[Closed] STW 2014/15 Rugby Thread

Are you getting w.spoon on it or just spoon?

After the mcBride program I'm claiming an Irish grand slam in 72 cause Wales and Scotland were too chicken to travel to Dublin, even though the trouble was up north. Loved McBrides quote to Iain Henderson, 'I miss the rucks'

Not at all aa. Schmidt is a pragmatic coach who will play to his strengths and do what it takes to beat the opposition. We haven't even started to play yet. The Irish Times this morning was talking to Murray and he intimated that there would br s bit more running rugby againstyou boys.

We have equalled our best run of results ever, beaten SA and Aus, and should have beaten NZ so we have moved on massively from the team that finished 5th two years ago. In Joe we trust!

I suppose so and hey your winning but I'm still waiting for Wales the bust out some variation in back moves 4 years later!

bit more running rugby againstyou boys

Hope so, might give us a chance. Your maul, lineout and breakdown work will be too much for us. Run around a bit and we have a punchers chance as we have players like North who can score tries in a blink if given space.

I'm happy with the way we play, I'm a prop so anything that goes to touch and cuts down the running was always good with me. Seriously, I'd love to see a bit more flair but I'll take a win first and foremost. North will be facing Bowe so I can't imagine he will get much space. But if Sexton is out he could do well inside against Madigan.

I have a feeling Williams played left wing and North right last week despite the numbers so it might be Zebo v North. Could be wrong though.

Yes of course you are quite right. I was thinking Cuthbert and North. Interestingly Murray mentioned how Zebo had improved his defence under Joe. I hope he is right!

I'd be surprised if Ireland try anything expansive and running against Wales at the millennium. As a_a says, there is a (perceived for now, but let's see on the day) advantage at the breakdown, maul, line-out and who knows, maybe even the scrum has been sorted out to at least parity rather than giving away penalties constantly, so I'd expect Joe to be pragmatic and exploit those. If the green machine start chucking it around, the Welsh back three could do some damage. After the second half against France, Wales should be starting favourites against Ireland. I expect Payne and Henshaw to be doing a bit of defence rather than anything fancy. I'm hoping for similar levels of discipline (as against England) anywhere within ½p range.

Who's the ref? 🙂

Steve Walsh I think 😆

He'll let the scrums go at each other and ping the losers and be much less inclined to ping holding on than Joubert was last week.

Steve Walsh I think

EDIT: Yep, you're right... http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/news/26947.php#.VPeIWLOsVHM

Seems that Steve Walsh has pulled out for "business reasons"
Wayne Barnes has been appointed according to Irish Times
[url= http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/wayne-barnes-appointed-as-replacement-referee-for-ireland-versus-wales-1.2127365 ]Offside line not important in Wales V Ireland[/url]

Meanwhile Walsh will be the man in the hotseat when the competition reaches its conclusion at Twickenham, when England will welcome France.

Luke Marshall banned for 5 weeks.
Shouldn't kick people in the head.

Shame. Because I'd have thought he might have been worth a go at 12 for Ireland before the end of the tournament,. Especially with payne injured.
IMO, Henshaw's an even better 13 than 12, so might have been a good combo.
And he's been good when I've seen him.
Interested what BM thinks, seeing him more for Ulster?

Luke Marshall banned for 5 weeks.
Shouldn't kick people in the head.

Waynne Barnes ffs!!
Business intrests my arse.

This is a good read http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-england-rucks-1971929-Mar2015/

Nice link that a_a

I thought Murphy had filled in well for Heaslip. Nice to see the numbers showing it.

Great link a_a

I can't find the link to the tackling stats across the 6N but Henshaw was top 5 for number of tackles across all 6 teams. What the Irish backs lack in running ability they make up for in defense so far! Really impressive stuff.

Half joking half serious... the Irish boys looked absolutely out on their feet on 65/70 minutes- something for the Welsh to potentially exploit? (obviously due to their vastly superior fitness* 😉 )

* that isn't that different to any other international side

The Marshall incident is at 54.50 on the game clock on this vid. Luke is certainly not a dirty player but I think it looks like a dragging foot on purpose when it is replayed. So fair enough IMO

As for Marshall playing for Ire, if he wasn't banned, I don't think his current form is good enough. 2 seasons ago he was playing really well and deserved his place but since then he has been very average. He has had a few injuries which has held him back a bit and of course competion from Olding and McCloskey. Olding is the best runner and natural footballer while McCloskey is bigger and more of an off loading type player. Of the three I have been most impressed with him this year.

