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How many of these would it take to put the average male over the drink driving limit?
Context - End of the day, drinking during a 1hr train journey before getting behind the wheel and driving from the station and DEFINITELY not me.
I'm going for one
It's 5%, so pretty similar to beer. 3 would probably be fine legally. 4 might be over
In scotland less than one. England maybe 1.5 but very variable.
Where is the 'average male' going to drive? The limit is lower in Scotland than in the rest of the UK (I’m assuming UK).
There is no hard and fast rule. Build, food, tolerance to alcohol all have an impact and probably other factors like the weather!
assuming you are asking about the English drink drive limit that is 5% (so about the same as a reasonably strong beer) but is only 250mL so is about the equivalent to 1/2 pint of beer. Crudely many people assume an adult male can consume 1pt and be fine. Hardened drinker drivers possibly claim double that. I wouldn’t be driving after 4 cans of that though!
If you have alcohol and drive then you’re a ****.
In scotland less than one. England maybe 1.5 but very variable
This IMO.
I’d say in the context you’ve given; 3 and you’d be over, 2 pushing it and 1 OK.
RM.
For most adults who like to have a bottle of wine every now and then , then drinking one or two of these in an hour before driving is probably no more dangerous than taking your eyes off the road to change your radio station.
ps. I don’t drink drive ! And think that the drink drive limit should be changed to a zero tolerance level. Just so there is no doubt.
The save amount of alcohol you can drink before driving is, none. Zero. **** all.
2 and you might be ok, legally. 3 and i reckon your over.
I know it's not your question but I hate it when people i know try to guess how much they can drink and still drive. Imo it is not worth playing such a risky/stupid game. Just do t drink if you are driving, problem solved.
2 pints is the limit. So 3-4 of those is fine.
5thElefant - no it’s not the prescribed limit (in E&W) is:
80 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood, 35 microgrammes per 100 millilitres of breath or 107 milligrammes per 100 millilitres of urine.
some people possibly can drink two pints and be under the limit, others will not.
2 pints is the limit.
Do people actually believe this is correct ?
1.25 units per can.
Should take about five or six to make sure for most people.
The drink drive limit is too high, and anyone who reckons they blew just over after only having two pints is a ****ing liar.
How many did he have? Impairment would begin with the first. 💡
Do people actually believe this is correct ?
Clearly some do. The limit is of course based upon a quantified amount of alcohol per unit of blood, breath or urine.
What it should be set at is debatable. Whilst there's an apparent gain to be had (at least in terms of personal virtue signalling) in advocating for a zero level, this needs to be put into a more holistic context of factors influencing road safety. As with speed, just because BAC is easy to measure doesn't necessarily mean zero tolerance would actually improve road safety above a low tolerance limit at a scientifically proven level. More effective driver education on the dangers of distraction, and a stronger policing presence to deter dangerous / lazy driving e.g. tailgating are possibly more effective overall.
Surely the end goal is to reduce the number of road injuries and fatalities by the most effective means. Reducing the limit to zero will have no effect on the **** heads who already drive whilst over the limit (which is at present quite high relative to other jurisdictions). What it would do is criminalise anyone who has a small glass of wine with their Sunday dinner. Pretty much the same outcome as continually dropping speed limits on rural roads - this has no effect on knob heads who treat it like their personal racetrack and end up backwards round a tree, but it does impact on those who drive carefully to the conditions.
On my commute I used to see people putting away 4 or 5 cans of Stella although not to my stop (at the end of the line) so less than 1 hour but the train company either started stopping people or put a limit on as the amounts seemed to have dropped down
as others have said impairment starts at 1
how many did you see drunk?
Impairment starts well under the English limit
As two or three others have pointed out...Impairment starts well under the English limit
s4 Influence of drink or drugs
Nobody can say how many drinks will put you over the limit (which is a number derived from US research part-funded by the Licensed Beverage Industry in 1964)
the prescribed limit (in E&W) is:
80 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood
So, if you multiply that by 1000:
80 grammes of alcohol per 100 litres of blood.
