And tomorrow it's the U20 rugby World Cup final, England v Wales. England to win.
Zokes, some fair points, but really why the constant stuff with AA? He is sensibly ignoring you and it adds nothing else to the thread. I hate reporting post but am sick of what's becoming trolling now. Lets focus on the rugby and leave the silliness behind, please.
As an Englishmen (with a little bit of Welsh blood in me), there was a point where I also thought that the Lions played like England on a bad day. Aimless kicking with Phillips being one of the culprits.
Phillips didn't have a great game but it wasn't all his fault - we were under a lot of pressure at the breakdown. We didn't play the ref particularly well but this was exacerbated imo by playing Croft at blindside; for all his excellent lineout and loose play we really missed a classic blindside. I think Croft unbalances any backrow he plays in - not an issue if your tight 5 are dominant but if you're struggling at the breakdown you really miss a competent practitioner of the traditional blindside dark arts.
I think the same thing happened last time in SA.
I'm simply speechless that anyone could point a finger of blame at croft (co incidentally (?)) a minority Englishman in the team. Warbs didn't do a job today and it wasn't down to heaslip or croft. Phillips was just plain shonky. Hesitant, indecisive and poor execution of tasks. Poor deliver, poor decision making. Nothing whatsoever to do with croft.
Tallie - I think the front 5 were dominant at least for the majority of the match. Front 3 very good.
Phllips aimless kicking is a Gatland tictac. Kick long and defend. His running bought very little success this week. Oh well it frees up others from the attention of defenders. Many a welsh supporter has criticised Phillips for all his faults as seen today and lived to regret it when he doesnt play even when others have looked much sharper coming on for the last 15 or 20. It was ever thus.
Biggest issue is who ref next week. Pollacks interpretation at the breakdown was odd to say the least but aus were all over it.
What did Warbs do wrong wrecker?
Not a lot, but we weren't in charge of the break down and had very little success in slowing down aus ball (partly due to refs poor interpretation as you'd said) but I just wanted to see more from the lions open side and captain. You know sometimes when you see a good open side, you'd swear there were 4 of them on the pitch? I didn't get that from warbs today. No doubt you disagree, but that's just my opinion.
Just to stop any paranoia I'm English and a long (suffering) time England fan so country of origin has nothing to do with it. I've thought the same about Croft ever since the last Lions tour - he's great if you're on top but can cost you in a tight game. As an aside I do get frustrated with England's / the Premiership's inability to acknowledge that open and blind side are different positions that require different skills and characteristics.
Croft didn't have a bad game (apart from one basketball pass on the wing when he could have just taken and given) - he did exactly what he always does and probably what he was selected for - excellent lineout and hung around out wide looking to use his pace. I'm just not sure this is the right option against Australia given we're clearly struggling at the breakdown.
Warburton wasn't great and Tipuric should probably get a run out if there wasn't the captaincy to consider.
The ref neutered the opensides, Hooper wasnt anything either. I'd have to watch it again sober to add anything more. I dont remember Croft doing much at all. Warbs tackled, rucked and aus got little joy at the breakdown apart fro via the ref when the lions tried to steal it Vunipolas pen was very dumb had he not watched tbe previous fifty mins?
As for Tipuric he'd have been pinged off the park and about as much use as tits on a snake with that ref. I imagine him and Pocock watched that game in tears from tbe sidelines. Who is the ref next week?
I think the Aussies have a lot more to worry about, our set pieces were Excellant. The open field stuff never really got going for us but that could change. Aussies were well up for it and I think almost at there best but set pieces let them down, much harder to turn that around.
Hooper was neutered by playing centre for a big chunk of the second half and I don't recall the Aussies getting pinged much at the breakdown apart from the obvious professional foul on their 5 metre line? They also got a couple of turnovers when we got isolated but it was more their ability to slow our ball down / prevent us getting quality quick ball that I found frustrating.
I refer the thread contributors to this post.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/summer-rugby/page/13?view=all#post-5064505
Last chance before I close it.
The Aussies had a lot cleaner and quicker ball than we did.
Couger yet again could you point out what I have done wrong?
PS please close the thread if you are finding it gives the mods too much work. Whilst I enjoy talking about rugby I dont enjoy the abuse and will happily take it to a rugby forum.
please close it.
The Aussies had a lot cleaner and quicker ball than we did.
thats a team issue, the balance of the backrow is all wrong. The coaching staff also seemingly failed to adapt the tictaks at the breakdown to ref it would appear only sam got the memo not to compete for there ball. Also whoever decided to take off adam wants shooting.
Couger yet again could you point out what I have done wrong?
The fact that you're still able to post, unlike some, should answer that question.
What happens with the refs then,will they have super 15 refs for all tests or maybe French,argie? how does it work?
thats a team issue, the balance of the backrow is all wrong.
I'd agree with that and imo it's down to Croft - not because he's playing badly - he's doing exactly what's being asked of him. I just don't think his style of play is suited to delivering quick ball against a modern SH team. That said I'm not sure who'd replace him in the lineout if he was dropped?
What happens with the refs then,will they have super 15 refs for all tests or maybe French,argie? how does it work?
As I understand it mikey,
Today's three officials stay. They ref 1 match each, and run line for the other two. They're all a bit different, but I wouldn't expect much variation from today. They've spent the week together to work on the consistency and agree on how things are. Didn't see much to suggest the touches disagreed with the ref today, they could always have flagged an drawn his attention if they saw fouls he didn't.
thanks loum that explains it,i'm far from an expert on the rules but most people in the pub were berating the ref for favouring the aussies,did he?
