probably 2-3 weeks ago ish, this for the Aberdeen centre at TECA
I applied 25 days ago.
I did mine through the St John Ambulance.
Applied, did the interview 2 days later (Saturday), started online training on the Monday (finished on the Thursday), face to face training on the Saturday.
So 10 days in total.
DBS check was complete in that time also.
Just waiting to STA about scheduling my first shift.
I think we all know that any mess ups has nothing to do with you guys. The government is taking healthcare staff for granted, now more than ever.
It's the same in S. Wales, @DrP.
My wife is a GP and her practice got a message yesterday (Friday) afternoon telling them an extra 400 doses will be delivered next week. If they don't use them all they will be penalised in following weeks. However, they have already filled up all available appointments for vaccinations next week so now have to try and work out how to deliver the extra.
All staff are already working flat out and now they will have to be asked to do even more. As you say in your original post, COVID-19 vaccinations are on top of the usual work load. In addition the practice have to pay the staff overtime out of the business funds. There is no money forthcoming from the LHB.
It is an utter shambles and there is very little support* on offer to help GP practices with the extra work involved. However, all the effing keyboard warriors on social media keep banging on about the vaccinations not happening fast enough, no 24/7 delivery, etc. That means on top of all the extra work and stress associated with delivering vaccinations GPs and their colleagues have to put up with this constant stream of negativity and abuse.
*There is actually negativity from some support services. My wife's practice ran a drive through clinic last Saturday at a local sports stadium and managed to deliver 700 flu jabs in the morning and 350 COVID-19 jabs in the afternoon. All planned, risk assessed and paid for by the practice. During the day they received no end of compliments on how convenient and efficient it was: drive in, get details checked, put arm out of window, get jabbed, drive off (park up for 15 mins after COVID jab if driving yourself). Mid-week she got an e-mail from someone in the LHB telling her that what they did was too risky as thieves could have stolen the vaccine or anti-vaxxers raided the site and if the practice does it again they could have all future vaccines withheld!
In addition the practice have to pay the staff overtime out of the business funds. There is no money forthcoming from the LHB.
Do GPs not get paid to carry out vaccinations in Wales, they get paid in England and there were significant incentives in January for vaccinating in Care Homes.
Do GPs not get paid to carry out vaccinations in Wales...
They do, but in the case of COVID-19 they will not receive any payments until after second doses have been given. They will then get paid a fee per patient vaccinated. However, that fee does not cover the extra costs the practice has incurred by paying staff overtime to run clinics on the weekends or out of hours or for any extras such as hiring venues.
With the guidance on how long to wait between doses changing all the time it is going to be months before any payments come through to GP practices.
That sounds depressingly counterproductive and completely opposite to the approach for our sourcing of the vaccines.
That sounds depressingly counterproductive and completely opposite to the approach for our sourcing of the vaccines.
So in line with most other aspects of the governments pandemic response?
Throw a sign outside- they will come
As you say in your original post, COVID-19 vaccinations are on top of the usual work load. In addition the practice have to pay the staff overtime out of the business funds. There is no money forthcoming from the LHB.
Our CCG has actually been pretty good - 'frontloading' the accounts with a few million quid as they know there are BIG additional expenses (all staff and PPE related). This has gone to a local GP led consortium to manage and 'divvy out' as expenses are needed.
The funding (for those who are interested) WILL come from NHSE at some point, but the CCGs are key to making it all work.
However, as has been said here and before... I know that the margins are VERY tight, and if one were to approach this as a business model, it makes no sense.
I.e this is why Virgin healthcare etc will NEVER take on the role of the NHS or 'actual primary care' in totality....it doesn't meet their profit margin needs!!
I mean, it's like asking BA if they will carry on flying passengers for £3.60 profit per head...
DrP
However, that fee does not cover the extra costs the practice has incurred by paying staff
Nearly £4500 didn't cover the costs for an afternoons work?
(park up for 15 mins after COVID jab if driving yourself).
Just playing devils advocate here, and genuine question:
So those not driving themselves left straight after the jab?
