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.. and they rip her off.
My daughter has done babysitting / dog walking etc. but landed herself a 'proper' job stacking shelves in a local corner shop. She is proper pleased with herself. Only minimum wage which, for a 16 year old, is £4.30 per hour but the working hours fit well around her school and are much more sociable than waitressing type jobs
So first day the other day, 4.15pm - 7.15pm as agreed. I pick her up, ask how it went and she says that they put her down for 2hrs 30 mins of work. Apparently when she arrived the shop owner was chatting to someone for 15mins, then she spent 15mins showing her what to do. So they are only paying her for the actual time stacking, not being trained or waiting for the shop owner to start.
How bloody mean are people, ripping off a kid on her first ever day of work for the sake of £2.15p. Nothing I, or her can do about it as not worth the grief, I'll just give her the money then vent on here.
Only minimum wage which, for a 16 year old, is £4.30 per hour
Crikey can't believe its that low 🙁, I was on £4.20 an hour as a kitchen porter at 16 before minimum wage was a thing.
You’re going to be even more annoyed as the minimum wage for under 18s isn’t £4.30, unless she’s an apprentice shelf stacker.
My bad, I knew she was getting minimum wage but my Googlefoo failed me, it is actually £4.62 p/h
They haven't actually paid her yet but I'll keep an eye to make sure it is the right hourly rate.
Drac is right - I had gone away to check I though that was low: https://www.gov.uk/child-employment/paying
I agree it sucks, and doesn't bode well as a good employer.
All our three have worked up from paper round, through either local café or McD's, elder two now doing a couple of jobs with local (Hilton) hotel or at Cv19 testing centre. Other than paper round, they have never earned less than £8 an hour....
It's a good lesson in how the world can work. I'd explain to her that you get to know a place and the people when you have a job and if you don't like the way its run you should look to move on. But rather than being down about it you have to take the positives - It will help her to have it on the CV and when she goes to other jobs and they ask her why she is looking for a new one she can say that on her first day / first shift they under paid her and right from that moment she new to move on. The world of work is all about onwards and upwards.
It's good to know early on how your relationship with your employer is going to work!
Lesson 1: life ain't fair, get on with it or get a new job, expect to be working from the bottom.
Leave and get another job. Loads of places around at the moment that can't get staff for love nor money so no need to work for a dick. If people keep taking it then they'll keep behaving like it.
The next useful lesson she can learn about employment is that she owes an employer nothing (particularly one who chisels her out of a couple of quid), and should bugger off to another job without looking back if something comes up.
Lesson 1: life ain’t fair, get on with it or get a new job, expect to be working from the bottom.
There is starting from the bottom and there is being taken advantage of. This example is the latter and completely unnecessary for the sake of a few quid. It is also rude to chat to your mate for 15 minutes when you know somebody is there to see you, to not pay them on top of that is not on.
Tell her to join the union. 🙂
30mins pay unlawfully docked IMO.
On the plus side, the employer is introducing themself with a nice clear, 'I'm a total ****' so she's not having to wait a few weeks finding out bit by bit.
Sadly, I think it's just the way of the world now that employers feel empowered to do this kind of thing.
****s.
My oldest (just turned 16) got a waitressing job in a local pub/restaurant run by a big chain- turns out she's on the books as an apprentice because it means there's more flexibility over her working hours. Sailing pretty close to the wind imo, they know perfectly well she's heading back to school.
She's happy though, she had an early finish from school with GCSE's so she's had a lot of hours, topped up with decent tips she's been happy to go along with it.
I'm not totally ok with it, but as uwe-r says it's a bit of an intro to the world of employers....
That's pretty poor. My middle one worked in a cafe and the boss had a bit of a reputation that turned out to be quite fitting. They "sacked" her for no apparent reason, save for saying some people had complained about the coffee she made. 17yo, a bit naïve, no training offered. Totally knocked her confidence but she now has a great job in hospitality and as I told her at the time, now she knows what a bad employer looks like. As for OP, daughter needs to rinse the job for her benefit and just keep looking for alternatives. But what a terrible way to treat a new starter.
