[Closed] That "surplus" Giraffe.

Just read an article claiming that Longleat put down six lions over the winter, including cubs. I reckon it's not that easy to rehome jungle animals.

I'd be interested in knowing how much the equivalent weight in meat for the zoos carnivores costs.

I'd be interested in knowing how much the equivalent weight in meat for the zoos carnivores costs.

Almost certainly less than the upkeep costs of a giraffe calf for two years.

Whats the problem? They wanted to reduce interbreeding. Killed the animal humanly and are going to use the meat/body for food and research. Seems like a good solution to me.

Were Findus involved in any way?

Read several zoo's offered to re-home it but to me sounds like the zoo couldn't be arsed to sort it out.

Thats interesting as the bbc radio 4 was adamant that they couldn't find any European zoos to take it as they were maxed out as well..so its lion fodder

Last paragraph from the link above

The director of a wildlife park in the Netherlands, Robert Krijuff, whose last-minute offer of a place was also rejected, said: "I can't believe it. We offered to save his life. Zoos need to change the way they do business."

And Yorkshire Wildlife Park also one in Sweden offered to take it in.

From what I've read, they planned to kill the giraffe because they couldn't find a home for him, then a few places stepped up at the last minute, but they went ahead and did it anyway. It's a shame they didn't check that there would be a home for him before they allowed his parents to breed, but at least the lions will get some authentic home cuisine out of it...

Animal eugenics

You've got some neck suggesting that.

It's a shame they didn't check that there would be a home for him before they allowed his parents to breed

I suspect part of the issue is not so much the parents, but what to do with a MALE giraffe, how many makes do you actually need and how many females?

Read several zoo's offered to re-home it but to me sounds like the zoo couldn't be arsed to sort it out.

I can imagine that, outside of the stresses on the animal itself, postage costs for a giraffe aren't cheap.
Or maybe it was outside the size limits for Royal Mail...

Come on crazy-legs giraffes a tall lanky things, wrap it in bubble wrap and any decent postie would scrunch it through a letter box no hassle.

It's not like they're troublesome to transport

[img] [/img]

Can we also put down surplus apostrophes - humanely - too?

[quote=crazy-legs ]I can imagine that, outside of the stresses on the animal itself, postage costs for a giraffe aren't cheap.
Or maybe it was outside the size limits for Royal Mail...

I'm sure they'd be happy to take it to an auction in Chertsey.

Can we also put down surplus apostrophes - humanely - too?

Can we also put down surplus "O" - humanely - to?

To where?

Why did they wait 2 years to kill it?

Not much of a meal for their tigers before.

I can imagine that, outside of the stresses on the animal itself, postage costs for a giraffe aren't cheap.
Or maybe it was outside the size limits for Royal Mail...

If it had been an elephant they could have transported it in the trunk.

Seems that its 'disposal' isn't the end of the story. They went "hey everyone, come and watch!"

https://twitter.com/OpRoar/status/432471028057387008/photo/1

[img] [/img]

More [url= http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jy40Cja6rGmotDrlx9Cqds8_n4sQ?docId=cd2ef7c9-2329-4097-bdd2-f115187c7c91&hl=en ]here[/url].

A crowd of visitors, including small children, looked on as the giraffe was put down [with a bolt gun]. Some grimaced while others took photos as he was autopsied and chopped up.

A full-maned lion later tucked into the giraffe's remains, fed to carnivores at the zoo.

Good grief.

(sorry, I've just realised that some of that was in the original link, I hadn't read it till now)

Pretty sad.

Still a bit 'meh' about it, spectacle or not. The giraffe could never be allowed to breed, so what happens in a few years when you want to keep it with a female or want to replace it with one than can? Put it down then when no one is watching?

I think it's a valuable lesson/issue that more people should be aware of, bucketed in with things like where does your meat come from and what happens to ill animals etc Too many folk are all too happy to gloss over the 'unpleasant' realities of it all.

This happens thousands of times every single day with cattle. Except it's not lions, it's you lot.

More about the costs associated with rehousing IMHO
Giraffes are 10 a penny but cost a bloody fortune to transport.

stop it molgrips, you are making me hungry, anyway I had bacon for breakfast so not guilty there on the old beef front!. maybe tomorrow, the local sandwich shop does a superb hot beef and horseradish bap.... no giraffe though

[quote=molgrips ]This happens thousands of times every single day with cattle. Except it's not lions, it's you lot.

Come to think of it, why aren't they selling giraffe steaks?

Should've kept the lions hungry for a couple of weeks and then let the surplus giraffe loose in the lion pen.Then let the giraffe's mum in for payback.Would've drawn a good crowd too.

I once had giraffe at The Carnivore in Nairobi. Was quite nice actually.

I once had giraffe at The Carnivore in Nairobi. Was quite nice actually.

not a whole one surely-do they do anything with its skin--looks like it would make a funky coat...

The whole thing can be summed up (like many other ****ed up things) in one word, 'Humans'.

