Ooof… this has given airtime to Jonathan Gullis… currently on Radio4 bashing bishops and telling us that this is all about honouring the Brexit vote and anyone talking against this policy should shut up because of that vote.
Even by the 'standards' of the modern Tory party he really stands out as a planet-sized ****!!.
Its a reflection on Brexit and the chaos, nastiness and racism it has legitimised - which of course he uses as a justification for absolutely everything - that someone as vile as him wouldn't have had a sniff at a parliamentary seat without it.
He makes Ian Duncan Smith look like Mother Theresa
A graceful come back to the bishop bashing…
https://twitter.com/justinwelby/status/1605248420456894464?s=21
To be fair Jonathan Gullis has some form when it comes to idiotic comments. Although he might have surpassed himself with his latest one.
Suella's dream still a long way off becoming a practical reality.
She'll have to content herself with letting out a squeal of delight whenever a child drowns in the channel.
And that Gullis bloke... Must have a criminal conviction for something in his past, just look at him. Football hooliganism maybe? Or posting s*** through someone's letterbox or something?
What makes Gullis's bishop bashing particularly bizarre is that he used to be a religious education teacher:
https://www.ukpol.co.uk/jonathan-gullis-2022-speech-on-religious-education-in-modern-britain/
So quite why he thought it would be appropriate to claim that bishops shouldn't preach from pulpits is even more puzzling.
Edit: To be fair in his speech in the above link Gullis does openly confess to not being a "specialist", despite teaching RE, quote:
"I declare an interest as someone who was an RE teacher—although not a specialist"
Perhaps he just never got round to finding out what pulpits are for.
Braverman is back on the old “keep them on cruise ships” nonsense. Are Lynton Crosby’s people involved?
So now we've had sending them to Rwanda, housing them in army barracks, housing them in holiday camps, housing them in student halls, and now housing them on cruise ships?
At some point they're going to have to engage with reality and actually look at some proposals that are actually workable, rather than just being for the benefit of tomorrow mornings Daily Mail headlines
From the Guardian:
As for whether cruise ships could be used, Braverman just says that the government is talking to a “wide variety of providers and that “everything is still on the table and nothing is excluded”
Translation: We haven't got a ****ing clue what to do about any of this, so we'll keep banging on about Rwanda while flailing around hopelessly like the gang of morons we are
Maybe they could get Chris Grayling to source them some cruise liners? He's a dab hand with ferries
our clean-shaven Home Secretary
too much information!
Gullis was briefly in my department and he is a ****.
Bloody good job he didn't get chair of the Education Select Committee. Mogg/Johnson/Patel etc. voted for him though.
Braverman is back on the old “keep them on cruise ships” nonsense.
I think she has a nice little cruise planned for them.
Can't she put them on Chis Grayling's fleet of ferries?
That’s veering dangerously close to pre-ascribing views onto people because of their background, appearance etc.
I’m not sure what faith/religion Braverman subscribes to, but if she’s Hindu, then just a very quick look at Modi’s government in India shows where her attitude comes from. I also knew a girl from an Indian family, I think they were Hindu, and they were fine with her going out with a white English bloke, but when she announced she was getting engaged to him, she was threatened with being cast out of her family. She chose her fiancé, and they did.
Put them in cruise ships! Put them in army barracks! Drown them in the sea!
The actual answer is, process asylum and immigration claims sensibly, quickly and competently. Staff the departments adequately. Get it right first time rather than having failure-by-design swell the number of succesful appeals slowing the whole thing down. The total population stuck in application limbo is huge and rising not because of the number of people arriving but because the system has completely fallen apart, by design. Classic Theresa May, realised that her political goals would be best served by totally failing at her job so they could go "look at all the immigrants"
The lake isn't flooding because it's raining, it's flooding because they've dammed the river that leads out of it. Really not happy with that analogy, but, it does the job.
"That’s veering dangerously close to pre-ascribing views onto people because of their background, appearance etc."
