MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
BBC have got stuck on this as usual, but perhaps getting stuck on this is appropriate.
What do you think about the huge increases in student fees?
Personally, I think those people who got their degress for free all those years ago and who have had a fabulous career should cough up!
Police line's barely holding at Millbank
The Police management of the crowd has been expamplary so far. It must be difficult working in that situation, knowing that so many people are watching on TV, but who can't actually see the heated exchanges.
It's a great shame that a few idiots behave like this, because it discredits the majority who are only there for a peaceful demonstration.
And credit to the BBC for allowing the peaceful protesters to air their disgust about the violent minority. Quality reporting!
It's a great shame that a few idiots behave like this, because it discredits the majority who are only there for a peaceful demonstration.
True, but in such a tense situation, it's very easy to get caught up in the mass hysteria, and people often do stuff they would never do normally. It's a tremendous buzz, being in the middle of a riot; I used to 'enjoy' a good scuffle when I was a photography student; the more violent, the more exciting the pics. I'm the kind of person who would probbly have enjoyed a bit of football hooliganism. These days, I stay away from potential trouble, because I'm actually now quite fearful of mass crowds, violence and the potential for harm to myself. I am well aware of the destructive side of myself that loves a good pagga.
Good to see that so far, it's being reported as 'a few extremists intent on causing trouble', rather than 'rioting students'.
My fear now is that the police may decide to resort to the tried and tested 'kettling' tactics, which will surely result in things kicking off big time. I wonder if Sgt. Delroy Smellie is on duty today...?
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My fear now is that the police may decide to resort to the tried and tested 'kettling' tactics, which will surely result in things kicking off big time
That'll be a first. Doesn't kettling usually result in an inactive mob of sullen numpties who just want to go to the toilet, as in the "anti-capitalist" nonsense that used to get in everybody's way in that London?
as in the "anti-capitalist" nonsense that used to get in everybody's way in that London?
Din't get in my way, Woppit, and I live in London, whereas you don't so once again, my opinion is of far more importance than yours. 😉
Fancy a pint?
Beat them up, they should be at work, the filthy un washed.
Pint of Leffe please, seeing your asking.
the more violent, the more exciting the pics.
mate o mine took "that" pic of the lass swinging a scaffold pole at a copper at the poll tax riot. unfortunately her mum recognised her i the next day's paper, and shopped her!
Beat them up, they should be at work, the filthy un washed.
That's a bit harsh...
...I'm sure the police generally work very hard.
Leffe coming right up. Woppit?
Well of course they didn't get in MY way, just everybody WHO WAS THERE AT THE TIME (in capitals because you're obviously a ****wit).
Bob summers; this one?
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Great pic.
Must have calmed down - BBC reduced to showing 'earlier' pictures.
[Edit] Oooh, I was stood quite near there when that picture was taken. I did feel guilty aftewards as I my Mum was quite worried about me when she saw the news that evening. No mobiles in those days - I didn't phone her until the following day to say hello.
[Beach boys]It's student demonstration tiiiii-iiimee!!![/Beach boys]
Can't beat a good scuffle with the powers that be!
Like elfin I am now scared having received a sound kick in the chops from a mounted copper some years ago. Good luck to them.
Now now, Woppit; no need for insults.
just everybody WHO WAS THERE AT THE TIME
I was in London at the time, as were many people I know. They din't get in our way. 🙂
But then, people exercising their democratic right to protest never do.
Those bloody commuters from Surrey and that do though. Gits.
Wheres this London you speak of. 8)
Project; it's a little village in the South East of England, you know; that country what has the counties of Wales and Scotland in it. 🙂
I agree with their demo, but it would have been far more effective if it had been entirely without violence. There's always some that spoil things.
Elf, you still buying?
Pint of Badger, as you're twisting my arm.
Elfinsafety - Member
Project; it's a little village in the South East of England, you know; that country what has the counties of Wales and Scotland in it.Posted 2 minutes ago # Report-Post
So a totally insignificant placer then.
yep, that's it. he's still snapping for a living, google 'jim hodson photographer'.