The drumsticks look a bit big.

Lion eats giraffe - that's news? Much ado about nothing.

Lion eats giraffe - that's news? Much ado about nothing.

Reading or comprehension fail, surely?

That, or tedious trolling

I'd say that the trolling is the response of the media to a fairly understandable decision by a zoo director regarding managing the animals in his facility.

By making its execution a show and tell? "Hey kids, who wants to go and see a giraffe get shot in the head?" Yaaaay!!

I'd say that the trolling is the response of the media to a fairly understandable decision by a zoo director regarding managing the animals in his facility.

Evidently a reading / comprehension fail then, seeing as the reports quite clearly state that other zoos would have taken the animal in order to save it. Thus, executing it was merely a spectacle, for what purpose, who knows?

My reading comprehension is fine, thanks. Test your own on this brief passage:

“Why not transfer the giraffe to a zoo which is not part of the breeding programme or to a zoo that is interested in getting a giraffe?”

“Only zoos that follow certain rules can be part of international breeding programmes. In Europe this is only the zoos that are members of the European Association of Zoos and Aquaria (EAZA). EAZA is an association that counts just over 300 members.

As a member of EAZA you agree to the following rules of not selling animals, working on a scientific basis and ensuring animal welfare. The international breeding programmes are fully controlled and open and are collaborations between institutions that follow from the same set of rules. This is important for the breeding programmes to work.”

...and ensuring animal welfare.

They did well there. I'm sure it couldn't be better after being shot and butchered. I suspect it'll be going out for a beer with its mates tomorrow 🙄

Thought the public dissection was a joke when I first read it.
I get that they've done this before and there are possibly educational reasons for chopping up an animal in public - think they might have swerved it in this case given the international media circus.

Zookeeper surely deserving of a cock punch for letting an unwanted giraffe be born in the first place.

Zookeeper surely deserving of a cock punch for letting an unwanted giraffe be born in the first place.

Yeah, right. You try persuading a 18 foot Giraffe to wear a condom.

Zookeeper surely deserving of a cock punch for letting an unwanted giraffe be born in the first place.

How do you suggest he does that - sits the parents down for a chat about the birds and bees?

Zookeeper surely deserving of a cock punch for letting an unwanted giraffe be born in the first place.

Seriously - if you eat meat, then you are in NO position to complain about this. Giraffes aren't any different to the animals you eat.

Giraffes aren't any different to the animals you eat.

They do have quite long necks.

Missed a trick, if you're going to feed a giraffe to lions why not give it a few minutes of running free first, and the lions a chance to stretch their legs...

DrJ - Member

My reading comprehension is fine, thanks. Test your own on this brief passage:

“Why not transfer the giraffe to a zoo which is not part of the breeding programme or to a zoo that is interested in getting a giraffe?”

“Only zoos that follow certain rules can be part of international breeding programmes. In Europe this is only the zoos that are members of the European Association of Zoos and Aquaria (EAZA). EAZA is an association that counts just over 300 members.

As a member of EAZA you agree to the following rules of not selling animals, working on a scientific basis and ensuring animal welfare. The international breeding programmes are fully controlled and open and are collaborations between institutions that follow from the same set of rules. This is important for the breeding programmes to work.”

DrJ, that says absolutely nothing about transferring to other zoos outwith the breeding programme- only that they can't sell to other zoos. So, reading comprehension again I'm afraid.

They do have quite long necks.

Same number of vertebrae though. They are a type of deer, incidentally, so technically it's venison.

DrJ, that says absolutely nothing about transferring to other zoos outwith the breeding programme- only that they can't sell to other zoos. So, reading comprehension again I'm afraid

It says that if a zoo wants to be part of the EAZA programme - which presumably the CPH zoo does - then it has to follow rules about selling animals etc. Hope that clears things up for you.

venison you say-- could be a good alternative to adulterated meat we are presented with..

Tastes more like pork than venison to me (ditto Carnivore in Nairobi)

Can't really see what the fuss is about here. The much bigger question is whether zoos have a role at all. If you accept that they do, then why hide the killing and the use of the meat. Openness helps education - same as visiting an abattoir. If we want to be squeamish about how animals are killed, why they are being killed etc, why have them in zoos in the first place?

I see a role for zoos but would still prefer that they didn't exist.

DrJ - Member

It says that if a zoo wants to be part of the EAZA programme - which presumably the CPH zoo does - then it has to follow rules about selling animals etc

Er yes, that's exactly the point and exactly the bit you're getting wrong. Selling animals, not transferring animals. Other zoos offered to take the animal, not to buy it.

Hope [i]that [/i]clears it up for you 😛

Hope that clears it up for you

I said he had trouble reading...

This was the correct thing they did.

This doesnt really surprise me from a country with the reputation it does for the way it treats pigs.

Which is why I don't touch Danish bacon.

This was not a Danish pig. This was a giraffe from Africa. The lion must eat also. This is the law of the jungle.