For the Ire 13 I think Joe will go for Fitz. He is in good form and it means he won't need to move Henshaw to accommodate him. He doesn't tend to make too many positional changes.

The Steve Hansen Q&A: My fears for modern-day rugby and why we have a responsibility to get it right

Millions are going to be watching the World Cup, but rugby's showpiece event risks becoming a tedious affair, warns the All Blacks coach

While in Paris to cover last Saturday’s clash between France and Wales, rugby correspondent Simon Thomas bumped into an old familiar face in the shape of Steve Hansen.

He arranged to catch up with the New Zealand coach for a chat before he headed home down under and this is the end result.

It proved to be a eye-opening conversation, with the former Wales boss pulling no punches as he expressed his deep concern over the state of the game of rugby today.

Hansen also shared his thoughts on Warren Gatland’s Welsh team and next week’s huge Six Nations showdown with Ireland in Cardiff.

It’s an interview well worth casting your eye over.

What brings you to Europe? A fact-finding mission, a break or a bit of both?

I came to look at Wales play France in Paris and then Ireland against England in Dublin, so I just came for the weekend really.

What have you made of it?

It’s tough rugby, isn’t it? I thought the French-Welsh game was a very hard fought battle, with both sides really pushing the boundaries on defence and therefore there wasn’t much attacking rugby.

I’ve actually got big concerns about the game at the moment, because there are not enough tries being scored, which is turning the fans away.

We need to find more space, particularly around the rucks and the breakdown, as everybody is defending from an offside position.

If we don’t start creating a bit more space there, then we are not going to be able to play the game. France were offside all day against Wales I thought. What did you think, you were there?

There certainly wasn’t much free-flowing rugby. Defences are generally on top and players push the offside laws to the limit. What’s the solution? Is it as simple as referees dealing with it?

I think there’s a responsibility on the coaches and the players as well. We are all trying to get defensive lines up really quickly, but I think we’ve probably gone too far with it.

For the game to thrive, it’s got to be policed. The refs and touch-judges have got to police it and we as coaches and players, we’ve got to push to have people onside.

There’s a responsibility to the game. If we don’t do that, then we are not going to have any running rugby.

There were only three tries scored in the two games I went to over the weekend. No-one is prepared to take the risk, because they are going to get belted behind the advantage line if they move the ball.

It’s World Cup year and there’s a big focus on the game. Is it all the more important this gets addressed in time for that tournament?

I think so. If we want to encourage people to watch the game, then scoring tries is what does that. We can get blinded by a loyalty to our team or we can say to ourselves, is this really the game we want?

While defence is 50 per cent of the game, I think it’s a little bit like bowlers and batters in cricket.

If the wicket is designed for the bowlers, then the batters don’t have a chance.

Rugby at the moment is all geared to defences doing stuff that inhibits the attacking game, regardless of who it is.

There are so many people going off their feet at the breakdown and everybody has got their hands on the ground and they are allowing that to happen.

It’s slowing the ball down and if you slow the ball down people can get their defensive lines in place. And when they are two feet in front of where they should be, then there’s just no space.

Is that more of a problem in the north or is it a worldwide issue?

I don’t think you can isolate it and say it’s a northern hemisphere problem, it’s a problem in the game.

And if we don’t address it, then we are going to get very boring rugby matches.

Given what you have said there, what did you think of the Welsh performance in Paris?

I thought both sides were very willing and very physical, which is the nature of the game up here. It’s very combative, very strong and very hard-running into contact.

But in the games I’ve seen in this Six Nations, I haven’t seen teams wanting to move the ball because they know they can’t. It’s about planning the right kick next to win the game.

I think the Welsh have got a good back-line, but they are not prepared to use it because it’s too high risk.

In the sense they don’t often look to go wider than Jamie Roberts carrying up the middle?

Well, that’s what you are seeing, isn’t it? You saw that in the Ireland-England game as well.

