[Closed] Teachers striking again!!!!!

Oh you did the joint Ed. Studies thing?

Yeah, one hour a week of Ed theory in years 1 and 2, combined with undergrad courses in physics and maths. All the quantum mechanics stood me in good stead for teaching Y5 🙄

I did 4 terms of primary after graduating and then ran for the hills. Did a MSc in IT and moved to 6th form teaching.

Sadly, julianwilson, there is no irony.
Mike, you're not winning me over, infact quite the opposite.

Mike, you're not winning me over, infact quite the opposite.

I'm not trying to.

don simon - Member

Sadly, julianwilson, there is no irony.

indeed.

1) Someone posted an article from America on here a few months ago about how we support who we support whatever happens. (bit blunt, but the idea was that basically if you are raised a lefty you will always find fault with the righties and default to voting lefty because at the very least you consider them the best of a bad lot.)

So by that reckoning, Cameron would have to be outed as the leader of a crypto-fascist chicken-worrying ring before you get put off voting Conservative. (Or against Labour under FTPT 😉 )

2) There is a lot going on right now that wasn't in Lib Dem or Conservative manifestos just 13 months ago. [edit] I will not be at all suprised when someone posts up all the things noolab did 'out of manifesto' within a year of election/re-election, they were just as, errrr, 'driven'. [/edit]

I wouldn't bother reading the manifestos next time either: just vote with your heart. 😕

As a former banker and now teacher

Indeed we can unite behind that which ever way we argue it he done it.

Farmer john even if i accept all you have said as true it would simply demonstrate that government policy exacerbated the problem caused by the banking sector not that they caused it in the first place. It in no way whatsoever supports your assertion that banking did not cause the problem – any evidence to support that claim?
Essentially you have just repeated your claim/view with no additional information

the idea was that basically if you are raised a lefty you will always find fault with the righties and default to voting lefty because [b]at the very least you consider them the best of a bad lot[/b].

The bit in bold is the heart of liberal market-based political competition by the way.

Farmer_John - Member

The point is that in a period of strong economic growth, there was no need to move into deficit in the first place!

Really ? So how come during almost the entire period the Tories were in power, under both Thatcher and John Major, and they ran a deficit then ?

The Tories even ran a deficit throughout the entire time they were in power in the 1950s. A period which saw the most rapid growth Britain had ever experienced, and one in which the Tory election slogan was "You've never had it so good".

The reality is that there have only been four short periods since WW2 when Britain hasn't had a deficit. Three of them occurred under Labour governments. Only once since the end of WW2 has there been no deficit under a Tory government - despite the fact that the Tories have been power most of that time.

So explain that to me Farmer_John ?

Although I won't be holding my breath as I wait for you to answer.........you appear to very conveniently ignore the 'inconvenient truth'.

"There was no need" not that they didn't. A bit of continuity please, ernie.

I've just noticed this Farmer_John :

Germany being a particularly good case in point - we went into the recession carrying the largest deficit of any country as a proportion of GDP.

This was the situation when Britain went into recession in 2008 :

[img] [/img]

indeed ernie - its amazing how many folk swallow the propaganda.

deficit != debt

Ernie - periods of strong economic growth are usually used to bring deficits down (as was the case with Thatcher / Major).

What happened under Gordon Brown was that even in what were very "good" years with a boom, the debt actually increaced. And now that the boom has gone, we've got the debt, lower tax receipts and long term public spending commitments (including areas such as non funded pension schemes) that make it very difficult for the current government to do very much about it.

If you compare the UK to other major economies in the same period you'll find that we were almost alone in increasing debt through the "boom" years.

What's your point aracer ........that the UK public finances weren't healthy when compared to other simular economies ?

Ernie - periods of strong economic growth are usually used to bring deficits down (as was the case with Thatcher / Major).

So how come they couldn't stop us from plunging into deficit in the early 1990s then ?

You do realise what a "recession" is don't you ? You do realise that they create "deficits" don't you ? You do realise that the world has just gone through the worst recession in about 70 years don't you ?

What's your point aracer

here's an alternative view of the deficit - what were the bankers up to during the "boom" period of 2002-2007 then that would explain the growth:

[img] [/img]

So how come during almost the entire period the Tories were in power, under both Thatcher and John Major, and they ran a deficit then ?

That it's quite ridiculous to try and disprove a statement about deficit by posting data on debt.

Bollox is it. The deficit bears a direct relation to the public debt.

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8473705/UK-has-third-biggest-budget-deficit-in-Europe.html ]Here's a look at how we stand in Europe on deficit rather than debt[/url] - it's nice to know we're not running the biggest deficit - those economic powerhouses Ireland and Greece are a bit worse than us.

