Not sure what rules they are breaking - could you enlighten me?
What rules did [i]I[/i] break?
I informed the school (in writing to the head and informally to the teachers) and I received their consent back.
What is it that upsets you all so much about that? The feeling that I "cheated"?
you choose to disrupt your kid's education and their school just so you could do something you wanted - me me me
Correct I did. (Well it was "us us us" rather than "me me me").
It was a considered decision that we made as a family and wasn't made lightly.
You get free education but that requires you to take responsibility..
And I do take full responsibility for making that decision.
My class mates and I were all allowed to be taken out of school in the 80s and 90s and the consequences have been dire, none of us managed to gain a good education, go to university, or find well paid jobs that contribute to society...oh wait....
You did however grow up completely unable to make a reasoned sensible argument out of logical points, by the look of it 🙂
To help you out a bit - anecdotes aren't data.
The basis is that "not having children" was used as excuse to continue a vastly more materialistic life.
Who said anything about materialism?
I've given up plenty of experiences I could have had for the sake of my family - including my wife. I'm not complaining, just pointing out that it isn't always about material possessions.
You make a choice to have a child (or marry a teacher in my case) then you know that you're stuck on more expensive holidays, that's just how it works. If you want cheaper holidays, don't have kids or don't marry a teacher. Simple.
And as ever, the rules have to work for the lowest common denominator, I'm sure the people of STW would never hurt their child's education for a cheaper holiday, but others may do and you can't have rules that only apply to one type of person I'm afraid.
you can't have rules that only apply to one type of person I'm afraid.
You can if we allow teachers to continue to use their judgement and discretion instead of making blanket rules.
you choose to disrupt your kid's education and their school just so you could do something you wanted - me me meCorrect I did. (Well it was "us us us" rather than "me me me").
It was a considered decision that we made as a family and wasn't made lightly.
If Grahem popped up here and said "hey, but taking my kid out of school I said some money to buy a new bike" I'd understand this attitude. But likely he did it at least to be able to take the kids and his wife someone nice, and perhaps used the saved money for thier clothes, electricity, food etc outside the holiday aka thier benefit.
I don't for one minute believe Graham saved to cash to piss it up the wall at his kids expense.
you can't have rules that only apply to one type of person I'm afraid.
If the rule is 'at head teacher's discretion' then it can easily apply to everyone.
It's not a secret that some kids catch on much faster than others. So some kids could handle the absence, some woudn't. Also, some parents are conscientious enough to make their kids do school work on holiday, some aren't - also not a secret.
You make a choice to have a child (or marry a teacher in my case) then you know that you're stuck on more expensive holidays, that's just how it works. If you want cheaper holidays, don't have kids or don't marry a teacher. Simple.
28 years ago those rules didn't exist or 15 years ago.
but others may do and you can't have rules that only apply to one type of person I'm afraid.
Probably very few so a majority now get punished for a minority.
The school breaks up for summer holidays on a Monday this year. A bloody Monday. What pratt made that decision ?'
They'll be making a few quid in fines this year
If the rule is 'at head teacher's discretion' then it can easily apply to everyone.It's not a secret that some kids catch on much faster than others. So some kids could handle the absence, some wouldn't. Also, some parents are conscientious enough to make their kids do school work on holiday, some aren't - also not a secret.
All correct but you have to be seen as fairer than fair and "discretion" could by some be interpreted as "inconsistent". Most people would help their kids catch up, but some, no matter what they say, won't. It is much, much easier, and some would say fairer, to do as is being done and put a blanket ban on it,
It is much, much easier, and some would say fairer, to do as is being done and put a blanket ban on it,
You should have stopped at easier.
You could just as easily rent a lovely cottage in the U.K. for the cost of one of your family to go on the skiing trip. And then you could have precious family time together AND save even more money AND your kids will have 100% of their very precious education.
yeah, i bet most kids would love that. 'sorry kids, no snow time for you, we're going to a cottage with granddad, maybe fit in some hill walking' 😉
You did however grow up completely unable to make a reasoned sensible argument out of logical points, by the look of itTo help you out a bit - anecdotes aren't data.
Nope just didn't read the rest of the thread and stated my opinion. Did you take it from my not so serious post that I was trying to make a serious arguement out of logical points..?
No need to help me out though. First class honours degree from St Andrews and all that, probably indicates I can do that by myself. And definitely no need for help from intranet know it alls who couldn't take a few weeks off in primary school as they weren't bright enough to catch up afterwards
thanks for the offer though
...
😉
It's like you are saying to yourself "Oh, he went on a nice holiday when we didn't. But he's cheating! He can't really afford that. Not properly. He should stop cheating and be miserable like us"
I'm going to USA for 3 weeks this summer so am not at all jealous of your ski trip...lack the knees and hips for it these days anyway but taking kids out of school to spend a week skiing would be beyond what I would consider acceptable with junior. I have zero sympathy for your position.
Drac on the other hand if he really cant get any time off as a family can have the pleasure of my sympathy...I'm sure he will be thrilled!!