Crikey can’t believe its that low 🙁, I was on £4.20 an hour as a kitchen porter at 16 before minimum wage was a thing.
My first ever job after leaving school was for £1.32ph at Asdas. Which equates to about £3.60ph now. So Minimum Wage has at least improved things a bit, for some.
30mins pay unlawfully docked IMO.
Yep. 100%; turned up on time, should be paid from that time. Why anyone would dock a teenager £2.15 is beyond me. What utter ****s. I'd be finding a new job, asap.
Tell her to join the union.
This. The more people that do, then hopefully the less people can be exploited and ****ed over by ****s.
Thanks everyone. Its worth her sticking it out for a bit as the hours suit her really well, they don't eat in to her evenings or weekends so that time stays free for her to stare at her phone and scowl at her parents study hard and socialise with friends.
They did let her bring home some stilton which was on its sell by date so not all bad (she hates stilton so bonus for me)
Yeah - stick it out for a while. The life lessons learnt can be much more valuable than the money.
And there's an attitude amongst a lot of teenagers (many of my daughters friends), that if something doesn't quite suit them they up sticks and bugger off.
Always worth sticking it for a while, but probably worth her applying for larger stores, such as the B&Ms, Home Bargains, etc of the world as they tend to have more structure, smaller independents can either be a good environment, or horrific, they don't tend to follow much structure and that can push them down the route that this way sounds.
She can easily recoup those loses by helping herself to the stock every now and then. She just needs to learn where the cameras are first.
This thread is weird. OP, are you seriously saying that you've basically told her that this sort of treatment is fine and she should just accept it?
Why?
Top parenting....
Maybe the life lesson here is to stand up to people and make your case in a calm but firm manner.
Find out what the correct rate for minimum wage is and do the maths. If she's been short changed, she can ask why. If not happy with the explanation, challenge further. It's an important skill. More and more people seem to resort to screaming and shouting to make their point.
Nothing wrong with looking for something else if things don't suit. Much better than feeling you're trapped in something...that's no good for anyone. Where alot of modern teenagers fail is where they see certain jobs or tasks are beneath them. many teenagers these days wouldn't dream of getting a part time job stacking shelves down the local corner shop and would rather lounge around at home and do nothing and earn no money at all and try to sponge off their parents. Back in our day it was common place for kids and even people in the early part of their careers to do menial jobs...starting from the bottom as it were.
I did a work experience placement for free when I was 16 for 6 weeks just for the work experience. I'm not sure kids these days would do that and some on here would see that as exploitation. Not even sure its still legal these days. I may have not got a wage for that work but I got a hell of alot of learning and experience from it which stood me in good stead when I started looking for work. It's all about delayed gratification. Think current generations are less keen on that concept than older generations.
So good on the OP's daughter for being willing to get up and do the job, but that doesn't mean she should accept being treated badly or exploited...that's all part of the experience and learning to stick up for yourself.
Might be worth seeing how it goes...it might have been a one off and things might improve, but no point in hanging around being treated like crap.
Employer now know they can take the piss. Look for somewhere else. Easier to find a job when you have a job etc.
Then wee in shoes, bombers, sausages in lawn etc
Sounds crap, she can chalk it up to experience. Do the job while looking for another, in her exit interview she can explain that them doing her out of £2 was the reason, she'll move on and they wont change.
back in 1995 my first job stacking shelves at Scotmid got me £2.14.33p
Do the job while looking for another, in her exit interview she can explain that them doing her out of £2 was the reason, she’ll move on and they wont change.
This.
This thread is weird. OP, are you seriously saying that you’ve basically told her that this sort of treatment is fine and she should just accept it?
Why?
Top parenting….
