MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
When I took on my current job, I had to accept the 3 recent hires by the previous administrator. Two were decent one was not. His predecessor, who I met last year, even advised the previous administrator not to hire as he was clueless, this fell on deaf ears.
From conversations with the employee, reviewing his CV and listening to his sobbing wife (long long story) it would appear that whenever things are getting tough, or he can't manage it he changes careers or gets retrained.
His current career path, is about 5 years old, of which he has changed jobs 4 times, this one being the longest, he is mid 40s at the moment.
He is hopeless.
He has been offered support, he has been offered advice by more experienced staff, he has been sent on training courses, he has had his hand held, allowances made, ultimately though he is crap. To top it off he won't accept any responsibility, he always has a reason as to why something has gone wrong, and it is never his fault.
8 days to go until the end of his contract, and unfortunately cracks are showing all over the other staff with their relationship with him. Staff have been to date exceptionally tolerant of him, and have put up with his childish outlook, naivety and lack of common sense/savvy, but they are starting to slip. I've diffused a handful of situations over the last two weeks, most instigated by him, and/or his general ineptness.
For the most part of the contract, I have dealt with the majority of major incidents, the staff have just dealt with the day to day ones and are only partially aware of how trying he has been.
The staff nicknamed him 'man-child' early into his contract. A name which is very apt, but of course I can't comment on it with them.
The question is - As his boss, do I sit him down, and tell him that he should consider another career, and he just isn't going to cut it.
I told him on the first working day of this year that his contract wouldn't be renewed, so it's not unknown to not hold any punches with him, however part of me doesn't see any point in investing anymore time in him, but the other part thinks that for the sake of whoever hires him next he needs the truth.
Anybody been in this situation before?
Why would he listen to you when he's spent his working life not listening to other people?
For a contractor with 8 days to go I'd tell him to go home and not come back. Tell him the team will be better off with him gone and leave it at that.
aye be nice about it atleast, give him a week paid off.
Leave well alone. End the contract, don't re hire.
Whether you do the 'exit interview' seems neither here nor there, as mentioned already, if he's spent his life ignoring advice it seems unlikely he'll start by listening to you when you dispense this unwanted bit of wisdom.
There seems little point trying to adjust his attitude at this stage.
Tell him his contract won't be renewed, wish him well in his future endevours, and be thankful you can say goodbye to a liability without any unpleasantness.
Don't bother he won't listen - personality disorder. You are managing him out, that's all you can do.
+1 for gardening leave.
Are you going to be expected to do an exit interview with him? If so, it's up to you how you dress it up or down about his performance/abilities.
Can't you take some advice from HR?
^ unfortunately, other than my boss, 100 miles awat, who has told me to leave well alone, I am the HR person, along with many other roles.
Exit interview never thought of that - I suppose I could invite him into my room, and then immediately ask him to leave, that might sort it out.
Had a very similar situation albeit with added diversity complications. You'll have organisational protocols no doubt, to cover your back if challenged? But in his shoes, he's crapping himself that he's unemployable, who would admit to their failings in that scenario?
Not sure what industry you're in but this is where distinct competencies are essential, to make it clear for him what areas he's weak in, rather than just a big bundle of failure and crapness. That also gives you something to work with to encourage him to pursue, to make you feel better about his departure, there must be some elements that he is ok at?
What I should say is he has the most positive outlook on life of anybody I have ever met. Even when shirking responsibility he is cheery and positive. Just unfortunately he is stubborn and stupid, never a good combination.
Tricky one, yes let him go, but trying to tell him the hard truth without being seen as 'sticking the boot in' will be tough.
Good on you for even thinking about this though, shows more concern for your team than many bosses would have. Whilst they may not be sad to see the back of 'Man-child' I'm sure they'll recognise the fact that you didn't just throw him under the bus.
Good luck, if you handle it right, you letting him go and giving him a few hard truths may just be the best thing that's happened to him.
try this...
I suppose I could invite him into my room, and then immediately ask him to leave
As long as you allow him a bit of dignity on the way out.
I've seen a few folk in my career given the Walk of Shame out the door. It's not nice for anyone. The person feels humiliated and the remaining staff wonder if they might find themselves in the same position one day.
Instead, offer him the opportunity to slip away at the earliest time of his choosing. Let him pack up his stuff and say any goodbyes on his own terms.
Let him go. Don't kick him out.
there must be some elements that he is ok at?
He is exceedingly passionate about his subject area, and feels that everybody should learn how he now understands it.
He describes it as having an epiphany one day at university and realising what he had missed out on at school and nobody else should experience that.