I think the salient point here is not the ethnicity or the religion of Braverman, Patel and Sunak, it is the fact that their ancestors moved to British East Africa so they could be the administrators of an Apartheid regime, where they could enjoy political, employment, economic and freedom of movement rights that were denied to indigenous Africans, who they saw as a servant class.
They are beneficiaries of the British Empire, entirely and willfully complicit with the racial constructs that underpinned it.
Strange fact: When Kenya gained independence in the early Sixties, the indian population, (which was only 2%) owned 75% of the nations non agricultural assets, (and we know who owned the agricultural assets..)
The bit that makes me want to scream at the radio when these tory ministers are on is that they envoke brexit as an excuse for these mad schemes but don't acknowledge that brexit caused us to withdraw from EU resettlement schemes and torched all the good will that's required to solve these problems.
You can't be unsure if France is friend or enemy and hope that they'll be ever so kind and help us out of this hole of our own making.
The actual answer is, process asylum and immigration claims sensibly, quickly and competently. Staff the departments adequately. Get it right first time rather than having failure-by-design swell the number of succesful appeals slowing the whole thing down. The total population stuck in application limbo is huge and rising not because of the number of people arriving but because the system has completely fallen apart, by design. Classic Theresa May, realised that her political goals would be best served by totally failing at her job so they could go “look at all the immigrants”
Spot on and some of us realise that but many don't think further than the headlines that are provided to them combined with years of it being acceptable to not like immigrants of any type.
Spend the money on fixing the process, employing right number and the right people to work the process etc. rather than Rwanda deals, planes, cruise ships, hotels etc,.
Strange fact: When Kenya gained independence in the early Sixties, the indian population, (which was only 2%) owned 75% of the nations non agricultural assets
And another strange fact is that Jews were historically, and disproportionately, involved in finance.
What does that tell us - that there is a genetic predisposition in the DNA of certain racial groups to behave in a particular manner?
Or that an oppressed people are forced to behave in a certain manner and grab whatever opportunities when they present themselves?
In the case of Jews thousands of years of oppression and denial of equal employment opportunities, combined with religious restrictions on Christians and Muslims to lend money, forced them into a particular area of economic activity which was open to them.
Here is another strange fact:
From the 1st century AD to the start of British colonisation in India in the 17th century, India's GDP was between about 25 and 35% of the world's total GDP, which dropped to 2% by Independence of India in 1947.
Before the arrival of the British, India, united by the Mughal Empire, had the largest economy in the world and was the global manufacturing powerhouse.
Britain systemically deindustrialised India leaving it in economic ruins and racked by reoccurring famines.
There remained, however, a highly educated and skilled population which the British Empire used for its own purposes outside India.
Like Jews Indians living in conditions of oppression and denial of equality grabbed what opportunities were available to them. For many educated Indians this meant immigrating to other parts of the British Empire.
Unsurprisingly this often proved to be highly successful in terms personal achievement. Areas such as East Africa were simply not as advanced technologically and educationally wise as much of India was.
The expulsion of African Asians by a brutal dictator such as Idi Amin wasn't entirely surprising, what is more surprising imo is that role of Asians in Africa at the time of the British Empire should still be stigmatized 50 years later.
In the case of Braverman and Sunak their immigrant parentage does not have a predominantly business background, in fact it is mostly medical. Sunak's father was a GP and his mother was a pharmacist, and Braverman's father worked for a housing association and her mother was a nurse.
It should also be remembered that many Indians were highly involved in the anti-apartheid movement, as indeed were a great many Jews (despite Israel's shameful support of apartheid) before they are dismissed as lackeys of white supremacists.
Double post
This is a couple of days old but I have only just read it and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere:
I am frankly appalled - I had thought even the Tories going back to Theresa May had accepted that the Windrush scandal was a total indefensible injustice that had to be righted.
It is one thing to lack decency and humanity towards illegal immigrants it is on a different level to deny it to legal immigrants.