Not at all but, so early on, not worth walking out or fighting it. There is lots of value in her working, earning, and learning about how some people are dicks. She won't learn anything by walking out or me getting involved. She'll still take home a wage this week, it will be more than she had last week and if a better opportunity comes along she'll take it.
If the unfair pay is anything more than a one off then we'll step up and address it.
What do you suggest we do instead?
many teenagers these days wouldn’t dream of getting a part time job stacking shelves down the local corner shop and would rather lounge around at home and do nothing and earn no money at all and try to sponge off their parents. Back in our day it was common place for kids and even people in the early part of their careers to do menial jobs…starting from the bottom as it were.
Ok boomer
exit interview
LOL!
There is lots of value in her working, earning, and learning about how some people are dicks.
Yep, totally agree
She won’t learn anything by walking out or me getting involved.
I'm not suggesting walking out. I'm suggesting she speak to them and say that she wants to be paid for the hours worked ( ie present, requested and ready to work)
If they push back then get her to tell them that withholding pay is seriously illegal and that she wants paying fir thd hours worked.
If she gets nowhere then fair enough, cibsider her options, bit it seems a bit early to lie down and be treated like a doormat
She’ll still take home a wage this week,
That sounds like fairly low aspirational bar, right there. Wouldn't it be even better to take home her full wage?
BTW, I fully sympathise with your situation and my frustration is aimed as much at the shit UK system of shitting on the people beneath as it is you.
But perhaps a bit more teeth?
I'd strongly suggest she pushes back. What's the worst that can happen? They let her go. Big whoop, like there's a shortage of low-skilled, low-paid jobs at the moment. If they know she's just going to roll over - and at her age, they will almost certainly assume that she will because she doesn't know any different - then they'll carry on doing it and it'll normalise it for her.
She worked for three hours, she should be paid for three hours, end of story. What sort of utter pondlife rips off a teenager for two ****ing quid? Send me Paypal details and I'll pay her myself.
agree this is very poor from the employer, but its good to have some working experience under the belt, so stick it out a bit until something better comes along, unless there is already something better out there.
my daughter's a bit older, but was subject to a few 'trial shifts' from cafe's. most were unpaid full shifts, where there is about half an hour of training, and then being left alone to do what they've been shown with minimal supervision.
thankfully the one she really enjoyed working at ended up paying her for the shift, and paid her bus fare for her to get to the trial, and gave her a job. top marks!
in her exit interview
my daughter’s a bit older, but was subject to a few ‘trial shifts’ from cafe’s. most were unpaid full shifts, where there is about half an hour of training, and then being left alone to do what they’ve been shown with minimal supervision.
This is the one that is really pissing me off at the moment. There are bars and cafes getting 20 free shifts a month out of this bullshit practice.
I saw a TV report where some pondlife from the Bar Owners Association or whatever the **** they're called was basically saying, 'It's unfair for people to expect us to pay for these trial shifts. We're barely turning a profit as it is.'
I bet a lot more businesses would be profitable if they could figure out how to not pay their staff.
That sucks, I fancy it's not the start of a great employer / employee relationship.
My Eldest turns 16 next month (HTF did that happen!) and I'm frankly amazed and delighted he's dying to get his first job.
Luckily for us, there's loads of supermarkets and their mini versions near to us and they're all understaffed at the moment.
Tesco, who I worked for when I was 16, pay all their staff the same, regardless of age, £9 a hour, Co-op £9.30 etc. He's after a couple of evening shifts and a Saturday (just like I did) I don't know how realistic that is in 2021, but that's what I did in the mid-90s and earn himself about £500 a month... £500 a month, no bills, no responsibilities and limitless energy to enjoy it? He's doing better than me!
Reminds me of my first day of proper work after leaving college in the 80s, company was a manufacture of power supplies in the East Midlands with a high employee turnover. Made all three of us new starters work an extra hour the first day after most people had left to make up for time taken with induction. Fortunately got home to another job offer so told them to stuff it the next day, all three of us starters had moved on with a couple of months.
