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And buying from your local shop helps how? Do you think that paying 20% more for a jar of Dolmio sauce and some bog paper will somehow save our planet?
It won't, that's a fatuous suggestion, however, it's our attitude to consumption that the Supermarkets pander too that is most definately hurting.
On top of that we seem intent to have as little to do with each other as possible, everything is so impersonal, it might be more convenient but I'm convinced it's having a detrimental impact on our society.
I don't really blame Tesco, although some of the practices leave a lot to be desired, it's us wanting so much but not willing to pay for it in terms of time or money.
it's our attitude to consumption that the Supermarkets pander too that is most definately hurting.
But surely any retailer will want consumers to spend more to make them more profits? There are few shop owners who want us to spend less and save the planet through less waste. It is just that Tesco et al have the infrastructure in place to create spaces designed to sell. Most retailers would do exactly the same so they could make the extra profit if they knew how.
I'm convinced it's having a detrimental impact on our society.
This I do agree with - I do still remember vividly my childhood, going to the local shops with my mum to do the weekly shop, having it all boxed up and then delivered to us later in the day. But unless the smaller shopkeepers can compete financially, the vast majority (me included) will vote with their wallets and go to the supermarkets.
I know that Lampeter said no to Tesco's. Just wish there was an Asda nearer to Carmarthen.
I wish people would stop using cheapness as an excuse for shopping at supermarkets.
What happens in real life is that supermarkets win because they create a convincing illusion of good value. Certain key products are kept cheap as "loss leaders", and you can pick up cheap stuff you don't need, like alcohol or £5 jeans. You can also get a "bargain" if you buy way too much of something, e.g. buy one get one free on fruit that then gets thrown away in a few days.
The real factor that keeps people coming back is laziness - not having to walk around different shops, not having to deal with small fiddly amounts of change, and knowing that you can buy the same things week in, week out, regardless of problems that might affect smaller businesses or what time of year it is.
Supermarkets aren't evil, but they certainly aren't your mates. Bribing you with miserable 1% discount "loyalty" cards, vouchers that might get your kid's school a tennis ball if you spend £500 there, or participating in tedious national charity events doesn't make them any more ethically sound. They will still shaft their suppliers, build 500 car parking places to every 5 bike racks and wastefully package their goods while paying lip service to environmental concerns.
They're even trying to phase out their human staff in my local ones, and to be honest it rankles to spend 15 minutes of your life queueing, scanning your own shopping in, having to get the staff to override it because you want to buy some of their discount booze or it won't let you use your own shopping bags, and finally be told "Thank you for using the fast lane..." 🙄
I wish people would stop using cheapness as an excuse for shopping at supermarkets.
Why should we? It is the reason I shop at them. That and convenience.
Anyone else watch the series on where our cheap food comes from?
There is another thread on this forum about our troops in Afghanistan and the rise of Islamic extremism.
We have too much, others have too little. Unavoidable result = Conflict
Because we have too much and thus have too much to lose to willingly risk our lives, they ultimately will win. Basic rise and fall of Empire stuff. Pretty much inevitable due to the inherent selfishness of the human condition.
For some stuff, e.g. bread, they are cheap. But some things are more expensive (eggs are consistently about 50p less in my local greengrocer's, unless you buy battery eggs that look like they've been laid by a wren). When you factor in random impulse buys and having limited choice over the quantities that you purchase, it's a lot closer.
Re- strawberries, I tried to google the varieties grown in the U.K. couldn't find out, however our fruit shop sells 3 differnet varieties, they don't all look the same shape and size and they smell like strawberries. Most supermarkets apart from M&S sell El-santa which travel well. SO taste rubbish but will keep fresh in you fridge for longer.