The 12 or the 13 just carried it up.

When was the last time you saw a try being scored off a set-piece or a counter-attack?

It’s becoming harder and harder to do those things in the game, whether you are a northern hemisphere side or a southern hemisphere side.

And you think that's more about the game not being policed correctly, rather than well-organised defences?

I think it’s a combination of those things. But you keep hearing players say, let’s see how far they can push the law. So it’s too easy just to blame the refs. Somewhere along the line we’ve got to say look, the game is more important than this and we’ve got to do something about it.

I find it ironic that we are made to go back five metres from the scrum, ten metres from the line-out, but in the breakdown we allow people to slow the ball down and allow the defensive lines to be in front of the last man seen.

There’s a massive emphasis at the moment on the scrum, but there’s probably about 18 scrums in a game. How many breakdowns are there? 300?

Yes, it feels like that!

Well there is and that’s the problem.We have to get the tackle area and the offside area sorted and, like the scrummaging, it can’t just be the referees. It’s got to be player and coach-driven and then policed by referees.

The breakdown is the same.

We are about to go into a showpiece for the game at the World Cup.

There are going to be millions and millions of people watching it and then all you are going to see is people kick goals.

Every scrum ends up in ref giving a penalty.

Every breakdown is about slowing the ball down to the point where you can’t attack, so you’ve got to kick it. Is that what rugby is about?

You must have conversations with fellow coaches about this. Do they feel the same way as you?

I’m not sure. Obviously it’s got to a point where we need to speak about it.

You watched Wales and Ireland win at the weekend. They face each other in Cardiff next week. Where would your money be for that game?

Well, Wales have got the home advantage, but it’s a really tough game for both sides. Ireland aren’t going to play much rugby.They are going to try and play a game that suits them.

They will kick into the corners, they will box kick, they’ll kick from Jonny Sexton and they’ll wait for you to make mistakes and kick penalties, as happened against England.

They waited for England’s indiscipline, so Wales will have to make sure they keep their discipline and take the high balls in the air.

If they can manage to do that, then there you go.

I sense you suspect it won't be a game full of tries or a feast of running rugby?

No. I’d like to see it, but I doubt it. They are both very good defensive sides.

I am not knocking the defence for what it is. All I am saying is you also have to be behind the last man seen.

You make your own judgement.

You look at how many games there are when they are not and how often they are not.

If people can slow the ball down, you don’t need everybody in the defensive line, you can put more into the breakdown.

If we can speed the breakdown up and clean that up, you would have de-stabilised defensive lines, they wouldn’t be able to put those men in the breakdown, so it’s a catch 22.

Is it as simple as saying more emphasis needs to be given to the attacking side at the breakdown?

The emphasis needs to be put on people being onside. In my humble opinion, that’s the job of the refereeing assistants. The line is set by those people.

That one or two metres where people are allowed to step up at the ruck will certainly mean something in the middle of the park. And it needs to be addressed.

Look, I’m not bagging any of the teams or how they play up here.

Please don’t think that’s what I am saying. But there are some things as a sport we have to address, otherwise our game will become a negative sport rather than a positive one.

He has a point

Rugby at the moment is all geared to defences doing stuff that inhibits the attacking game, regardless of who it is.

Very true. Rugby is in danger of killing itself. Conditioning and physical prowess takes some of the blame. Go to the US to see the dull denouement.

No wonder we have data overload and pseudo science. The two decimal places analysis giving this absurd attempt to pass off noise as analysis. So Ireland had an extra 0.32 of a man at each ruck. No wonder they won!!! 😉

International rugby, bought to you by Apple Mac....

There are so many people going off their feet at the breakdown and everybody has got their hands on the ground and they are allowing that to happen.

Time for simple no hands rule? Back to good old fashioned rucking. Why? It speeds up the game and will make it safer. Look at the clips above and the extreme vulnerability of the bodies of the defenders. Neck and back poised to get smashed. Forget concussion, this will be the next big source of major injuries.

Good luck to any team that finds a plan that gets results. But I miss the joys of seeing the Irish and French back lines attacking at speed and from depth. That was beautiful rugby. Sexton should remember that few people look back on Rob Andrew with gushing love. Effective and clinical yes, but exciting. Ask Chippy Barnes!!!!

there are not enough tries being scored, which is turning the fans away.

