Thats not exactly massively over minimum wage.
When I started my job 11 years ago out of Uni in one of the worst paid grad careers I was on £15.5k (engineer). And I really struggled on that in 2000.
Is it just me?
More than I got in my first job after leaving Uni!
Capitalism innit? Supply and demand. Companies have been jettisoning graphic designers left, right and centre. A lot of agencies have folded. So there is a huge pool of experienced, highly skilled applicants for every position
Having been looking for a job in Design, albeit at a senior level, I'd say salaries have dropped 30% or more, across the board, in the industry. I can't imagine its the only industry this is happening. Companies will pay as little as they can get away with for the skills they need
Actually - that doesn't sound a bad salary at all for a juniors position. A lot more than I started on! I suspect it'd be a great first industry job. You'd learn loads!
That seems alright. Is the role business core?
This is also true for Product Design. I work in the Marine industry, where yacht and boat builders production is down and design teams have been culled....so with not many jobs around employers can 'get away' with offering low salaries.
But £15.6k! I know nothing about Lancashire, but am guessing the bin men get paid more than that. For someone who has worked for 3 years at Uni unpaid, and come out with the skills on the list- well Im just surprised.
Not intending to turn this in to a debate of going to Uni vs Not by the way.
I'd have killed for a Junior Designer job paying that after leaving Uni! Took me a year to get a job remotely doing what I wanted, and that paid, wait for it, £8.5k! I was getting less than a boy who'd done a years HND or something after doing GCSE's!
I'm sure no one will apply if it's seen as derisory. IMO it's a new job that ST have created, good for them, starts someone off. And I'm sure they get to drink great coffee and touch bling bikes.
Right! As a graphic designer you don't actually know shit about the 'real' industry when you graduate. You just couldn't cope with a fast paced publishing environment straight away.
So a junior position is perfect. I would imagine whoever gets this job will learn more in 6 months than they did in 3 years at uni. And they'll get paid for doing it!
Bin men get paid more, but a junior designer can end up as an Art Director within a relatively short timescale. I did! And Ladders... I started off on about the same
Seems about right for a fresh graduate. Our entry level graduate roles are around the £16k mark.
ads-b - Member
But £15.6k! I know nothing about Lancashire, but am guessing the bin men get paid more than that. For someone who has worked for 3 years at Uni unpaid, and come out with the skills on the list- well Im just surprised.
Bin man average Salary = 19k
http://www.mysalary.co.uk/average-salary/Refuse_Collector_9691
People will work for free in this day and age- but there is a moral dilema about using interns which could also apply to some level to low paid salaries I would have thought (still not actually saying £15.6k is low- just to me it sounds low).
Heres a statistic for you. In 2009 the amount of employers paying 16-19k for a graduate was 3.6%. There isnt even a stat for below 16k.
It's not huge money yes, but as a grad at the moment you take what you can get!
We have just employed a new grad surveyor on a years contract, and paying him around £13,000. Essentially a placement year, but he has finished uni. he's just happy to have a job!
I don't know this, but I woudl guess as a national average a starting grad salary is around £17,000pa.
someone who has worked for 3 years at Uni unpaid, and come out with the skills on the list
Art school graduates are not the finished article though and will usually need on the lob training before they know how it's done in the 'real world'
seems perfectly reasonable considering the size of the publication, it's location in a grim northern town and the current economic climate.
But £15.6k! I know nothing about Lancashire, but am guessing the bin men get paid more than that.
Since the usual suspects haven't yet piped up, the question is, why shouldn't a binman earn more than a junior designer? I bet most junior designers wouldn't rather sit in a comfy office playing on a computer than be outside collecting bins.
Part-funded by the EU as well.
Not bad for clicking, doing powerpoint, using PaintShopPro, colouring in and shit.
A bit of danger money for using a scalpel would be a nice touch though.
See link above- average starting salary is nearer 20k. But probably not comparable when taking location and career into account though.
some juniors get paid less.