He is a born again Christian, quite fundamental one (first big argument at work was between him and another member of staff, also a christian, when he claimed the Nepalese earthquake was gods will) and although the Christianity doesn't come into his work, I do wonder if the experience of being born again, and his so called epiphany at university, cloud his professional judgement and understanding. Almost as if everybody should experience it as he sees it and therefore the vast majority can't, because it was his experience that changed his understanding of his subject specialism.
Quirrel -
What I should say is he has the most positive outlook on life of anybody I have ever met. Even when shirking responsibility he is cheery and positive. Just unfortunately he is stubborn and stupid, never a good combination.
Are you MY boss? 🙁
the remaining staff wonder if they might find themselves in the same position one day.
That is part of my remit. Move forward and remove if necessary.
A member of staff, not the strongest, made a comment a few weeks back to my second in command that was a bit too spiteful, about him leaving. My second in command reminded him that the spotlight shifts easily.
When you tell temps/contractors that they won't be extended because they're crap, the norm is to give them whatever notice is in their contracts, ie 30 days, and not just let them work through to the end, 5 months later.
Any good reason why you let this happen?
^ complicated contracts, politics, terms, and a vicious labour court that I am almost on first name terms with the head judge.
Not UK based, and assessing the damage that could be caused, vs staffing, and replacing, close supervision and monitoring with support was deemed preferable. His wife is also employed....that is a whole other story.
I now have high blood pressure, and more grey hair.
I'm probably overly loyal and supportive of staff as well. Not sure if they see it, but I do fight for them in the background a lot.
When you tell temps/contractors that they won't be extended because they're crap, the norm is to give them whatever notice is in their contracts,
I'm not sure that's the case - we try to let them know as soon as we have a replacement lined up.
This bloke - does he work in IT and have the initials MK?
If it's the same bloke I know (spooky small world), he's a muppet of the first order and has been as long as I've known him. Actually a bit of a mercenary ****er for a BAC too.
Edit: if it's not the same bloke, there's a lot of it about!
Difficult one
If you think he will listen then try but it sounds like he wont
I tried once I had to spell it out so brutally a grown man cried loudly in my office and everyone heard him.
It still made no difference he returned to his previous team - within the same company- and said he had been a great success!!
I would probably - as you have essentially told them they are crap - just shake their hand wish them luck and then party when they leave
It's 8 days.
Just manage your team - if there are comments made that are out of line, then have a quiet word with the perm staff to get them back in line.
He's a contractor - he's charged you a high day rate, you don't owe him any career advice.
Focus on your perm team.
Some people have zero conscience, and care less for their impact on others. They are aware of it, they just don't care. He probably looks down on you for falling for it, as he pockets the cash, and moves on to the next mug.
[i]Not UK based[/i]
Ah, different rules then.
[i]I'm not sure that's the case - we try to let them know as soon as we have a replacement lined up. [/i]
If they are as described it's usually better to have no one than someone you've to clear up after plus the cash can be 'saved'.
It seems like it won't make any difference so do what you feel is right for you. If it'll make you feel better than go for it.
(sounds sarcastic, actually not)
Sad, but some folk are on the spectrum of autism which comes across as arrogance, belligerence, aloofness, because they simply can't empathise. Not sure what you can really do to accommodate them in a conventional workplace, that doesn't cost a lot in accommodating them, a loss of productivity and disruption beyond their worth.
^ not the first time that autism/aspergers has been brought up in the context of this member of staff or his immediate family.
Really is a very similar to the case I had. Diagnosis is never absolute though, it's a murky subjective area. Imagine how shit scary it must be to be labelled weird and disruptive when you can't recognise 'normality'. You sound like a nice person, but north wind has the best advice imho, do whatever leaves your conscience clear (and you employed!).
What seems to come through your posts on this matter is a great sense of compasison and trying to do the honourable thing. And that's a great attribute for a boss to have. Unfortunately we can't always fix things or people. It feels like you want to have a try at it though, to feel as if you have at least done the best you can to give hime practical advice that may serve him in the future. I would say go for it. Find a way to do it tactfully (although whichever way you do it, it will always look like a **** sandwich) and by way of "observations". As others have said, he is probably unlikely to heed it or believe it is for him but you never know. This time something might just seep through. 😀
With 8 days to go I can't see the point in trying to influence him. I would be pretty pissed off if a boss left it that late to have concerns with me about my performance.
In hindsight maybe you should have tried to influence him earlier in his contracted time?
Whatever you do be aware your paths will cross in future. I moved countries and industries and still bump into people i knew of years ago. Could be the internet age or random stalking I ve no idea but it's spooky knowing some random strangers background overlapping with yours.
