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Was it just at our uni that whenever someone mentioned that they went to a boarding school everyone used to say “so your parents didnt like you either then”?
Everyone I know says that, doesn't mean they actually mean it. Even my mum and I cheerfully say she got rid of me because she hated me, of course we have a sense of humour and don't actually mean it. I know precious few people, from my school at least, who weren't grateful for it.
Everyone I know says that, doesn’t mean they actually mean it.
Are they judgemental ****** or not?
Are they judgemental ****** or not?
Some on this thread most certainly are.
Everyone I know says that, doesn’t mean they actually mean it. Even my mum and I cheerfully say she got rid of me because she hated me, of course we have a sense of humour and don’t actually mean it. I know precious few people, from my school at least, who weren’t grateful for it.
Of course they were grateful - Stockholm syndrome is a suit of armour. These kids have no other alternative 🙁
If your parents were overseas it's not so bad - but UK parents sending their own kids to UK boarding school. Damn that is cold.
If your parents were overseas it’s not so bad – but UK parents sending their own kids to UK boarding school. Damn that is cold.
In your opinion; have you ever actually spoken to students at a private school and asked them their opinion?
Thought not.
Some on this thread most certainly are.
Indeed.
AA I have nothing more to say to you, I know when someone is trying to get a rise and I'm not going to bite.
Of course they were grateful – Stockholm syndrome is a suit of armour. These kids have no other alternative
Are you suggesting I have Stockholm syndrome? That the people I went to school with are also suffering? That my parents are "just cold"?
There is trolling and then there is just plain ****ing mean. Casting aspersions on my parents, my peers and myself is over the line. You want to get personal? Ive been banned off here for less.
AA I have nothing more to say to you
OK.
In your opinion; have you ever actually spoken to students at a private school and asked them their opinion?
Thought not.
Yes - my mate. He hates his parents for sending him off and “couldn’t be arsed with him.”
He would never send his kids to private school now.
1. It's a very emotive subject.
2. The range of standards within the state system is huge.
3. Private schools are little or no better than the very best state schools.
4. It would be highly desirable if all schools could be as good as the best schools.
5. Until that happens, parents who have the means can't be blamed for playing the hand they're dealt and prioritising their children's education.
6. Abolishing private schools is an admirable end, but it is not the means by which we address inequality. Lots of other things have to happen first, otherwise we're just achieving equality by levelling down. No one wants that.
Does anyone disagree with any of this?
Yes – my mate
Every person I know who boarded would disagree wholeheartedly. I know a lot of them.
A shame that your friend's experience was bad, but it doesn't mean that it's the norm.
Yup.
I do.
Completely.
Abolishing private schools is an admirable end, but it is not the means by which we address inequality. Lots of other things have to happen first, otherwise we’re just achieving equality by levelling down. No one wants that.
If we maintain the status quo, nothing will change.
Those with the power to actually improve the state sector will have no incentive to do so.
Their self interest will prevail. They will continue to send their kids to private schools and pay lip service to genuine improvement of the state sector.
See Diane Abbott etc.....
Sometimes a radical change is required.
All that's needed is the will to do so.
It's quite simple.
You have to ask yourself if you believe in equality of opportunity.
If you don't, be prepared to confront those who do, and accept that other people are happy to challenge your greed and entitlement.
Rusty, how do you address point.2?
By raising the quality of state education to a nationally recognised standard of excellence.
Do you believe in equality of opportunity?
Agree 100%, which is what I was referring to when I said other things had to happen.
Sorry Rusty I missed your edit, you have restated my point 4, which obviously I agree with.
Sorry, I was trying to be as concise as possible. 🙂
Those who believe in private education by definition do not believe in equality of opportunity.
Private schools are little or no better than the very best state schools.
I would be astonished, given the massive differences in per pupil funding if this was the case and would like to know how you came to this conclusion.
This thread is very informative, it explains why I don't get on with some folk here and disagree on almost everything. There's a mindset and set of attitudes that come with a public school education along with a cocky insecurity that even comes across on a forum.