The alcohol won't be distributed evenly throughout the body, I guess the bones don't absorb much, but it will be spread through the blood, muscle, and fat cells. If we assume that it is evenly spread through about 50 kg of watery tissue in an average male, then you have a ballpark figure of 40 grammes of alcohol to reach the legal limit.
One can of that contains 12.5 millilitres of alcohol, so about 10 grammes. Therefore, probably two cans is legal for someone weighing 75 kg or so, three maybe legal, four would be doubtful.
That's obviously the legal limit, not what it's advisable to do.
Drink driving is bad but according to people here, but you can have as much cannabis as you like
Depends Chris Froome could have 30 and be under the limit!
Yeah, but he metabolizes it differently.
Nobody can say how many drinks will put you over the limit
I think thats part of the rationale for lowering the limit north of the border. Its not a 'zero' as there can be trace levels of alcohol in all sorts of thing but in practical terms if you're thinking of drinking before you drive it might as well be zero.
In England the limit is high enough that it allows you to think theres a 'safe' amount of alcohol to drink but no-one can tell you what that is - you can measure how much you have in your system after you've drunk it but you can't say to the population at large ' X pints is ok '
People broadly have a perception of what they think is ok - and that is really base on what they've gotten away with so far - so then they are sure its OK and that whatever they drink is the correct amount - or 'what they can handle' if it seems to be a bit more than their friends think. However - count the instances in your driving career when you've be breathalysed- you've pretty much got zero evidence to draw on as to what the quantity you drink would have on the outcome of being tested.
What starts people on a path to drink driving is the sense that theres an 'ok' amount of alcohol to drink - that you can have that pint, or two, with the lads after work and not have to bugger about with taxis. Sometimes someone will buy you that extra drink, and you shouldn't really but..... And the drive home terrified they'll get caught. And they don't. And next time theres a transgression - its ok again. The reality is the chances of getting into any kind of bother are really slim. Driving becomes no inconvenience to drinking and because they have the evidence of their own experience that they've got away with it they form the opinion that 'they can handle it'. Then it goes wrong.
Every drink driver stopped will tell the police that they haven't had that much to drink - and in plenty of cases they probably genuinely believe that.
I'd be really interested in the data surrounding the shift in the limit in Scotland. What percentage of drivers stopped prior to the limit being lowered had alcohol limits below the old limit but above the new limit. And what percentage of drivers now have a level above the old limit.
I'm still amazed that people even contemplate having any alcohol when driving now. Take the guesswork out of it and have none.
if you're driving you don't drink simple.
if you are drinking and you are thinking about driving next day, don't. I've seen too many aftermath of DD
I guess the bones don’t absorb much
well my legs go all wobbly so I think they do 🙂
North Wales police stopped a driver last week who gave a 233 reading 😕 how many of them would he have needed.
https://twitter.com/CMPG/status/1014952082422550528?s=19
Middle of the drink drive campaign and we've stopped a speeder at 110mph on the M6 in @StaffsPolice area. Driver under arrest after blowing over 5 times (!) the drink drive limit at the roadside.. shocking..
#fatal4
I reckon underlying dehydration will leave quite a few folk close to the mark after a couple of those.
I’m still amazed that people even contemplate having any alcohol when driving now.
Why? Within the limit it's perfectly legal to do so.
End of the day, drinking during a 1hr train journey before getting behind the wheel and driving from the station and DEFINITELY not me.
As a daily rail commuter I always wonder how the 'tins of M&S lager on a Tuesday' crew are getting home from the station. Doubt it's by bike.
Do people actually believe this is correct ?
You don't have to be intelligent to have a belief.
Why? Within the limit it’s perfectly legal to do so.
maybe legal, but with so much guessing involved how much a person drink to be under why bother. if you really need a drink of alcohol that bad maybe it's time to rethink your life.
Yes im amazed people are prepared to lose their life/job or worse kill an innocent person just because they fancy one for the road.
if you've dealt with as many RTCs involving DD as I have you wouldnt DD.
Holy hell, there’s no WAY I would drive after two pints!
