[Closed] TA Cuts!

More like TA; CUT.

not safe to join these days

get no where near enough training and then sent somewhere where people shoot at you

duty of care = fail

as usual all the available money will prop up the non-deployable overhead and the poor saps who join now could do less than 30 days training before getting called up.

poor saps who join now could do less than 30 days training before getting called up.

Which exposes the blatant lie that Britain is only in Afghanistan to "help" the Afghan army.

For nine years Britain has been training the Afghan National Army to fight the very poorly equipped and even more badly trained Taliban. But despite that, we still have to send our untrained young men to help them. Young men who have quite possibly only held a gun for the first in their lives a few weeks earlier.

The real truth is that we are still in Afghanistan because we are propping up a corrupt government which has no support. It's got **** all to do with bringing "democracy" and yet another example of Tony Blair's many lies.

If you deploy in a frontline role you'll get three months full time pre-deployment training with the regular Army and only if you are good enough will you go.
TA soldiers haven't been called up for years - mobilisation is voluntary and most regular units will only accept TA deplying with them if they come up to their standards.

Yup, frontline deployment training is very good - my brother is in the TA has recently been deployed - to me it seems like he's had non stop training for as long as I can remember. I'm also pretty impressed by the kit that he got supplied too.

nickname - you need to write a letter to the Sun asap and tell them !

TA soldiers haven't been called up for years - mobilisation is voluntary and most regular units will only accept TA deplying with them if they come up to their standards.

they have been compulsory mobilised since gulf war 2

sub-units have been mobilised individually (a platoon out of a company, company out of a battalion etc)

the lower your rank the more likely you are to get mobilised

if you didn't want to go you just cracked a tooth/ lost a filling, they are to tight to pay for the dentistry and send you home

pre operations training assumes that you are of a basic standard to start with I would suggest 11 days a year does not get you there

the number of days training before boots on the ground in Helmand will be less than a regular recruit does before he gets to his unit prior to pre-deployment training

(ernie_lynch is an apologist for the IRA who shot and blew up reg and TA alike so I don't know why he cares)

The real truth is that we are still in Afghanistan because we are propping up a corrupt government which has no support. It's got **** all to do with bringing "democracy" and yet another example of Tony Blair's many lies.

Tony Blair lying I can accept, the rest is bollox.

So a partial 🙄 from me.

ernie_lynch is an apologist for the IRA who shot and blew up reg and TA alike

Thanks. But I post my own opinions on here. So there is really no need to do it on my behalf.

.

And btw ............... I haven't a clue what you're ****ing talking about. I have a long and unbroken track record of total and complete opposition to the armed struggle in Ireland. I have always and consistently argued that change in NI should only come about through democratic action, and not through the vicious anti-people actions of hooded thugs. It is a position which I maintain, along with my complete opposition to the continued criminal activities of Provisional IRA.

I presume that your comment is the product of a simplistic mind which subscribes to the George Bush "School of Thought", ie [i]"You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror."[/i]

The same simplistic mind which would have denounced John Major for his courageous decision to talk directly to the Provisional IRA. The same simplistic mind which shouts ****wit comments such as "No Surrender to the IRA". The same simplistic mind which delayed the peace process in Northern Ireland for so long, and prolonged the unnecessary suffering of it's people.

What we have now (and have had for a few years) is known as intelligent mobilisation, you volunteer to go then they mobilise you (its a way of getting round pay problems amongst other things). Its been a few years since anyone got an unexpected brown envelope through the letter box.

[i] The same simplistic mind which would have denounced John Major for his courageous decision to talk directly to the Provisional IRA. The same simplistic mind which shouts ****wit comments such as "No Surrender to the IRA". The same simplistic mind which delayed the peace process in Northern Ireland for so long, and prolonged the unnecessary suffering of it's people.[/i]

So how do you propose we deal with the recent up-surge in violence, the re-arming of IRA/Real IRA, attempted proxy bomb in Strabane the other night etc. Defeat of the IRA is as simplistic as peace with them. Ulster will always be troubled. Wish that it was different.