Farmer john you failed to post up any evidence again to show that it was not the bankers wot done it. So is it third time lucky or should I just assume you have no evidence to support your claim and it is indeed BS

aracer it was clever of farmer john to use deficit and not debt but IME most folk dont realise the difference.
Debt is everything we owe d andefecit is what we owe this year or overspend on this year's budget
We did have a higher defecit that Germany but lower debt hence why the farmer picked that as his stat rather than debt.
Either way it is fair to say the difference between our econmomy and germany's is not just the defecit or debt. It is simplistic to isolate one factor and use that to explain the success of one over the other.
Your link aracer also points out that

Aside from the bald debt and deficit figures, the UK's situation is strengthened by the fact that much British sovereign debt is long-term, which means the UK does not have to raise huge sums of money imminently

Is that a question from a GCSE economics paper?

OK, unable to deal with the unpalatable truth that only once since the end of WW2 has there been no deficit under a Tory government - despite the fact that the Tories have been power most of that time, you've decided to resort to playing silly buggers.

.......I'll think I'll go and let my pigeons out.......I'll love watching them fly up high in the sky 8)

EDIT : I've just seen your link aracer.........couldn't you find one which backs up Farmer_John claim that we went into the recession carrying the largest deficit of any country as a proportion of GDP then ? 😀

The deficit bears a direct relation to the public debt.

Suggesting that having a low debt on a single date proves [b]anything[/b] about the level of our deficit is what's bollox.

unable to deal with the unpalatable truth that only once since the end of WW2 has there been no deficit under a Tory government

you've decided to resort to playing silly buggers

Suggesting that having a low debt on a single date proves anything about the level of our deficit is what's bollox

Suggesting that having a low debt on a single date proves anything about the level of our deficit is what's bollox.

Hardly bollox. To suggest that low tax returns due to, amongst other things, direct politically motivated government policy, somehow suggests that the government spent excessively, is bollox. Well imo anyway. Really must get out and deal with my pigeons 🙂

EDIT : [i]"I missed the fact you were lying about that as well"[/i] 😀

[img] [/img]

it suggests the deficit is lower than the debt

To suggest that low tax returns due to, amongst other things, direct politically motivated government policy, somehow suggests that the government spent excessively, is bollox

Surely the other key issue on the the spending gap is what you're spending it on!

If you're investing your way out of recession - eg. using the money to build infrastructure like roads and railways and stimulating manufacturing, then its a hell of a difference from spending all that money keeping public sector workers pushing paper round in circles at £30k in regional offices to prevent them going on the jobless total (Child tax credits administration for example) - in which case you're just pissing it up the wall.

how could the defecit by higher than the debt?
Oh there wil be some conuluted way wont there??
FFS the wink meant it was a light hearted comment 🙄

Zulu - like the tories spending it all on benefits keeping a large proportion of the population out of work and doing nothing useful?

.couldn't you find one which backs up Farmer_John claim that we went into the recession carrying the largest deficit of any country as a proportion of GDP then ?

FFS the wink meant it was a light hearted comment

(if you started with reserves rather than debt)

ernie - congratulations on posting a graph which disproves both of your points

aracer - usa? Japan?

aracer - usa? Japan?

Japan however has huge debt.

Japan however has huge debt.

Were we? I thought you were making stuff up on ideological grounds.

The debt and the deficit the UK has is not unsustainable contrary to the tory propaganda. It is not good - but growth would reduce it where as austerity measures that they have taken will and are increasing it.

Still - they have always been economic illiterates the tories with their low growth, high inflation, high unemployment and high debt and deficit.

I thought you were making stuff up on ideological grounds

It is not good

Maybe - but we were discussing the economic measure the UK [b]is outside the safe bounds of. [/b]

See the words at the top of that graph up there, TJ - you're seriuously suggesting that we can maintain a 12%+ deficit without any problems?

completely arbitrary limit. Nothing to do with safety. I doubt anything will explode and at other points in the cycle other countries have been well over the 3 % limit

makes you wonder what the norweigens are pissing about at doesnt it.

and I still dont get why the short term problem needs this long term solution.

aracer - Member

See the words at the top of that graph up there, TJ - you're seriuously suggesting that we can maintain a 12%+ deficit without any problems?

12%? 6% according to your graph you posted.

And yes - we can run a a large deficit for a short time so long as the money is being used usefully - as it was up until the Tories started cutting. Its only a short term thing until growth picked up or it would have been without the disastrous economically illiterate tories in charge

Norway? using he oil money wisely