Just passed some soap-dodgers walking along Fleet St carrying placards as I was returning from Starbucks </corporate-whore>
Pint of Bishop's. Double Glenlivet, water back.
Make it snappy.
There's no jobs for them now anyway so why do they need degrees? Apart from professional stuff (doctors, vets etc.) then why should the tax payer subsidise it? Now I'm a bit biased in that I started a degree, spent too much time in the pub and dropped out (huge waste of tax payers money I know), can't say it's held me back since though.
bob_summers - blimey,small world.I was at College with Jim and knew him well whilst in London.Lost touch since he went to Spain.
Poll tax riot was a great day indeed.
so if im a second year student... will i have to pay these silly fees next year then?
I understand their sentiment but they got the wrong building... they wanted Fred Goodwin's or Adam Applegarth's house
You might fall into the increased fee range but you don't actually start paying them back until you've got a job and earning > £21K
the new loan system will make it cheaper for more or less everyone.
i have no complaints about my student loan, or the repayment scheme, but i'd be very happy to have my debt transferred to the new system.
i really have no idea what they're complaining about - seriously.
i graduated 8 years ago, i have a debt of about £12,000 which is about the same as when i graduated. I will never clear my debt cos my repayments are about the same as the interest.
most graduates under the new scheme will also never clear their debt, but their repayments will be lower than mine, and they'll be waived sooner.
sounds bloody good to me...
millzy - Member
so if im a second year student... will i have to pay these silly fees next year then?POSTED 17 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
No. If it gets through Parliament it won't happen until the 2012/13 intake start.
the new loan system will make it cheaper for more or less everyone.i have no complaints about my student loan, or the repayment scheme, but i'd be very happy to have my debt transferred to the new system.
i really have no idea what they're complaining about - seriously
You want to pay triple the fees you're on now, and study a course which might face a net loss in funding ore student? E.g. Paying more to get less.
er, no.
i will never clear my debt, i haven't made a dent in it in 8 years. and i earn more or less exactly the national average (mean).
graduates under the new system will also most likely never clear their debt, but their monthly payments will be less than mine*, and the debt will be waived sooner.
can i transfer my debt to the new system please?
(*about £50 a month less = £600/year = £20,000 that i could stick in an isa)
the new system will really sting those who go on to earn £40k - £50k or more, but, quite frankly, i won't lose any sleep worrying about the poor lambs...
I agree with their demo, but it would have been far more effective if it had been entirely without violence.
like the peaceful anti-war marches were effective..? peaceful protest in this country is a farce
peaceful protest in this country is a farce
You want to try it in Burma/China/<insert other police state here>.
Heard it on the news this morning. Bit early for them I thought. Wolfie Smith would be proud, power to the people and all that 🙂
Thing I don't get is how they can skip classes. Likely to fail and have to resit and pay these fees next year. So stick in now, pass and save some money.
I liked that one chap had a placard simply saying 'i'm so angry I made a sign' . Awesome, he will go far I think 🙂
C.S gas mixed with water . that will move the em on , dirty unwashed , if the police go in with loads they get moaned , not enough they get moaned at,you wait when they have to start paying them selfs i bet there not pissing around in lundun.
i'd have gone and protested, but i was too busy with attending my actual lectures 😀
C.S gas mixed with water . that will move the em on , dirty unwashed , if the police go in with loads they get moaned , not enough they get moaned at,you wait when they have to start paying them selfs i bet there not pissing around in lundun.
You never went to uni, did you?
Did you actually attend school much?
bob_summers - blimey,small world.I was at College with Jim and knew him well whilst in London.Lost touch since he went to Spain.
aye, met him in spain (they're living in france now). turns out we used to sab the same hunts in essex, albeit a generation apart. small world indeed!
no i didnt go to school much and you by the sound of it, seen it again on the news no need for that leval of violence at all ,but cs gas mixed with water would have dispanded the crowd in double quick time.
Not suprised I believe they done the right thing
and hope they continue to do so.
Asking you to pay that much more when people are saying
for what they are paying now is not worth it!
[b]myheadsashed - Member[/b]Elfinsafety - Member
do we really need 50% of people to do so?
What we need is for our people to be educated to the standard they all deserve,[b]You went to uni?
