[Closed] Team GB - Wendy Houvenaghel - not a happy bunny.

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/37-year-old-decides-to-finish-career-on-a-high-note ]Bindun...[/url]

Ah yes...

Cheekily framed pic from the Beeb there!

Our cycling success is based on hard work and hard nosed professional coaches making the right call and not allowing sentiment to cloud their judgment .Thats why they do things like this and not selecting Hoy to defend the sprint title

Sour grapes. Good of her to stay and cheer her team mates on though if I'm reading it correctly. 🙄

"I had to accept it. I left the building and with it left behind Northern Ireland's next Olympic gold medal.

If they hadn't won a medal, then I could undertand but it's a purely selfish view from Houvenaghel.

Toys ejected from the perambulator, she's never quite seemed to have the class of the rest and has displayed it in this, team GB don't owe her anything and she needs to come to terms with it.

She should take a lesson from Chris Hoy

[i]Dave Brailsford, Team GB Cycling's Performance Director, responded by saying that he and his team had to "take the personal element out of it, and look at the data and be professional".

"Our job is to be impartial - it's a tough job. We have to support the people on the track, try to win medals and we've had a few tough decisions to make.

"Unfortunately, in a squad there are always going to be people who miss out - that comes with the territory, everyone knows the score.

"As long as the decision-making is fair, impartial, and everyone understands the process, it can't be reproached.

"If people don't understand it and it's not quite clear and people think there might be some personal bias involved, then that's an issue.

"But I think when a team steps up and makes six world records on the trot and a gold medal, then I don't think you can argue with that." [/i]

Exactly.

The selectors obviously have no idea what they are doing , just look at the results................oh!

+ she's got a funny name 😆

I suspect she has a bit of a flighty temperament (not as bad as Romero mind) and just to keep her on board as effectively the alternate (they always needed a 4th just in case one was not able to race) they had play up her chances of riding which makes hearing the truth pretty bitter. Also a case of them saying one thing and her hearing something else.

Must be rough getting proper championship fit and then not even being able to take to the boards once but she's not shown too much class there.

Look at it the other way though - they could have slimmed down to 3 a while back and lobbed her out - instead she got to be a member of the team on circa £60-80K pa to ride her bike. Not the same as getting a medal but I'd have swapped places with her in a heart beat.

she's never quite seemed to have the class

Wouldn't expect less from the RAF, maybe if she'd been in the Army or Navy instead... 😉

You can't argue with the result but Wendy's point if view should be considered. The times were faster with her as part of the trio and one of the girls was sick the morning of the race.

"She had been vomiting and possibly not at 100% effectiveness, so I thought at that point I will be riding.
"I was told to get ready for the final but with 30 minutes to go I was told 'you're not riding' by Shane Sutton.

Not handled well by either party really

Everyone seems to be assuming she's wrong, maybe she's right, maybe they would have been faster with her riding, she says they rode faster in training with her in the team and there has been no rebuttal of that.

Just because British cycling has been hugely successful at these games doesn't mean its not a melting pot of politics and cliques, just like any other organisation or company.

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Having now watched the interview, wouldn't it have been even more unfair to drop one of the others who had actually ridden to make it to the final?

I can understand why she is upset and there appears to have been some poor communication from 'the management' if she is to be believed but when she almost managed to not smile when recollecting that one of her teammates was vommitting I thought hmmmmmm? Maybe the attitude was a bit suspect generally in training?

The fact that none of the winners contacted her afterwards either may speak volumes re how she was viewed by her teammates.

Having now watched the interview, wouldn't it have been even more unfair to drop one of the others who had actually ridden to make it to the final?

Well they would still have got a medal in that case.

Maybe it was bad timing to whinge now, but if what she says is true (not refuted by Brailsford), then you have to have at least a little sympathy for her.

I always feel a bit sad for Cav when he's sat in that commentators box, and everyone else in it is saying how wonderful it is that we're winning all those medals. That's got to grate a bit.

I read somewhere that Laura Trott routinely vomits before an event, so if it's that she's referring to it's neither here nor there I suppose.

She must be massively disappointed but she's not handling herself very well. If DB/Sutton have said one thing and done another that's bad, but they're there to win. And I'd be more inclined to believe they've said one thing and she's heard another.

Thinking about it again - it was important to have their best team for the first round to get the top seeding and the final but the semi was always going to be an absolute cake walk and with Laura Trott doing the omnium too this week they could have rested her and given Houvenaghel one round and therefore a medal. There are probably good reasons to do with balance and settling the team I don't understand which makes this rubbish.