I cant help but think we are coming at this from the wrong angle if employers cannot help out a little here..maybe not every year but at least every other or something what have we created? An unequal, zero hours, overworked labour force that must go on till it drops...sad indictment of our country.
taking kids out of school to spend a week skiing would be beyond what I would consider acceptable with junior.
Out of interest how old is your junior? My eldest daughter is only 6, which obviously influenced my decision. If she was in the middle of studying for exams it'd be a different story.
Mine is six too, although I am a teacher so I expect my views are coloured by experience and I cant take holidays outside term time anyway!!
But hey its only my opinion!!
I had a kid taken on holiday for 2 weeks 3 weeks before his gcse's...the parent was mighty pissed off with the school as he didnt do well enough to do the a levels he wanted...that sort of shit is child abuse imo.
I guess I wouldnt take junior out, if I could as I want to demonstrate to him how important education is.
Thanks AA actually as you're a teacher it means something as it has when my kids' teachers express their sympathy and frustration over the system.
As I said earlier as a manager I try to accommodate staff if I can but it's just not always possible. I do run the rotation thing or did as it's changed, to allow staff to get a chance. The issue still results in whether it fits with it my case my wife as it does with other a staff and their partners. So you end betting 2 employers trying to be accommodating instead of one school.
I've had the a holiday the last 4 years with my kids but the wife has had to work so stayed at home. My kids broke up today I'm on 2 weeks off well I am until 7 tonight when I'm back at work. My wife is off the second week of the holidays and I'm working. 😆
yeah, i bet most kids would love that. 'sorry kids, no snow time for you, we're going to a cottage with granddad, maybe fit in some hill walking'
Sounds far nicer than freezing your bits off and potentially breaking some bones up a mountain.
It's also missing the point - why should you pander to what the kids want, unless you want to raise a bunch of spoilt brats. But then those self-same spoilt brats won't give a toss about the rules when they're parents, and so the cycle continues.
I think a lot of people on this thread aren't thinking it through.
Yes, I agree (and I'm a teacher) that taking your 7 or 8 year old out for a couple of days at the end of term will have minimal impact on their education. But if it becomes the norm, and you/they expect it, then you'll be taking them out for cheap holidays all the way through.
Now, I teach a couple of lads whose families have a tradition of taking 2 weeks off in November to go to Majorca, have done every year apparently.
Years 10 & 11 were no different. Due to this they both missed GCSE mock exams, and I was told in no uncertain terms by their parents that 'No, they won't be doing any work on holiday, as they need to be able to relax as they'll be doing exams soon.' The irony appeared to be lost in them.
Both came back to school and spent the last 2 weeks of the Autumn term not in any way wanting to engage in lessons (same across all subjects too) as I suspect they'd both been getting royally pissed for the previous 2 weeks, and coming back to a load of teachers wanting them to catch up was way down on their list of priorities.
Then they went on 2 weeks Xmas hols, and to be honest neither has really bothered to pull their fingers out since.
The fault of the term-time holiday? Probably not.
The fault of their parents not really caring about their education, and making it clear that saving a bit of money and having short term enjoyment is more important than long term success? **** yes.
yeah, i bet most kids would love that. 'sorry kids, no snow time for you, we're going to a cottage with granddad, maybe fit in some hill walking'
My 2 love that.
They've never been skiing but would love it sadly we can't afford it outside of term time either.
AA: yep totally agree on the GCSE thing. That's pretty idiotic and presumably the kind of behaviour a blanket ban aims to stop (not that any headteacher' would have approved that one anyway).
Drac: joys of the NHS eh? Mrs (Dr) is working over Easter too, including the bank holidays, so I end up using up all my holidays to care for the kids. So by the time we get the chance to have a holiday together I have to take it as unpaid parental leave which only adds to the cost of going away.
Sounds far nicer than freezing your bits off and potentially breaking some bones up a mountain.
I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience of Spring skiing in France? Sunburn is usually far more of an issue than bits freezing off. 😀
I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience of Spring skiing in France? Sunburn is usually far more of an issue than bits freezing off.
More than you'd think actually, as my parents live in the Pyrennees. However, I'm not a fan of skiing. IMO an overpriced waste of time. Much rather be cycling!
February isn't spring
I really hope all those who are so keen on others not breaking rules don't ride their mountain bikes on footpaths...
I really hope all those who are so keen on others not breaking rules don't ride their mountain bikes on footpaths...
Riding on a footpath is a civil matter, whereas taking kids out of school in term-time is a criminal matter. Do keep up!
I lost this on page 3 .. but I did read .. "what happens if the pregnancy is unplanned?" well you still CHOOSE to have the child!! And the come back will be not if I'm the bloke .. well you should have used a flipping condom!!!
yeah, i bet most kids would love that. 'sorry kids, no snow time for you, we're going to a cottage with granddad, maybe fit in some hill walking'
My kids absolutely love spending time with their grandparents.
Ironically the reason there were five people on my skiing holiday was that the fifth person as their grandma, who doesn't ski but they love spending time with 😀
I suspect what was meant by Munge-chick's comment was to those who were suggesting that if an pregnancy was unplanned then that was an excuse to do whatever you like.