Whoops gone on a bit too long there 🙂
Assuming they don't actually level every small convienience store, butcher, baker etc within say, a 5 mile radius (and I'm pretty sure they don't) it now becomes up to those indignant people who said "no" to now resist the temptation of lower prices, and continue supporting those small businesses that they were so keen on in the first place.No one is gonna twist your arm to go to tesco, and there will always be small shops that survive initially, so how many of those "no" people would honsetly have the moral integrity to stick to their principals and support the small business's, against saving themselves money?
Exactly. The arrival of Tesco doesn't instantly shut down local businesses, it's the local people choosing to shop there that does that. Nobody's forcing the poeple of Mach to use Tesco and if they're so set against it I'm sure they'll vote with their wallets and continue to use the independents... won't they?
Supermarkets have done one thing; freed women from having to drag around 4-5-6-7 shops to buy things on a saturday while the auld fella sits in the bookies/pub/social club.
Or goes out on his bike.
I haven't read everything here, but from an employment point of view - ie jobs lost, does one tesco employ less staff than multiple one man band shops?
I haven't read everything here, but from an employment point of view - ie jobs lost, does one tesco employ less staff than multiple one man band shops?
i seem to recall reading somewhere that yeah this is true.
certainly in the case of that massive tesco in stockport that's actually 20% bigger than they had planning permission for, and when challenged one of the things tesco said was that if they were forced to resize then people would "lose jobs"; tescopoly looked into the net effect of the tesco store's existence on the local jobs market and i believe they determined that there was a negative overall balance. however, this is somewhat hypothetical and some would say an expected finding given who did the 'research'.
I haven't read everything here, but from an employment point of view - ie jobs lost, does one tesco employ less staff than multiple one man band shops?
well yes, it's all in the link I posted...
But the superstores’ own research shows that every large outlet causes the net loss of 276 jobs(8). That’s hardly surprising: independent shops employ five times as many people per unit of turnover (9).
The big problem seems to be that Tesco will keep reapplying and appealing when a council turns them down. Councils say that they cannot afford the legal costs.
I'd like a council to put their money on the table and threaten Tesco. Keep turning down the appeals and if the council runs out of money then Westminster or Cardiff would HAVE to step in to stop the bullying tactics.
We can't have one company hold our democratic processes to ransom.
Mfannylion
but I also enjoy cooking from scratch. But, for me anyway, first and foremost I try to save money when I buy from these places. For example, if Lloyd Grossman sauces are on half price I will buy them. If Sharwoods are on, I will buy those instead.
Cooking from scratch does not mean you opened all the jars and packets yourself.
I'm a big Tesco fan, from a customer's point of view they are fantastic. Good range, good prices, beats all the other supermarkets and much quicker than going round all the local shops to buy stuff in dribs and drabs.
Really looking forward to their 14th store in Cambridge, just round the corner from me and hoping it puts our local useless Coop store out of business (useless staff, obscene prices, crap opening hours and out of stock of most things).
My-ex GF moved to just outside Mach 5 years ago and she, like a lot of local residents, has been praying for a Tesco and an M&S for years. The one general complaint is lack of decent local shops in Aber and the surrounding region. Only tourists (and George) can afford the prices in all the local eco-friendly 100% organic shops.
GM is only representing one faction of the local community.
she, like a lot of local residents, has been praying for a Tesco and an M&S for years
Really when [ok if] I pray I ask for world peace and an end to poverty.
I feel so silly now 😳
" when I pray I ask for world peace and an end to poverty "
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Junkyard
I've only skim read this whole thread but this quote stood out:
I would rather consider the eventual effect on my wallet.
I believe it is impossible to put a price on the damage Tesco does to communities. I wouldn't describe myself as an especially 'green' or holier-than-thou sort of person yet the overriding feeling I have after a few years of working around the world is that the death of local communities in Britain will be bitterly regretted for decades to come. I regard Tesco and everything the business stands for as the major part of the problem. It is the only British company I boycott.
If you want to fight the Tescos of this world, you need to change the political landscape.
