giantalkali - Member
It's a great surname JV
The finest
People still double-barrel their names. By still, I mean it seems a fairly recent thing.
Perhaps as it becoes less aspirational, the two will get bundled back together.
My wife's McGowan. I'm Eustace. I really wanted us to both be Mc Eustace.
Mc Eustace.
..... in da house.
I really wish I'd taken on my wife's surname when we married. It means Elf Friend and sounds like something from Middle Earth. Mine is an utterly boring place name.
Used to work with a guy called Diesel. In nine years I never knew his given or surname.
A colleague of mine is on maternity leave just now, she's Mrs Carpenter so you assume that some great-great-great-great was a carpenter that started a family of carpenters... But she's not a carpenter, and her dad was a scientist, and so is she, so she wants to call the baby Mary Biochemist.
giantalkali - Member
It's a great surname JV
The finest
Is your name Tesco then?
This has been an education to me.
My mum's husband has a bowed leg, but until today I just thought it was unfortunate. Now I realise it's damn right freaky because their surname is Cruikshank!
My surname means Easter ( probably - a fair bit of debate about it)
In Scotland you often get folk with surnames for firstnames and vice versa. I know of a Campbell Dick for example
My wife was at school with Everhard and Afelia (not sure of spelling). West Indian origin and brother and sister.
Their surname was Dick...
Smith isn't derived from blacksmith. It's an old word for soldier (Smite your enemy etc).
If it was blacksmith it would be as common as Miller, Baker or their derivatives, but it's far more common.
Really interesting thread.
The answer to the OP's question is, about 1450. Which is why medieval occupations, such as Joyner, Turner, Cooper, Archer, Fletcher, Baker, Smith, Miller, Fisher, Hunter, Ryder and Weaver are used as surnames, and not later occupations.
Pre-1066, people would have been given a "by-name" (literally a "village name") to distinguish them from other villagers. This could have described their occupation (Smith, Cooper, Turner), association with family (Johnson, Davies, Simmons etc), physical characteristics (Strong, Little, Fairhead etc) or association with a place (Sturridge, Heath, Shaw, etc).
The Domesday book did not begin the practice of fixed or hereditary surnaming for commoners, however hereditary surnaming did arrive with the Normans.
Hereditary naming was a feudal custom for the nobility and bourgeoisie, designed to ensure wealth was kept in the family. To have an inherited surname therefore became a status symbol, so the custom filtered down the social orders until almost every child, rich or poor, was given their father's surname. By the 15th Century, the custom was almost universal, and surnames were therefore relatively fixed by this time.
However, to state the obvious, immigration since then has brought new surnames into our language.
There has never been any legal requirement for a child to be named after either parent.
I'm son of Fergus. Only, having gained this name from my father and he from his, I'm confident there is no Scottish blood on my paternal side.
How so? My grandfather was an immigrant who changed his Italian-sounding first name and surname when he initially settled in Scotland.
Yep my Jewish grandfather did the same. It would have been tough doing your national service with an obviously-Jewish name (or, probably, an obviously-Italian name)
Smith isn't derived from blacksmith. It's an old word for soldier (Smite your enemy etc).
Smith does, indeed, come from the Anglo Saxon "Smitan", meaning to hit. Smiths were such named because they were beaters of metal. The surname comes from the occupation. However, the commonness of the name meant it was a popular surname given to non-blacksmiths too, hence its popularity today.
I can find no reference to a derivative of "smitan" as a synonym for soldier, but I'm intrigued. Do you have more details?
I'm an Armer, presumed to be derived from 'armourer', but also of great amusement to my German ex-girlfriend, to whom it simply meant 'poor'.
My surname gets me free beer in Germany, and a fuss made of me when I meet Germans abroad. 8)
Hasselhoff?
Alas, no. Less common. More posh.
Von Richthofen?
I fear we could dominate this thread and go on for pages at this rate. 🙂
" SaxonRider - Member
My surname gets me free beer in Germany, and a fuss made of me when I meet Germans abroad. "
Hitler?
there must be some knocking about.... i know a few Adolfs, albeit of an older generation...
Once I had written what I did, I wondered how long it would take for that suggestion to come up.
Sorry, alpin, but no. And much to my disappointment, my given name is seriously anglicised. I don't like the dissonance.
Bumgardener?
Elfenstone?
Windsor?
Hasselhoff?
Hoffmeister?
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At Christmas we had a ham as well as turkey. At some point the ham got knocked off the worktop but I was able to catch it by trapping it against the cupboard with my leg (I've just about got the stains out of my trousers). My brother in law suggested that in days gone by I'd be given a name for this - I quite liked the idea of being Mr Hamcatcher and my eldest was happy with being Sam Hamcatcherson 🙂
"But you **** one goat and..."
As for hereditary Welsh names, I believe there's an ap for that.
As for hereditary Welsh names, I believe there's an ap for that.
Oh, that's good, that's [i]very[/i] good!
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I have a friend whose family surname was Onions but they changed it to Runswick (after Runswick Bay)
I think the new president should nip down to the deed poll office for an alternative (facts) surname.
Donald Fwib perhaps
I think the new president should nip down to the deed poll office for an alternative (facts) surname.
Jon Stewart has a suggestion for him 🙂