Some people come out of Uni into [s]slavery[/s] internships.
£15.5k is good for coloring stuff in and buying a pair of skinny jeans and espadrilles... 😛
Ok. Just checked, and according to this link:
Average graduate salaries are £29,000!!
A bit of danger money for using a scalpel would be a nice touch though.
Taking the end of your finger off is a right of passage DD. Wear those scars with pride 😀
But £15.6k! I know nothing about Lancashire, but am guessing the bin men get paid more than that. For someone who has worked for 3 years at Uni unpaid, and come out with the skills on the list- well Im just surprised.
I can live without another graphic designer in the world but if my bins don't get collected....
Is it just me?
Probably not on here, but I don't think it's appropriate to criticise the salary on here, you may put people off applying. I worked for free for a month to get my foot in the door. It winds me up that people expect a high wage just because...
Looks like a great opportunity for the right person.
Not bad for clicking, doing powerpoint, using PaintShopPro, colouring in and shit.
Oh!, you meant not bad for having to have a natural artistic talent in the first place, learning Quark, InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop and how to output to print.
They're all high as kites off spray mount anyway...
Ladders, I think binners would explain my standpoint on this one. (I'm only messing 😛 )
I suppose that there would be plenty of shiny bikes and bits as part of the package?
I can live without another graphic designer in the world
I'm hurt!
Actually.... we were having a discussion about what the name would be for a collective of designers. A gaggle of geese, a pod of dolphins...... an irrelevance of designers? 😆
And Ladders.... DD's better half is a graphic designer. He's just jealous of the superior colouring-in ability 😉
I'll tell you what... I'd have bloody jumped at that chance if I was a graduate!!! Sounds like a cracking opportunity
I'm hurt!
I wasn't having a dig, honest. 😉
I just don't think it's shocking that a Binman should earn more than Junior Designer. He absolutely should in fact.
And it is a northern salary - I imagine £15.6K is a veritable small fortune up there. You could buy a whole terrace in some parts of Sheffield with that kind of money.
I think you'll find that the collective noun you seek is 'ponce' 🙂
Ladders, I think binners would explain my standpoint on this one. (I'm only messing )
Sorry, it was the mention of 'Graphic Design' and 'Powerpoint' being used in the same sentance! 😉
😆
Back to the OP - having just come out of Uni/Art school - I would have bitten someones arm off of that wage and to work on something that actually interests you. Instead my first role was knocking up technical brochures for boilers (not exactly the vision I had when doing my BA).
Happy to say I've left the world of design behind (mainly because I was shit), and am now their arch enemy - the developer.
Ladders - Member
I'd have killed for a Junior Designer job paying that after leaving Uni! Took me a year to get a job remotely doing what I wanted, and that paid, wait for it, £8.5k! I was getting less than a boy who'd done a years HND or something after doing GCSE's!
POSTED 14 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
Unless things have changed it takes 4 years to get a HND - 2 years at OND then a further 2 years.
That's what it took me albeit 20+ years ago.
First job offer was £3k a year. Turned that down and got one starting at £7k
I honestly don't think that is a bad starting salary for a designer - they take loads of real training once graduated as they don't have the technical competence to design to specification yet.
Sorry, it was the mention of 'Graphic Design' and 'Powerpoint' being used in the same sentance!
Mrs Bravissimo is easy to wind up, believe me.
I think that's fair for the location and the job/industry.
my girlfriend at the time started her graphic designer job in an industry that made a LOT of cash. her first job started on £14k (five or six years ago now) in London.
To be fair I think a lot of graduates these days are bitterly dissappointed with their earning potential straight out of uni unless they are in certain industries.
Must be a bitter pill to swallow having racked up £30k of debt invested in your future to be worse off than many unskilled jobs.
That said, the bin man analogy isn't very fair. What would you rather be doing? sitting in STW towers playing with bling bikes and creating interesting work (as well as the dross, but that's just life) or emptying bins? I'd take the financial hit every time*
*If I could draw, which I can't.