I have a long and unbroken track record of total and complete opposition to the armed struggle in Ireland. I have always and consistently argued that change in NI should only come about through democratic action, and not through the vicious anti-people actions of hooded thugs. It is a position which I maintain, along with my complete opposition to the continued criminal activities of Provisional IRA.

my comment comes from your previous posting on STW1 which are no longer available where you made it clear that you supported the violent actions of those who didn't support the political arrangements at the time and the rule of the british government in NI

if you can't remember what stupid/trolling posts you put on here that's your problem

if you can't remember what I post don't give me a

simplistic mind

you don't know my view on NI nor my connection to it. I know yours from your own keyboard.

The MOD decided (after ****ing up so many lives during GW11) that the TA would no longer be mobilised en masse.
Individual soldiers with "pinchpoint" skills could still be compulsory mobilised and the rest could be mobilised through "intelligent" mobilisation.
I have done some instruction with the TA after my regular service and I believe this to be the governments attempt to get rid.
This will be bad for the Army overall, reg and STAB.

and I believe this to be the governments attempt to get rid.

at 11 days a year there is no bounty, any equipment unit will not be able to keep it's fleet on the road and therefore not be able to train

add in a couple of day's a year for "PR" there isn't a lot to maintain skills and get people to a standard to be promoted/ safe to go forward to a deployment

essentially it amounts to mothballing the TA, it will be interesting to see if the RMR are going to do the same

"intelligent" mobilisation is that they look at your personal record before you get the compulsory notice, ensures you mobilise either the willing or the easy (no kids, crap job)

Hmmmm, old TA unit was also more or less RMR also (I'm sure you can guess). I was doing some DSing at Lympestone.
My impression of intelligent mobilisation that it was pretty much a volunteer basis but with the added employment protection.

plenty of people were getting unwelcome letters for the later Telic's (IIRC) and I know there was a selection process

EDIT poor choice of words. I love my job, life and mrs BH.

my comment comes from your previous posting

You are either, mistaken, confused, or lying. My position on the armed struggle in NI has never changed. I have always opposed it. Whether it was against civilian targets, or whether it was against "legitimate military targets". My position was no different one month ago, one year ago, or ten years ago.

If I believed that Provos campaign of violence had been justified, then I would say so now. It is completely pointless to deny something which you believe in. Furthermore, if I had been keen to express my support for Provos previously on here as you allege, then it would make no sense at all for me not to repeat it now.

I repeat, you are either, mistaken, confused, or lying. And how very convenient for you that the post which you claim to be referring to is "no longer available". Why ....... you can make as many wild and unfounded allegations as you wish, on that basis ..... can't you ?

And of course I could do the same. In fact, I think I'll make a few allegations myself now. I reckon you're probably an ex-army slopehead who's cretinous mind automatically assumes that anyone who supports the nationalist community, or was anyway at all, opposed to past British government policies in NI, is a Provisional IRA supporter. And you personally probably supported Loyalist paramilitary murders. And maybe the BNP as well. All based of stuff that you posted on the old forum which unfortunately I can't dig out now.

How's that ?

I think you are a troll

oh look there's the evidence above

That's funny, cause I reckon you're a troll - making as you do, wild allegations which you very "conveniently" can't back up. Nice work mate

Perhaps ernie we are all opposed to everyone's policies in N.Ireland as none of them are a panacea for peace. As (branded) as an Ulster Protestant I would welcome a united Ireland tomorrow, everyone should have a say and we should all live in peace and harmony. The truth is that that is never going to happen - a united Ireland would financially sink the Republic (some would argue that's a good thing)and besides an armed struggle, probably sponsored by the Americans (again!), would develop for separatists in Ulster.

The best thing to happen would be to give the peace a real long term chance. Decades not a few years. As someone who lived through and with some of the worst of the violence I simply feel sorry for everyone - I struggled for years to get used to soldiers not being on the streets, that was 'normality' for me. It irks somewhat that our elected representatives are the people (on both sides) that I understood to be bad/wrong.

Basically you have a lot of people with some very long memories.

Er, don't understand a lot of this TA stuff but if, as people are saying, they have to volunteer to be mobilised then surely the whole things a waste of time and taxpayers money.

I mean, we could pay a guy for years and years then if we have a war he can just say '**** that I'm not going'.

