[Closed] STW Junior Designer job £15.6k- did I read that right?

No disrespect to Binmen, as they do do an important job, but it's not exactly a hard skill to learn.

But it's an important job to the function of society, I'm not sure I could say the same thing about a graphic designer. Plus the fact it must be bloody hard work. On your feet all day, outside in all weathers essentially collecting everyone elses crap.

So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc.

If I had to, I could take my own rubbish to the local dump!

But it's an important job to the function of society, I'm not sure I could say the same thing about a graphic designer

So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products...

No notes telling you what day your bin day is...

Average graduate salaries are £29,000!!

Bollocks they are. I live in the South-East, work in London, graduated 3 years ago and don't know of anyone who got a graduate job anything like that!

The multinational where I work (in the South East) pays grads £15k, or £18,700 in Central London!

Bollocks they are. I live in the South-East, work in London, graduated 3 years ago and don't know of anyone who got a graduate job anything like that!

The multinational where I work (in the South East) pays grads £15k, or £18,700 in Central London!

See above.

He's confused average with median

The biggest question I have from this thread is what on earth are graphic designers learning at uni for three years if they're not experienced enough to go straight into a non-junior 'learning' role?

After three years at uni, I was thrown straight into doing exactly the same job as highly experienced staff.

fervouredimage +1.

So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc.

Sounds like paradise...

[img] [/img]

The biggest question I have from this thread is what on earth are graphic designers learning at uni for three years if they're not experienced enough to go straight into a non-junior 'learning' role?

After three years at uni, I was thrown straight into doing exactly the same job as highly experienced staff.

What most graphic designers aren't learning is the technical side of the job. Stuff like using the computer programmes and how to output to print etc. These are learnt on the job.

What they do learn is more the art side and theoretical side etc

So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc.

Well now you put it like that, I don't know what I would do.

Sounds like paradise...

Why stop there, why not have no designers. No MTB's, no cars, no clothes......

You muppets, what are you brain surgeons or something?

Not a brain surgeon but I am a heart surgeon.

What's your point?

So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc.

Sounds like paradise...

And where do you think this website materialised from?

[i]So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc[/i]

I'm reasonably sure that all these things pre-date 'graphic designers' by a number of years...

What most graphic designers aren't learning is the technical side of the job. Stuff like using the computer programmes and how to output to print etc. These are learnt on the job.

True, but most digital presses now (from what I'm aware) handle alot more of this stuff than they used to. I appreciate the old skool methods of color seperation, spot colours, custom varnishes etc - I remember the days of making printers films from plates and colour proofs make from cromalins.

Now-a-days, alot of stuff can be proofed by pdfs etc, rather than the old skill of having to create them by hand.

No disrespect to Binmen, as they do do an important job, but it's not exactly a hard skill to learn.

So how come you weren't up to it?

And where do you think this website materialised from?

Developers writing code. Not designers doing photoshop stuff.

I'd quite like to be a bin man, task and finish sounds excellent

Design is a tough industry - my wife is a designer, working with many of the top London Agencies and they money even at her level isn't great by usual city comparison - seniors are still on sub £40k. But they literally have 100's of people lining up for every job, and they will kick you out if you don't give 110%.

But for some I guess it is the perfect job. That's why it is now such a popular course at uni now, as well as college and even a-level!

Sod that - I will get back to my well paid job clicking on spreadsheets.

True, but most digital presses now (from what I'm aware) handle alot more of this stuff than they used to. I appreciate the old skool methods of color seperation, spot colours, custom varnishes etc - I remember the days of making printers films from plates and colour proofs make from cromalins.

Now-a-days, alot of stuff can be proofed by pdfs etc, rather than the old skill of having to create them by hand.

Yes, but you still need to know how to output to CMYK even if it isn't to plates. Plus a lot of Magazines, brochures etc are still printed Litho

And where do you think this website materialised from?

The Internetz.

why not have no designers. No MTB's

I'm pretty sure the engineers could manage that one without any input from the designers. There might be a bit of a lack of last year's model with some tweaks and a new [s]paintjob[/s] colorway to make you want a new one if that bothers you though.

What most graphic designers aren't learning is the technical side of the job. Stuff like using the computer programmes and how to output to print etc. These are learnt on the job.