Did I say it was a pig? I am just saying the way they have gone about it doesnt surprise me given their track record.

Cougar - Moderator

By making its execution a show and tell? "Hey kids, who wants to go and see a giraffe get shot in the head?" Yaaaay!!

Someones missed a trick here. How cool would it be to have mounted its neck and head on a plaque like this, and stuck it on your wall?

[img] [/img]

You could have it sticking out of a window on the other side of the room

😀

Which is why I don't touch Danish bacon

Maybe you should ...

[url= http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/danish-pig-farmers-reduce-antibiotics-to-prevent-drug-resistance-a-933344.html ]http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/danish-pig-farmers-reduce-antibiotics-to-prevent-drug-resistance-a-933344.html[/url]

"Danes take a different road

Denmark, the world’s largest exporter of pork, banned the use of antibiotics for growth promotion in animals in 1995 and banned all non-therapeutic uses of antibiotics in 2000. Denmark uses far less antibiotics per kilogram of meat produced than does the industry in the U.S.(see chart)."

[img] http://www.remappingdebate.org/imagebrowser/view/image/623/_original [/img]

It says that if a zoo wants to be part of the EAZA programme - which presumably the CPH zoo does - then it has to follow rules about selling animals [b]etc[/b]

Helps if you read the whole thing ...

[img] [/img]

Helps if you read the whole thing ...

It does. Which bit of killing the giraffe and cutting it up was

...[b]ensuring animal welfare[/b].

Which bit of killing the giraffe and cutting it up was

[i]...ensuring animal welfare.[/i]

I guess you need to understand that "ensuring animal welfare" does not necessarily mean being nice to each individual animal.

I guess you need to understand that "ensuring animal welfare" does not necessarily mean being nice to each individual animal.

I do. I'm sure neutering the giraffe would have achieved the same outcome, if there was some reason why it couldn't be transferred to another interested view.

If you were given the choice of a vasectomy or a bolt-gun to the head and becoming lion food, I'm pretty certain you'd happily forsake the need to produce little DrJs

DrJ - Member

Helps if you read the whole thing ...

What, the "etc" that isn't actually in the original text you quoted, so you had to add it in yourself afterwards? Yeah, I read that but ignored it for the obvious reason 😆

Yeah, the "etc" that stood in for parts of the original text that I didn't quote.

This was a giraffe from Africa.

Well, the giraffe wasn't from Africa was it. It was born in Denmark.

Yeah, the "etc" that stood in for parts of the original text that I didn't quote.

Etceteras or not, would you agree that there were plenty of options available to the zoo that meant that the animal's slaughter was unnecessary? Or, as I wrote before, would you prefer to be shot in the head rather than have a vasectomy in the interests of your welfare? Because that's essentially what you're endorsing for the giraffe.

So imagine it does get transferred to another Zoo. What happens when the opportunity comes to get a breeding giraffe but they cant due to this one?

I'm not even sure why people are outraged, is it because it's a cute exotic animal rather than a cat or dog which are put down all across the uk every day?

is it because there was a 'show' of it happening that possibly taught valuable lessons to the people watching?

The two parks that offered to take the giraffe were both part of EAZA, and should have known better than to offer to take the animal in.

If the breeding program had deemed that this animals genes were well described in other specimines, then, by agreeing to be part of EAZA, they'd already agreed to adhere to the breeding program.

Hanging onto an animal for 25+ years, when it won't benefit the species as a whole is a massive waste of resource for all involved. Something like 77% of captive giraffes are [url= http://www.aszk.org.au/docs/giraffe.pdf ]inbred[/url] to a greater or lesser degree, so euthanizing one animal to allow another, more genetically distinct one to be be born and raised will help dilute the future gene pool can only be of benefit to the captive breeding in the long run.

My understanding of this calf being kept alive for 18 months was to allow the mother to fulfil her natural care giving instincts, and reach a point where naturally the calf would be preparing to leave the herd anyway, to diminish stress caused to the other animals. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

People's objections are purely down to aesthetics, and the idea that a giraffe is somehow more "beautiful" and special than a cow or pig.

would you prefer to be shot in the head rather than have a vasectomy in the interests of your welfare?

If I were to have a vasectomy, I'd lie still while the nice nurse gave me an injection, and not risk breaking my neck after being shot with a tranquiliser.

then why hide the killing and the use of the meat. Openness helps education - same as visiting an abattoir. If we want to be squeamish about how animals are killed, why they are being killed etc

OT but..
we went to the Highland Wildlife Park near Aviemore over the summer. Very nice and you can see all kind of wildlife including red deer which aren't exactly a rare breed round here. Apparently, the deer were there when the park was built so the park builders just put a fence round them. To refresh the gene pool every so often they open the gates and let a few more in, and when there's too many, a few are killed off and fed to the carnivores.
In the cafe, today's special? venison burger. brilliant, go to the zoo and eat the exhibits.

Has any of turned up in any value burgers yet?