Hi,
Wondering what to wear for winter lake SUPing?
I rarely fall in but sometimes go paddling on my own. I'm currently using Peak Neoskin 3/4 leggings and a 1mm neoprene top.
I do have a Peak UK Adventure Single cag and I'm wondering if I could pair it with some dry trousers?
Cheers,
Mick
Hmm - depending on how isolated a location, I'd have thought a full-length winter wetsuit, but I have paddled in just shorts and a fleece in autumn in the past - would have been ruddy cold if I'd fallen in though!
I guess a cag and dry trousers should be okay if they are well sealed.
Can you explain the advantages of a SUP? Not being catty but i just do not see what they have as an advantage over a kayak?
Ta
Can you explain the advantages of a SUP? Not being catty but i just do not see what they have as an advantage over a kayak?
Ta
Not the same thing at all, apples and oranges, some people enjoy other things, it's not always about speed, efficiency etc.
Can you explain the advantages of a SUP? Not being catty but i just do not see what they have as an advantage over a kayak?
Ta
If you already own one you don't have to buy a kayak?
In my experience of winter UK windsurfing there are 2 kinds of cold, first the sort when you're in the water and second when you're back on the board and carrying on. So you need a suit that keeps you warm when wet.
I always make sure I dunk myself fully (head and all) before I start when it's the least bit chilly. That's because the longer you're dry, the more determined you are to stay that way so you limit your moves and stop being too dynamic.
And yes, TJ, I'm with you on that one. And this is coming from someone who went to Costa Rica this February to learn to do it in the warm Pacific surf. And failed.
Some top tips here from the excellent Cal Major
Its quite a hard one. I've tried wetsuit, drysuit and normal clothes in the winter.
TBH I tend to be on the sea where the stakes are higher if you fall in (and you are more likely to) and in proper winter conditions its a kayak drysuit with a neoprene (not latex) neck. The only wetsuits that are comfortable to paddle in are longjohns and they aren't warm enough to keep you alive for very long in the sea in the winter if the worst happens and you get seperated from the board. However I do tend to do long trips at least 500m or more from the shore. Windsurfing / surfing wetsuits are just too uncomfortable to wear for long periods paddling especially as they will probably be dry.
On a lake or river however, I think I'd just wear something that will keep me comfortable when paddling and minmise the cold water shock on the off chance I fall in. Then I'd just head back for the day knowing there would be no tides etc to prevent me getting back. So probaly the strides you have already or the full length version with a thermal rashy and lightweight cag would still be ok for all but the depths of winter. Probably wear some neoprene boots as well and definitely take woolly beanie as loads of heat escapes from your head and they work even when wet.
EDIT and always wear a PFD - I've lost count of the number of idiots I've seen way out on the sea with no BA. Its not surfing FFS!
EDIT and always wear a PFD – I’ve lost count of the number of idiots I’ve seen way out on the sea with no BA. Its not surfing FFS!
Just to temper this, you are strapped to a massive great inflatable thing (if it's an iSup, which most are).
That said, I think it is sensible to (and I do) wear a PFD in colder weather.
I am not saying they are daft - its just I don't understand. Clearly they have something or people would not be doing it. Just trying to learn / understand
"Just to temper this, you are strapped to a massive great inflatable thing"
2 years ago I was paddling across a huge lake in Switzerland when I heard someone shouting way off. I couldn't even see him that well but when I rocked up it was a bloke clinging to a mostly deflated SUP. He was only wearing board shorts as it was about 25 degrees air temp but the lake was freezing and he was hypothermic. Luckily a guy in a powerboat also rocked up after I waved at him and we were able to get the guy in the back and ferried him back to the nearest campsite on the shore where they had medical aid . Turned out the valve had failed on his board halfway across the lake and though he tried to make it back it deflated under him till he fell off....I bet he thought that as it was warm with no wind and he had a leash he'd be safe in boardies...
I’m 50% in agreement with TJ as if you are in surf they can be great but in a lake I couldn’t see the point.
Over the winter though I took advantage of nice days in Weymouth to borrow a SUP and found it a great workout. Much better suited to my mindset than a kayak. Just like I prefer a bike without a motor.i also think it is a far better overall work out than being sat pedalling.
Can you explain the advantages of a SUP?