2 pints is the limit. So 3-4 of those is fine.
got to be trolling
With sleep deprived or distracted driving being just as dangerous as drink driving, the sooner we have autonomous vehicles, the safer we'll all be.
Out of interest, does anyone here that has a zero alcohol policy also never drive tired?
I had a pint of ordinary pub bitter shandy the other day (4%) and I certainly didn't feel safe when I drove afterwards. And normally I'm not an especially light drinker either. Won't be doing that again.
maybe legal, but with so much guessing involved how much a person drink to be under why bother. if you really need a drink of alcohol that bad maybe it’s time to rethink your life.
Ah good, the alcohol is bad mmmkay response. I see rational debate on this is unlikely to happen
if you’ve dealt with as many RTCs involving DD as I have you wouldnt DD.
How many were under the limit but alcohol noted as a contributory factor vs how many RTCs are there caused by other factors that should be more heavily educated / policed out? Are we trying to stop people who have a small drink driving per se, or are we actually trying to improve road safety. Because frankly if you think criminalising a responsible person who has a small glass of wine with a meal out will result in better road safety outcomes than actually policing inattentive / tired / careless driving then I'm afraid you may fail in that greater goal.
I’d stick to one myself.
Mostly I think because if you want a nice drink after work then I suppose it’s okay, but if you want multiple it seems you’re chasing a buzz and that’s pretty incompatible with driving.
How many were under the limit but alcohol noted as a contributory factor vs how many RTCs are there caused by other factors that should be more heavily educated / policed out?
You do realise that it’s possible to do both right?
Hols2 - are you an elephant? We don’t have 100L of blood in our bodies - it’s more like 5! The alcohol doesn’t spread into the mass of the tissue like you think it does, but most of if we piss straight back out. Trying to do calculations like this is where people go wrong and find themselves in bother. Forensic toxicologists struggle to give a reliable estimate even when very well funded to get a client off!
Mostly I think because if you want a nice drink after work then I suppose it’s okay, but if you want multiple it seems you’re chasing a buzz and that’s pretty incompatible with driving.
This
You do realise that it’s possible to do both right?
Within a fixed budget for road safety? Probably not.
I've seen a guy crack into a 5th on the 1 hour train ride home before, he goes to the stop before me and I hope to God he doesn't drive afterwards.
I’m still amazed that people even contemplate having any alcohol when driving now.
Agreed - I like to have a beer or three to *feel* the effects of alcohol - and if I can feel the effects of the alcohol then I can't possibly be in a fit state to drive.
Why? Within the limit it’s perfectly legal to do so.
The problem is, there is no clear limit - what some 20st Geordie bricky could put away and be 'under' the limit would be way different to what I could have (being a 10.5st midget). It's easier just not to drink at all and take away any doubt.
For those who say its unsafe to drive with any alcohol, do you never drive while tired, dehydrated, hungry, distracted by music, radio, conversation, eating etc?
Agreed – I like to have a beer or three to *feel* the effects of alcohol
And in that case of course driving should be out of the question. However I, and many others have grown up a bit and also like to drink a beer or glass of wine for its taste. Often slowly, and with a meal.
Depends Chris Froome could have 30 and be under the limit!
Whilst I realise that's joke, it's a relevant point. If I'd just ridden 100 miles, one beer would probably make me feel pretty tipsy, but I might need 3 or 4 for the same effect when well-hydrated. I wonder if BAC correlates with this sensation. I would guess not.
However I, and many others have grown up a bit and also like to drink a beer or glass of wine for its taste. Often slowly, and with a meal.
But it's still alcohol and therefore still a risk. Not sure how you think you have 'grown up a bit' yet still think it's okay to drink then drive.
We don’t have 100L of blood in our bodies – it’s more like 5!
You obviously didn't read what I said, which was not that we have 100 liters of blood. Alcohol is metabolized in different parts of the body, which means that it must be dispersed around the body. It doesn't just stay in the blood and then get excreted. If it just stayed in the blood, then a single drink would put any human way over the legal limit.
As a ballpark figure, for an average male, the alcohol cannot be dispersed through more than about 50 kgs of watery tissue. That's an upper limit, so from that, you can estimate that drinking more than a couple of cans of that drink before driving is not a good idea.