The fact remains however that in the UK there are several choices available in the event of an unplanned pregnancy. Whether you personally would want to take them up on is besides the point and wishing someone gets aids is bang out of order.
I've encountered that attitude from childless couples before they're doing the world a favour by their sacrifice, in that case don't expect in future, the children of others to become care workers in adulthood to deal with their senile infirmity. Don't expect them kids to pay tax in to a pension pot.
I've encountered that attitude from childless couples before they're doing the world a favour by their sacrifice, in that case don't expect in future, the children of others to become care workers in adulthood to deal with their senile infirmity. Don't expect them kids to pay tax in to a pension pot.
And equally I've encountered the entitled attitudes from some parents who think that that should be an excuse to allow them to do whatever they want. Never once have I wished they got aids.
Did they suggest you kill your unborn child?
I lost this on page 3 .. but I did read .. "what happens if the pregnancy is unplanned?"
Should've read on a few more posts!
That's bang out of order. Let me clear something up for you regarding the abortion debate:
The question isn't whether or not it's ok to kill kids, it's whether or not a 10 week old foetus is actually a kid.
Mol that discussion was on the table at the time, we were middle aged with 2 kids coming to school leaving age, true and welly in the Precariat demographic - we got as far as an almost hospital visit. Got in the car park and turned right around. We decided we'd rather be in shite Street and whatever the future threw our way we'd face that as and when.
Someone who got through 2 levels of tube snipping really fought to be here in our humble opinions, and every single day I'm glad she is...
Nothing wrong with that opinion.
The question isn't whether or not it's ok to kill kids, it's whether or not a 10 week old foetus is actually a kid.
It's not actually, it is up to 24 weeks.
you can't have rules that only apply to one type of person I'm afraid.
Why-ever not ???
90% of the time my kid spends in school is not doing him any good educationally. 80% of it is spent unlearning what they previously taught because they have to teach in bits.
The whole of school is simply a way to stretch out a few months into 10+ years ... mostly based simply on the idea everyone needs to be taught the same and they have to fill the time somehow.
The whole point of this is at least 50% of the class would benefit by not repeating the same stuff until they are so bored they switch off and would be far better anywhere BUT school for a significant part of the time.
A simple example is the change in how guidelines for maths at KS2 changed into mandatory... it now MUST take 2 years for kids to learn times tables... schools are not allowed to teach any faster.
This means they instead need to teach a whole load of maths without the kids having learned their times tables so they get taught 4x6 = 4x3 + 4x3.
Next year they are taught the 6x table and have to be told that 4x6 = 4x6 except they have already been taught a workaround...
and the whole point of this ??? 99% of kids can learn times tables 1-10 in a day or so... my kid just learned them one weekend the old fashioned way...
then (last year) his teacher was marking 4x6 = 24 as incorrect.... and instead he had to write 4x3 + 4x3
this year he's ALLOWED to know the 6x table and what he was told last year is incorrect...
I won't even go into his reading where he reads proper books (Pratchett or Dahl and Tom Sawyer) at home but was reading "Jack goes to the park" at school....
School spend FAR FAR LONGER preventing kids learning than actually teaching.
The whole announcement that any time away from school adversely affects their GCSE results is obviously not even a misguided statement but a out and out lie.
And as far as out of order, don't suggest, or make allusion to suggest that I should arrange an abortion just because an uncalculable percentage of your tax may be used in the rearing of that child.
It's not actually, it is up to 24 weeks.
I know. But you may consider it at any age UP TO 24 weeks.
And as far as out of order, don't suggest, or make allusion to suggest that I should arrange an abortion just because an uncalculable percentage of your tax may be used in the rearing of that child.
Did I do that? Where?
The whole of school is simply a way to stretch out a few months into 10+ years
A few months? Don't talk shite.
The whole of school is simply a way to stretch out a few months into 10+ years
A few months? Don't talk shite.
This.
A simple example is the change in how guidelines for maths at KS2 changed into mandatory... it now MUST take 2 years for kids to learn times tables... schools are not allowed to teach any faster.
This is just a problem with your understanding of the teaching.
Teaching 4x3 + 4x3 is getting all sorts of concepts in early. BODMAS, breakapart method etc.
The question isn't "what is 4x6" it's "how can I give this child the tools to multiply 4x116 in their head by the end of KS2".
Mol, you didn't. Someone else may have, hence my caveat in that first rant "if"
Jimdoubleyou, I'd much prefer your example than rote learning times tables, as you say it teaches how to problem solve
And as far as out of order, don't suggest, or make allusion to suggest that I should arrange an abortion just because an uncalculable percentage of your tax may be used in the rearing of that child.
No one did. All that was pointed out is as that when it comes to pregnancy, even an unplanned one, there are choices so that isn't a reason for anyone that expect special treatment. It was available to you and your wife and you made a choice that was right for you. Others make different decisions and live with those consequences.
Quite unprovoked from what I can see, you wished someone would get aids.
I'd much prefer your example than rote learning times tables
I don't like rote learning obviously (nor does anyone else who works in education I suspect) but even I appreciate that some is required. Times tables at least up to 10 are something you just have to know.
My daughter's learning them and she is also learning things like factors and how sums work at the same time.