1. No financial contributions to political parties except from registered voters in the respective electorate. This may stop our politicians being bought by large corporations, although I'm sure they would find a way 🙂
3. No one allowed to represent an electorate unless they have lived in it for a few years.
2. A requirement that legal battles be between equals. ie Tesco not be allowed to spend more on its case than the council.
Yup, I shop at Tesco.
This thread puzzles me. On the one hand you moan about all the 'tripe' that Tescos et al. shovel about improving choice, lowering prices etc, yet on the other hand, most of the same people on here are happily following the myths about food miles and 'organic' food.
Have a read of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_miles
And more specifically this paper: [i]Edwards-Jones, G., Milà i Canals, L., Hounsome, N., Truninger, M., Koerber, G., Hounsome, B., et al. (2008). Testing the assertion that ‘local food is best’: the challenges of an evidence-based approach. Trends in Food Science & Technology, 19(5), 265-274.[/i] (I don't seem to be able to find a free online version of it, sadly, but will happily email you one from work tomorrow if you're interested enough)
Anyway, aside from policies and politics, I'm rarely out of work before 8 pm, leaving me with two shops within a logical distance between work and home in which to buy food - Londis in Bethesda (which only has the basics), and you guessed it, Tesco in Bangor. I'd love to shop at the local butchers, greengrocers etc, but they're not open when I can shop, so I don't. I suspect the convenience of Tescos being open at more useful times than traditional shops suits most of us who work and don't want to spend their Saturdays fighting their way through the high street. Perhaps if the highstreet opened later and closed later, more customers would be able to shop at their local stores. As it stands however, most are probably at work when the local shops are open, leaving only the supermarkets by the time they finish work.
It really isn't rocket science (or any science for that matter), simply common sense...
Really simple case of supply and demand
Tescos is a clever company, they know where the demand is and the supply will follow. If your community is really that opposed to it, they will will continue to support local shops. In reality, most of the outspoken petition signing nimby's will soon be shopping in Tescos becasuse it is cheaper, quicker and better than tramping around local shops.
Its just the way shopping and the high streets are changing. And we, the consumers are demanding it.
Tescos is a clever company
They are flipping geniuses. They're open at times when I can go shopping, unlike the greengrocers, butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers who all shut at 5. Just need the bank and post office to get their act together now!
It's a marvelous legacy of Thatcher (sorry) that so many people seem to think allowing naked market forces to run wild is some kind of beautiful natural thing to be welcomed whatever the cost. The fact that Tesco can bully and threaten their way to such a huge market share isn't a good thing for anyone except their shareholders.
Will you all still be happy if there were no shops left except Tesco? 'But it's so convenient and cheap'
Cooking from scratch does not mean you opened all the jars and packets yourself.
No really, does it not? Excuse me.
Perhaps I was not clear enough in my post but I like to cook from scratch, using fresh ingredients and from my wide range of spices (I have approx 50 Indian and Thai spices). I generally do not cook from recipes either, just create what I feel will be nice dishes.
But when time does not allow, I use jars.
shopping in Tescos becasuse it is cheaper, quicker and better than tramping around local shops
Sorry, but I really don't relate any of those comments to [b][i]The shop formerly owned by Dame Shirley Porter[/i][/b]
The general public are a funny bunch. There will be concern expressed about local food/shops/organics/food miles/sustainability etc, but they'll mourn the loss of a chain like Woolworths!Most people don't genuinely care about the health of their high street, or they only care once it has all but gone. TBF, given the state of the economy it is unsurprising people shop where it is cheap and convenient.
Same as Scuttler, I'm in Holmfirth and don't want to see a Tesco built. I think that a lot of the local small shops stay in business because at the minute people can park in the town centre and there is one of most kind of shops within an easy walk. I suspect that a lot of people do "top up" shopping when going to the bank or hairdressers, but also as the carpark is at an existing (not very big and poorly stocked) coop, you can do whatever shopping you want in there and then pop to the greengrocers for your better priced and higher quality veggies. (Or the butchers, hardware shop etc).
