[Closed] Taking the kids out of school to going skiing. Opinions?

I know a few [s]teachers[/s] parents, and have huge sympathy with them, but it's the [s]career[/s] lifestyle they chose at the end of the day.

should you expect parents to fork out an extra 2k for a holiday in order to make the teachers life a little easier and to show solidarity with them

They could always take up a less expensive hobby?

..but it's up to the parents to decide if they want their children to be taught. Simple

You are right, that is simple.

It is also however, complete and utter rubbish.

It is also however, complete and utter rubbish.

Not at 4yr old it isn't

They could always take up a less expensive hobby?

Maybe yes. But it's no business of schools or the government what hobbies I take up. The fact that inflated skiing holiday prices is the main cause of complaint is irrelevant.

nealglover - Member

..but it's up to the parents to decide if they want their children to be taught. Simple

You are right, that is simple.

It is also however, complete and utter rubbish.

Why is it rubbish?

Who give them right to dictate to you about how you educate your children? Are we communists now?

Are you responsible for your children education? If you wish them not to be educated then that is your choice is it not?

🙄

Why is it rubbish? Who give them right to dictate to you about how you educate your children? Are we communists now?

Because schools are not for learning or enlightenment, they're for churning out economic producers and taxpayers.

dazh - Member

Why is it rubbish? Who give them right to dictate to you about how you educate your children? Are we communists now?

Because schools are not for learning or enlightenment, they're for churning out economic producers and taxpayers.

Yes, they are conveyer belt for mass production but that does not extend their rights to that of a private life style. If you are fee paying then they certainly do not have the rights to dictate your future good or bad.

My parents have a small shop in a seaside town, if the hadn't taken us out of school in June / September every year by brother and I would have never of gone on a summer holiday with them (and they certainly could not have afforded a winter holiday abroad). 80% of the the shops income comes during school holiday time so they couldn't just shut it for a week as they would go bust.
It wasn't a problem when we were growing up and the school was very flexible, now the school doesn't have a choice to be flexible so my brother who now runs the family shop will need to pay the fines or his kids will never go on holiday.

It never did me any harm, well at least much less harm then never having a summer holiday with my parents. Doing it to save a few pounds on a skiing holiday is not really the same thing but I'd still agree with it.
Like many other things in life, decent people all get dragged down to the lowest common denominator by the few that take this piss.

Why is it rubbish?

Because it's not true.

Who give them right to dictate to you about how you educate your children?

The law

Are we communists now?

No.

Are you responsible for your children education?

Yes

If you wish them not to be educated then that is your choice is it not?

No.

nealglover - Member

Why is it rubbish?

Because it's not true.

Or because you have given up your rights?

Who give them right to dictate to you about how you educate your children?

The law

Yes, because individuals have given up rights to be responsible by letting the state dictate/responsible for their life style. You vote for it you now tighten your own neck.

Are we communists now?

No.

But it sounds exactly like one because the state take over the "caring" of your children.

Are you responsible for your children education?

Yes

But you seem to want to dictate your views on others too why so? Chill man ... that's their children.

If you wish them not to be educated then that is your choice is it not?

No.

It is hypothetical as in if you don't want your children to eat rubbish food at school do you have a say even if the rubbish food is detrimental to your children future health?

Who give them right to dictate to you about how you educate your children?

The law only states that a child must be educated, it doesn't state have to send them to a school. If parents [i]choose[/i] to send their child to a state school then it is not unreasonable to expect the parents to abide by the rules.

You'd think that expensive holidays during the school holidays was a new phenomena and not something that has been the case for decades and an inevitable consequence of the economic system that we choose to have.

The OP is right. Let's have more free-thinking individuals who are prepared to Stick it to the Man by taking skiing holidays whenever they feel like it.

I love reading the squabbles of the middle classes

gonefishin - Member
The law only states that a child must be educated, it doesn't state have to send them to a school. If parents choose to send their child to a state school then it is not unreasonable to expect the parents to abide by the rules.

