[Closed] The after life

dont believe but if it gives you comfort ..will this be rainbow bridge again?

nah, everything we "see" is processed data from our perceptual buffers, social conditioning and our brains will try and make sense or patterns out of chaos, you are basically just a mentalist 😀

no need for a kettle, i have a flask

Bless

After losing a friend I kept "seeing" him (similar looking strangers) for ages afterwards. We perceive the reality we want/need/are told to. If that is yours and it works for you then go with it, I fear there may be a rather opposing retort from teh forum.

Last night I dreamt I was running on all fours after a beautiful lady on a bike. I kept running and bounding and leaping, I was literally biting at her heels. As I got closer and closer I could smell her feet, then she rode past a butchers and I got distracted, then I caught site of a marxist cat called ernie and got distracted again.

I think the idea of conservation of energy could be applied

it was so real like she was realy there and for a split second there was an aura of light when i awoke...wierd but so real....

If she comes back tonight do you think you could ask if she's seen my cat ?

He is tabby, goes by the name of Ernie, and he died on the 17th of Nov at 11am.

Ta.

I believe in rein[i]tarnation[/i] - coming back to life as a hillbilly.

stuartie_c - Member

I believe in reintarnation - coming back to life as a hillbilly.

According to my Jewish engineering mate when we died we turn into carbon. End off. But then he refused to will me his property and refused to tell me his future arrangement once he is died. Weird because I am sure he cannot live in the same property once he turns carbon.

[b]elaine anne,

Yes, they will come back for a visit. Some might stay for a while others will be back to say the last goodbye before moving on. [/b]

🙂

I believe in reintarnation - coming back to life as a hillbilly

elaine anne,

Yes, they will come back for a visit. Some might stay for a while others will be back to say the last goodbye before moving on.

And you think this because??

As a matter of interest, where are they coming back from?

where are they coming back from?

have you not read "pet cemetery"? LOCK THE DOORS!

Actually I remembered I was told my first dog went to a nicer farm with more dogs to play with.....

At times like this it pays to ask yourself 'What Would Feynman Say'

This is an account of a conversation with the great man:

Once we were talking about the supernatural and the following anecdote involving his first wife Arline came up. Arline had tuberculosis and was confined to a hospital while Feynman was at Los Alamos. Next to her bed was an old clock. Arline told Feynman that the clock was a symbol of the time that they had together and that he should always remember that. Always look at the clock to remember the time we have together, she said. The day that Arline died in the hospital, Feynman was given a note from the nurse that indicated the time of death. Feynman noted that the clock had stopped at exactly that time. It was as if the clock, which had been a symbol of their time together, had stopped at the moment of her death. Did you make a connection? I asked "NO! NOT FOR A SECOND!" he said "I immediately began to think how this could have happened. And I realized that the clock was old and was always breaking. That the clock probably stopped some time before and the nurse coming in to the room to record the time of death would have looked at the clock and jotted down the time from that. I never made any supernatural connection, not even for a second. I just wanted to figure out how it happened."

I am going to be cremated when I die (I told my wife that tonight and she wasn't very happy), so I reckon there isn't going to be much left of me to come back.

Then again, that conflicts with some of the stuff I have learned about spirituality.

Hmmm, I am confused.

So for you scientists I suggest you try out this experiment if you have a pet which is near departing.

By a bottle of perfume with scent that you never associate with (try not to smell it just in case you bias the experiment) then just before your pet draw its last breath spray some onto its body. But cover your nose etc so you're not contaminated with the scent. Take shower immediately after. Do not tell anyone in the family that you have scent marked the body of your dead pet. Do not use the perfume as it might bias the experiment.

The next test ... sit and wait for the next few days to see if the scent come back to your house. If any of your family members smell the scent then you have a result.

If so then you pet is back to say the last good bye. If not then you are a tight bar-Stewarts that never treated it well while it was alive.

Same technique can be applied to human ... 🙂

Why is the dream about the dog not just a dream about a dog? And why is the mist not just mist? Can't see anything too weird about either.

Chewkw- why would an animal come back to it's captors, you've denied it's freedom to roam, hunt in packs, and it's probably a hideous genetic mutant through some evil selective breeding program and then to top it all off you want to spray it with a human scent so even if there was an "afterlife" it gets to spend it not being able to hunt the heavenly rabbits, 'cos it smells like a tarts boudoir.

iDave - Member

And you think this because??

As a matter of interest, where are they coming back from?

.... Attachment.

Past life association i.e. when it was alive it had a loving family.

So perfume can cross from this life, to the afterlife, and then back again chewkw ? Well I never knew that.

I shall take a bottle of perfume with me next time I visit someone on their deathbed.