I'd not kick up a fuss while she looks for something else and then move on.
Reminds me of my first day of proper work after leaving college in the 80s, company was a manufacture of power supplies in the East Midlands with a high employee turnover. Made all three of us new starters work an extra hour the first day after most people had left to make up for time taken with induction. Fortunately got home to another job offer so told them to stuff it the next day, all three of us starters had moved on with a couple of months.
As above, my first 'real' employer was Tesco and whilst I moaned a lot because I was a lazy kid, they were pretty good to us. 10% Staff Discount you could sign over to your parents made a read difference in our house, 3 subsidised meals a day and double-time on Sundays, which none of the grownups wanted to do and frankly they put up with a lot of surly teenagers hanging about trying to look busy and not doing much. The world has changed a lot since those days, if nothing else we closed at 8pm and the store was like a ghost town by 7.
My first full-time job though was horrible, Argos, recruited us all for a new store opening in September after I left school, no mention of 'casual work' or 'zero hours' we just signed a contract and told to get to work. The work was hard, hot and relentless, pretty dangerous too, lots of people getting minor injuries in the dark warehouse (the back of Argos is nothing like the front). When December came it was announced that our "trial period" was nearly over and they'd be cutting half of us. It didn't take long to work out they'd recruited a lot more than they planned to keep after the Xmas rush.
Xmas eve I arrived at work, told I didn't have a job after today and told to get to work, it was a madhouse all day of course, 8pm (12 hours after starting) they locked the doors, with us inside and we were told we had to take down all the Xmas displays and build the doxing day sale displays before we could leave, they literally locked us in, being 19 and a bit stupid I stayed! We left a few hours later, and they didn't even pay us the OT.
3 subsidised meals a day and double-time on Sundays
Subsidised canteens! Extra pay for working outside normal hours! I remember those days. We're lucky to get a vending machine with £1 per can of pop in it now.
I once earned a week's pay for working an Easter Monday (I think) at 4xhourly rate. Testing the milk out of bulk tankers as they came into the creamery.
Subsidised canteens!
One of my clients still has one!
When I say imagine eating with your colleagues every day and most people think “oh sod that, I’m not spending anymore time with those dicks”.
The funny thing in that place, they all seem to get on, moral seems high and almost no one ever leaves.
But nah, better everyone leave for greggs or pret or eats sandwiches at their desk alone.
Over 20 years later, it still gives me huge sense of smug satisfaction thinking back to when I walked out of a crappy chefs job.
Head chef was the owners son and a complete prick, the family owned a couple of successful places (inherited from the grandfather) and were absolutely loaded.
It was split shifts, minimum wage. On my first day I was told to come in half hour early each day to get set up - unpaid. I was also told I'd be occasionally expected to work right through without a split so over 12 hours work with the 4 in the middle unpaid, and it turned out it wasn't an unusual occurrence. So basically I was earning less than the minimum.
I lasted about a month, got another job lined up, then waited for a particular busy day.
"You need to work through, we've got a large party coming in"
"Oh that's a shame, I've already agreed to help out my brother for a couple of hours"
"You'll have to cancel it, you're needed here"
"Ok, well he's paying me for that 2 hours, and you're not. Goodbye"
I can still see the prick's face drop as he realised he was totally in the shite.
In my experience, small business owners, particular in hospitality, who can only pay minimum, don't deserve to be in business. They're relying on virtual slave labour.
Advice to the op's daughter. They're paying less than minimum, so give them less than minimum effort, look for something else, and if they take piss again just walk out.
“Ok, well he’s paying me for that 2 hours, and you’re not. Goodbye”
It astounds me
a) how many employers expect free labour, and
b) how many employees supply free labour.
Subsidised canteens!
Quite a few High tech firms in Cambridge have these, seen as a really cheap way to keep staff onsite, encourage collaboration etc
I'm glad my exit interview comment made at least two of you laugh.