Apparently the fifth rider on the mens team never rode either. Not sure we've heard him moaning though. I'm sure it's not fun to miss out on a gold but it's not about the individual, surely it's about the team and the best group for a gold medal.

And she will DEFINITELY be selected again now. Silly cow.

And she will DEFINITELY be selected again now. Silly cow.

Given she won't make Rio anyway, I don't suppose she's too bothered about that.

Houvenaghel has gone public with this, Romero had a proper toys out of the pram moment before she quit the sport & Peddleton looks to have had more than a little bit of a rocky relationship with the management, and there's Nicole Cooke on the road who has developed a terrible reputation for poor team spirit. Either Sutton and Brailsford are proper old skool unreconstructed blokes with poor people handling skills around women or they must have been wondering what the hell they had done wrong in a former life! As a former club mate of Danni King when she was young she is a lovely person to be around and so seems to be Laura Trott and Jo Roswell so it's not all bad.

I would feel the same if I had broken world records in training only not to get just 1 race in the finals. Put it this way imagine working your butt off for 4 years, for 3 people to take the money leaving you skint! You'd come on here crying and howling!

Put it this way imagine working your butt off for 4 years, for 3 people to take the money leaving you skint! You'd come on here crying and howling!

You would... but that's not what's happened, is it?

She has a case if they didnt win gold, but they did. Take one for the team. Simples. Act like a spoilt brat and be treated like one.

Given that Laura Trott is still competing you'd have thought she could have held it in a bit longer. Not exactly the best way of showing support for the team.....

She has a case if they didnt win gold, but they did

Well no - she has a case if they'd have been faster with her riding. All the gold medals and world records don't change that.

Well no - she has a case if they'd have been faster with her riding. All the gold medals and world records don't change that.

And the only people who really know what her performances are like relative to what everyone else is doing is the team management and coaches. And they made the call to not include her...

At face value (so taking the story as read, with Dave "Christ" Brailsford's comments), I have some sympathy for her. Unfashionable as it sounds in the face of all the jingoistic tubthumping. It does sound like she was done over, for whatever reason.

It does sound like she was done over, for whatever reason.

It just sounds to me like they had to pick 3 people from their squad to ride, which means someone was always going to be on the bench.

Has anyone come up with a good reason as to why they would leave out a stronger/faster rider?

Has anyone come up with a good reason as to why they would leave out a stronger/faster rider?

To give Trott a rest for one of the rounds (semi) given her busy program? Not saying they should have but it is pretty common practise in swimming for the heats.

Aye - but why [i]wouldn't[/i] they do that? There must have been a very good reason.

Has anyone come up with a good reason as to why they would leave out a stronger/faster rider?

Well it the team management that has to answer that as it apparently looks like that's what they did.

I can imagine that her bitterness is because they were clearly going to win regardless and if she'd been allowed to ride, all four would then have got gold medals - I can certainly see how that would grate.

But BC have time and again stated that they want to make professional decisions rather than personal ones and this seems to be very much a case of that. Harsh but fair basically. I guess that if they'd compromised in this instance, it would have ramifications from here on in whenever close selections were involved.

And the only people who really know what her performances are like relative to what everyone else is doing is the team management and coaches. And they made the call to not include her...

Not necessarily because the team wouldn't have been faster with her in it, which is the issue if what she says is true (the relevant point hasn't been refuted by the management).

You can't always compare performances though - eg the time that she's claimed may be on totally fresh legs whereas the time set in the final wasn't. Not to mention atmospheric conditions or even just one of the riders who on paper wouldn't have been replaced by her regardless having a slightly less good ride than expected.

£60,000 TO £80,000 certainly not from bc..

If she was on the fighting form she says, it does seem strange that they didn't rotate Trott out of a round or two to keep her fresh for the Omnium.

Maybe they wanted to give Trott a confidence boost ahead of the Omnium, or they're already thinking of the next Olympics, or they thought team moral overall would be better served by that combination of riders taking the gold... who knows?

They're probably thinking of maximising the medal tally, not setting the fastest possible times on the way to doing that.

they're already thinking of the next Olympics

The most likely answer I'd have thought. Doesn't stop such a selection decision being somewhat unfair on her though - it's the sort of non-objective thing which would be appealed if it were selection for an individual event.