Rugby is a nightmare to ref, so much grey space in the rules but he was fairly consistent. Lions need to adapt and use the advantage he gives the team that takes ball in to the tackle.
[i]did he favour the ozzies?[/i]
No, Not really.
He may have "interpreted the rules" in a more southern hemisphere style than we were used too, but he did that fairly with both sides.
Thought he was good myself.
I reckon next week will be pretty similar so we'd do well to learn from today. Main one- don't touch the deck with a hand if you're contesting the ball after a tackle. BOD and POC could do well to remember this.
edit
thinking back. the biggest decision he had to make went very much the lions way.
BOD was very lucky to get away with his block on the tackler to allow Cuthbert the run in for his try.
anyone else and that was an Oz penalty, but everyone loves BOD so he got away with it 🙂
I'd say don't touch it unless it is clear cut, too much risk. Use this to you advantage and don't over commit to the ruck, keep players on their feet. We had more ball so this should be their problem but they are clearly use to it!
Indeed the ref favoured the team in possession, Lions need to pick and go up the guts to draw in defenders, we saw it a bit but not enough IMO
Warren Gatland said: "Tommy Bowe is fit and available, he trained today and did contact."Centre Manu Tuilagi is also fit for Tuesday's game at Melbourne Rebels.
"Manu will be available for Tuesday," Gatland said. "Having firepower come back and more options is hopefully going to be good for the next two weeks."
Will Tommy come straight back in? Cuthbert took his try well? Seems like Manu wont take part if he's playing Tuesday.
Tommy is going to be back in if fit, he's better than cuthbert on reputation alone.
I'd have Manu on the bench, there's no one else that causes that much havoc around the pitch, even if its I creating space for others due to 3 players having to mark him.
Croft will stay in, I'd out (another) pint on it.
And actually, what is the differance needed between blind and open side flankers? I'm of the opinion that I want two fast, lunatic scavengers who will die to win the ball and turn over, and who love to tackle all day long.
highlights here
How great will be the North Folau battle if they both stay fit 😀
I'm of the opinion that I want two fast, lunatic scavengers who will die to win the ball and turn over, and who love to tackle all day long.
That's not Croft. As the Lions showed you need someone to do the donkey work tackling and rucking. The Lions have put that on Warbs and given Croft more freedom to do what he does but I think it takes away from the team.
This will come over a bit anti welsh I suppose, but what was with the North taking the piss out of the scrum half before scoring (and which English player was it that got canned for the same thing, I'm racking my brains and I can't remember) and how did Warbs get handed off so easily for the Israel try? He should have had him easily there.
AA, I wasn't saying that was croft, I was asking what the differences were between the positions, not Croft / Warbs / Lydiate etc
Opensides are faster, job is to get to the ball and support open play. Blindsides are bigger and their job is to hurt people not fanny around on the wing trying to be an extra back.
and which English player was it that got canned for the same thing, I'm racking my brains and I can't remember
Armitage, North is getting ready for playing for Scumhampton
how did Warbs get handed off so easily for the Israel try?
which try, cant see Warburton being handed off in either
How great will be the North Folau battle if they both stay fit
I was thinking the exact same thing.
Open sides are also better looking and more successful with the opposite sex than blindsides 😀
Croft is a brilliant flanker, he's far more than an extra back and gatland knows it. I saw him involved in plenty of tackles and rucks today. Also made a good few yards. The smarts are knowing when to get involved and when to join the line. Its a bit of a black art (and not one I've mastered).
Still left Warburton to be top tackler though. I'd prefer someone like Lydiate to do the tackling and free up Warburton more, luckily the front five were exceptional today and were able to plug the gaps. We wont agree Wrecker but I will try and watch the game again whilst sober and see what Croft contributed because it didn't seem like much. Heaslip carried more and tackled more, Warburton tackled a lot more.
AA you're right, it was Corbs in the second try. Thought that 1 was a 7. He's a bit fatter so not as quick, but a hand off's still got to hurt from a winger as he goes past! Love the reasoning on North getting ready for Scumhampton!
I still can't see why two fast guys in the same mode aren't a good thing, as long as they tackle like maniacs.
I know you don't like Croft, but even garland rates him, he must do something for the team...?
Sexton and halfpenny were better placed for the tackle than corbsiero (a prop chasing a winger!). Halfpenny had a good go, sexton didnt even bother. That's not me being protective, watch the replay.
No I agree, I mistakenly thought it was Warbs who should have been flat out to make the cover (as any backrow player should). The other two should have had it, but sadly not.
Mind you, I think that the Aussi 14 was a lot, lot faster than he looks, and bloody hard to stop.
Still left Warburton to be top tackler though
The open side should always be top tackler, although BOD made more if I read the stats correctly. The 8 should also do more carrying. (Traditionally).
Open sides are also better looking and more successful with the opposite sex than blindsides
Very true although it is all relative...
In the SH, particularly NZ, openside is seen as one of the key positions - of similar importance to flyhalf which is one of the reasons I find England's "all back row positions are interchangeable approach" so frustrating - Back, Dallagio and Hill were the last balanced backrow we had. A good openside is the key link man between backs and forwards and is key to quick ball as well winning the odd turnover - watch McCaw for the epitome of this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23018029Australia captain James Horwill has been cited after an alleged incident with Alun Wyn Jones in the opening Test against the British and Irish Lions.
Not the best news for the Wallabies if they lose another one.
Cougs,be fair! This is generally a good thread with interesting debate. One poster seems to continue being silly but his target is being remarkably restrained and everyone else is ignoring the silliness. Please keep it open. There is a good series ahead of us!
If the openside does the most tackling and the eight carries more what is Crofts job. I dont totally agree that the 7 should tackle more either.