Some of the small shops also supply the local eateries (meaning that they have a comparatively high turn over of stock, and the more random herbs or whatever that they may otherwise not stock) and this is where I think a Tesco is a bad thing.
As people start to use the Tesco rather than the Morrisons or Sainsburys some miles away, the top up shopping in the town will dwindle as people cannot just walk from there car, they now have to add a another leg to the trip - not much, but enough to put folk off. The little shops see trade dropping and it might be enough to force a couple into shutting up (I haven't seen their books, so this is speculation). I would assume that the coop couldn't survive and will close, leaving a large abandoned site in the middle of the town, which already has an oversupply of retail units. So a few less shops, an empty site in the middle of the town and suddenly Holmfirth is a much less nice place to be, not just for us residents, but crucially to all the visitors we get (Last of the summer wine and all). These visitors must pump a large amount of money into the local economy, making many of the pubs,restaurants, bakers and sandwich shops viable. Without this money some of them are bound to close, leaving more empty shops and pretty soon I'll be living in a ghost town and nobody wants to spend their saturday visiting one of them do they?. At the minute I have a choice of places to go on a saturday night to eat and drink, but I just can't see that this will continue to be the case.
I live where I do because my local town is still a small market town with a buzz and some life to it, a Tesco's (or any other supermarket built on the same site) will inevitably drain that out of the town and whoops, where did our community go?
No thanks.
For the record, I shop at sainsburys 7 miles away and when I get the chance (my working and their openening hours dependent) use greengrocers, bakers and butchers either near home or where i work.
We grow a lot of our own fruit & veg & keep chickens too, we use a local butcher that delivers for meat - other than that, pretty much everything else comes from a big supermarket [usually Asda]
Try nipping around local shops when you're shopping for 7
You usually can't get parked anywhere near them & the logistics of hauling that amount of stuff from various shops back home is too onerous
Long may the supermarkets reign - if nothing else, they certainly allow people to have a much more varied diet if they want or 2p sausages if they like eating crap [their choice]
Within 5 miles of where I live I can buy food from local stores which specialise in 4 or 5 different continents' food types. All without going to [i]The shop formerly owned by Dame Shirley Porter[/i].
But then I don't live an idyllic rural lifestyle - but if I did I'd probably start expecting weekly Red Cross parcels to be airdropped.
Is there such a thing as a 'supermarket only' town that everone in this thread seems so worried about? i dont live out in the sticks but most towns (with a supermarket) that ive been to still have butchers, bakers, corner shops etc. Its not like its a one way thing where youll end up with only a supermarket, other shops will still be around, sure the poorly run ones who blindly plod along will prob go but youll still have choice.
But unless the smaller shopkeepers can compete financially, the vast majority (me included) will vote with their wallets and go to the supermarkets.
Depends on what you value as important. People value local services and will pay a fair price to keep them. It's a community thing. The rest however are like you.
What local shops need to do is going the french way: open at 8:30 in the morning, stop at 12 and reopen at 2:30 to close at 7pm. So you can go shopping when you go back from work. But yes, where are you going to buy your sandwich at lunch time then? I guess Tesco wil still be open.
People value local services and will pay a fair price to keep them
In the main they won't IMO
How many small indie filling stations survive on locals valuing their [more] personal service over the cost of a litre of unleaded?
Most people with families can't afford to use the small shops for the majority of their shopping - have you tried kitting a couple of youngsters out for going back to school via the local clothes shop? - there's no point buying good quality clothes/shoes, they'll have ruined/grown out of it in 3 months anyway
Well we don't have a choice for clothes, there is nowhere (other than charity shops) that sell them in the nearest town, which is most definately suffering from shoppers going to the two Tesco's within 8 miles.
In the main they won't IMO
No, because they value convenience and immediate price over the possibility that their local community is suffering.
It's really sad.