£60,000 TO £80,000 certainly not from bc..

I don't know for sure but I think you'd be surprised! There was an interview during the GB athletics champs/trials and that was the figure that was used as what was given to our sprinters through lottery funding as a salary (not inc support costs etc). Given our sprinters are not true world beaters but our cyclists are I'd be surprised if they were on less.

Given our sprinters are not true world beaters but our cyclists are I'd be surprised if they were on less.

You may be suprised.

I know that in the early 2000s most of the rowers who won gold were on around low £20s 'salary' from the lottery while sprinters and the like who were not as good in their field were getting a fair bit more - it was a source of some annoyance to say the least...

And don't forget that they typically have to pay for travel/training camps/etc from that...

I know that in the early 2000s most of the rowers who won gold were on around low £20s 'salary' from the lottery while sprinters and the like who were not as good in their field were getting a fair bit more - it was a source of some annoyance to say the least...

And don't forget that they typically have to pay for travel/training camps/etc from that...

As you say - it could well be different between different sports. But LOTS has changed since the early 2000's not least a big connection between funding to the sport and previous results. Rowing and Cycling now both recieve more (Rowing £27M & Cycling £26M) than athletics (£24M) which was very different 10 or 12 years ago where they recieved a fraction of what athletics got.

And that £60-80K figure was discussed as "salary" with travel/coaching etc on top.

Yeah, fair comment - just pointing out that not all sports are equal in terms of funding.

It's a shame that she's turned it into a bit of a spat, but then she wanted to go out on a high and has been denied, understandable I guess.

Thing is mind, the Mgt do seem to know what they are doing and every rider is treated the same, so hey..

I hope she enjoys her retirement from the sport and doesn't keep harping back to it as some sort of crutch.

While I can see the logic and in terms of the long term the management probably made the right decision, I'm sure in her position, the fact that they basically chose not to give her a gold medal would really rankle.

I'd imagine the future earning potential for a gold medal winner over a non-medal winner is quite significant. Wendy has been denied this opportunity, and regardless of the reasons given by the team, she must understandably feel absolutely gutted. I'm sure anyone here would. That could potentially be millions of pounds she's missing out on in endorsments, appearance fees, TV punditry etc.

What strikes me as different to the set-up of Team GB over the last few years is that it seems to be a ruthless machine modelled on the US, Russian and Chinese systems, win at all costs rather than the 'oh well it's the taking part that counts' mentality we traditionally held. The athletes now seem far more focussed and determined than in the past; look at how upset some have been at 'only' getting silver medals. Seems it's gold or nothing. Fine, it is the way to win, but it's going to have it's casualties. And Wendy is one of them. Just one ride out of the six qualifiers would have given her a gold, just reward for all her hard work and dedication over the years. When you've sacrificed so much, and ended up with nothing, whilst others you've outperformed get all the spoils, that must really really hurt.

Anyone who comes up with crap such as 'toys being thrown out' has obviously never been in a position where they set to lose everything they've dreamed of. And they're forgetting she's a human being with emotions and feelings.

Brailsford et al have gone down in my estimation following this. I'm glad i don't have to work for them.

I'm glad i don't have to work for them

Interesting - would you prefer to work for someone who makes dispassionate decisions based on facts or someone who makes decisions based on opinion? I prefer the former - some might prefer the latter.

As I said previously I can see that once you breach the 'based on fact' rule then it becomes much harder to stick to it in future and I'd say that it's a key part in the success. Whether that's an acceptable price for success you can argue of course but I know which way I prefer.

That could potentially be millions of pounds she's missing out on in endorsments, appearance fees, TV punditry etc.

Doubt it. Tens of thousands probably. There are too many gold medal winners now - medal value deflation 🙂

They're there to win, the best riders get to ride in order to do this, all the other riders that didn't ride in the past when Houvenaghel rode have had to deal with the same thing.
As has Hoy when Keenny rode the sprint.

She's kind of shot herself in the foot for any future work with British Cycling too as she's sure to have pissed a few people off with this outburst

Given the team nature and qualification rounds [ hardly struggling were they - and that she had rideden in a team that beat the final record ] she should have been given her chance as it was prety much risk free

You have to feel sorry for her given her age etc and how hard she worked to just sit and watch.