And anyway, I bet refuse collectors get bloody fed up, as they always are used in the shit salary comparison "XXXX?? even a bin man gets more than that"
I've had a years experience after uni and still only on £14.5k (goes up to 15 after 3 months) at a tv studio. I don't know how the guys with families can afford to work there, the shifts would be shite for anyone who isn't single as well. In this industry I think to start out with it's all about getting the experience and enough money to get by on.
Ok. Just checked, and according to this link:Average graduate salaries are £29,000!!
It says the median salary is £29,000.
That's not the average.
No disrespect to Binmen, as they [i]do[/i] do an important job, but it's not exactly a hard skill to learn. That's whats so frustrating about some of the wages that are paid out there.
It £7.50 / hr for a 40 hr week, If its a £35 hr week its £8.50 A chunk above minimum wage of £6.08.
depressed wages especially in the north of England. Beer is cheap there tho 🙂
And I'm fairly certain all a bin man will ever earn is around £19k whereas a graduate would hope to earn a lot more than that over the course of their career
bin men get paid more than that
And rightly so. If I had to choose between them I'd rather have my bin emptied than my graphics designed.
No disrespect to Binmen, as they do do an important job, but it's not exactly a hard skill to learn.
But it's an important job to the function of society, I'm not sure I could say the same thing about a graphic designer. Plus the fact it must be bloody hard work. On your feet all day, outside in all weathers essentially collecting everyone elses crap.
So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc.
If I had to, I could take my own rubbish to the local dump!
You muppets, what are you brain surgeons or something?But it's an important job to the function of society, I'm not sure I could say the same thing about a graphic designer
So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products...
No notes telling you what day your bin day is...
Average graduate salaries are £29,000!!
Bollocks they are. I live in the South-East, work in London, graduated 3 years ago and don't know of anyone who got a graduate job anything like that!
The multinational where I work (in the South East) pays grads £15k, or £18,700 in Central London!
Bollocks they are. I live in the South-East, work in London, graduated 3 years ago and don't know of anyone who got a graduate job anything like that!The multinational where I work (in the South East) pays grads £15k, or £18,700 in Central London!
See above.
He's confused average with median
The biggest question I have from this thread is what on earth are graphic designers learning at uni for three years if they're not experienced enough to go straight into a non-junior 'learning' role?
After three years at uni, I was thrown straight into doing exactly the same job as highly experienced staff.
fervouredimage +1.
So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc.
Sounds like paradise...
[img] 
[/img]
The biggest question I have from this thread is what on earth are graphic designers learning at uni for three years if they're not experienced enough to go straight into a non-junior 'learning' role?After three years at uni, I was thrown straight into doing exactly the same job as highly experienced staff.
What most graphic designers aren't learning is the technical side of the job. Stuff like using the computer programmes and how to output to print etc. These are learnt on the job.
What they do learn is more the art side and theoretical side etc
So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc.
Well now you put it like that, I don't know what I would do.
Sounds like paradise...
Why stop there, why not have no designers. No MTB's, no cars, no clothes......
You muppets, what are you brain surgeons or something?
Not a brain surgeon but I am a heart surgeon.
What's your point?
So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc.Sounds like paradise...
And where do you think this website materialised from?
[i]So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc[/i]
I'm reasonably sure that all these things pre-date 'graphic designers' by a number of years...
What most graphic designers aren't learning is the technical side of the job. Stuff like using the computer programmes and how to output to print etc. These are learnt on the job.
True, but most digital presses now (from what I'm aware) handle alot more of this stuff than they used to. I appreciate the old skool methods of color seperation, spot colours, custom varnishes etc - I remember the days of making printers films from plates and colour proofs make from cromalins.
Now-a-days, alot of stuff can be proofed by pdfs etc, rather than the old skill of having to create them by hand.
No disrespect to Binmen, as they do do an important job, but it's not exactly a hard skill to learn.