^ I did, numerous times, I've even pointed him in directions of suitable positions where he may be able to 'preach' his style. However to no avail.
I've given him advice on his CV, helped rewrite application letters, even offered mock interviews, as has another member of staff.
None of this is last minute or too late, he knows his contract wasn't renewed because of his performance, which had been reviewed previous year, however I have never to this point simply said, go find another career, yet.
My second in command reminded him that the spotlight shifts easily.
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I wish someone would give me that chat.
Id not waste any more time - leave it.
You are not going to help if he cant help himself. He is old enough to make his own choices now.
It is 8 days - do what you can to make them as easy as you can for your remaining team whilst quietly reminding them of the number of sleeps that they have until the pressure of having him around is gone.
Perhaps the day after he is gone, or perhaps the day after that if you need to be very subtle, bring in pastries for your staff and tell them they are doing a good job and make a great team.
As for a sit down and chat with the fella, It doesn't sound from your description that you would be doing much more than peeing into the wind with very good intentions. He hasn't listened, it is unlikely that he will have another epiphany and start now.
In this case, for the sake of 8 days, it doesn't seem like it's worth the bother.
Have a talk with him - an exit interview if you want - he may not take it but at you will have given it a shot, at least for the sake of his sobbing wife !
Go on, don't tease, tell us more about the sobbing wife!
What is important is not him, but the remaining staff.
Let him go gently with his dignity intact - there's no point trying to reason with the areasonable -because your staff won't then be left worrying how you will treat them. If they see him treated with respect despite his flaws it will reflect well on you.
The remaining staff are your priority. He's gone so don't make any further investment, or give him a peg to hang a potential complaint on.
All credit to you, you have clearly tried to help him see things differently. It also sounds as though you want to have one last go whilst you have some influence. As a rule people don't listen unless they actually choose to, though in my view that shouldn't stop you trying if you feel its the right thing to do. All I guess you can do is try and convey the message in a different way, perhaps asking him to reflect upon his time working with you and see if there's an opportunity to approach it that way.
Qurriel - You're making a huge effort to try help someone who has made your life difficult. Full credit to you.
So....
I was walking down the corridor, when he approached me to ask for a couple of hours off work to interview, for the same job he has been interviewed for 5 times now.
Passing pleasantries with him and authorizing yet another block of time off, he mentioned that he had told the people he was interviewing for he wasn't interested in part of the job.
Now to put it in perspective - if he was a baker, and he was applying to work at a new bakery which specialised in bread, croissants and sticky buns, he basically told them he wanted to work for them, but didn't want to make croissants, but would be happy to learn to make sticky buns after a year.
This was the point that I decided enough was enough. I sat him down, and gave him the cold hard facts - you aren't cut out for this job, you aren't flexible, you don't listen, you haven't adapted to the needs of us, you only can see your way to do things, and not everybody else gets it in fact the majority don't get it.
He needs to reevaluate his career choice, why not combine it with the last career. Think of the strain you are putting on yourself, your family and your reputation.
He had the usual clueless expression on his face, there was possibly some computing going on inside his head, then THEN he says - so what you are saying is I should tell them I will make croissants too.
****ing useless ****ing **** stained moron sheep ****ing close eyed tit.
But at least I gave it one last shot, although in hindsight I should have walked away on his comments about the interview.
1 minute left to edit in case you want to change your comment in case it comes up in a tribunal. Do feel for you though, some people never get it but muddle through somehow because in the end there are a lot of kind people around who make allowances and that isn't a bad thing
Don't you love the weird world of android auto text - closed eyed tit? should have been complete tit.
He got the job, told me at the end of year party, it's either going to make or break him, I hope it is the former.
Loyalty is a strange old thing.
Sounds like someone I used to work with in IT....
The question is - As his boss, do I sit him down, and tell him that he should consider another career, and he just isn't going to cut it.
I think he's ideally suited to a career in the civil service..
Hes obviously cut out for a senior management position in the nhs or teaching.
I was genuinely lost for words when he told me he about what he had said to his prospective employer. I had to stop for a few seconds and process what he had said. Had he really just told me that. After I had pointed him in the direction of the company, prepped him on things they would ask about at interview.
All done now and I have certainly learnt from the experience, so I can thank him for that.
A friend of mine owns a small firm in the film industry. He took on a young lad and on the first day gave him a stencil and a paint spray can and told him to stencil the company name on all of the site equipment. When he came back to check progress, he found all the parts beautifully stencilled but back-to front as the lad had placed the stencil upside down.
Marching orders were given the same day. Some people just need to be telt.
He'll be back as your line manager in a year or two 😆
Sounds like a classic passive/aggressive.