Do agree with Mike, Brailsford/GB delivers but it in a LA style of pure determinism with no sentimenatlity which will undoubtedly upset some. I would expect more of this in the future and I would not want him as a boss either. Makes me reconsider the cav can go comments for example and next year will they let Wiggo defend the TdF or suport Froome for example
I predict a team schism at some point tbh..you need to take people with you on this journey and reward everyone for their efforts

I think it was the England rugby coach who said the reaction of those dropped form the final were more importnat than those chosen as they could drag everyone down with them. GB may need to learn some people mgmt skills rather than dictatorial ones.

She's been a national, european and world champion. Plenty of reward for 6 years hard work.
Olympics-wise; she wasn't good enough to make the team. Unlucky.
They all knew that they wouldn't all make the team. It really is tough shit.

the reaction of those dropped form the final were more importnat than those chosen

Hoy seemed to deal with it ok 😉

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/533981/kenny-not-hoy-selected-for-london-2012-olympic-sprint.html

mikeconnor - Member
I'd imagine the future earning potential for a gold medal winner over a non-medal winner is quite significant. Wendy has been denied this opportunity...she must understandably feel absolutely gutted.

True

Team GB...seems to be a ruthless machine... win at all costs rather than the 'oh well it's the taking part that counts' mentality we traditionally held. The athletes now seem far more focussed and determined than in the past.

Phew, professional spirit at last. I grew up in 70's and 80's and its refreshing to have winners inspire my kids compared with the scant offerings we had in our youth.

Fine, it is the way to win, but it's going to have it's casualties.

Sport has good lessons for life?

Anyone who comes up with crap such as 'toys being thrown out' has obviously never been in a position where they set to lose everything they've dreamed of. And they're forgetting she's a human being with emotions and feelings.

Wasn't part of the old system that you appear to prefer (I assume from above) characterised by dignity and stiff upper lip? Plenty have tackled disappointment in a more dignified manner. Again lessons for life?

Brailsford et al have gone down in my estimation following this. I'm glad i don't have to work for them.

For me the opposite, gone up and would be very happy to work for someone who assessed me purely on performance and contribution to team.

Junkyard - Member
GB may need to learn some people mgmt skills rather than dictatorial ones.

Time will tell on this one, I reckon JY. There's more to this than we understand.

Interesting - would you prefer to work for someone who makes dispassionate decisions based on facts or someone who makes decisions based on opinion? I prefer the former - some might prefer the latter.

It's Sport. Sport is meant to be sporting. Bradley Wiggins was lauded for his sportsmanship when he instructed the peloton to stop racing and wait for Cadel Evans in the Tour de France. Had Bradley had a major mechanical in one of the time trials, he may well have lost his advantage to a rival, wheeras he could have gained some time by attacking Evans when he punctured. but he didn't. He acted in a sporting manner.

I think it's that fact that Team GB cycling have lost sight of here.

Doubt it. Tens of thousands probably. There are too many gold medal winners now - medal value deflation

Well let's just say enough to provide a relative amount of security for the future then. And when we see people like Mary Peters and Alan Wells wheeled out by the BBC, it's clear that winning gold can be something you can forever 'dine out' on. I imagine they'll be getting paid handsomely for their services, decades after their achievments.

And who remembers the athletes who won nothing?

Brailsford et al have gone down in my estimation following this. I'm glad i don't have to work for them.

+1

Interesting - would you prefer to work for someone who makes dispassionate decisions based on facts or someone who makes decisions based on opinion?

The question is, what proof do you have that the decision to leave her out was based on facts? Based on the unrefuted comments made by Houvenhagel it seems likely that wasn't the case...

IIRC Hoy made the team sprint...how would he have reacted to have omission from that and not given the golden last leg?

FWIW I think he knew/felt he was too old to get all 3
ou needto manage folk
Still think she has a point. If she could beat WR times and if she was told she would ride what does Brailsford expect when she gets nothing?
Poor person/team management

It's Sport. Sport is meant to be sporting. Bradley Wiggins was lauded for his sportsmanship when he instructed the peloton to stop racing and wait for Cadel Evans in the Tour de France. Had Bradley had a major mechanical in one of the time trials, he may well have lost his advantage to a rival, wheeras he could have gained some time by attacking Evans when he punctured. but he didn't. He acted in a sporting manner.

Possibly a fair comment though IMO not directly comparable, not to mention that your definitions of sport and sporting are yours and not absolute. IMO sport is meant to be fair. Besides, while I'm sure Brad did what he did for the right reasons, if he hadn't he knows full well that he'd have been done over next time he was in a similar position...

mikeconnor - Member
And who remembers the athletes who won nothing?