Who would that be?
Grade the victims of their education:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/08/boarding-school-syndrome-joy-schaverien-review
for cockiness and insecurity and you can make a list for me. There have been other threads on this that I nicked the above link from.
Back when I had to (reluctantly) get to grips with things pedagogical a study by a guy called Brownlow put into words things I'd observed in the world around me about language registers and the ability to fuction in different environments. The ability to play with register and adapt your language to whatever situation you're in is key to acceptance and success. You can also also do just the opposite if you feel like it. Read back through this and other threads where people willingly or through their comments reveal their educational backgrounds and you might find (I do find) that it has a lot to do with if people get on or don't on this forum. No names, you're either aware of it or you aren't, Brownlow was right.
I quite enjoyed my time at private (boarding) school although I'm sure many kids had a crap time at private school but then I'm guessing many kids at state school did to. OK going somewhere else to live for a big chunk of the year at 11 was a bit of a shock but I soon got used it, some took longer for sure but I wasn't aware of anyone being damaged for life by the experience. About 1/4 of the school were day pupils so no difference for them in terms of parental relationship than if they'd gone to a state school.
Ultimately it would be good if the UK state education were so good that most private schools went out of business as they wouldn't be offering any educational benefit but forcibly scrapping them first in the hope that it will instigate change and improvements seems a stupid idea to me (borne of trying to get headlines rather than sensible policy making)
Grade the victims of their education:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/08/boarding-school-syndrome-joy-schaverien-review
for cockiness and insecurity and you can make a list for me
I could save myself some time if we just had a member list.
Cockiness and insecurity is not an exclusive trait of people who went to boarding school, this forum should be very good proof of this.
There’s a mindset and set of attitudes that come with a public school education along with a cocky insecurity that even comes across on a forum.
I think that says a lot more about your personal prejudice than the reality. I'm sure there are plenty of cocky, insecure public school pricks. But as someone else pointed out, these are far from exclusive traits of a public boarding school education. Unfortunately, these traits appear to be common throughout our society.
Those who believe in private education by definition do not believe in equality of opportunity.
I don't think it's so black and white as that. I don't "believe" in private education as a concept and would much rather not have to spend £15k a year or whatever per child on education. But if I think the state system is not good enough then I would certainly go private. Our 2 daughters are currently in state primary school (10 and 7) and I can't fault it so far. Our local grammar school is very good, so that's an obvious option (as they are both academic). Our local comp is also well regarded and there are several private schools nearby. So I think we are quite fortunate in those respects and could afford the private fees IF necessary. I see private education very much as a last resort option in all honesty.
Equality of opportunity is all very nice as a concept, but it's really not how our capitalist society works in practice. But at least there is free state education available and it's not all shit as some people seem to think. It is however clearly inconsistent and clearly lacking funding. But that's down to taxation and government spending priorities. I'm not convinced abolishing private schools would help much, if at all in that respect.
Now I know that private schools do not equal boarding schools but this article clearly outlines the damage boarding schools do and the resultant damage to the country
Boarding schools warp our political class – I know because I went to one
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/07/boarding-schools-boris-johnson-bullies
The joke used to be that poor people had their kids taken into care while the rich sent their kids to boarding school but I think there's more than an element of truth to it.
My parents were crap at parenting. Our house was just a battle ground with raging arguments every night. Eventually (I was 12) we sat down and decided it would be best if I went to boarding school. There was all kinds of justifications we told ourselves, we were living in the Middle East at the time and the international school I was going to wasn't good enough being the main one, but the main reason was that as a family we could not get along. My parents failed at their job and I left.
It's difficult to gauge how much damage boarding school did me compared to if I had stayed with my parents but I am very ****ed up.
My advice to anyone considering sending their kids to boarding school would be just put them up for adoption instead. It takes away the doubt.
Now I know that private schools do not equal boarding schools but this article clearly outlines the damage boarding schools do
I think you meant CAN do. My experience of boarding school (from age 11) was not the same as the guy that wrote the article. Was it all some amazing happy time? No but then I know many people going through state schools wouldn't say their time in one was entirely positive.