Just to avoid playing with words I equate going to school/home schooling as in educating.

Yes, yes, law and human rights etc ... Yes, if it is state school i.e. non-fee paying then you abide by their rules because you get it for "free" and you are on their terms. That I agree. If you are fee paying then i.e. not loan or borrow from govt, then individual freedom should be up hold.

You'd think that expensive holidays during the school holidays was a new phenomena and not something that has been the case for decades and an inevitable consequence of the economic system that we choose to have.

Yes, holidays are expensive. As a kid I never traveled away for holiday in my entire life except visiting and staying with my grandparents. Not even once did we have holidays so it is rather alien to me that children need to go for holiday to be honest. It is a western concept that is catching up rather quickly with the affluence people in the far east nowadays.

but my view is that people/society has given too much power to the state.

Chewkw,

Your version of "how I want things to be"

isn't the same as the real world version of "how things actually are"

But you need to understand, I based my answers on "the real world"

Rather than your version of reality.

Hope that helps.

nealglover - Member

Chewkw,

Your version of "how I want things to be"

isn't the same as the real world version of "how things actually are"

But you need to understand, I based my answers on "the real world"

Rather than your version of reality.

Hope that helps.

You are absolutely right.

It is really scary to see the entire society sleep walks into giving up their individual freedom for bureaucratic control.

Bear in mind you have fought hard (your ancestors) for centuries for freedom yet I have noticed increasingly the state/authority is gaining more power because we "collectively" decide one size fits all or because we are so stress/tense that we give up our own freedom. Yes, freedom has limitation but at the moment I think we are given them up bits by bits.

😯

edit:

Sancho - Member

I love reading the squabbles of the middle classes

Nothing to do with middle classes here but rather the individual freedom to take responsibility of their lifestyle. Some rich some poor and I am definitely not the former but to me education is important and definitely not letting the state dictate my learning and knowledge.

sleep walks into giving up their individual freedom for bureaucratic control

I find I have all the freedom I need.

I also have quite a lot of protection that's been gained by limiting certain "freedoms" in general.

I went on two skiing trips with my school. Both were in term time, no lessons just skiing. Can't see how that was right and going with your family is somehow wrong ?

nealglover - Member

sleep walks into giving up their individual freedom for bureaucratic control

I find I have all the freedom I need.

Of course you do but it is slowly being chipped away bits by bits and by the time you feel it you are stuck.

I also have quite a lot of protection that's been gained by limiting certain "freedoms" in general.

That's the problem. Protection and freedom. i.e. your protection might be someone else restriction. Where do you draw the line?

LOL at taxi25 - away with your sensible observations 🙂

Don't we go over this every year?

I went on two skiing trips with my school. Both were in term time, no lessons just skiing. Can't see how that was right and going with your family is somehow wrong ?

Freebie for the teachers so definitely right 😉

Anyway, no one at our school ever had trips like that, best I remember was Robin Hood's Bay looking at rock formations and groping Beverly Crawford on the bus home.

No read the thread but have this conversation with people regularly. Its just middle class people trying to justify taking their kids out of school. If skiing is so important take them in the holidays, if not you can't afford it so don't go. Same people who'll condemn poor people for taking kids out to go to Magluf in summer.

In both cases its about saving money and nothing else. The only difference is that for those poor families its probably their only chance of a holiday as a family. For the skiers its just a way to do their hobby on the cheap.

Surely you already know the answer to this? If your kids will struggle missing the week then it's a no. If you can help them make it up, then do it in heartbeat.

The problem is that some parents who didn't care about their kids education abused the rules, and so all schools lost sensible discretion.

That said, there is no right to a cheap holiday, only a right to time off work/school. Kids are only in school something like 190 days a year out of 365. If you can't afford the holiday you want in school holidays, find a cheaper holiday or save up for longer.