"As a result of Home Office errors, thousands of UK residents who had travelled legally to Britain in the 50s and 60s, were told wrongly that they were immigration offenders, with catastrophic consequences."
To add to my disappointment I don't see the Labour front bench creating much fuss. What message does that send to British African Caribbean community? Presumably that it doesn't matter much.
Bloody Labour front bench - grr!!!!!
Yeah you've got a Tory Cabinet that includes a significant amount of black and brown faces which doesn't give a toss about racist immigration and nationality laws, and illegal practices, as long as it doesn't affect them. And you have a Labour Shadow Cabinet that barely cares full stop.
And how many on here care? Where's the usual ranting and outrage about how terrible the Tories are?
Or is all the best anger and outrage reserved for brexit and FOM?
" Sources told the Guardian that the home secretary has dropped a pledge to create the post of a migrants’ commissioner, who was due to be responsible for speaking up for migrants and for identifying systemic problems within the UK immigration system."
I am frankly appalled – I had thought even the Tories going back to Theresa May had accepted that the Windrush scandal was a total indefensible injustice that had to be righted.
It's quite simple.
Any commissioner would quickly identify that the government, the tories have deliberately built the immigration system to be bias and as difficult to negotiate as possible, with the intention on preventing people, who have fled war torn countries to find safe haven in the UK.
It shows them exactly as they are, inhumane, and they wish to hide those facts from being put down on record. Sure we all know this to be the case, but the last thing the tories want is to have a ruling showing exactly that going into the records.
Yeah you’ve got a Tory Cabinet that includes a significant amount of black and brown faces which doesn’t give a toss about racist immigration and nationality laws, and illegal practices, as long as it doesn’t affect them. And you have a Labour Shadow Cabinet that barely cares full stop.
Yes, that bloody Labour front bench, GRRR!
I'm with you on this Ernie. Its utterly disgusting. As is labours silence on it. Labours silence is at least partly down to chasing those racist votes IMO and its a disgrace
As to why less outrage?. We are not going to change the fundamentally racist nature of the tory party. to watch labour turn into the party they have become ie tory lite appalls me. Its a given that the tories will behave like this. Labour should not be following them
Ihave shouted about labours following of racist policies before from Burnham playing the race card to get elected to Starmers support for anti immigrant laws and brexit
YOu do make a good point tho
So, so many layers of wrong.
As to why less outrage?. We are not going to change the fundamentally racist nature of the tory party.
The huge publicity that the Windrush scandal initially generated shamed a Tory government into making significant concessions and promises to implement important procedures, as the Guardian article illustrates.
So it is obvious that much can be done to correct blatant injustices, even under a Tory government.
However this current shower are quietly abandoning and reversing those commitments with the minimal fuss and publicity. Why is this being allowed?
Yes, that bloody Labour front bench, GRRR!
Instead of repeating the same comment twice care to elaborate why you agree with my disappointment at the minimal fuss created by the Labour front bench over the issue?
Or in the likely event that it is an attempt at sarcasm why you feel that I am wrong to be disappointed?
Why is this being allowed?
IMO because labour are chasing the same racist votes and the vast majority of the media support the tories and their racism
IMO because labour are chasing the same racist votes and the vast majority of the media support the tories and their racism
So why are you tacitly backing the Labour Front Bench's inaction by claiming that nothing can be done because we are not going to change the fundamentally racist nature of the tory party?
And how many on here care? Where’s the usual ranting and outrage about how terrible the Tories are?
Or is all the best anger and outrage reserved for brexit and FOM?
You know how you and others pop up every so often and say 'Brexit wasn't motivated by racism' and then several of us respond by saying 'Yes it was' and we go back and forth, tempers flare and someone ends up calling someone else a **** and getting banned?
Well, that gives you the impression of outrage and anger despite people not actually being outraged and angry.