But it’s still alcohol and therefore still a risk. Not sure how you think you have ‘grown up a bit’ yet still think it’s okay to drink then drive.
Try reading my other posts on this thread for context, then have another go, eh?
Try reading my other posts on this thread for context, then have another go, eh?
I have read your comments and all you seem to argue is that it is okay to drink if you don't drink too much because other people cause accidents even though they haven't been drinking because they are ****s so why criminalise having a small drink?
But no-one is criminalising having a drink and staying under the limits, although some on hear are pointing out that it could be argued that avoiding alcohol completely is a more sensible option than risking it and having a small glass of wine slowly over a meal. And remember that all the potential factors aren't exclusive - there could be tired **** drivers behind the wheel after that one small glass of red.
Why on earth would you want to drink that anyway? That’s the question we should be asking?
i suggest you have a manly pint of lager, craft ale, or a bottle of single malt instead.
Out of interest, does anyone here that has a zero alcohol policy also never drive tired?
Or stressed, or distracted.
The number of things that make your driving "as bad as being over the drink drive limit" is shocking, and the number of other factors beyond them is numerous. If a mate said he'd be fine after having 4 pints over the course of an evening, I'd tell him he was wrong and advise him against it. If he'd had 1 pint with dinner early in the night and several hours later was thinking of driving I wouldn't be upset.
There are no absolutes, there's still a baseline risk, and people will still die on the roads even if we get autonomous vehicles on them. And yes any tragedy is a tragedy, but face it - having a drink is fun and social. It's not like stopping everyone ever having a drink would be a zero cost even if it did save huge numbers of lives (and if we're talking about staying under the drink drive limit, it wouldn't really save huge numbers of lives)
Furthermore, even if we switched to perfect non fatal autonomous vehicles tomorrow, there are several times more people killed by the pollution from cars than from RTAs, it's just less obvious as they die from other underlying conditions that are exacerbated by the pollution.
If I wanted to be sure to be under the limit, I'd buy a breathalyzer of my own. But we did have some handed out in the office a couple of years ago, and I managed to "pass" a breath test at the end of the staff Christmas do, after which there is no way I would have got in a car and driven. Not sure if it was because I'd googled how to get a low reading or whether it was a cheapo duff breath test, or just because my liver is better than I imagined at removing booze from my system, or a combination of the three.
And zero tolerance as others have said would outlaw a lot of puddings, even many things that might ferment a little tiny bit before you eat or drink them. The level in Scotland is to give the message that you shouldn't have a drink and then drive - I would be interested to see if it had an effect on people that drink drive anyway (including the morning after) - from observing driving around Christmas time, I suspect not much of an effect.
To the OP, probably 2. 5% is reasonably strong, and an hour is too short to rely on any alcohol coming out of the system.
For those who say its unsafe to drive with any alcohol, do you never drive while tired, dehydrated, hungry, distracted by music, radio, conversation, eating etc?
Where are you going with this? What's the goal here?
What’s the goal here?
A more holistic and less neurotic approach to road safety, I’d had thought. But you keep on believing zero alcohol will do more to reduce road casualties than addressing most of the other factors mentioned
Where are you going with this? What’s the goal here?
Internet points.
plyphon, the point I was seeking to draw out seems to have already been covered.
It's a bit like the helmet debate - focus on one and only one factor and the others get ignored => "reasonable and intelligent" people think everything is covered, when that is in fact bollocks.
Thanks (most of you, anyway!)
Safe to say that four of them would probably be over the limit, then? Factoring in the end of the day, hydration etc, it certainly sounds like too much.
Might just be having a chat with the local police peeps...
Safe to say that four of them would probably be over the limit, then? Factoring in the end of the day, hydration etc, it certainly sounds like too much.
And playing the radio.
https://sussex.police.uk/news/how-many-units-of-alcohol-will-make-you-over-the-drink-drive-limit/
Safe to say that four of them would probably be over the limit, then? Factoring in the end of the day, hydration etc, it certainly sounds like too much.
