...shit.
If the others were any good this lot wouldn't even get a look in.
Yup i agree, they're only in as it's more of a protest vote than anything else.
From the previous thread..
tyger - MemberIf we didn't have such a weak government and opposition and flawed immigration control then the BNP wouldn't be making the headlines.
I really don't want the BNP to get popular at all but I aware it might because successive governments have done such a rubbish job.
My thoughts exactly!
On the other hand if we didn't have a press that keeps banging on with outright lies and distortions about immigration to create a moral panic to suit the neocon agenda then perhaps folk wouldn't believe there is an issue with immigration.
the truth is of course that the UK is very tight on immigration controls, asylum seekers are treated far worse than in most countries,we have far less asylum seekers than most comparable EC countries.
However the truth does not suit the Neo con agenda of Murdoch and the Barclay brothers and their fellow travellers
The press barons have so much power that all political parties tiptoe around immigration and pander to them. The tory party has a large xenophobic element as well who pander to the lies about immigration.
Thus it gets into the public conciousness that immigration is an issue - whereas in fact its a moral panic created by racist neocons and made worse by pusillanimous appeasement by Labour and Tory.
Totally agree with the OP .......100%
So what we really need are politicians that are good at leading and non-corrupt too. And we need quite a few of them. And we need them soon.
How about for a laugh we set up someone from here to stand for election as an mp somewhere, under the guise of "i know i'm shit so i'll fit right in with you lot".
TJ V Alisdair Darling would be interesting. đŸ˜‰
Goan - you wouldn't like my policies đŸ™‚
I have seriously thought about standing for the council on a green/ cyclist ticket - with the proportional system we have here there would be a chance of getting in.
Main platform -
Make car drivers life harder to make cyclists and bus users better.
No growth economy
taxation on consumption / energy use with massive redistribution
etc etc
On the other hand if we didn't have a press that keeps banging on with .......
You're shoving the blame TJ........there's no point looking for scapegoats imo, specially if you really want deal with the problem.
As the OP says, "If the others were any good this lot wouldn't even get a look in". Particular responsibility lies with the Labour Government - for turning it's back on it's core voters/supporters.
But general responsibility also lies with the left imo - they too, have failed miserably to serve the interests of ordinary people, more concerned as they are with issues such as poncing about telling people how they should talk, and how important "political correctness" is.
The BNP is filling in a vacuum created by [i]others[/i]. You can't get away from that fact.
TJ - I would and do vote for policies like those you mention. Have I just discovered that nobobdy knows my political leanings of which there are plenty?
A question for you all:
Where on the Far Left, Left, Middle, Right, Far Right scale would put each of the parties that we have in the UK? How does this compare with the same party 20 or 30 years ago?
I do thing other government parties hide behind political correctness as a reason not to discuss relevant matters; like immigration, sharia law in the uk etc. All though I do not agree with them, it does take parties like the BNP to get these points properly discussed in public, it’s about time the government stopped shrugging off important matters, told the public the truth and started making proper decisions on behalf of the people how voted for them.
Goan
I'd out the lib dems to the left, Tories and Nu Labour aren't on that scale, they both inhabit a pseudo political world which is more akin to reality TV than politics. I was going to put them in the middle but that suggest they have some form of ideology other than we must get re-elected.
Greens, far left and BNP far right. UKIP, probably right bordering on far right.
each of the parties that we have in the UK
Bit of a job that. But I reckon it's fair to say that today, New Labour are quite a bit to the right of what the Tory Party was 30 years ago, although some might not agree.
In my case, I've managed to move to the left without changing any of my fundamental views. Before Blair was elected leader, I had [i]some[/i] mates in the Labour Party who would denounce me as a right-winger and class-collaborator (in the nicest possible way of course - they were mates after all) Today no one at all in the Labour Party could possibly accuse me of being right-wing, despite the fact that I haven't changed my views.
I had a simular conversation with aP the other day. aP was in the TRG (conservative social-democrat would be a fair description imo) and today he bemused to find himself on the left of British politics despite not having fundamental changed his views at all.
Just to echo some of the sentiments in ernie's last post, I've always seen myself as an old school labour voter, but with things as they are post 'new' labour (pass me a bucket, please), I'm more like a bloody trot!
the truth is of course that the UK is very tight on immigration controls, asylum seekers are treated far worse than in most countries,we have far less asylum seekers than most comparable EC countries.
Don't agree with that one TJ. From OECD figures for asylum seekers for 2007. UK 28,300, Germany 19,164, Italy 14,053, US 40,449, France 29,387. Doesn't look like "far less" to me.
+1 with Alwyn. Until very recently anyone trying to start a serious debate on immigration has been immediately labelled as a racist thus giving the BNP their opening.
Absolute tosh. The BNP are gaining ground because a bunch of gormless idiots are voting for them. You can apportion blame all you want but when it comes to voting, there's only one person who makes the descision. If you lot really think that some working class bloke in Burnley is going to vote BNP because he disagrees with LibDem economic policy then you're even more of a bunch of idiots than I ever imagined, People vote BNP because they are thick, racist, biggoted morons, end of.
Muppets.
I agree entirely with the OP - efforts by members of the current government to deny the BNP it's spot on QT last night only made themselves look worse, as did Jack Straws squirming over the immigration question.