You should be asking for your money back your command of the English language is sh1te....[/b]
[b]Elfinsafety - Member[/b]C.S gas mixed with water . that will move the em on , dirty unwashed , if the police go in with loads they get moaned , not enough they get moaned at,you wait when they have to start paying them selfs i bet there not pissing around in lundun.
[b]You never went to uni, did you?
Did you actually attend school much? [/b]
What's all this bollox asking people if they went to "uni" about then ?
Because the thread's about students protesting about University tuition fees, you plank. 🙄
IE; if someone's moaning about 'dirty unwashed' students, but has little or no idea about what they're actually protesting about, then it's relevant to talk about their education, isn't it?
Because the thread's about students protesting about University tuition fees, you plank.
Actually those two posts I copied were from two different threads.......obviously whether someone went to university has suddenly become important.
[b][i]"but has little or no idea about what they're actually protesting about"[/i][/b]
How the **** do you know scraprider has "no idea about what they're actually protesting about" ?
Do you have to go to university to be able to read the newspapers or watch TV ?
If daft dipsticks like you can get into university Effin, then it seriously questions the value of university education.
Seriously, Effinchafing went to Uni? 😯
I thought he [i]worked[/i] at one and, y'know, just pretended like...
I poo in my hand and throw it in your face.
Do you have to go to university to be able to read the newspapers or watch TV ?
No, but if you come up with statements such as :
C.S gas mixed with water . that will move the em on , dirty unwashed
It kind of marks you out as being a bit ignorant, no? Seeing students as some sort of 'undesirable' rabble without the right to protest is a bit narrow-minded and blinkered, I'd say. I mean, people are banging on about what was in reality a couple of hundred exuberant young people who were a bit worked up, when there were peaceful protests with thousands of others going on elsewhere.
Whenever someone advocates using the police as some sort of militia to clear the streets of those opposed to the ruling elite, then I'll challenge them. Unlike you who'd probbly advocate gunning them down and interning them in concentration camps you fascist.
People like you make me sick. You're an enemy of Democracy; why, you're nothing more than a terrorist.
some ones tired, what i seen on the news today mate was not protesting , it was rioting simple as that, i have no time for people that behave like that , maybe some of them need to go back to school to relearn the bacis of civlised life.
emma82 - Member
"I liked that one chap had a placard simply saying 'i'm so angry I made a sign' . Awesome, he will go far I think"
off topic but for the MPH Edinburgh march we had a "careful now" and a "down with this sort of thing" sign, and me in an Eric Cartman t-shirt "It's all just a bunch of tree hugging hippy crap". Some people didn't appreciate it much 😆 But to be fair there were about 50 sets of those signs.
Scraprider; it was a few dozen hooligans out of tens of thousands of peaceful protestors. What you saw was what the media found exciting, as the rest of the demo was probably quite boring by comparison. News reporters always look for the exciting stuff because it makes better telly.
And as someone who's been in a few riots; that today was pretty mild. A few windows smashed, a few bits of cardboard burnt. Relatively very little damage.
If you start using things like CS gas on people, then they will fight back with more force. The police were remarkably restrained, and I'd say they acted perfectly today, by the looks of things. Had they reacted with more force, as you seem to be advocating, then there would have been far more serious trouble.
As it is; a few broken windows, a bit of light damage to the building, but no serious injuries and no disproportionate police action. Not bad at all, I'd say.
Well Effin, I never thought I'd see the day when you said "I went to university so have the right to an opinion, you didn't go to university so therefore don't have a right to an opinion".
And as for your suggestion that not going to university "marks you out as being a bit ignorant". You've just proved that someone can be pig- ignorant, despite having gone to university.
Ignore him scraprider ......you are as entitled as anyone else to talk complete bollox.
you are as entitled as anyone else to talk complete bollox.
Never said he wasn't. Where did I say he din't have the right to talk bollox? Hmm?
I defend his right to talk bollox as much as yours.
You probbly want to lock up anyone what disagrees with you though. Fascist.
You're just bitter because you were turned down for Catering Management at Croydon Polytechnic in 1978...