Thanks for the tip 8)

tazzymtb - Member

Chewkw- why would an animal come back to it's captors, ...

Not all captors are of vile nature. Some are rescued animals and lovingly taken care of like a member of the family.

ernie_lynch - Member

So perfume can cross from this life, to the afterlife, and then back again chewkw ? Well I never knew that.

I am no scientist so not sure how that works but try it out. Experiment it yourself to find out if that is true or false.

Or try another technique. Use baby powder and sprinkle it on the floor where you can see paw prints. See if there is paw prints but if there is other prints ... if other prints appeared ... then freak out.

🙂

Why don't wasps come back smelling of wasp-killer spray I wonder...

or cows come back smelling of burger?

chewkw - Member

So for you scientists I suggest you try out this experiment if you have a pet which is near departing.

By a bottle of perfume with scent that you never associate with (try not to smell it just in case you bias the experiment) then just before your pet draw its last breath spray some onto its body. But cover your nose etc so you're not contaminated with the scent. Take shower immediately after. Do not tell anyone in the family that you have scent marked the body of your dead pet. Do not use the perfume as it might bias the experiment.

The next test ... sit and wait for the next few days to see if the scent come back to your house. If any of your family members smell the scent then you have a result.

Whatever you've been smoking must be good stuff 😆

marvincooper - Member

Why don't wasps come back smelling of wasp-killer spray I wonder...

They might have but perhaps they could not be bothered as there is not immediately attachment or association with you. i.e. life's too short to bother with and they have move on.

tazzymtb - Member

or cows come back smelling of burger?

Applying scientific rationality ... do you have cows as pets in your house? 😆

MarkBrewer - Member

Whatever you've been smoking must be good stuff

LOL! Try the experiment yourself but try not to freak out if it appears to be true. Yes, try not to smoke some shite as that will bias the experiment.

I am no scientist

I guessed that you might not have been.

"Intuition" you could say.

Oh dear...... get a grip!

ernie_lynch - Member

I guessed that you might not have been.

"Intuition" you could say.

But isn't applying scientific inquiry the way forward?

Absolutely. I'll buy some baby powder tomorrow.

I am no scientist

Applying scientific rationality

So, are you a boffin or not? I'm having trouble deciding.

"Aspiring scientist" I think.

ernie_lynch - Member

Absolutely. I'll buy some baby powder tomorrow.

What are you trying to investigate? Strange anomaly in your house?

stuartie_c - Member

So, are you a boffin or not? I'm having trouble deciding.

Nope. Am not a boffin.

But am I wrong in saying that it can be "scientifically", in a control environment, tested?

What are you trying to investigate? Strange anomaly in your house?

Well yeah of course......I want to know if my cat is coming back a night to see me.

[i]"The product of delta x and delta p is greater than equal to h-bar divided by two"
[/i]
Was that Werner Heisenberg or Mystic Meg?

But am I wrong in saying that it can be "scientifically", in a control environment, tested?

Probably, though I'm not sure what the question means.

BTW RE :

See if there is paw prints but if there is other prints ... if other prints appeared ... then freak out.

What "other prints" might I see ?

I want to know if my cat is coming back a night to see me.

Schrödinger's cat [i]might[/i]...

ernie_lynch - Member

Well yeah of course......I want to know if my cat is coming back a night to see me.

That depends on whether it has strong attachment to you, not just feeding time, or whether it has moved on completely.

In my experience dogs tend to "come back" more often but not sure about the cats as I haven't noticed that yet.

stuartie_c - Member

Probably, though I'm not sure what the question means.

I don't know ... you are the scientist so work it out yourself. 😆

ernie_lynch - Member

What "other prints" might I see ?

Put it this way if you are looking for the paw prints but other "prints" turn up wouldn't that make things more interesting?

I'm uncertain if I'm trolling or being trolled here.

I'm just a hillbilly, after all.

stuartie_c - Member

I'm uncertain if I'm trolling or being trolled here.

Definitely not trolling but no big deal for me as well.

Jeesssuussberg ... do you want me to set up the experiment for you as well? I am not even a scientist ... talking about spoon feeding ...

OK do this:

1. The question is whether there is afterlife or "soul" from departed pets.

2. How to find out? Set up an experimental setting in the form of spraying perfume scent on near dying pets.

3. To eliminate bias. Make sure you are the control subject by not inhaling the perfume or not trying to use the perfume on yourself.

4. Time. See how soon does the scent appear in your house.

5. If the scent appears - your pet loves you. If not - you are a tight mean bar-Stewart.

🙄

OK.

Should I use lady perfume for girl pets and man perfume for boy pets? If I used the wrong scent, my pet might be offended and [i]appear [/i]not to love me which would have altered the conditions and, therefore, the scientific rigour of the experiment.