If you want to generate some of the outrage and anger you see on the Brexit threads then try making the point that this isn't a racist policy. We'll jump in and explain why you're wrong. It'll go back and forth and eventually someone will call someone else a **** and get banned. Voila, outrage and anger.
Maybe the reason there's not much anger on this thread is that this is a blatantly racist policy and even our most, shall we charitably say 'right wing' members, are going to be hard pushed to defend it.
Yes, it's appalling but I see you've identified that the most important take away is it's a good opportunity for point scoring in true STW style.
Ernie - I am hardly backing labour!
That was my explanation of why we see less outrage. Tories gonna tory. Labour don't have to
You know how you and others pop up every so often and say ‘Brexit wasn’t motivated by racism’ and then several of us respond by saying ‘Yes it was’ and we go back and forth, tempers flare and someone ends up calling someone else a **** and getting banned?
No I don't know that. I don't pop up every so often and say ‘Brexit wasn’t motivated by racism’. I don't engage in debates about Brexit.
In fact I thought it was you who recently criticised me for not engaging and responding when you tried to have an argument with me over Brexit?
What I do say is stop banging on about Brexit ffs, the debate was 6 years ago, the UK has left the EU and won't be joining again anytime soon.
As for your suggestion that this current shower are merely reversing the previous Tory government's commitment to bring some justice for the Windrush Generation because it will appeal to British voters, that is clearly nonsense.
The Windrush scandal was not a vote winner for the Tories, which is precisely why they were shamed into doing something about it, otherwise they would have stuck to their guns.
And secondly if they now believed that there would be much political milage from abandoning their previous promises and commitments they wouldn't be doing it so quietly.
Despite following current affairs quite closely I only learnt yesterday about the latest development which occurred about three days ago. It is clearly getting very little publicity.
They are abandoning all their promises and commitments to the Windrush Generation because they simply don't care, and they hope that very few people will notice. I reckon they might be right.
What I do say is stop banging on about Brexit ffs, the debate was 6 years ago, the UK has left the EU and won’t be joining again anytime soon.
And by taking that stance as labour have done you let the tories off the hook
Its also IMO incorrect. Brexit is not over. There are still many issues unresolved like the UK has not implemented the border controls its obliged to under the withdrawal agreement, llike the NI protocol, like the continuing economic damage which is not played out yet
Brexit is going to remain the number one political issue for years to come no matter how much you wish it away. Its wishful thinking to say "brexit is over"
And just to add, because I am pretty pissed off by this, I hear a lot of bollocks on here about racism against Europeans.
I came to the UK as a six year old child, my circumstances were, and still are, identical to the Windrush Generation. And yet there is absolutely zero possibility of me being deported**. Why? Because I am not black. I am a white European.
There is no racism against Europeans when it comes to immigration and nationality legislation and procedures.
But the obsession on here is to bang on about alleged racism against Europeans.
Edit: Whilst ignoring actual racism against black people.
Edit 2 : ** Or denied NHS treatment - Windrush Generation individuals have been denied NHS cancer treatment, FFS.
In fact I thought it was you who recently criticised me for not engaging and responding when you tried to have an argument with me over Brexit?
Nope, I deliberately made sure my question to you could be answered without being in any way related to Brexit and you ignored it anyway, I assume because you couldn't score any points off it.
Let's face it, it's a bit rich for you to come here and accuse us of hypocrisy when you voted for the very thing that emboldened the tories to enact this policy. You really think they would be pulling this shit if you and others like you hadn't voted for Brexit?
Don't try to accuse the rest of us of hypocrisy when this is definitely your fault.
And by taking that stance as labour have done you let the tories off the hook
And by continually battering and blaming Labour over Brexit, you let the Tories off the hook domestically and strengthen their hand.
Lots of us desperately need a change of government in this country because we’ve got real problems. The last thing we need is a people getting in the way of that change because they’re still sore at not getting their way in a referendum six years ago.
