[Closed] Terrorist Attack 200 meters from our home in Paris

Yeah. Our home in Paris is just up the street (admittedly longish, but still) from the Bataclan. This shit is real 🙁

So much for all the posters here who talk about how unlikely any one is to be impacted.

We are in the UK and fine.

I'll just leave this here.

Even the French Police are not calling it a terrorist attack atm.

Rachel

allthegear - Member
Even the French Police are not calling it a terrorist attack atm.

Rachel

i don't actually know if an attack on army forces should be called a terrorist attack tbh.

i'd imagine, in a war, the forces are legitimate targets.

Not condoning anything, just making the point.

So much for all the posters here who talk about how unlikely any one is to be impacted.

Still true, a (possible) attack 200m from a home you're not currently occupying doesn't change that.

LeVallois is a quite family orientated neighbourhood outside of central Paris

It's a quiet family orientated neighbourhood with a military barracks.

So much for all the posters here who talk about how unlikely any one is to be impacted.

Someone wins the lottery every week - it doesn't mean that winning the lottery is likely to happen to you. 🙄

Jamby, as you say, thoughts go out to anyone affected by this. and I'm sure it brings it home for you as it is so close to your home.

But your thread title of "terrorist" attack is jumping the gun a little and there's no need for point scoring by referring to previous threads or statements, you could have left it at the statement of grief for those affected as that was the message you were trying to put across.

Again, my thoughts go out to anyone affected by this.

Counter-terror prosecutors have opened the investigation, the mayor has stated it was a deliberate attack, the location is home to the main French intelligence agencies and those attached were anti-terrorists soldiers. I don't think anyone is jumping the gun really and much of the press are reporting it as such.

It's 100% a terrorist attack, obvious from the first moment. Whether it's soldiers who wjere the target or not makes no difference. As above the main Interior Ministry is in the town (although a mile away) and terrorist suspects nationally are brought there upon arrest.

Johnners the soldiers have been billited in an indoor golf driving range underneath a social housing block next to the park. The army has been spread throughout Paris since 2015 being billited locally, general patrols and in particular guarding Jewish schools and the Synagogues of which there are a number in Levallois. The (lovely) park is popular with the whole community.

Suspect has been arrested on the A16 (goes towards Calais/Belgium from that side of Paris). Levallois has many CCTV cameras (most in a French town I believe) so police would have had good intelligence

i don't actually know if an attack on army forces should be called a terrorist attack tbh.

Someone wins the lottery every week - it doesn't mean that winning the lottery is likely to happen to you.

This...

So much for all the posters here who talk about how unlikely any one is to be impacted.

Jambastats?

I think its highly probable you haven't grasped the concept of statistics.

5thElefant - Member
Unless you think we are at war with Islam terrorism seems appropriate. If not, carry on. Doesn't make any practical difference.

I don't believe we are at war with islam, though neither do I think I'm included in the we here, I'm not french, nor in the french military, and I've no idea of the motives of these people.

I still don't think military personel can be victims of a "terrorist" attack though. Would could get into semantics about off or on duty, armed/unarmed and definitions of terrorism. But show me the army that asks to see clock in cards before attacking anything?

But if we do that, it's a can of worms, and the word terrorism should be applied much wider(which I think it should anyway). IMO the definition should be to keep it to attacks on illegitimate civilian targets, for me military forces are a legitimate target.

As for it not making a difference, it does to the propaganda goodies/baddies narrative. ie it's terrorism if they do it, not if we do. Which is utter nonsense.

Whether it's soldiers who were the target or not makes no difference

That's just an that opinion suits your agenda.

for me military forces are a legitimate target.

were always at war somewhere

War on terror?

From the Oxford dictonary:

Terrorism:
The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

5thElefant - Member
for me military forces are a legitimate target.

Only if you're at war.

Well if this mob are affiliated to ISIS, then they are at war.

Motives still to be determined though. I'm not making any real comment on this specific attack btw, just the use of the word terrorist. I don't think there's enough information to support conclusions.

I think the key thing for something to be terrorism is that it's not going to directly achieve your political aims, but you believe that fear of further attacks may indirectly achieve your aims.

So if this latest attack was targeted at specific members of the French armed forces because the attacker believed harming those people would directly advance his aims then it wasn't terrorism.

If he was just attacking random members of the armed forces to try and create panic and fear then I reckon that's terrorism.

You need to get tooled up Jammers

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NewRetroTom - Member
If he was just attacking random members of the armed forces to try and create panic and fear then I reckon that's terrorism.

If that's the case then many actions within the context of a war are terrorism. Hell the entire world war 2 carpet bombing campaigns are terrorism then, from both sides. A view I actually agree with tbh as it's fairly obvious terrorism, within the context of a war, is a widely used tactic.

Maybe there should be 2 definitions or terrorism? War time terrorism and civilian terrorism?

Guessing my main point is, that regardless of the definition, it should be applied universally, but it isn't. So, it's a propaganda tool.

How about good terrorism or bad terrorism?

May as well go the whole hog, goodie and baddie terrorism, i like it! 😆

I think thats definitely the way forward 😆

If I recall correctly, in the UK since the lottery started there have been more lottery winners than terrorist victims. By some margin.