As someone who has never tried a SUP and hasn't kayaked for years I think SUPs give a better view. I mostly only saw river bank from a kayak
SUP vs. kayak? I’ve got both. Kayak great for rivers and lakes where I live, which are pretty shallow and rocky and usually require a fair bit of hefting in and out over rocks and tree roots, meaning I want something robust and that doesn’t get dinged up. Usually take the kayak if I’m going camping.
SUP is more fun at the beach. Splashing around, surfing a bit, pushing my nine year old off. Two very different things and fun / suitable for different activities. Hang on, a bit like I have a road bike and a mountain bike...?!
As someone who does both, SUP and Kayaking are not better than each other - just different sports. SUP excercises the core muscles better, works on more muscle groups and your balance. It gives you a better view as someone posted above both on the river and on the sea if its clear shallow water as you can see right down to the bottom easier. Kayaks are generally more efficient (except the really nasty sit on tops) and always better if its windy as SUP into a headwind is horrible. Downwinders are fun though. SUP surfing in small waves is great fun as long as you aren't getting in peoples way as you can catch almost anything from way out.
My favourite type of SUP is paddling along the shore line for 10 or so km on a windless day at sunrise (or sunset) and picking up the odd wave to run in on........bliss
Kayaking for me is more of an expedition thing - pack up the sea kayak and paddle off for an overnight stay somewhere. I don't get much out of a gentle pootle on a kayak but would happly chuck the SUP in the water anywhere I happen to be for an hour or 2 with minimal gear needed.
Ta
I'd love a SUP for buggering about in the many wee local bays around, plenty inland waters too, and even for dropping a wee fishing line off at sunset, but the price keeps putting me off tbh.
I always make sure I dunk myself fully (head and all) before I start when it’s the least bit chilly
I go a step further than this when kiting in Tiree. Fill a flask with hot (not boiling) water and pour it down the front and back of your winter suit just before getting out on the water. Much more pleasant than full immersion and waiting for your body to warm up the sea water 😀
I think iSUPs are also attractive to people who don't want the hassle of lifting heavy boats onto a roof rack, or don't have the space to store them. As I understand it an iSUP paddles nearly as well as a rigid one, while inflatable kayaks and canoes are quite a bit worse on the water.
In terms of winter SUP wear, a paddling cag with neoprene cuffs is pretty handy. I got some fishing line caught around my fin and so had to lie on the board and pull it off. I didn't mind getting my hand wet, but filling up the sleeve with water and it running down my back when I stood up was less pleasant. Some wetsuit legs and booties were fine for the legs.
Kayak vs SUP - I have SUP, canoe and sea kayak.
1, I can only use a SUP (not kayak or canoe) from where I launch 15 min's from my house (due to a lease loophole, don't ask).
2, Easier to load, unload on my own.
3, Find standing much comfier than sitting,
4, Works well with a 5yr old on the front (maybe not during winter).
5, Currently enjoy it more.
I don't want to wear a wetsuit (especially a 5mm one) doing a sport where I'm staying dry 99% of the time.
Yes, I do wear a BA, it's a requirement of where I paddle. Didn't bother when I was surfing.
I'm gonna try my cag and strides for as long as I can, belay jacket in a dry bag will help if I have a swim.
Jakester
...That said, I think it is sensible to (and I do) wear a PFD in colder weather.
If you're going far offshore, it may be better to do what some of us used to do when paddling out to the reef in Queensland. A small backpack with flippers, snorkel and goggles.
If you got separated from your boat you at least have the option of swimming back. A long way, but if you're fit enough to paddle out, you should be fit enough to swim back. You can swim all day with your head down in the water with a snorkel.
On a lake with little chance of falling and I was staying close to shore off I'd wear normal clothes in winter, but I'd also pack a wetsuit in a dry bag just incase I did fall off.
On the sea it depends on how warm the day is and how far I go but I'll wear either a 3/2 or 4/3 and woolly hat if really cold.
If it's surfing then I'll wear a 4/3.
Personally in the winter I wear a drysuit, but that's because I already have a kayaking drysuit. With a fleece onsie underneath its toasty. I paddled boarded the river Dee in the highlands last year at around -5 and was verging on being to warm! A decent dry pants and dry top combo will work great also. I'm dont think neoprene is particularly warm when its dry or exposed to the wind etc. BA adds a big amount to thermal insulation also along with a hat or helmet if on a river.