I buy lucky heather, and three men following a star just like russell grant, said unto me go forth, be a twunt accept any old bullshine and you will live life eternal.it's true because some geyser 2000 years ago parted the sea and a virgin was wallopped from the heavens........ etc etc etc , blah blah blah.

I love religion and wierdo beliefs

stuartie_c - Member

OK.

Should I use lady perfume for girl pets and man perfume for boy pets? If I used the wrong scent, my pet might be offended and appear not to love me which would have altered the conditions and, therefore, the scientific rigour of the experiment.

Yes, do that according to gender if you must.

Helloooo! Yes, try to apply the scientific rigour as much as you can.

duntstick - Member

I buy lucky heather, and three men following a star just like russell grant, said unto me go forth, be a twunt accept any old bullshine and you will live life eternal.it's true because some geyser 2000 years ago parted the sea and a virgin was wallopped from the heavens........ etc etc etc , blah blah blah.

I love religion and wierdo beliefs

Yes, that's stupid as nothing is eternal.

But mine is to ask you to apply scientific inquiry and to make your mind up yourself ... so no sea parting nor virgin waiting for you.

No, it's all just stupid!

Helloooo! Yes, try to apply the scientific rigour as much as you can.

Yep, I can't see the point of carrying out the experiment unless you are prepared to apply the maximum scientific rigour. Otherwise you might as well not bother.

.

so no sea parting nor virgin waiting for you.

Indeed ...... what sort of talk is that ? There'll be no "sea parting or waiting virgins" ....... this is [i]science[/i] ffs.

duntstick - Member

No, it's all just stupid!

Could you make up your mind as to whether you are a person of science or what?

If you are of scientific rational then try the experiment yourself. What is there to loose?

But by saying that everything is stupid you are not being rational.

Could you make up your mind as to whether you are a person of science or what?

I don't think he is chewkw.

Just an irrational fool who fails to see the value of science. Shame.

ernie_lynch - Member

Yep, I can't see the point of carrying out the experiment unless you are prepared to apply the maximum scientific rigour. Otherwise you might as well not bother.

Yes, apply the scientific rigour then otherwise it is not science ... 😆

Indeed ...... what sort of talk is that ? There'll be no "sea parting or waiting virgins" ....... this is science ffs.

Just dismissing that particular story ...

Hmmmm. It's generally based on the idea that I don't maybe trust this geezer from 2000 years ago to be telling the absolute truth
I was brought up in Todmorden and I wouldn't believe that my friend, who was a fairly recent incomer, who had a beard was 13

If you don't smell the perfume you're spraying over your dying pet, how would you recognise it later?

Brian Cox can explain why ghosts cannot exist, its all to do with the 2nd law of thermodynamics, entropy and energy dispersal.

It all goes over my head but as far as he's concerned energy is stored or dispersed and a ghost would defy the basic laws of physics that the universe is built on.

As most of us here do not know what we're talking about and he does, I'm with Cox.

Let's hope there isn't an afterlife, it will stink with all these smells being carried over. Imagine an eternity spent with a canine phantom whiffing of Brut. Give me the void anytime.

But has Cox done the great dog smell experiment? If only further research were done we may all become enlightened 🙂

I've been there.....it's just like here but there's no TJ..

I should add that I do believe Elaines experience was very real to her though as others have mentioned I think these things have their origins in psychology and neuroscience; grief is a powerful thing

Well here we go.

I joined a Spiritualist Church group and have undergone training in being a medium. I was told many times I was clairvoyant but never believed anyone. I joined their "circle" in order to explore things for my own curiosity, and to experience that which the medium was experiencing.

I think it is not a black and white type phenomena. I think some low quality mediums are only picking up psychic energy, and therefore just because they can describe a loved one who has died is not actually proof os survival of death.

Obviously I have also undergone shamanic initiation, and I find many explanations of the afterlife very cheesy and not authentic. I think the deeper realms of reality are very much stranger than we realise.

As for physics and the second law of thermodynamics, well many people used that (and some still do) to prove that evolution can not possibly be true, so just citing that is no proof at all really, especially when much of the matter in our cosmos can not be explained.

And then finally you have many valid philosophical reasons for questioning the validity of modern scientific methodologies. I am not saying science is wrong, just that I find it somewhat limited and arrogant in the extreme that it is the only path to the "truth" and that science can and will eventually be able to explain everything. But this argument is one of questioning the notion of "being" which is maybe too much for a Wednesday morning on STW : )

However, for me I would say go and experiment yourselves with lots of things and don't just try and discuss this rationally through a very small percentage of your intellects!