There is now a cross-Parliamentary group called "Balanced Migration" or some such, fronted by Frank Field and Nicholas Soames (now there's an unholy alliance!) who are finally talking some sense on the issue
We need some immigration, but we also need to find a way to sensibly control the population growth. Obviously this would be easier if we forcibly expel all the lazy scroungers, most of whom are white!
I find that whenever a person wants to have a "sensible" discussion about immigration/immigrants, it's just to find a sensible way of saying we're being swamped by it/them.
You know, like when someone says, "No offense mate but..." (you're usually about to be offended)
People vote BNP because they are thick, racist, biggoted morons, end of.
Almost right. They used to vote labour. But now labour isn't interested they've picked a party who wants them. **** 'em. One-in-one-out (just another of my almost infinite solutions).
People vote BNP because they are thick, racist, biggoted morons, end of.Muppets.
So there wasn't any "thick, racist, bigoted morons" in Britain before then ? ..............how bizarre đŸ˜•
Maybe we can win them over by calling them all "thick, racist, bigoted morons".... ? đŸ’¡
.
Signed : A Muppet
~People vote BNP because the current main options are letting us down. they forget that they work for us not the other way round. Fwit Brown is employed by 60 million people but he doesn't think that way. with a huge mix of friends with all sorts of back grounds the common consensus is that we are way to soft on crime, lazy gits on the dole and immigration. Europe is seen as good as long as its to our benefit and doesn't remove our own traditions and laws.Religion and it's variations is seen as great as long as we remain a Christian country, not for the religious of view so much as tradition. Also there is an objection to the idea that any other countries ways are respected ( you are nice to cows or women tourists cover up etc) but here we are not allowed to comment.
I find that whenever a person wants to have a "sensible" discussion about immigration/immigrants, it's just to find a sensible way of saying we're being swamped by it/them.
See what I mean!
So there wasn't any "thick, racist, bigoted morons" in Britain before then ? ..............how bizarre
Lots, always have been. Ask your mate. Sadly (for them)they didn't have a party as well organised or polished as the BNP to vote for. The NF was never in the same position that the BNP are now.
Maybe we can win them over by calling them all "thick, racist, bigoted morons".... ?
You're right. Give them a big hug from me.
As before.
the truth is of course that the UK is very tight on immigration controls, asylum seekers are treated far worse than in most countries,we have far less asylum seekers than most comparable EC countries.
Why did that camp exist in Calais then? If the other European counties treat asylum seekers better than us, why wouldn't they just stay there instead of trying to bust into the UK?
I think people have voted for the BNP as a protest vote, some figures i heard on the TV this AM said they polled a million votes n the Euro lections, that is not a great number, my only concern is if that figure grows at the next election.
I also agree with the OP, it used to be said we have no opposition party, we dont even have a leading party now.
TJ- I enjoy reading your posts, dont always agree with them but if you think Immigrants get a rough deal in the UK you should see the state of them in the Yemen, Malta, Egypt and where i am at the moment Libya to name a few countries i have been to in the last few years. No handouts here, locked in compounds with the square root of zero support,
no, I'm fairly certain the BNP are getting somewhere because Britain is full of complete bellends. I don't think that statement will win them over but I do think it's a fairly accurate one.
I told people 3 yrs ago that immigration was badly managed and would lead to hatred and BNP votes.
I hope they sort it out till next time it happens again etc.
See what I mean!
No I don't uponthedowns. Perhaps you'd like to explain your position?
Sadly (for them)they didn't have a party as well organised or polished as the BNP to vote for. The NF was never in the same position that the BNP are now.
The NF had in fact a very well organised party. Indeed during the 70s the NF was regularly knocking the Liberals into 4th place, something which the BNP has never been able to do on the scale which the NF did.
At the last general election in 2005 in the BNP received 0.7% of the vote, I'm pretty sure that the NF exceeded that in the 1976/1977 elections.
So contrary to your claims, there was [i]without a doubt[/i] a party for the "thick, racist, bigoted morons" to vote for - if they had wanted to vote for one.
Everyone, apart from you trailmonkey, agrees that the BNP did extraordinarily well in the European Elections because of huge voter disillusionment with the main parties, especially the Labour Party.
The Tory Party only received 27.7% of the vote - an appalling result for them. And the Labour Party unbelievably, only received 15.7% of the vote - an unprecedented result for a party of government. And the turnout was even more appalling - 34% of the electorate.
So that means that the Labour Party received 15.7% support from 34% of the electorate, in other words almost no one voted for the Labour Party. Obviously there is widespread lack of confidence in the Labour Party, something which clearly wasn't the case in the 1970s when the NF was a threat. And something which must go a long way in explaining why the BNP are doing well today.
Still, the Guardian-reading pseudo-lefties in the Labour Party can reassure themselves that none of it is their fault......it's all simply down to thick, racist, bigoted morons, end of.
There's nothing quite like finding a scapegoat for failure and deflecting blame, whether the scapegoats be immigrants, or the great unwashed who vote BNP. In the case of those who blame immigrants, it would be fair to say that much of it is down to be being ill-informed and ignorant, I wonder what excuse guardian readers have ?
.... just plain ignorant I suppose đŸ˜•