Are there some shit private/boarding schools out there with bullying and sexual abuse issue? Undoubtedly but that doesn't mean all are like that. I've got no idea if sexual abuse happened at my school, I was certainly never aware of it it happening let alone experienced it. Was there bullying? Yes but not relentless and not actually that 'full on', I got punched and kicked on a few occasions but I was also a bit of a mouthy git to older pupils, sure that still doesn't deserve physical assault but stuff like that happens in any school and I doubt it's anymore prevalent in private schools.
I can understand if you do end up in a situation where you're relentlessly bullied then boarding school must be a nightmare and it would likely psychologically scar you. That's a reason to better monitor pupil behaviour and exclude bullies etc. in boarding schools not ban boarding schools themselves.
I've also said it before, whilst there is the stereotypical private/boarding school like Eton and Harrow there are far more schools out there full of pupils there for reasons other than to try and get into/remain in the 'elite' and go on to Oxford/Cambridge and head up a hedge fund or become a politician. Whether or not pupils get a better education at a private school isn't really relevant, it should be up to parents to determine if it's of value - it's not for the government to decide (and there are other reasons besides quality of education why children end up in private schools)
I've got no issues with private schools not receiving funding from tax payers, whether they should get tax breaks is a bit more of a grey area (if the funding cost per pupil is still less than if in state education then why not?). But banning them? It's just a stupid, ill thought out policy designed to get cheap votes from people that feel they've been shafted by the privileged elite and that Labour's on their side. They may well have been shafted but it's not due to private schools existing
Can is correct perhaps with " and often does"
And very often doesn't - or have you done a full survey over the last xx amount of years of every privately educated person? Thought not...
Just wondering if banning private schools would extend to the specialist schools like the Royal Ballet School, Elmhurst Ballet School, Hammond School, Tring School for the Perfoming Arts, Cheethams School of Music, etc. as they offer fantastically superior education in these areas compared to state schools. Would closing them bring up the standard of dance & music in the state sector.
On a side note the government pays for most of the pupils at these private schools through the MDS (Music & Dance Scheme), which is income dependent but is still pretty generous considering a family income of £90k still gets over half the annual cost (boarding) of £30k paid.
Fuzzy - no others have done that and the results are clear.
Look everyone, TJ is right. All private education is evil, especially boarding schools. Every single person who went to one is an evil, mentally and psychologically damaged person who probably stabs kittens for fun.
How dare anyone say their experience, or those of the overwhelming majority of their friends, differs from these cold, hard facts.
I'll just leave this here. Remind you of anyone?
You develop a shell, a character whose purpose is to project an appearance of confidence and strength, while inside all is fear and flight and anger. The shell may take the form of steely reserve, expansive charm, bumbling eccentricity, or a combination of all three. But underneath it, you are desperately seeking assurance. The easiest means of achieving it is to imagine that you can dominate your feelings by dominating other people.
Sounds like every single person who was privately educated. After all, they're all exactly the same, aren't they? Can't argue with facts.
I’ll just leave this here. Remind you of anyone?
Actually I think it's just described every single person I've ever met, to a greater or lesser extent. It's just a description of human nature.
But banning them? It’s just a stupid, ill thought out policy designed to get cheap votes
+1 you can't ban privilege, some people are wealthier than others, some people are cleverer than others, some people are healthier than others as much as I'd like to try and level the playing field that's life.
Private schools bring in funding from foreign students and I can't see the super wealthy letting their kids go to insecure state schools with fear of abduction etc
Fuzzy – no others have done that and the results are clear
FFS TJ your obvious dislike of private schools is leading you to post utter bollocks. Let me try educating you with facts:
No comprehensive survey has been carried out (I know this as I was privately educated and no one has asked me).
Results from whatever survey(s) have been carried out are not clear. One or a few psychologists have <span style="text-decoration: underline;">interpreted</span> some surveys. I'm not saying they're 100% but I know their findings don't match my own experience and I know the sample of data they're working on isn't large enough for anyone to draw a definitive conclusion from.