What you saw was what the media found exciting, as the rest of the demo was probably quite boring by comparison. News reporters always look for the exciting stuff because it makes better telly.
You condescending and patronising ****er. Scraprider wants the police to steam into demonstrating students. What makes you think that it's because he doesn't [i]understand[/i] the situation ?
Where did I say he din't have the right to talk bollox? Hmm?
Well you're not going to say that ......are you ?
No, you would rather try to belittle him by asking him whether he's been to university.
You arrogant conceited over-inflated tw4t.
What did you study at university btw ? Go on.......givvus a laugh.
52,000 students.
35 arrests.
14 injuries.
You arrogant conceited over-inflated tw4t.
Ooh, resorting to insults now Ernie? I mustuv touched a nerve. 🙂
I did Sequin Sewing and Tweed Wefting at the London College of Fashion, if you must know. I spose now you're going to say that isn't a 'proper' degree... 🙄
If you actually read Scraprider's posts, you'll see that he/she is advocating the use of CS gas against people protesting.
But then, you probbly think that's acceptable, as you don't believe in Democracy.
Dunno if you considered this, but maybe if Scraprider had been to Uni, then he/she'd appreciate the student's need to protest about something that affects their education.
Just a thought, like.
London College of Fashion
Really ? I thought it cookery. So anyway.......that gives a moral superiority which allows you to have an opinion does it ?
[b][i]"If you actually read Scraprider's posts"[/i][/b]
Yes I have, and I don't agree with them.
Which I don't mind telling him.
But I don't need to resort to claiming that I'm cleverer or better educated than him. Neither of which I would be able to confirm anyway.
So anyway.......that gives a moral superiority which allows you to have an opinion does it ?
Yes.
Good night Ernie, sleep tight.
X
I went and protested, I personally believe in lower (if not no) University fees for all... I'm currently at Uni and our SU organised us going down.
Most of the demo was pretty placid tbh, from my point of view anyway. It got ugly when we passed Millbank and people started getting in.. from what I saw, there was a definate minority breaking in. Although the mob mentality had people cheering, very few people actually joined in.
I personally went in, with my camera (photos here if you're interested: [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/k_scars/sets/72157625357668630/ ]My Flickr[/url])
Because I wasn't being directly violent the police had no problem with me being there, in fact didn't even mind their pictures taken!
Luckily the protest coincided with my reading week so I didn't have to skip lectures, and I enjoyed going, it's just a shame that the actions of a definate few are what is going to be on people's minds rather than the issue behind it all.
it's just a shame that the actions of a definate few are what is going to be on [s]people's[/s] arrogant knee jerking morally outraged sheeple's minds rather than the issue behind it all.
HTH
Lifer - Member
52,000 students.35 arrests.
14 injuries.
52,000 students and lecturers.
It was jointly organised by the NUS and UCU. I had to teach otherwise i would have been there.
very little has been achieved by peaceful protest without civil disobedience – 1 million marched against the war – they ignored them
Getting all rioty is a better way of holding the government to account and making them listen than tutting and writing a letter to the Guardian
The system will ignore the issue for a bit and just discuss about peacful protest v direct action . The right to peacful protest is a little like insisting we have the human right to be ignored by our government direct action is more effective if also more unpalatable to some peoples' sensibilities
Elfinsafety this sums it up quite nicely.
KKF; that article's probbly written by someone who went to college/uni, and quite frankly, isn't worth reading as it's so predictably full of tired old stereotypes and clichés.
Going to university should not be seen as some affluent, 'Middle-Class' privilege; it should be seen as something attainable to anyone regardless of background. Articles like that Daily Mash one just perpetuate a redundant old myth.
Jesus, the Conservatives are an evil bunch of bastards.
true up to a point elfin but it was funny and like most satire it had a point.
The "not so" funny point is that i have three teenage kids that all want to go to Uni FFS !!! Im not protesting as it will do **** all.
Seriously looking at apprenticeship based jobs for them, let the employer pay for the fee's, not sure if its the right way but its an option.
Apprenticeships eh? Best of luck with that.
When do you think you are, the 1960s?
This has been brewing for a long time, ever since Blair's regime started setting targets for the number of people he wanted to pump through Uni.