Yes, definitely
Safe to say that four of them would probably be over the limit, then?
I doubt it.
it certainly sounds like too much.
That's because it is too much.
Do people actually believe this is correct ?
Nope. It's probably higher. I once experimented with a digital breathalyser (issued to Mrs Daz as part of her work testing drug users for alcohol consumption) which are much more accurate than the ones the cops have. It didn't go over the legal limit til I drank 4 pints, and even then it only did so 50% of the time. It didn't consistently read above the limit until I'd had 6 pints. I'd never obviously test that in real life, but pretty confident 2 pints is fine if the being under the limit is all you're bothered about. Of course what you should really be considering is your ability to drive safely, and that is a much more subjective matter.
What was your blood results DazH?
How do you know the breathalyser your wife has is better and more accurate then the Police ones?
A more holistic and less neurotic approach to road safety, I’d had thought. But you keep on believing zero alcohol will do more to reduce road casualties than addressing most of the other factors mentioned
-----------
plyphon, the point I was seeking to draw out seems to have already been covered.
It’s a bit like the helmet debate – focus on one and only one factor and the others get ignored => “reasonable and intelligent” people think everything is covered, when that is in fact bollocks.
I'm not sure anyone on this thread is saying that as long as we all don't drink road traffic accidents will be reduced to 0.
I'm not sure anyone is arguing that, at all.
The Gods invented taxis, trains and buses for a reason.
Who can be arsed with one or 2 drinks anyhow?
Get rattled my friends, to hell with driving! 😆
The level in Scotland is to give the message that you shouldn’t have a drink and then drive – I would be interested to see if it had an effect on people that drink drive anyway (including the morning after) – from observing driving around Christmas time, I suspect not much of an effect.
Yes - the reduction is only about 1/3rd of the English limit but generally the marketing message not to drink at all seem to have been reasonably effective.
I don't have the stats to hand, and they need taken with a heap of scepticism as the detection rate is not necessarily correlated to the offending rate but the initial feedback was certainly that the detection rate dropped with the new limits (i.e. it seems fewer people were drinking and driving). As I recall the "morning after" rate was not so good - that is a harder message to get over, especially as there is not clear cut 100% robust rule to know if you are over the next day -- although obviously everyone who was caught "only had a few pints, the night before, and was in bed at midnight".
I would be interested to see if it had an effect on people that drink drive anyway
Dunno about people that drink and drive over the limit, but it had a massive affect on the 2 pinter population. People basically don't drink anything and drive anymore, least in my circle. I know that only anecdotal, but I think it'll be common.
God invented bicycles, taxis, trains and buses for a reason.
fify 😉
true, nothing funnier than trying to cycle up the road after 8 pints! 😆
God invented bicycles, taxis, trains and buses for a reason.
fify
That actually raises an interesting point. Some countries make no distinction between bikes and cars when it comes to drinking then riding/driving.
you can be hauled in front of the beak here for being drunk in charge of a bicycle but it's rarely enforce and you have to be monumentally pissed.
And drunk in charge of a horse.
I like a couple of beers before and even whilst driving. It relaxes me, makes me a better driver.
What I'm mainly getting from this is no-one really knows with so many variables... but there is a common sense verdict of "drink none would be your best bet".
If it just stayed in the blood, then a single drink would put any human way over the legal limit
and yet they'd be totally sober !
you can be hauled in front of the beak here for being drunk in charge of a bicycle but it’s rarely enforce and you have to be monumentally pissed.
Yes, in the UK. In other countries they’ve made the judgement that riding over the limit carries the same penalty as driving. Doubtless there are many people in those countries who would defend those laws on the basis of the mess a drunk cyclist makes if they wobble in front of a car, or force one to swerve and hit someone else.
Luckily there's no limit for cycling, horses or walking when pissed. I think this is reasonable, particularly for cycling and walking, given the vastly reduced risk to others from these activities.
A more holistic and less neurotic approach to road safety,
That's about it.
but there is a common sense verdict of “drink none would be your best bet”.
Well there is amongst most but others seem to think otherwise, the think why should this be the case when you be tired and drive.