developed nation by 2020 (or whatever words were used yesterday)? It just doesn't. F-ing. Matter.

Vote for who will give us [u]all[/u] a better chance at a higher quality of living long term, not just for who will make you 50p a week better off for the next five years before the next lot of old, grey men take over.

As most people are discovering, it's the Greens (or Plaid Cymru or the SNP if you live in a constituency where they have a candidate) who are offering that.

Kryton57 - Member
Yes, but for the life of me I haven't worked out how the Greens will pay for all the stuff they want to do.

Don't worry, they haven't either.

[url= http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-31956459 ]Balls won't reverse any of the budget[/url]

The last vestige of any hint of ability to run the country's economy has been surrendered. If Ball's ego ever deserts him he's going to be shocked at how utterly incompetent he is.

All together now "We'll keep the white flag flying here".

Vote for who will give us all a better chance at a higher quality of living long term

How are you defining 'higher quality'?

All together now "We'll keep the white flag flying here".

There's not exactly much to reverse though is there? If each new govt simply reversed all the policies of the previous govt then it'd be pretty chaotic, not to mention impossibly expensive. And they're so close anyway these days that they agree on most things.

and I'll do some more reading of the detail but I will remain true to myself and vote for my belief's I guess, rather than the face value headline grabber.

Not meant as a dig [ and of course voting is secret s no need to answer]. IMHO its commendable to actually do what you have done and however you end up voting, which is clearly your choice, you have given it some serious thought, which is more than most will do, myself included. I know I will vote for the person most likely to beat the Tory where I currently reside just like I do on every non PR vote.

BBC pretend that Peston is an economics editor

Did yo hear him on erm,welll erm urm its well erm ok so its erm well, the Today programme discussing the budget?

To be fair, the article doesn't have his exact words but the full article seems to say that he's talking only of the immediate changes, not the "in the next government we will" stuff which is where the big cuts are. That puts a totally different light on it.

How are you defining 'higher quality'?

Possibly different to you! For me, a high quality of life is where I don't have to be somewhere I don't want to be for 8 hours a day, maybe a fully-functioning health service that's free for everyone might also be quite nice. An energy 'industry' that doesn't hold its clients captive and where the end user is encouraged to be an '[url= http://www.goenergyshopping.co.uk/en-gb ]energy shopper[/url]' in order to get the best deal would be really rather spanky too.

For me quality of life isn't about how much stuff or money I can get and how others perceive me, it's about how much I enjoy my time while I'm alive and, of course, adhering to rule #1* where possible. As I said up there ^, your definition of 'quality of life' might be different to mine.

* don't be a ****.

Possibly different to you! For me, a high quality of life is where I don't have to be somewhere I don't want to be for 8 hours a day, maybe a fully-functioning health service that's free for everyone might also be quite nice...

We're not that far apart. I'd probably go even further though and [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/resource-based-economy-utopian-nirvana-or-eco-fascism ]dismantle the entire system and rebuild it from the ground up[/url]. I'm not sure the greens present a particularly attractive alternative though. Green capitalism is a bit of an oxymoron IMO.

I missed that thread, thanks for the link! For what it's worth, I agree with you but I think that voting for the Green party (or your local alternative) within our current system is the best way to achieve it.

It would be interesting if someone put together a programme of events following the Green Party's election to Government. Plus, on the basis they got re elected for next 25 years, where we would all be after that?

Would it be like one of those end of the world disaster movies or would we all be a happier nation?

Dunno. I'll be 65 in twenty five years' time so possibly dead. I'd hope that my sister's kids might grow up in a fairer, more equal society though.

Would it be like one of those end of the world disaster movies

Climate change research would suggest that we're already on that path with the status quo. Maybe not in 25 years, but likely within 50.