We need to find more space, particularly around the rucks and the breakdown, as everybody is defending from an offside position.

Jordi Murphy's potential vulnerability in that first clip??? White 6 just smashes into a prone spine (ineffectively but that doesn't matter). Shudders.....

What we need is a team to volunteer to play it like the golden days of the seventies and eighties. I remember 5N games finishing 9-6. They were brilliant. The players were like lightning. Some people say the footage is a bit blurred because of the poor quality of recording equipment but it was the players. They were like gazelles. Could have watched them all day. And fly halves should be made to toe poke their penalty kicks. Loved watching those kicks.

I hope the not enough tries mantra is something being repeated next week.....Alas I can't see it...

DM, as a ref what's you take in the offside points being made. Seems to be prevalent with kicking too? What are the guidelines (or red lines) officially?

Thanks BM.
I guess it was a while back when I saw him playing really well, not seen so much recently, but what you've said makes sense with him dropping out of the Ireland running.
Agree with you, likely to be Fitz if Payne doesn't make it too.
Playing well enough, but Joe does seem to want to give Payne and Henshaw every chance to establish a partnership as 12 & 13, so hopefully he's fit again by next week.
Can't see Joe moving Henshaw at all, really. Think he sees him as the WC 12 and will give him as much practice there as possible. Got to admit he is playing well there, especially in defence. Guess this would be the last game they'd wand to risk losing that, with Jamie Roberts on the way.

Funny how it always seems to be the Game of Rugby that needs to change in the weeks after an England loss.
😉

Funny how it always seems to be the Game of Rugby that needs to change in the weeks after an England loss.

teamhurtmore - Member

Offside is easy,call the man you think is the back line and if anybody is in front,they are offside.So if the no 8 is at the back foot;
"Nobody in front of 8,thanks gents!" Players will at the very least take a step for a second,any 9 worth his salt will use that and we can play rugby. However you have to also trust your tj's to mark the line. I used to ask mine to stand on the offside line,so if a winger is creeping up for a 9 kick,he can mark it.I was a big fan of proactive reffing,I would tell the captains that my TJ's would mark the offside lines.HOWEVER;at pro level... there is instruction that you shouldn't do this as pro players (and refs) should understand the rules 100% and anybody a mm offside is doing it on purpose. My first appraisal in a Magners game as a TJ said just that.
Both teams were at it on Sun,including my pet hate,bound to the ruck with a hand,5m in front of the rest of his onside(ish) team mates.

Its crazy that tj's at pro level cannot flag offsides.

Blues try in the 87th min wins them the game tonight. Fantastic last 10 mins or so.

So this Francis fella from Exeter who has been added to welsh squad. Any good? I sense a cap in the italy game coming along.

Quiet in here since England lost isnt it!!

Yep, I am feeling a thread on the proposed Labour/SNP pact coming up,that should tempt them out.

Wales unchanged 15.

Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), George North (Northampton Saints), Jonathan Davies (ASM Clermont Auvergne), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, CAPT), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).
Replacements: Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Rob Evans (Scarlets), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets).

Heaslip, SOB, Payne and Sexton passed fit for Saturday.

Pleased to see Rob Evans on the bench. Hope its a good game.

Always though of him as a rose tinted ****!!

Nsfw link rude word caution

Quiet in here since England lost isnt it!!

PS I fully expect us to lose one of the next games, probs the france one as scotland always choke at twickers.

Rowntree is a duff eared gimp isn't he, come on Scotland make him eat his words.
Is it any wonder that england rugby is so hated all over the world 😆

How was the Welsh side poor? had a shocking 40 mins after giving you the run around for the first 40 😆

Dull numptys forgot a match lasts for 80 minutes 😆

Well they only managed to play for 40 mins, and they chose the wrong 40 mins, thats pretty poor.

😆 so which 40 minutes should they have chosen?

Pigface are you saying that England beat a good quality side in Wales then?

The 2nd half, when they shipped all those points to England.

Rowntree is just trying to put pressure on his players as the pressure on them with be huge v aus and wales in world cup.