What they do learn is more the art side and theoretical side etc

It sounds like the degree programme needs rewriting.

Why stop there, why not have no designers. No MTB's, no cars, no clothes......

No, we can just stop with Graphic Designers. It's not an all or nothing choice.

I didn't realise we were voting on the abolishment of Graphic Designers. Where do I sign?
😉

I'm joking. I'm not saying that Graphic Designers don't have worth in Society, of course they do, but so do Binmen and most people, given the choice of what society could lose would probably choose graphic designers to be given the chop over binmen.

It's a false opposition to compare a binman to a designer but I still think it's reasonable that binmen should earn more than a Junior Designer.

but I am a heart surgeon

So, no adverts, no magazines, no newspapers, no labels on products etc

We'd have all of those, they'd just be less pretty.

Why stop there, why not have no designers. No MTB's, no cars, no clothes......

We'd have all of those, they'd just be less pretty.

And where do you think this website materialised from?

The designer coloured it in, they didn't make it.

B ark.

It sounds like the degree programme needs rewriting.

Funny, that's exactly what I thought when I graduated and entered the real world.

Sounds like an OK wage for a junior position to me.

It sounds like the degree programme needs rewriting.

Yep - my BA tought all theory, and how to critique your and others work. Luckily I worked in a repo house alongside doing my degree, so got to learn all the technical stuff from there. Pretty much walked into a job as soon as I left Uni.

Degree course touch on the technical side, but very briefly - they'd be better to include a module to place students for at least a month as a repo house or similar.

Took me a year to get a job remotely doing what I wanted, and that paid, wait for it, £8.5k!

My first job in IT (helpdesk circa 1992) paid £7,500. I found out later that I was one of the highest paid new starters they'd ever taken on.

STW is small business, you need to watch your overheads.

Staff costs are usually one of the biggest

They look like a great company to work for with certain lifestyle benefit (assumption only)

The job title says Junior

Juniors tend to need more time investment and coaching

16k seems okay to me, can't see the problem

I'm pretty sure the engineers could manage that one without any input from the designers. There might be a bit of a lack of last year's model with some tweaks and a new paintjob colorway to make you want a new one if that bothers you though.

Left to the engineers we'd still be riding around on steel rigid bikes with thumb shifters and U brakes....
Still having as much fun though so maybe not a bad thing. Perhaps it's time to give up on product design and become a personal trainer.

Tis only a mountain bike mag too; it's not like they'll have to design an Olympic logo or anything...

Indeed aracer

Left to the engineers we'd still be riding around on steel rigid bikes with thumb shifters and U brakes....

I think you're getting confused about the input engineers and designers have to product development.

[i]Left to the engineers we'd still be riding around on steel rigid bikes with thumb shifters and U brakes....[/i]

Yes, the impact of graphic designers on bicycle technology is criminally under-rated... 🙄

After three years at uni, I was thrown straight into doing exactly the same job as highly experienced staff.

Yeah but Mike you were taught by Teachers to do Teaching? (might be wrong, assumptions again) So you'd expect them to totally up to speed as to what is required.

Problem is Uni's are behind industry with the courses they just don't move fast enough. (old techniques, old software) Especially in digital industries which are moving so fast that it's hard for companies to keep up.

We are seeing computer science grads still using tables in HTML still 😐

I've just learnt the hard way that its not all about the money.....

Unless things change considerably in the next 6-7 years I will be actively discouraging my daughter to go to Uni, unless of course she really wants to. Both me and Mrs STR have our own businesses, left school at 16 and seem to be doing ok.

We are seeing computer science grads still using tables in HTML still

Indeed - had numerous job applicants saying they 'proficient with table based layout' 😯

Oh well, so the only job really worth anything are being a binman & brain surgeons then! I'm sure we could do without most jobs that people on here do!

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - I'm with you on this one. I'd say that the amount of debt a degree will leave you in is never going to give you that much benefit in a career like graphic design.

What would you be looking at now £50k of debt? And I can't see a starting salary above what we're talking about here

I think ultimately, what we're witnessing now is the complete restructuring of our entire education system. The implications are going to be HUGE within say ten years

I'm sure we could do without most jobs that people on here do!

Yep, my job is pointless, it's like the arms race though in that way. We'd all have to agree to stop.