I have worked in private schools for the past 10 years, and the quality of the children we produce is truly amazing. If I had the disposable income (and my kids had the ability to cope with the workload) then there is no doubt they would be in private. From educational support to sports coaching, the difference between state and private is night and day. Yes, not every school is suitable for every child. But this is just as prevalent with the state school offerings. I have had pupils who have struggled at one private school achieve great things through a change of environment at another (both boarding and day), and I've had children come through on scholarships who have achieved far, far in excess of what would have been possible in the state environment.
For balance, my wife is head of SEN for a 16+ college, she sees 1st hand the effects of budget cuts and pressures on the state system - redistributing the facilities of the private sector will not solve any of this. Quite what my local state school would do with an additional 5 rugby pitches (apart from sell them for housing) is anyone's guess. They cannot afford to maintain the facilities they have, let alone the listed buildings of the Private school.
+1 you can’t ban privilege, some people are wealthier than others, some people are cleverer than others, some people are healthier than others as much as I’d like to try and level the playing field that’s life.
Private schools
...give even more advantage to the already advantaged, disadvantage the less advantaged still more than they already are, making the country less fair and meritocratic. Things aren't like this in more successful countries, and they don't have to be like this here.
How good private schools are is really not relevant - its their effects on the country which are really really bad.
Quite what my local state school would do with an additional 5 rugby pitches (apart from sell them for housing) is anyone’s guess. They cannot afford to maintain the facilities they have, let alone the listed buildings of the Private school.
Sell it and educate many more people better?
+1 you can’t ban privilege, some people are wealthier than others, some people are cleverer than others, some people are healthier than others as much as I’d like to try and level the playing field that’s life.
Private schools bring in funding from foreign students and I can’t see the super wealthy letting their kids go to insecure state schools with fear of abduction etc
Da fa?!?
Of course some people are wealthier than others. And if it's a result of an individual's personal merit (be it talent, intelligence, or whatever), then great. They have made it, so they deserve it. But there should be limits on how much can be passed on. Inheritance tax, instead of hitting a middle or lower class family where it hurts, should be redirected at the genuinely wealthy.
As for people being cleverer than others, great. Let there be academically-oriented schools and vocationally-oriented schools all generously-provisioned, where students of all different of gifts can thrive. Private schools only engender a false sense of achievement of kids who are being hot-housed to achieve. It's all bullshit.
And yes, some people are healthier than others. And those who suffer more deserve to be supported by those who are more fortunate. End of. I don't get what you're saying. Should healthier people get better-provisioned hospitals?!?
Finally, are you suggesting that the super-wealthy can't send their kids to state schools for fear of abduction? If that was really a concern for anyone other than the most rare cases in the world, I would be surprised. And anyone else can **** off.
Written by: A middle-aged man from a wealthy Canadian home who attended a state school his whole life, but was part of an internally-selective academic programme. So I have neither wealth-envy nor academics-envy.
I really dislike all of the politics of envy on this thread. The level of ignorance about how independent schools operate is also astounding. It almost makes me want to vote Tory (something I've never done), just to piss off all of the self righteous, let's-drag-everyone-down-to-a-mediocre-level lefties who shout the loudest on this forum.
That is all.
JP
Just to summarise this thread:
1. Private education is a clearly unfair advantage that cannot be allowed to continue
2. However Private schools aren't better than good state schools
3. Private education makes creates dysfunctional and unproductive humans
4. Merely the act of closing them with no other defined action would improve all education in the UK.
5. Yeah but, no but, I met someone once and Boris Johnson, so there.
Got it.
I really dislike all of the politics of envy on this thread.
Why is it the politics of envy? I have had a very good education, I would just like everyone to get a better chance.
The level of ignorance about how independent schools operate is also astounding.
Not surprising given the fact thatvonly a small number of people who go to them and then go on to dominate top jobs that others rarely get the chance to break in to