What would happen if someone then had symptoms of anaphylaxis 5 or 10 minutes later?
(This also applies to those parked up on their own in the car)
Sounds like a risk, although slight.
Have to say I’m not remotely surprised, I worked briefly on the initial covid testing programme in April, when Boris and Hancock were promising to have 100,000 tests done by end of April, it was utterly farcical, cobbled together at the last minute, nothing to do with combatting/ gauging covid and all to do with getting them out of the shit!
It was evident by the end that there were a lot of dedicated people being led by a handful of utter incompetents!!!
Hopefully the GPs can tap into the 30,000 St John Vaccinators coming through the pipeline. I’ve always seen our role as relieving pressure on the professionals
The financial details sadly don’t surprise most of us.
However, that fee does not cover the extra costs the practice has incurred by paying staff
Nearly £4500 didn’t cover the costs for an afternoons work?
It's not just an afternoon's work. It is hours of planning and contacting patients before the clinic, hiring a venue for the drive through, paying for the hire and erecting of gazebos, transporting supplies, paying staff overtime for weekend working (plus associated pension contributions), paying MDU fees for retired GPs coming back to help. The costs very quickly add up.
(park up for 15 mins after COVID jab if driving yourself).
Just playing devils advocate here, and genuine question:
So those not driving themselves left straight after the jab?
What would happen if someone then had symptoms of anaphylaxis 5 or 10 minutes later?
(This also applies to those parked up on their own in the car)Sounds like a risk, although slight.
If a patient who has been driven suffers any after effects the driver can then drive them back to the drive through clinic.
A member of staff was constantly monitoring those that were parked up after driving themselves to ensure any concerns could be dealt with immediately.
The practice ensured they were prepared for such things as anaphylaxis just in case but luckily no one had any adverse reactions.
What would happen if someone then had symptoms of anaphylaxis 5 or 10 minutes later?
We have a dedicated team on hand just for this. (safe as houses, but adds to the costs)
On a positive note, but a bit rambling.
Wednesday evening, I was having a chat with my Dad. The conversation veered round to a certain vaccination, as my parents are waiting on theirs and I've been a very minor part of the IT input to the spin-up of the various vaccination centres in Leeds - I work in IT for a CCG, we support 95 practices across the city.
We got round to a question that came up on this here forum: which of the current (or in-development) vaccines you would have. My answer was "Whichever I'm offered first. I mean, given a theoretical right here, right now choice, I'd go for one that I only have to have a single dose of, but otherwise, whichever I'm offered first". I'd prefer to opt for a single dose because, well, I'm rubbish with needles to the point of seeing a psychologist about it when I was in school. Dental injections as a teenager triggered a phobia, and my standard response to friendly, helpful health professionals trying to give me necessary and good-for-my-health innoculations was to have a panic attack and pass out on them. As such, I haven't had an injection in 20 years.
Anyway. Checking my works mobile over breakfast on Thursday morning, I had a missed call from a number I didn't know and a text: "Hi Pyro, it's <X> about your Covid vacc". Now I do know <X> - they're one of the Practice Managers who we support - but I also know there's a lot of scams going around. I'm thinking it's either a scam or an out-of-hours support call, but it's 8:30 in the morning, so I'll deal with it when I get to the office. When I get to the office, my workmate says, "Have you spoken to <X>? We're being booked in for our jabs today if we want them." ... Oh.
Being relatively young, I thought I'd be well towards the back of the queue. Yes, I'm in the NHS, but I'm not patient-facing, though I do have pretty much daily contact with colleagues and Practice staff and, occasionally, have to go into Practice sites for surveys and setup. I feel like I could sidestep it, I feel like there's people more deserving and higher priority than me and, as noted, I'm rubbish with needles. I could pass.
But: I'd said I would go for whichever I was offered first. Looks like it's 'money where mouth is' time, I guess.