So how come you weren't up to it?
And where do you think this website materialised from?
Developers writing code. Not designers doing photoshop stuff.
I'd quite like to be a bin man, task and finish sounds excellent
Design is a tough industry - my wife is a designer, working with many of the top London Agencies and they money even at her level isn't great by usual city comparison - seniors are still on sub £40k. But they literally have 100's of people lining up for every job, and they will kick you out if you don't give 110%.
But for some I guess it is the perfect job. That's why it is now such a popular course at uni now, as well as college and even a-level!
Sod that - I will get back to my well paid job clicking on spreadsheets.
True, but most digital presses now (from what I'm aware) handle alot more of this stuff than they used to. I appreciate the old skool methods of color seperation, spot colours, custom varnishes etc - I remember the days of making printers films from plates and colour proofs make from cromalins.Now-a-days, alot of stuff can be proofed by pdfs etc, rather than the old skill of having to create them by hand.
Yes, but you still need to know how to output to CMYK even if it isn't to plates. Plus a lot of Magazines, brochures etc are still printed Litho
And where do you think this website materialised from?
The Internetz.
why not have no designers. No MTB's
I'm pretty sure the engineers could manage that one without any input from the designers. There might be a bit of a lack of last year's model with some tweaks and a new [s]paintjob[/s] colorway to make you want a new one if that bothers you though.
What most graphic designers aren't learning is the technical side of the job. Stuff like using the computer programmes and how to output to print etc. These are learnt on the job.What they do learn is more the art side and theoretical side etc
It sounds like the degree programme needs rewriting.
Why stop there, why not have no designers. No MTB's, no cars, no clothes......
No, we can just stop with Graphic Designers. It's not an all or nothing choice.
I didn't realise we were voting on the abolishment of Graphic Designers. Where do I sign?
😉
I'm joking. I'm not saying that Graphic Designers don't have worth in Society, of course they do, but so do Binmen and most people, given the choice of what society could lose would probably choose graphic designers to be given the chop over binmen.
It's a false opposition to compare a binman to a designer but I still think it's reasonable that binmen should earn more than a Junior Designer.
surely an educated individual like yourself doesn't need my point explaining?but I am a heart surgeon
So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc
We'd have all of those, they'd just be less pretty.
Why stop there, why not have no designers. No MTB's, no cars, no clothes......
We'd have all of those, they'd just be less pretty.
And where do you think this website materialised from?
The designer coloured it in, they didn't make it.
B ark.
It sounds like the degree programme needs rewriting.
Funny, that's exactly what I thought when I graduated and entered the real world.
Sounds like an OK wage for a junior position to me.
It sounds like the degree programme needs rewriting.
Yep - my BA tought all theory, and how to critique your and others work. Luckily I worked in a repo house alongside doing my degree, so got to learn all the technical stuff from there. Pretty much walked into a job as soon as I left Uni.
Degree course touch on the technical side, but very briefly - they'd be better to include a module to place students for at least a month as a repo house or similar.
Took me a year to get a job remotely doing what I wanted, and that paid, wait for it, £8.5k!
My first job in IT (helpdesk circa 1992) paid £7,500. I found out later that I was one of the highest paid new starters they'd ever taken on.
STW is small business, you need to watch your overheads.
Staff costs are usually one of the biggest
They look like a great company to work for with certain lifestyle benefit (assumption only)
The job title says Junior
Juniors tend to need more time investment and coaching
16k seems okay to me, can't see the problem
I'm pretty sure the engineers could manage that one without any input from the designers. There might be a bit of a lack of last year's model with some tweaks and a new paintjob colorway to make you want a new one if that bothers you though.
Left to the engineers we'd still be riding around on steel rigid bikes with thumb shifters and U brakes....
Still having as much fun though so maybe not a bad thing. Perhaps it's time to give up on product design and become a personal trainer.
Tis only a mountain bike mag too; it's not like they'll have to design an Olympic logo or anything...