And RTA deaths ain't good too.

It's not a good thing and for the victims it's horrible, but to be honest it's still pretty rare. Best thing to do is not to let it affect you too much - because if you do they're winning.

While it's fair game to engage robustly with jamba on a politics thread, I'm not sure it's necessary on this one. I'm sure I'd be equally taken aback by something so close to home, and I'd also almost certainly come to the same immediate conclusion/assumption.

While it's fair game to engage robustly with jamba on a politics thread, I'm not sure it's necessary on this one

He seemed genuine initially but then immediately descended into point scoring, I suspect to deliberately provoke such a response

So much for all the posters here who talk about how unlikely any one is to be impacted

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How about good terrorism or bad terrorism?

nonsense..

So you agree you are indulging in cheap point scoring @seaso ? My point is that this specific terrorism threat is now all around us and almost a monthly occurrence in France this year. I walk with my baby daughter every day in that park when we are in Paris.

A good friend was very very lucky not to have been in Hyper Kacher the day it was attacked, she had a last min change of plans and deferred her shopping trip.

It was terrorism when the IRA where killing British soldiers including blowing them up in the pub in Guildford along with non-military people.

Yes obviously that is terrorism ffs!

But is Israel killing Palistinian children terrorism?

Are US drone striked killing innocent people terrorism?

Saudi in Yemen etc

If not why not?

Jamba btw you have my sympathies, must be not nice trying to go about daily life with such things happening locally.

Jamba - I am not points scoring - definitely not. It's not appropriate. And my wife was meant to be shopping in Manchester the day they blew up the Arndale so I have some idea about how it can feel when it's close to home (her plans changed but I was in the States and couldn't contact her for 24-36 hours).
But we need to get perspective on it. You are more likely to win the lottery than be killed by a terrorist (on the basis that I don't know if you play the lottery or not, far more likely if you actually do play) and more likely to be killed in a car accident.
Don't let them affect your life - if you do then they have changed you and they are winning. Terrorism is all about messing with people's minds - the violence while really nasty is just a tool to do that. Don't make their tool more effective.
Live your life.

jambalaya - Member
So you agree you are indulging in cheap point scoring @seaso ? My point is that this specific terrorism threat is now all around us and almost a monthly occurrence in France this year. I walk with my baby daughter every day in that park when we are in Paris.

A good friend was very very lucky not to have been in Hyper Kacher the day it was attacked, she had a last min change of plans and deferred her shopping trip.

It was terrorism when the IRA where killing British soldiers including blowing them up in the pub in Guildford along with non-military people.

Nope, I'm not, just putting forward a point of view as the usage of the word terrorism annoys me as it's completely one sided.

As for your fears....A guy I knew was killed in a diving accident off the coast of Barra just last week, should I now fear boats or diving? Another mate was killed in his work place 8 years ago, should I fear my workplace? Another mate was killed after slipping in his bath tub 5 years ago, should I fear bathtubs? That's the logic you're putting forward here.

Nonsense is some people wanting to feed your paranoia and offer you sympathy for something you weren't involved in or anywhere near.

As for Ireland, it's a point of view, IRA killing was classed terrorism, rightly so, but was bloody Sunday also classed as terrorism? I don't imagine you'd recognise it as such, the British state certainly didn't, where the terrorist convictions for it?, I do though.

My ultimate point is be consistent if you are going to brand the word about.

I also do think there really should be a distinction between terrorism that involves combatants and terrorism that involves civilians. One is a war tactic that everyone uses, regardless of the legality. The other is taking it a step too far, but also ends up getting used by all sides, collateral damage is a synonym for terrorism incase you never noticed.

So, no, not point scoring, just putting forward an honest opinion, take it on board if you choose, or don't... I doubt you will. Ultimately, war is terrorism, imo.

Jambs your 2nd paragraph was you telling people they were wrong.

First volley from you then...

Still must be harrowing, but giving in to fear is letting the bad guys win.

Just catching up. Kimbers I worked in London in the "ring of steel" all through the IRA bombing campaign. Made numerous trips to Middle East at times of high security. I never gave in but I did modify my behaviour, eg avoiding large gatherings at stations especially post Jihadist threat.

Well then you DID give in.

No, not modifying your behaviour is stupid imo

Have you not done exactly what they want?

Nope, I'm not, just putting forward a point of view as the usage of the word terrorism annoys me as it's completely one sided.

As you say, it is completely unhelpful as a description, but a useful indicator of the sympathies of the writer.

@pondo would you lock your bike or keep valuables out of sight in the car ? I don't avoid going to Saudi on business, working in central London or going to big sporting events but I do take what I think are sensible precautions.

What on earth are sensible precautions to take in central London?

..a topped up Oyster card.

.. taking your own cans?

Jamba - you called it right.
I agree with your comments about taking sensible precautions and modifying behaviour - where appropriate.
Pleased that you & family were away when the incident occurred.
Some of your posts on other threads have attracted some attention and have set you up as a bit of an 'aunt sally' - I was going to write 'target' but that would have been appropriate.

What on earth are sensible precautions to take in central London?