It’s not some middle class parlour game to us. Our kids need housing, some of us need hospital care, we’re underpaid and under skilled. You can argue that Brexit doesn’t help that and I’d agree. You can’t argue that Brexit is the cause of it all because it demonstrably isn’t.
These problems were with us way before 2020.
Wishful thinking trail monkey
Brexit may not be the root cause but its made all those issues worse
folk pretending that brexit is not an issue is a far bigger problem and its folk taking that position that lets the tories off the hook. Not those of us that want labour to hammer the tories for thier brexit.
Wishful thinking on brexit will not help solve the issues and labour because of their brexiteer stance will be unable to do more than tinker round the edges because they rule out the single thing that would most improve the lot of the UK citizen
Don’t try to accuse the rest of us of hypocrisy when this is definitely your fault.
Yeah it's definitely me and Mick Lynch's fault that a bunch of pseudo-lefties shrug their shoulders and say you can't do anything about Tory governments being racist against black people, but then bang on hysterically about FOM and so-called racism against Europeans.
We are responsible for your hypocrisy! 🤣
Wishful thinking on brexit will not help solve the issues and labour because of their brexiteer stance will be unable to do more than tinker round the edges because they rule out the single thing that would most improve the lot of the UK citizen
Well that’s where we differ. I personally believe that the single thing that would most improve the life of the U.K. citizen would be to remove the Tories. You seem to think that it is rejoining the EU.
Yeah it’s me and Mick Lynch’s fault that a bunch of pseudo-lefties shrug their shoulders and say you can’t do anything about Tory governments being racist against black people, but then bang on hysterically about FOM and so-called racism against Europeans.
Yes, you've made it quite clear this is all our fault for not getting outraged. However, the extent of your outrage seems to only extend as far as pointing out our supposed hypocrisy on an internet forum, you glorious class warrior you.
I'm sure you've got the tories quaking in their boots.
Anyway, tempers seem to be flaring a bit on this thread now so congratulations for generating outrage and anger around this issue.
I'll be honest gang, virtually every political topic on STW has become unreadable and pointless. Well done all.
Yep, there is simply too much history between all the posters for it to be anything else.
I’m sure you’ve got the tories quaking in their boots.
LOL! Because ranting about the Tories and Brexit on a MTB forum does precisely that!!
My last rant on here was directed at you not the the Tories, in case you haven't noticed.
Will it make any difference? No of course not, you will undoubtedly continue with your ranting and outrage at alledged racism against Europeans whilst dismissing Tory government racism against black people as simply a consequence of Tories being racist, therefore not much can be done about it.
But ultimately no political thread on here will have "the tories quaking in their boots", which apparently is the criteria that matters to you.
So save yourself the trouble and don't bother ranting about brexit and how terrible the Tories are.
Edit: This six page thread is dedicated to Suella Braverman. I thought her recent decision concerning the Windrush Generation might be of interest. Apparently not particularly - my disappointment with Labour's front bench over the issue gets more criticism than Braverman does.
I personally believe that the single thing that would most improve the life of the U.K. citizen would be to remove the Tories.
If there was an alternative but you have a in England a choice of two tory parties. The nasty tory party and the tories with a smile. the labour party have moved so far right they now occupy the centre right ground.
I also believe that labour would do better with a truthful manifesto of pro EU anti privatisation etc manifesto. You know - the sorts of policies the majority want
Edit: also labour adopting the positions they have makes making life better for UK citizens almost impossible.
I’ll be honest gang, virtually every political topic on STW has become unreadable and pointless. Well done all.
This.
A six page thread on Suella Braverman is only readable if everyone agrees. Once contributors start to disagree a political thread it becomes unreadable.
I take full responsibility for buggering up things by posting something which apparently not everyone can agree on.
The good news is that I have never contributed to the Brexit thread and probably never will. So there's at least one political thread where everyone can agree on the subject matter - everyone agrees that Brexit is bad. Long live the unspoilt Brexit thread! 😉