And when their school trips are hitting £300 a pop, family holidays get scaled back even more 🙄

Yes, if it is state school i.e. non-fee paying then you abide by their rules because you get it for "free" and you are on their terms.

Sorry but that's rubbish. It's still none of the state's business if I want to take my kids on holiday at a time of my choosing as long it doesn't affect their long term development, which is my prerogative to judge. I couldn't care less if they have SATs or whatever, or if it impacts the school's ratings in silly league tables.

For the skiers its just a way to do their hobby on the cheap.

Too right. Why wouldn't I want to make it cheaper? Is there any other area where some arbitrary and largely ineffectual policy costs individuals so much? I'm not trying to dress it up, I want to take my kids skiing and if I can save 2k by doing it in term time then why wouldn't I want to do that?

Taking my 4 yr old son out of school in 2 weeks time to go skiing. He can't wait. He does French in school and will be able to put it in to practice.

Plus he is at private school, and there are not the same restrictions as state... Not sure why to be honest?

I wouldn't take my kids out of school for holidays and I don't give a shit what other parents do with their kids

Of course you do but it is slowly being chipped away bits by bits and by the time you feel it you are stuck.

It's a good job you are here to bang on about it all the time then so us sheeple dont get in too deep 🙄

I also have quite a lot of protection that's been gained by limiting certain "freedoms" in general.

That's the problem. Protection and freedom. i.e. your protection might be someone else restriction. Where do you draw the line?

I'm quite happy to be protected from certain people by the laws that our Evil Overlords have forced on us.

And back on the subject at hand.

I'm also quite happy to be protected from having a future generation of unemployable illiterate numpties running around because our Evil Overlords decided it should be a legal requirement for parents to provide an education for their children.

Hard to beat

thestabiliser - Member
This year a weeks skiing, what next year? It's a slippery slope.

Boom, tish.

Ultimately what code do you want your kids to learn? "Me, myself, I" or "respect" ?

>I believe that taking her out was a net benefit to her. That's my honest "justification" to myself and I wouldn't have done it if I thought otherwise.<

Bullsh1t.

You took her out because it was clearly a £net benefit to you.

The problem is that some parents who didn't care about their kids education abused the rules, and so all schools lost sensible discretion.

Exactly. Despite people saying this isn't a new thing, the bit about automatically reporting parents and fining them is (a Gove-ism I believe).

When we were all growing up the schools could exercise sensible discretion, as several posters have described. I think there was a default assumption that parents would want to do what was best for their kids unless they demonstrated otherwise. Whereas now the assumption seems to be that all parents are ****less idiots that kids must be protected from.

In both cases its about saving money and nothing else.

I don't think anyone is denying that. Going at half term can add two grand to the cost, compared to going to the same place a week earlier. That's the difference between it being expensive and too ridiculously expensive to consider.

I'm also quite happy to be protected from having a future generation of unemployable illiterate numpties running around

As above, we didn't have these restrictions growing up. Is our generation full of unemployable illiterate numpties?

As above, we didn't have these restrictions growing up.

Bullsh1t.
You took her out because it was clearly a £net benefit to you.

Nope.

If the choice was "we can go this week or in half term when it costs a couple of grand more" then that would be true (and a still a bloody good reason)

But our choice was "go the week before half term or we can't go" so at that point it was a simple weighing up of "what will she gain from a week of skiing versus what will she lose from missing five half days of colouring in dinosaur pictures".

The skiing won by a tight margin. But we did make her do some extra colouring in the evenings to make sure she didn't fall behind.

Haven't read the rest of the thread, but at least part of my life is dedicated to teaching in a sixth form, on top of which I have a number of kids of my own in school, and I say 'go skiing'.

I think you will find fewer people went abroad on thier holidays so it wasn't so much of an issue.

Indeed but surely the UK holiday prices increased too?
I guess overall demand for holidays is probably higher these days due to increases in disposable income etc, so that inflates the costs.