Doesn't that just make it the Scouts for grown-ups?

Er, don't understand a lot of this TA stuff

*It might not be a war.

Britain is financially and morally broke, its time for change and time for action. Let your vote count, Gordon Brown cant put off an election for ever, he can run but he can't hide.

Was just going on what had been said further up the thread and it seemed wrong to pay people for years of training in the TA if they had no obligation to go fight when necessary.

Mebbe I'm a fool but I always thought that was the point of the TA, rather than an opportunity for some to do soldiering until the need to do it for real appears then they can refuse to go.

I mean, we could pay a guy for years and years then if we have a war he can just say '**** that I'm not going'.

I think most of them join up because they want to serve these days (but don't want to commit to joining the army full time).

My lad served in Iraq with the TA, they asked for volunteers, he volunteered. He did one tour. Many of his mates have done several tours.

As has been said, they get 3 months training prior to the tour.

It could well be they've cut training because most of the TA are seasoned veterans these days. Does seem odd on the face of it though. Without the TA the regulars would be ****ed.

Thanks for that 5thElefant, I wasn't trying to put anyone down or be sarcastic, was genuinely confused by some of what had been said in the thread.

****ing braver than me, that's for sure.

No worries, I think that was the case a few years ago but any big boy scouts that did exist left pretty damn quick and were replaced by a different lot. New recruits are under no illusions that they're not going to go to war.

That was the point of the OP - TA cuts will be bad enough but the impact on regulars could be immense. Very short-sighted IMHO

Yep, as I said it does seem odd.

I'd like to think they know something we don't, like all the TA are now battle hardened. I'd like to think we invaded Iraq for a good reason (like securing oil fields) but they've kept it quiet. I'd like to think we're in Afghanistan for a good reason (can't come up with one off the top of my head).

Yeah, you're right. They're ****ing idiots. I wonder if the new lot of ****ing idiots will be any better?

There's only one reason that they've cut training. Actually I think it's around 20 million reasons.
It's going to be very difficult if even possible to rebuild the STABS after this.

Perhaps it's time for a Singletrack political party?!

Could you imagine the in-fighting, sulking and taking everything the wrong way?! LOL!

Look it's not stabs ok, always bloody resented that remark sodding arabs. 😛

And as already said it's usually individuals that are sent out nowadays.

I've been out of the loop for a few years now but i do get asked to go back in, financially i can't but if i could i wouldn't have a problem with it, it's what i signed up for anyway if anything i rather enjoyed it, sodding hard work being beasted around though.

Irony is im now fitter out of the ta than i was in.

Perhaps it's time for a Singletrack political party?!

I'm in...... where do I send my expenses claim??

tankslapper - Member

The best thing to happen would be to give the peace a real long term chance.

Basically you have a lot of people with some very long memories.

Yep Slapper, it's just a shame that peace took so long in the making. It's a shame that people like Thatcher (and Labour governments) thought a "military solution" was achievable and all that was needed to deny the nationalists an opportunity to secure change by "political means". It's a shame that Thatcher thought the solution was to deny nationalist politicians the "oxygen of publicity" by banning the voice of Gerry Adams being broadcast .... a voice-over by an actor was the solution to Northern Ireland's problems ffs.

Luckily the Tories were able to sack Thatcher and real moves to achieving peace were able to begin. It's a shame that John Major has never received the credit which he deserves for abandoning the "military solution" and having the courage to start talking to the IRA. It's a shame that all the credit went to Tony Blair and New Labour despite the fact that it was never them who ditched 30 years of failed policies and initiated the first vital and critical moves to peace.

And yes, I have a very long memory too.

I get a little confused with the equipment argument.

On the one hand we are fighting a war. That means that we have an opposition who will use whatever techniques in their armoury to fight back. This goes hand in hand with the presumption that it will never be straightforward to win.

On the other hand we are in the middle of a recession. We have mounting debts and everyone is looking for someone else to blame.

On what grounds do people think that this country has an endless pit of money to spend on military equipment? Do we have a devine right to just buy bigger and better equipment than everyone else so we should win the war? Is none of it down to tactics and strategies? When someone gets killed it seems to be very easy to blame the lack of equipment etc. Imagine if you were a taliban extremist. Them turbans dont offer much protection but i dont hear them complaining.

