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as has been shown by this thread it really depends on the quality of the people who do the jobs
Although an important differentiating factor is that trade unions are democratic organisations. Elections can remove a rubbish union rep, no such mechanism exists for managers.......specially if they're the guvnor's son, or shagging his daughter.
Of course often union members are left with a useless rep because no one wants to do the job, or management sacks the effective rep, or whatever. But the mechanism exists. Too often people forget that trade unions represent among the most, if not the most, democratic institutions in our society.
[i]Not quite b r, as an agency we charge for providing a service. If you don't use that service it costs you nothing. Quite simple really and as a result we get exactly £0 nothing from the taxpayer, all our costs are met with revenue generated by the agency.[/i]
Hmm, still not answered the question - do I have a choice of providers for the service your agency provides, or must I come to you?
A bit like the planning department in my local council, I'm sure they could claim that they aren't a cost to the taxpayer, but they have a monopoly and when I submit plans (which I must if I want to build) I have to pay their rate.
Ernie - I mean that many of the views expressed and the combatant approach to issues is more like the head-to-head clashes of the 70s and 80s than a more tempered and reasoned approach I would hope for today. Your view that I am management is an interesting one and demonstrates your class warrior and tired stance as the defender of the downtrodden proles more than my inability to articulate my position with clarity.
I don't say that unions were a good idea in the last century at all. You put words in my mouth whilst evidently frothing from yours. I fully support the principle of unions - but most all union officials approach issues with your clenched-fist, no change, workers rights attitude. I have engaged with superb union officials in the past, but for some reason those I kept tabs on became disillusioned with the way their higher officials didn't move with the times. I only reflect on their experiences having never had the chance to join a union myself.
Shouldn't you be doing the night shift down t'pit or in t'mill?
but most all union officials approach issues with your clenched-fist, no change, workers rights attitude.
Never met one like that in many years of union activism
Your view that I am management is an interesting one and demonstrates your class warrior and tired stance as the defender of the downtrodden proles more than my inability to articulate my position with clarity.
It demonstrates that I have read your posts. The hint is here : [i]"I take it from you comments that you are part of management"[/i]. I suggest that you work on articulating your position with greater clarity if you are giving out the wrong impression.
Although having said that, I am perfectly happy to be called a "class warrior" if you feel you need to do that. My sole motivation in politics is to argue for a better deal for ordinary working people, I'm not interested in anything else and it's not something I'm ashamed of. Nor is a stance I'm ever likely to get "tired" of.
I don't say that unions were a good idea in the last century at all. You put words in my mouth.....
I didn't put any words in your mouth - I copied and pasted the ones which you had posted. What's this mean then [i]"Unions - a great idea stuck firmly in the last century"[/i] ? If I misunderstood perhaps you can clarify?
I fully support the principle of unions
No you don't - you think all union reps have a big chip on their shoulder and they all quote meaningless references from memory. If you really support trade unions then tell me why you think they're such a good idea. Up 'til now all you've done is slagged them off.
BTW your need to rely on childish comments such as [i]"Shouldn't you be doing the night shift down t'pit or in t'mill?"[/i] shows how weak your argument is. And it gives the impression of you being a jumped up arrogant and immature manager. Which is probably what you are.
TooTall - last time you or your mate think about buying a bike from me!
The only thing worse than right wing biggots hiding behind the coat tails of the rich and powerful is right wing biggots who lack insight as to their own nature, not to mention their place in history.
Rubbish forum coding....
The only thing worse than right wing biggots hiding behind the coat tails of the rich and powerful is right wing biggots who lack insight as to their own nature, not to mention their place in history.
Dekadense - this is either a very clever post or a very stupid one, its difficult to tell.
[u]Bi[b]g[/b]otry is an unpleasant characteristic in anyone,[/u] but you insertion of bias towards right wing is in itself an example of bigotry. So aren't you falling into the same trap as the one you accuse Too Tall of?
The joy of reading these threads on SWT is to watch when mere confirmation bias spills into outright bigotry. It happens regularly on all sides.
right wing bigot
Just because something is a cliche, doesn't mean it isn't true.
I'd be happy to stand up and say that bigotry is more a characteristic of the right than the left.
Anyway, he said "biggot", which might be something nice.