I phoned back, booked an appointment, and tried to keep my mind off it for the day - easy enough, because we're rammed busy with work at the moment. I started thinking about it and trying to keep myself calm as I drove to the vaccs site - one of our supported practices. I turned up a bit ahead of my appointed time and was greeted by brilliant, happy, friendly volunteers and staff - one of the front desk team recognised me, and I got the standard "Can you have a look at this laptop while you're here?" craic. There was very little queue at 7:30 of an evening so within a couple of minutes of arriving I was in a consulting room with my sleeve rolled up. Another one of my CCG colleagues is acting as the admin in the room, so we shoot the breeze a little. Being upfront with the doctor, I admitted my phobia of needles, and she couldn't have been better with me - I got pointed at the couch to lie down on to save her having to pick me up off the floor if the usual happened. A few questions, a bit of chat while she turns her back to me to draw the dose up, I close my eyes as she turns back round and... "You're done."
I'd have given her a hug if those sort of things weren't frowned upon for various reasons. I lay there for a minute, relieved before I get up and go out for my 15min sit.
So: for me, this goes deeper than just being another person on the path to helping get the pandemic under control; it's a sign that after 20+ years of being absolutely s**t-scared of needles, I can now manage it enough to be one of those people. That said, a mate I ride with tells me on any section that once is a fluke, twice is coincidence, three times you've cracked it, so we'll see if I can get a coincidence when I get called up for my second dose.
And massive thanks to DrP and any of the vaccination teams around the country. Hopefully we'll get there, one terrified (or otherwise) arm at a time.
Our little volunteer delivery service got called through the local voluntary services coordinator - quite a lot of ‘are you sure there aren’t more deserving’ from our riders but I am so relieved that I have had everyone vaccinated as they will be running less risk whilst doing something positive.
It was so easy to book and absolutely humbling seeing the work going into getting everyone done safely.
It made me think that the NHS deserves a ‘new deal’ from government - a real step change in pay and conditions as well as investment. The kind of shift that went into creating it in the first place.
The light at the end of this tunnel is entirely down to those people working their socks off in a calm, friendly and helpful way.
So I'm struggling to comprehend how shit the NHS are doing the simplest things.
After initial Teams interview and the NHS person asking if she can start immediately, Mr b jumped through numerous hoops walked for 3/4hr in a blizzard to do did her on site training. She has heard nothing for a week now, no one has been in touch about anything.
Farcical
My experience is absolutely positive.
We live in Stafford, a town where things just "seem to work". And so close to Cannock Chase too!
On Monday morning, Mrs BigJohn got a call from our doctors; "short notice but can you get to the County Showground at 2:34 today for your vaccination?" She's 18 months younger than me, I was slightly surprised she got the call before me. I'm 67 and we're both registered to the same GP practice, but we go to different clinics.
When she got there she learned that anybody 65 or over was free to turn up, so she called me and I nipped up there too and told a couple of others who also went up and got theirs. It took about 15 minutes in total to get processed and jabbed (the AstraZenica), then we had a waiting area where we had to wait after, all in the warm and dry.
The next day I got an invitation from the doc, so I told them I'd already been, this morning I got my NHS invitation too.
It might be a dull town, but it has its compensations.
I completed my St John Ambulance vaccinator training 3 weeks ago now.
Got my SJA ID card and uniform but still no access to the app that you book shifts through so I can't do anything.
So annoyed.....I just want to get stuck in (as it were)!
There are thousands of volunteers like me who could be doing the jabs which would release some health care professionals to go and do other stuff - or have a break!
😠
That's a bit disappointing to hear @sharkbait. I finished the training today. I started the process ages ago, but then had a long gap between all the online training and today's face to face training due to course availability. So all qualified and chomping at the bit, but likely going to have to wait. My keeness to start is more to do with wanting to consolidate the learning with practical experience so I don't forget stuff. Not (just) because I want to stick needles in people!
@Pyro that's a brilliant outcome, uplifting stuff - thanks for sharing. Chuffed for you!
For context- We’re in the process of onboarding about 1300 people for our two CVC sites, using admin/recruitment staff who are also doing a lot of their regular day-jobs on top of the vaccines work.