Truth be told, compared to others i would be surprised if our armed forces arent deemed to be very well equipped. Yes i suspect the french & germans may be better equipped, but we arent fighting them are we. Maybe we need to look at the leaders of our armies who are blaming casualties on lack of equipment as a way of deflecting blame from their deficient orders. Sounds very much like a politican, which is what i think some of the commanders now see themselves as.

This was never ever going to be a war that had a winner and a loser. How can that happen when you are trying to make friends with the very same people at the same time as you fight them. If you wanted a cheap war with a winner/loser and without our own forces being hurt then you should have dropped a nuke. Its the only way to be sure 😉

Ah! So ernie you're really a closet Ulster man after all?

The point I was making is that I'm not completely convinced that the either the military or the political solution will/have worked - and damned if I know what would!

Ah! So ernie you're really a closet Ulster man after all?

LOL ! I ain't got a clue what you're ****ing talking about mate 😀

But in the words of that great Irish democrat James Connolly who died a martyr's death in the cause of a Free Ireland :

[b][i]"I take my religion from Rome, but I take my politics from home."[/i][/b]

Like him, I believe in free, democratic, and secular Ireland.
And also like him, I believe that :

[b][i]"The great and mighty only appear so because we are on our knees. Let us rise and be of equal stature"[/i][/b]
James Connolly 1868 - 1916

btw, did you know that James Connolly was ex-British army and married to a Protestant ?

Hi ernie

Yes I did know about Connolly - that's always been the strange thing about Ireland is that it throws up all sorts of weird and wonderful, almost incongruous situations like that.

Ronnie Bunting's (who was a founding member of the INLA) father was a British Army Major who worked for Paisley - bazaar!

I'll not even start about my own families weird past/present except to say that I agree with you to the point that any settlement must be fair to all sides in Ireland not to the victors, whoever they may be.

Still - the cuts in the TA are frankly appalling.

Yeah I'm not surprised you knew about Connolly's background Slapper, I only asked the question as an excuse to throw in the information.

I didn't know about Ronnie Bunting's background though. I guess that such extreme differences of opinion often results from complex and fraught child-parent relationships - not a rare occurrence. Plus of course "converts" tend often to take very extreme positions. I don't think that applies to Connolly though, as it was he himself, who was in the British army, and he freely chose to marry a Protestant - reaction and rebellion against oneself is not a common occurrence ! Probably much more of a learning process I suspect in Connolly's case.

What concerns me most about the TA cuts (the temporary halt of training) is the piddling savings involved ......£20 million ffs. Now if it was a substantial sum I might see some more justification for it. But surely £20 million only represents a few days operational costs in Afghanistan ?,

@LittlestHobo,

Strategy & tactics have a hell of a lot to do in a counter insurgency such as Afghanistan. We could win it (or surpress the insurgency at least) with WW2 kit but the right strategy and number of soldiers.(elevated casualty rates expected of course)

Both the strategy and the number of troops to ensure victory (I'm not really sure what that is here) are being hottly debated right now by McChrystal etc.

I suppose the White House/Downing Street and NATO need to clearly define what will consitiute a victory and then implement a plan accordingly - if only someone would supply and pay 500,000 profesional soldiers...

The 'shifting' victory aims are what will probably define this war. Was it just to remove Taliban from power? Install a democracy? Remove the Opium trade? Open Afghan up for western enterprise/companies? Stop AQ from ever hiding in Afghan again? Bring about western style womans rights, freedom of speech? etc etc etc.

With regards to the TA it is nuts pure and simple if all training is stopped for 6 months then I doubt many will return. I'm sure £20 million is a drop in the ocean to our Afghan operation and destroying your reserves that are supporting it makes no sense.

the £20million saved is a red herring, the Government simply wants to be seen to be doing 'something' the figure is frankly meaningless as you say ernie. That's meaningless within the direct costs associated with the operations theatre(s) and the cost to the country when troops return, rehabilitation, resettlement etc.

Another Labour smoke and mirrors exercise, I blame Clement Atlee...