The crux of it for me is what it is you think you are teaching your child. To me it says "I can get what I want even if I can't afford it":

Hmmm what lessons does it teach to say to your child "Yes I know we went skiing last year but now you are in school so we can't"

Will that help them enjoy school or encourage them to see it as the enemy?

What lesson does it teach to say: "Mum and dad think this rule is daft but we must always submit to absolute rule and never question anything"

People like me may have caused the financial crash. But it is people like you that let the nazis in. Enjoy the new world order. 😉

As above, we didn't have these restrictions growing up. Is our generation full of unemployable illiterate numpties

I was talking about chewkw's strange notion that it should be a parents a parents choice wether they educate their children at all, and not decided by "beurocrats"

Oooh, Godwin!

I fully understand the arguments for taking kids out of school. We have two ourselves. But we also knew the financial consequences of having them and what it would mean for our ability to afford holidays.

Our kids understand that we have cheap holidays because we can't afford to do more expensive ones in the school holidays. And that is partly because their sport and music clubs cost us about the same each year as a weeks skiing. They get to take part in the discussions about time and finances, and have not yet said that they feel that their lack of foreign skiing or a Mediterranean sun tan is a problem.

They also know that a lot of their friends who do get more expensive holidays have parents struggling to get any work/life/family balance in order to afford it.

Edit: God I sound like a sanctimonious arse when I read that back 🙄

But [b][i]I[/i][/b] respect you MCTD 😛

Sounds a healthy approach MCTD and we'll probably get the kids involved in decisions like that at some point in the future but at four and one they're not quite ready yet.

They also know that a lot of their friends who do get more expensive holidays have parents struggling to get any work/life/family balance in order to afford it.

Absolutely. Missus and I are lucky enough to be in above-average-pay careers, but we've also both elected to go part-time for those work/life/family reasons so disposable income is considerably less disposable than it was in those halcyon DINKY days of yore. 🙂

Hence why a couple of grand matters!

(Besides I had to make sure there was enough left in the pot for my boy's trip to Whistler 😈 )

I bet that at four and one their annual skiing trip is top priority when discussing issues with their peers in nursery 😉

My sister, a teacher, tells me the date of her schools prelim exams were set only once the dates of the school ski holiday week had been set. First things first. The ski week is the first thing in the diary.

So if the school thinks taking kids out of school in term time for a school ski trip is OK I can't see an issue with parents taking their children skiing.

dood, at 4 and 1 it's not even a question - DEFINITELY take them in school time !

although if your boy's having a trip to Whistler ( 😉 ), I'd suggest you have more cash than morecashthandash

My boy isn't old enough to be taken out of school yet, however, when he is and there's an opportunity to do something of some cultural/social/intellectual benefit, then we shall take him out of school if the need arises.

So, our boy will be state educated as neither of us believe in the entitled/elitism that goes hand-in-hand with fee paying private schools. This means he'll be subjected to the waffle known as how-to-pass-your-GCSE's known as the National Curriculum. Pretty much every single state educated student at a university has a pretty tough lesson to learn that they have to actually think for themselves and you know, figure it out.

With that in mind, will a holiday cycling / skiing / kayaking in Canada / camping / travelling in Europe, etc etc etc be of greater benefit to a child than sitting in a class for 10 days? I most definitely think so.

If there academic performance is compromised by a week away, use a small percentage of the money saved to get extra tuition to catch up if you're not capable of imparting the knowledge yourself.

I'm astounded at some of the closed minded attitudes. For those suggesting that one must adhere to the strict rules enforced by a school about attendance, I jolly well expect you to be adhering to the speed limits if you're out in the car late at night or fully conforming to corporate policy at all times. When I am sure that you might speed a little when you judge it safe to do so, or you might work in a way that slightly contravenes your corporate guidelines so long as it suits you and gets the job done.