Outside, their family, probably no-one. And the point is?

I can understand why she's a bit narked, must be gutting.

But we've only really got her version, she says she's faster, Shane S just told her no ride etc. Not saying she's wrong, but people can have very different versions of the same events due to there perspective.

Comments about the rider being sick are odd as Trott suffers with this at all her races?

Maybe she's disrupted the team? The other 3 made a big point of how well they get on in their BBC interview.

Thought it was a dignified interview given how disappointed she must be

Can't blame her for wanting to give her version of events and can't be a nice way to end your career

Having seen the others interviewed you can see how she wouldn't fit in being that much older and considerably less giggly

The question is, what proof do you have that the decision to leave her out was based on facts? Based on the unrefuted comments made by Houvenhagel it seems likely that wasn't the case...

Inconclusive as I said above - we don't know whether the comparison is fair.

As it goes I wouldn't have had an issue with her being subbed in but I can also see that DB was in a difficult position for the long term. They have stated hard and fast that they make dispassionate decisions. Breaking that rule would likely have had impact over time. I'm sure that allowing Wendy to race would have been the easy decision so if they decided against, I can only assume that it wasn't the right one.

Let's face it, it's opinion. We won't agree. I can fully understand Wendy's distress but that doesn't mean she's right.

colonel wax - Member
The other 3 made a big point of how well they get on in their BBC interview.

Indeed they did, so perhaps Brailsford has good people skills after all?

But we've only really got her version

I see a response there by Brailsford - which doesn't really refute anything she said.

Mibbe he has more important things on his mind than getting into a slagging match?

Outside, their family, probably no-one. And the point is?

You've answered that yourself.

For me the opposite, gone up and would be very happy to work for someone who assessed me purely on performance and contribution to team.

Wendy had performed easily to the required standard throughout the build up and in training. She wasn't left out because she wasn't good enough, on paper at least. They could easily have given her one or two early rounds, and she'd now have a gold medal as a reward for her achievements. She's been part of that team that's won. She deserves her reward for that. She's been denied that by a management who seem more intent on securing their own careers than actually considering the human beings involved. It's very sad. In my opinion, the decision to exclude Wendy completely, taints every medal Team GB have won on the track.

Are you TJ? 🙂

How do you know all this mike, you sound very definitive on this?

mikeconnor - Member
Outside, their family, probably no-one. And the point is?
You've answered that yourself.

I know. Sport is a brutal business at the top level.

mike doesn't need to know. He only wants to hold a different/controversial opinion as he's still smarting from the Critical Mass "kettling" thread.

so perhaps Brailsford has good people skills after all?

Oh, I was hoping he really had the inside track as it would be good to really now what happened! 😉

A gentle troll, how very dare you JY 😉 No, it was a serious point. Perhaps he understands/understood dynamics better than the rest of us. Controversial ideal, I know!

Purhaps, given this out burst, even if her perfomance was equal to the other team members her inclusion may have been seen as a destabalising influence and this may have been a contributory factor in her non inclusion, possibly.

mike doesn't need to know. He only wants to hold a different/controversial opinion as he's still smarting from the Critical Mass "kettling" thread.

That you've brought this up suggests that the opposite is in fact true. Personally, i'm just realistic that you will get ignorant uninformed views spouted on internet forums.

dispassionate

See, I'd always thought passion was a fundamental part of all sports? i'd hate to see any of our athletes perform dispassionately.

mikeconnor - Member
you will get ignorant uninformed views spouted on internet forums.

I see a response there by Brailsford - which doesn't really refute anything she said.

I suppose, but by refuting what she's said are they calling her a liar? Maybe they feel it's best for her to get it off her chest and leave it. This will be forgotton amongst the Gold medal headlines.

Mike - druidh has dealt with the first bit of irony. But the second point about passion. What is the link between (alleged) dispassionate team selection and the passion required to perform. Different things entirely, surely?

Why does he need to refute anything. He picked what he considered to be the best team and we won gold. The Olympics is not a place where you take a punt to reward people for years of faithful service, it's where you do your best, no matter whether that means one person doesn't get what they want. If they'd put her in the semi and they had been knocked out, who would have been happy with Brailsford saying "Oh, we put Wendy in as even though she's not the best, we wanted her to get a medal"

It's awful for her personally but I'm happier seeing the UK medal haul than seeing us being plucky losers.