Unfortunately there is a lot to do/cover; it does involve injecting a prescription only medicine into someone’s arm so robust training/recruitment processes have to be in place....
I think all us volunteer vaccinators are finding the recruitment processes frustrating. We all understand the magnitude of the task involved, but waiting weeks between each form submission, with no clear roadmap, or even knowing if you will ever be taken on isn’t great.
For all the SJA volunteers, it was 12 days for me between F2F training and getting fully on-boarded able to book shifts. My first day vaccinating is on Thursday. 👍
SJA volunteers are only able to work at centres where the NHS has requested help officially. That seems to be the big centres at the moment, so every shift is 3 hrs in the car for me. I’ve got an NHS GP led big centre in my next village I would cycle to, but not allowed to work there. Hopefully the NHS recruitment comes through eventually - NHS professionals have completed everything and forwarded me to my lead trust for on-boarding (if required, nothing heard for 2 weeks).
I’ve heard nothing but praise for the organisation of centres, but the recruitment process is captaincy painfully slow/lacking communication, which whilst understandable isn’t great for those going through it.
@dantsw13 the trainer at our F2F trg yesterday admitted the system is creaking at the seams a little. He was saying the whole thing happened a lot more quickly than was anticipated because (good thing) the vaccines came online a lot quicker than anyone expected.
Recruitment processes they were hoping to bed in and test before going live had to go operational before they were ready causing loads of teething problems. SJA have 40 full time staff working 12 hour shifts just processing volunteer applications. They originally aimed to recruit 30,000 volunteers but now have 70,000 in the system! The scale and pace of this is incredible.
I think in the circumstances delays and minor cock ups are inevitable and we should all try to be patient and understanding. Everyone I've spoken to or met in SJA has been very helpful and I think they are all trying really hard to make it work.
The lead trainer was an NHS employee working full time Monday to Friday then every Saturday and Sunday as an unpaid volunteer training vaccinators. He hadn't had a day off since mid December!
My experience from working to develop one of the regional solutions is that people didn’t really appreciate the scale of what is happening.
Most businesses start small and grow over years. Vaccination organisations started very small and have grown in to massive 1,000 headcount organisations in 3 months .
I doubt that has had happened at at any point before.
The only thing I would question is whether the leaders are used to running large logistical organisations, and certainly in the region I support the Corporate function has not grown at the pace needed to keep up with what is happening on the shop floor.
Every conversation I have with colleagues and external directors etc I just try and get them to see that this isn’t just a side project but actually a new very large organisation
Blokeuptheroad/sharkbait - from my experience it feels like ages waiting for progress, but once the admin is sorted it happens pretty quickly.
Last Thursday I was assigned to a team in Sussex. Friday my access to the GRS rostering App. I applied for 2 shifts straight away and they were confirmed within 2 hours. Saturday my ID arrived. Next Tuesday I’m getting my jab in Hastings( we can book through the healthcare workers system) Thursday I’m live!
I originally applied to NHS mid December but had no response. That’s why I started down the SJA route. After I’d started the NHS then emailed me. I had a think, and because I’m 50% part time anyway, and no flying at all at the moment, I was happy to commit to both.
Good luck on your first shift on Thursday. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how it all goes. I'm in a similar situation with centres. There is a big centre on Ludlow racecourse I could cycle to and at least two more in the town at a church and a GP surgery. But I think the nearest one I can work at as a volunteer vaccinator is a big regional centre in Telford a 2 hour round trip away. No great shakes, I'm retired and being able to drive somewhere further than the shops legitimately will be a novelty. The motorbike will be used too if this Baltic weather ever warms up.
Good luck and thank you to any of you who are volunteering. I know we've got a sort-of 3 Tier vaccs estate here in Leeds - the PCN hubs (18 across the city) were the first and the ones we've spun up, the Mass Vaccs centre at Elland Road that's wholly managed by the Hospitals trust, and some much smaller clinics in GP Practices. I'm assuming the volunteers are needed at the Mass Vaccs centre mainly.