None of what I have said will make a blind bit of difference to what anyone here thinks. My approach has always been to explore things for myself and see how this matches other people's concepts, assertions and their own experiences. And yes, there are many dodgy "mediums" out there, and there are many terrible shaman, I am not defending them, just saying what I have explored.

The border between the Real and the Unreal is not fixed, but just marks the last place where rival gangs of shamans fought each other to a standstill..
Robert Anton Wilson

Some asparagus that died last night re-visited me this morning

The thing is we think we know everything, but if you go back a few hundred years, what people believed then looks totally ridiculous now

I'm sure science and learning has evolved greatly since then, and in a few hundred years from now, when people look back, the difference will be nowhere near as great, but I'm sure there will still be differences

Some asparagus that died last night re-visited me this morning

Last night's Scallops have returned to me, I'm not sure what perfume the chef used before their dying breath but I do hope none of you have bought your wife any for Xmas. 😯

I'm still confused...

Should I wait until my pet is "near death" before I start the perfume-spraying?

If so, how will I know? Given that cats could be run down any time, maybe I should start today.

If I start today and he was to live to a ripe old age, that's a lot of perfume. Should I buy cheap stuff in which case my pet will think I don't love him, or should I just start right away on the pricey stuff? Perfume or eau-du-toilette? Are there grants available from the mumbo-jumbo foundation for this kind of research?

One other possibility is I acquire a nearly-dead dog for the purposes of experimentation, but that raises a whole heap of ethical issues.

simonralli2 - Member
And then finally you have many valid philosophical reasons for questioning the validity of modern scientific methodologies. I am not saying science is wrong, just that I find it somewhat limited and arrogant in the extreme that it is the only path to the "truth"

Yes, "science" is just a set of protocols and methods thought up by man to explain certain aspects of the world we experience, If you ask the same questions in the language of "poetry" or "art" or "religion" or "mysticism" you similarly get answers than conform to those protocols.

In my opinion, "science" is not about Truth but just another interpretation of our human world view and the over reliance of people on "science" to explain everything is merely born of ignorance and fear......

, well many people used that (and some still do) to prove that evolution can not possibly be true, so just citing that is no proof at all really, especially when much of the matter in our cosmos can not be explained.

Only by people who know nothing about thermodynamics and therefore don't understand why you cannot consider the earth to be a thermodynamically closed system.

Also, pointing out flaws in the arguments of others does not necessarily provide support to yours.

Any minute now: "There is a god". "No there isn't." "Yes there is.." and so on ad neauseum.

There's some weird stuff on this tread but nothing is as weird as Ernie having named his cat after himself.

I killed my dog last night to try chewkw's experiment.
I'm still awaiting the waft of Old Spice...

Last night, I shot my two cats wth a Miroku O/U. My wife has left me and I'm in custody with a bottle of Jazz up my ass.

Merry Xmas.

I am right up for testing this theory. I'll let the dog live a natural life but I'm quite happy to kill the cats now. They leach of us anyway and only pretend they like us at feeding times so it'll be easy to keep the testing period to set times.

All in the name of science. Here pussy pussy.

Last night, I shot my two cats wth a Miroku O/U. My wife has left me and I'm in custody with a bottle of Jazz up my ass.

Hope so it's the least you deserve for owning a Miroku, have some decency man.

Has it worked if I just smell one of her farts? (although they do kind of cling to the curtains and furniture, so I guess that might just be a lingerer)

"science" is not about Truth but just another interpretation of our human world view

But science is systematic, observable, reliable, repeatable and more importantly testable within our current understanding of the universe.

A ghost cat on the end of your bed, however real to the person who saw it, is certainly none of the above, especially testable; it is a matter of faith, of which I have none unless the subject matter is systematic, observable, reliable, repeatable and testable.

BenHouldsworth, you could not be more right. But you might as well bash your head against a wall, you'll not convince those who misunderstand or mistrust science, or have an unshakeable (if irrational) faith in something that no one can ever put to the test.

But science is systematic, observable, reliable, repeatable and more importantly testable within our current understanding of the universe.

Although I well understand this, science does not progress in this manner. Many scientific "discoveries" were in fact new perceptions of meaning, i.e. new ways of understanding the same data coming in through the senses. When Galileo looked through his telescope, he did not "see" mountains on the moon. He had to come to this conclusion after many observations. Our "seeing" is not purely sensory, it is loaded with our conceptual understanding of the world. Therefore the statement above, as interpreted by many scientists, can be regarded as "naive empiricism".

This problem of interpreting the world through our senses, while also considering them as unreliable, leads us to many disputes in science as people have many different ways of interpreting facts.

Therefore I agree with BenHoldsworth, although the problem of course is people interpret science through many many world views, paradigms, assumptions and metaphysics, you name it. This is a huge problem for science.