But yes, where are you going to buy your sandwich at lunch time then?
make them the night before for a quarter of the price then use the change to make up the difference when you go an support your local community, if it really is anymore expensive anyway.
No, because they value convenience and immediate price over the possibility that their local community is suffering.It's really sad.
This is the sort of statement I really don't get. Why on earth should anyone buy locally for those reasons? Fair enough if you want to buy specialist foods or really appreciate quality over price. But to spend more on stuff just because some bloke in his corner shop might suffer otherwise is mind-boggling. (In my opinion). The example regarding petrol and local fuel stations sums it up perfectly.
I don't understand why the importance of a flourishing local community is difficult to grasp.
Towns with a good mix of independent stores, that sell a wide range of products, where people mix, chat and feel part of a community, where they know the shop owners and the other shoppers are dwindling (we even built a few, Telford and Milton Keynes for example), the vacant shops look crap, the remaining ones struggle to survive, the town becomes run down and dilapidated, people start to lose a sense of pride and stop caring about the place they live in.
People demanding convienience and the cheapest price on everything are what is driving the incredible expansion of out of town superstores, starving towns of their vital commerce.
When I found out Sainsburys were opening a store in my village I was dismayed, as it has a flourishing market and several butchers bakers etc. I had a chat with one of the butchers a couple of weeks later. He thought it was great - no need to drive 8 miles to the nearest affordable supermarket! I didn't know what to think then. Turns out nearly all the local shop owners and staff do their shopping at Sainsburys!
m-f, what you describe is exactly how I feel. I like the people in my deli, for example. I want their business to survive, so I'll spend in there even if it's more costly than Tesco. Their shop helps to make the street look nice, bonus IMO. And whilst Tesco profits dissappear into some random offshore fund, some part of the profit from the deli is reinvested in my community.
Also, how is Tesco convenient for me? It's 5 miles away, whereas I can walk for everything I need here. Can't get fish unless I get up early on a thursday though, or go into Salisbury on Saturday morning.
I don't understand why the importance of a flourishing local community is difficult to grasp.
Conversely, why is convenience (for the majority), choice and good value difficult to grasp?
And whilst Tesco profits dissappear into some random offshore fund, some part of the profit from the deli is reinvested in my community.
How is this then? Your local shops are buying the same mass-produced* stuff the supermarkets sell. Yes your shopkeeper gets to 'invest' in the locality, but in the same way, the staff of the supermarkets do.
*I appreciate that some things are specialist and not available in supermarkets and those are the sort of shops I like to visit and they are the sort that have more chance of surviving the onslaught of the supermarkets as they are not trying to compete, they have diversified and found a USP.
to spend more on stuff just because some bloke in his corner shop might suffer otherwise
You're paying £2 a pop for a small jar of adulterated tomato puree, and you're worried about value for money? 😛
You're paying £2 a pop for a small jar of adulterated tomato puree, and you're worried about value for money?
Do I?
Is that not what Lloyd Grossman sauce is? I bought some a while back for a 24 hour race, can't remember how much it was, but it was ming.
Is that not what Lloyd Grossman sauce is?
Yes it is, but I buy sauces on special offer - I rarely buy them when they are full price. And anyway, how much would that jar of sauce cost in your local deli? To compare prices, you have to compare like-for-like. Fair enough, some people have the time to prepare meals from scratch every night. I like to do so myself, but when I do not have time, I am happy to bung a jar of sauce over some chicken.
*I appreciate that some things are specialist and not available in supermarkets and those are the sort of shops I like to visit
Would that be shops for 'discerning gentlemen' 😉
People demanding convienience and the cheapest price on everything are what is driving the incredible expansion of out of town superstores, starving towns of their vital commerce.
If that's what people want why shouldn't they have it? - have you tried telling them they're all wrong & you're right?
If a supermarket isn't wanted by the locals, they won't use it & it'll close PDQ, the fact that most stay open pretty much points to the locals wanting them.