As a very experienced WW kayaker, I really enjoy the SUP for 2 main reasons. 1: the convenience compared to moving around plastic kayaks or even worse canoes, its fantastic just being able to chuck into the back of the car or even carry in the backpack. 2: The SUP has made easier rivers and canals etc fun again for me. Its a bit like riding easy single track on a gravel bike compared to a 150mm enduro full-susser if that makes sense.
A wetsuit relies mostly upon a layer of water that your body then heats up - so, unless you fall in first, a wetsuit is not that great.
I'd be wearing my drysuit if winter paddling in the UK (but then I've already got a fairly spendy one).
f you’re going far offshore, it may be better to do what some of us used to do when paddling out to the reef in Queensland. A small backpack with flippers, snorkel and goggles.
LOL - I'm mostly just punting up and down the Avon, where I could probably walk home quicker than I could paddle it!
A wetsuit relies mostly upon a layer of water that your body then heats up – so, unless you fall in first, a wetsuit is not that great.
It relies on the air bubbles within the neoprene. Modern wetsuits let in very little water.
As mentioned above - always wear a Buoyancy Aid or life jacket on a SUP in open water...
https://twitter.com/i/status/1305872518499237890
Sorry cant get the link to show properly
"On a lake with little chance of falling and I was staying close to shore off I’d wear normal clothes in winter, but I’d also pack a wetsuit in a dry bag just incase I did fall off"
What? So you fall, off, get your wetsuit out of the bag and slip it on? Am I missing something?
PS please stop nagging me about wearing a BA (or a life-jacket!). I already mentioned that I do, it's a stipulation of where I paddle. I'm not in the middle of the ocean.
I think I will probably see how long I can cope with what I have, then maybe get some dry-trousers.
Mick
what to wear for winter lake
Where in GB is said lake?
Loch Ness (around 5*c year round )is rather different than Somerset Levels (winter temperature @12*c)....
What? So you fall, off, get your wetsuit out of the bag and slip it on? Am I missing something?
No - you fall off, you're cold you paddle the short distance to shore and put your wetsuit on as your backup clothing. Obviously if you are paddling further from the lake shore you need to weigh up the risk of falling in and getting back wet OK.
Hmmm I'm not convinced.
As someone interested in starting to SUP (only did it on holiday in Croatia, in 30 degree heat) could someone point out a good board / starter kit for me and my daughter (18). Ideally not the equiviliant of a BSO!
also, a quick jargon breakdown so i can keep up. Im based in Glasgow so tonnes of places within an hour or so's drive.
I SUP around NE Scotland and wear an O'Neil Epic 5/4mm wetsuit for 80% of the year. I surf and tour mainly in the North Sea, rarely inland.
On the rare occasion I get too hot I pull the wetsuit down so I'm just wearing the leg portion or I have a quick dunk. I have a 2mm shorty but that only comes out when its a tapps aff kinda day
I have the same query as macdubh, stock, as for bike parts, seems to be low in most shops. I can only find 800 pound kits, not sure thats a good starting kit!
Will be wearing my ww kayaking drysuit (but that's only because I have it), otherwise would likely have been 4/3 wetsuit and a windproof layer.
For sups have a look at aquaplanet. We have a pace which is good. Got a blackfin xl too which is better but 3x the price.
Local river where I swim through winter got down to 6° last Jan so gets plenty cold enough
Sheesh I didn't know that Loch Ness was that cold all year round!
I'm in the middle somewhere so won't be that cold.
I find dressing for Winter isn't so bad because it's cold all round. It's spring when the sun comes out and the water is still frigid. Sweating your balls off in a wetsuit on the board but a heart stopper if you fall in the water.
Sheesh I didn’t know that Loch Ness was that cold all year round!
I've found Ness, Tay and Awe the coldest of cold.
They're deep but with rapid inflow and outflow from high mountains. They never quite freeze, bet they certainly never have chance to warm from solar gain before the water flows out.
Loch Tay has an average residence time of 99 days. The average molecule of water will be in the Loch for that long before it flows out down the Tay, evaporates, flows into the groundwater, or is otherwise removed from the loch. Some molecules stay in the loch for many years (deep, cold water), some only last minutes (a raindrop falling in at Kenmore in the draw of the Tay).