Now that, that has proven to be unaffordable idealism, it's down to the current lot to take the flak. We are all in this together and if that means a few people can't go to Uni, then that's fair enough in my book.
Kids have been brought up to expect top go to Uni, this is wrong in my opinion. Going to Uni should be for the cream of Britain in every field - not every Tom, Dick and Harry. When I started work in '98 having a degree in my field guaranteed a certain starting salary. But nowadays they're so common and many so pointless, that most Graduates come in on piffling salaries.
A Degree should be a gold standard that sets a Graduate apart. We need to get back to that and with fewer people going to University full stop. Besides, it's not as if there aren't alternatives - Open University is significantly cheaper than a Campus Uni for example.
http://www.cityam.com/news-and-analysis/allister-heath/why-protesters-need-reality-check
Hunt saboteurs are delusional half-wits, BTW.
Jimmer- the problem isn't the numbers but that it will price those capable of doing extremely well at uni out of the system. I'm doing well at uni and wouldn't have gone if it cost what it's going to. Same goes for a lot of my friends. I work to fund my way through as well as help from family and the SLC, but the new limits will mean the brightest kids are not given the opportunity to go to the best uni. Wealthy tory types will get places because they can afford it and the country will go down the shitter.
So, did you actually read the link I just posted up?
(shouting)
THE NEW SYSTEM WILL MEAN MOST PEOPLE END UP PAYING A LOT [b]LESS[/b]!
DID YOU YOU HEAR ME? - LESS!
FFS.
and breathe.
People love to get on their high horses when violence occurs in protests...
If you cared enough about something im sure you would go smash up a building to make your point.
Im going to say - i dont think smashing up a conservative building was at all wrong. They deserved it.
Before anyone tries to put words in my mouth im not condoning violence to another man, that is another matter. Perhaps this will make cleggy and cameron realise they are idiots. I doubt it though.
Nah, I only read what jimmer said.
I had a read now and disagree completely- education isn't meant to be a money spinner. It's there to allow smart people to flourish and do better. No university is "losing" money, they're propped up by the government that should want a well educated society that's attractive to foreign businesses, not a well educated minority and hopeless lower classes that're bound into a social class because opportunities are lost to them.
At the minute I'm teaching at a high school in a not very well off area. 6 of the kids in the class of 20 want to go on and do geology degrees. Because of the changes only a couple can afford to. These are kids that wouldn't have gone to uni if they hadn't found such pleasure and done so well at this subject. Now the opportunities for them to go are being shut down.
someone earning an average salary of about £26k will pay £500 a year in repayments under the new system.
they currently pay £1100 a year.
Spokes, i'm talking to you now; the new system will mean more or less everyone pays A LOT LESS.
And how much will they pay in total?
The idea of having that much debt for people from the sort of background the tories want to stamp out is a massive issue, perceived or otherwise, and WILL prevent a lot of people who should be going to uni from going while allowing wealthy kids with lower grades to toddle in and do subjects like Social Anthropology.
Jimmer- the problem isn't the numbers but that it will price those capable of doing extremely well at uni out of the system. I'm doing well at uni and wouldn't have gone if it cost what it's going to. Same goes for a lot of my friends. I work to fund my way through as well as help from family and the SLC, but the new limits will mean the brightest kids are not given the opportunity to go to the best uni. Wealthy tory types will get places because they can afford it and the country will go down the shitter.
But you don't have to pay it at the time. You'll only ever pay off the lot if you earn tons of money, otherwise you just accept 10% less pay once you're earning over £21,000 a year, for the first 30 years after university. It's a graduate tax in disguise really, not them saying that to go to university you have to pay a massive amount of money up front.
This has been brewing for a long time, ever since Blair's regime started setting targets for the number of people he wanted to pump through Uni.
Isn't that an urban myth. I don't think there have ever been these targets. If anything, governments tell off universities for offering too many places, not for letting in too few people.
Also, you seem to be a bit confused suggesting that Blair was in charge of the big increase in university places - that was John Major in 1992, creating hundreds of new universities from polytechnics etc.
Joe
anyone who can't do the basic maths that £500 is less than £1100 is too stupid for university.