FunkyDunc - would wholeheartedly agree with the 'new organisation' comment. Same as the plans for the Nightingale hospitals.
I'm not happy at having a needle stuck in me by anyone who thinks "onboarding" is an appropriate term for normal use 🙃
I’ve been “awaiting on-boarding “ for so long it’s become normalised!! My bedside patter is better I promise 😎
My bedside patter is better I promise
"you'll just feel a little prick"?
Hats off to all you volunteers though, and you'll have had some practice by the time you get to me (mid forties)
So... 1st shift as a vaccinator completed. I must admit I was nervous all morning whilst preparing. Wondering how we outsiders would be treated by the real Healthcare Staff?
I was:
Humbled by the amazing people I was working with. Seasoned pro’s and volunteers working hand in hand, pulling together.
Touched by the effect we had on people. Tears in their eyes as they got vaccinated. An end in sight. One patient hadn’t left their house since last March.
Proud to be part of a real national effort. No political slogans, just real people wanting to do a little bit to help.
This morning I was really hoping I would be able to actually vaccinate, as opposed to the many roles required on site. Whilst I did get to do that, by the end, I was downstairs in the store room humping boxes and counting stock. Once amongst all the other hardworking helpers it was just so obvious that it didn’t matter what I was doing. Every little job needed doing and was a small part of the big outcome.
If you can’t tell, I really enjoyed it and will be back on Monday for whatever they want me to do.
Dantsw
Thank you, both for the update and your contribution. As you have already seen it really is appreciated.
Good job 👍
I'm STILL effing waiting for access to the app to book a shift
😤
(It's only been 4 weeks since my training completed 🤷🏻♂️)
At least a SJA fleece arrived yesterday!
Have you got ID & eDBS all done?
If so might be worth an email to them?
It’s very frustrating waiting, but it does get there eventually!!
@dantsw13 thanks for the update and for volunteering. Sounds like it's worth the wait. A week now since I completed the training and no app, no uniform, no ID. Judging by what @sharkbait says, I may have some time to wait yet. I wouldn't mind the wait if I had a timeline or a clear start date but the lack of those or any updates is very frustrating. I'm sure it will all be worthwhile when I do eventually start.
Have you got ID & eDBS all done?
Yep everything done.
Got my ID card and eDBS arrived here 3 weeks ago but had actually been approved prior to the f2f training.
I did email 2 weeks ago and got a "they're finalising stuff" reply.
A consultant mate did point out that it's a "job for life" as this is going to go on for a couple of years at least...... but I want to stab people NOW ....... humph!!
Are you part of a local “Team” yet? Our team leader in Sussex was very good at chasing stuff up.
As I understand it though, SJA admin are just maxed out.
And thanks all for your kind thoughts. I’m aware there are lots behind me on this path too👍
Yeah, emailed the head of the local team I come under. He said he would try to chase things up with HR but effectively told me not to hold my breath. He said there is an average 2 week wait for ID after DBS is finished but I got my DBS cert nearly a month ago.
NHS Grampian the gift that keeps giving. Mrs b has been given her 1st shift at TECA, slap bang in-between her nights 🙄. despite her giving them a list of dates and they've just ignored it it seems.
There are no numbers to call to change this and she has emailed everyone involved that has been on the emails sent to her to try and change it. Nothing at all. So come thursday they will be one person short if they even notice.
I'm in the same position as many. Did all the training, got the uniform, waited on ID card then got sent 2. Got given access to the app but unable to book shifts. Finally that has been sorted and volunteered for a shift as an advocate as none showing for vaccinators at the Kassam in Oxford. Not had that confirmed yet though. I think SJA have just had such a big number of volunteers they haven't had the capacity to deals with everything yet. Looking forward to getting out and doing something.
Chowsh - if your centre is like mine, the NHS & SJA don't seem to align with rostering at all, so you may well turn up & get vaccinating anyway. Whatever you do, enjoy it, as its great fun.
My ID card arrived today, which is something. Still no uniform or app.