It is generally cold.
It is generally cold.
After an average weekly swim for 5 years, I can confirm this.
It relies on the air bubbles within the neoprene. Modern wetsuits let in very little water
Well, no, it's the water that keeps you warm.
This is why a good fit is essential as it reduces excess water (that the body can't heat) and flushing of water in and out of the suit.
Steamer suits have glued and blind stitched stand to further reduce the flow of water to a minimum.
(If the suit relied on just the air within the suit then blind stitching would make no difference)
I should know this stuff seeing as two mates used to have a very successful wetsuit manufacturing business, but this will also clarify how they work
https://www.evo.com/guides/wetsuit-thickness-and-temperature-chart
On the point about people asking to avoid BSOs, we bought an AquaMarina board, maybe a Fusion, 4 summers ago, and its been great. It was around £300 and came with everything you needed. We've used it loads and its super rigid. The mrs and I use it on rivers, lakes and in the sea, and can't see any difference between that and a Red rental board. It seems to be built well.
Well, no, it’s the water that keeps you warm.
How come the thicker material keeps you warmer then?
Because there is an element of insulation from the neoprene.... But it's not the main insulator.
If if were then you could buy any ill-fitting suit and it would work as well as a properly fitting suit - which as you know is definitely not the case.
Also why bother with a dry zip in a steamer or neck entry (both features that reduce the flow of water through the zip)?
This is why they're called wetsuits as opposed to drysuits!
Wetsuits are designed to minimise the amount of water between your skin and the suit because the water conducts your heat away. They also minimise the exchange of water, so that you can warm it up, after which you don't lose more heat to it. But it's not the thin layer of water that's keeping you warm, it's that a thick layer would make you cold, as it would negate the insulation you get from the neoprene. As it says in the link, water conducts heat much faster than air.
Drysuit seals are much better than they were when wetsuits were invented - which is why many divers now use neoprene drysuits rather than wetsuits. The main benefit of a wetsuit it that it's cheap.
As mentioned above – always wear a Buoyancy Aid or life jacket on a SUP in open water…
He was a lucky chap!
Because there is an element of insulation from the neoprene…. But it’s not the main insulator.
The aim for a wetsuit manufacturer is to completely eliminate water entry to the suit whilst maintaining weight, comfort and flexibility of the suit. The neoprene is the insulator, the thin layer of water trapped between suit and body is an just an additional thing which needs to be kept warm and prevented from being recycled.
If this were achievable (and it appears they've managed it in the bulkier diving neoprene suit market as Greybeard says) then they'd still be known as wetsuits for historical reasons.
8 years SUP’ing (kayaks make my back sore 😂)
Autumn use = Musto sailing 5mm wetsuit (like InnitGareth says keeps you warm without getting it wet), or thinner and a coat or cag top. winter = Typhoon kayak dry suit with whatever needed underneath (toasty). Spring is a ballache as torso says, I never get it right.
Boots and gloves really help (Palm do great kayak gloves), 1.5-3mm neoprene boots (and wet shoes if you need to walk a way to the water)
Do wear a BA/PFD, whilst your board is a flotation device if you fall in and get cold shock you might not get to it. Seen and had to help with this twice and it is genuinely scary (both people fit and experienced summer paddlers).
Warm weather and flat for me is a Red inflatable PFD belt. White water anytime and cold weather is a proper Kayak PFD (keeps you warm too). If you’re going on rivers in the winter (usually more flow) use a waist quick release for your leash.
Because there is an element of insulation from the neoprene…. But it’s not the main insulator.
Please could you tell me the insulation value of 3mm/4mm/5mm of neoprene Vs 1mm of water?
I agree flushing water through is an issue.
But you are wrong to suggest water insulates. It may make you *feel* warm, but it doesn't keep you warm.
See:
https://www.lomo.co.uk/acatalog/How-Wetsuits-Work.html
Using a waist leash is good practice anywhere there is a strong tidal flow as well as flowing rivers. There was a case recently where a chap died after getting tangled round a buoy. I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't release his ankle leash after he went one way and his board went the other round the buoy chain.
Decathlon inflatable SUPs are pretty good for the money. My wife has one and has even written a review of it here:
(It's a couple of years old now so they probably don't still make the exact same model.)