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Because the thread's about students protesting about University tuition fees, you plank.
Actually those two posts I copied were from two different threads.......obviously whether someone went to university has suddenly become important.
[b][i]"but has little or no idea about what they're actually protesting about"[/i][/b]
How the **** do you know scraprider has "no idea about what they're actually protesting about" ?
Do you have to go to university to be able to read the newspapers or watch TV ?
If daft dipsticks like you can get into university Effin, then it seriously questions the value of university education.
Seriously, Effinchafing went to Uni? 😯
I thought he [i]worked[/i] at one and, y'know, just pretended like...
I poo in my hand and throw it in your face.
Do you have to go to university to be able to read the newspapers or watch TV ?
No, but if you come up with statements such as :
C.S gas mixed with water . that will move the em on , dirty unwashed
It kind of marks you out as being a bit ignorant, no? Seeing students as some sort of 'undesirable' rabble without the right to protest is a bit narrow-minded and blinkered, I'd say. I mean, people are banging on about what was in reality a couple of hundred exuberant young people who were a bit worked up, when there were peaceful protests with thousands of others going on elsewhere.
Whenever someone advocates using the police as some sort of militia to clear the streets of those opposed to the ruling elite, then I'll challenge them. Unlike you who'd probbly advocate gunning them down and interning them in concentration camps you fascist.
People like you make me sick. You're an enemy of Democracy; why, you're nothing more than a terrorist.
some ones tired, what i seen on the news today mate was not protesting , it was rioting simple as that, i have no time for people that behave like that , maybe some of them need to go back to school to relearn the bacis of civlised life.
emma82 - Member
"I liked that one chap had a placard simply saying 'i'm so angry I made a sign' . Awesome, he will go far I think"
off topic but for the MPH Edinburgh march we had a "careful now" and a "down with this sort of thing" sign, and me in an Eric Cartman t-shirt "It's all just a bunch of tree hugging hippy crap". Some people didn't appreciate it much 😆 But to be fair there were about 50 sets of those signs.
Scraprider; it was a few dozen hooligans out of tens of thousands of peaceful protestors. What you saw was what the media found exciting, as the rest of the demo was probably quite boring by comparison. News reporters always look for the exciting stuff because it makes better telly.
And as someone who's been in a few riots; that today was pretty mild. A few windows smashed, a few bits of cardboard burnt. Relatively very little damage.
If you start using things like CS gas on people, then they will fight back with more force. The police were remarkably restrained, and I'd say they acted perfectly today, by the looks of things. Had they reacted with more force, as you seem to be advocating, then there would have been far more serious trouble.
As it is; a few broken windows, a bit of light damage to the building, but no serious injuries and no disproportionate police action. Not bad at all, I'd say.
Well Effin, I never thought I'd see the day when you said "I went to university so have the right to an opinion, you didn't go to university so therefore don't have a right to an opinion".
And as for your suggestion that not going to university "marks you out as being a bit ignorant". You've just proved that someone can be pig- ignorant, despite having gone to university.
Ignore him scraprider ......you are as entitled as anyone else to talk complete bollox.
you are as entitled as anyone else to talk complete bollox.
Never said he wasn't. Where did I say he din't have the right to talk bollox? Hmm?
I defend his right to talk bollox as much as yours.
You probbly want to lock up anyone what disagrees with you though. Fascist.
You're just bitter because you were turned down for Catering Management at Croydon Polytechnic in 1978...
What you saw was what the media found exciting, as the rest of the demo was probably quite boring by comparison. News reporters always look for the exciting stuff because it makes better telly.
You condescending and patronising ****er. Scraprider wants the police to steam into demonstrating students. What makes you think that it's because he doesn't [i]understand[/i] the situation ?
Where did I say he din't have the right to talk bollox? Hmm?
Well you're not going to say that ......are you ?
No, you would rather try to belittle him by asking him whether he's been to university.
You arrogant conceited over-inflated tw4t.
What did you study at university btw ? Go on.......givvus a laugh.
52,000 students.
35 arrests.
14 injuries.
You arrogant conceited over-inflated tw4t.
Ooh, resorting to insults now Ernie? I mustuv touched a nerve. 🙂
I did Sequin Sewing and Tweed Wefting at the London College of Fashion, if you must know. I spose now you're going to say that isn't a 'proper' degree... 🙄
If you actually read Scraprider's posts, you'll see that he/she is advocating the use of CS gas against people protesting.
But then, you probbly think that's acceptable, as you don't believe in Democracy.
Dunno if you considered this, but maybe if Scraprider had been to Uni, then he/she'd appreciate the student's need to protest about something that affects their education.
Just a thought, like.
London College of Fashion
Really ? I thought it cookery. So anyway.......that gives a moral superiority which allows you to have an opinion does it ?
[b][i]"If you actually read Scraprider's posts"[/i][/b]
Yes I have, and I don't agree with them.
Which I don't mind telling him.
But I don't need to resort to claiming that I'm cleverer or better educated than him. Neither of which I would be able to confirm anyway.
So anyway.......that gives a moral superiority which allows you to have an opinion does it ?
Yes.
Good night Ernie, sleep tight.
X
I went and protested, I personally believe in lower (if not no) University fees for all... I'm currently at Uni and our SU organised us going down.
Most of the demo was pretty placid tbh, from my point of view anyway. It got ugly when we passed Millbank and people started getting in.. from what I saw, there was a definate minority breaking in. Although the mob mentality had people cheering, very few people actually joined in.
I personally went in, with my camera (photos here if you're interested: [url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/k_scars/sets/72157625357668630/ ]My Flickr[/url])
Because I wasn't being directly violent the police had no problem with me being there, in fact didn't even mind their pictures taken!
Luckily the protest coincided with my reading week so I didn't have to skip lectures, and I enjoyed going, it's just a shame that the actions of a definate few are what is going to be on people's minds rather than the issue behind it all.
it's just a shame that the actions of a definate few are what is going to be on [s]people's[/s] arrogant knee jerking morally outraged sheeple's minds rather than the issue behind it all.
HTH
Lifer - Member
52,000 students.35 arrests.
14 injuries.
52,000 students and lecturers.
It was jointly organised by the NUS and UCU. I had to teach otherwise i would have been there.
very little has been achieved by peaceful protest without civil disobedience – 1 million marched against the war – they ignored them
Getting all rioty is a better way of holding the government to account and making them listen than tutting and writing a letter to the Guardian
The system will ignore the issue for a bit and just discuss about peacful protest v direct action . The right to peacful protest is a little like insisting we have the human right to be ignored by our government direct action is more effective if also more unpalatable to some peoples' sensibilities
Elfinsafety this sums it up quite nicely.
KKF; that article's probbly written by someone who went to college/uni, and quite frankly, isn't worth reading as it's so predictably full of tired old stereotypes and clichés.
Going to university should not be seen as some affluent, 'Middle-Class' privilege; it should be seen as something attainable to anyone regardless of background. Articles like that Daily Mash one just perpetuate a redundant old myth.
Jesus, the Conservatives are an evil bunch of bastards.
true up to a point elfin but it was funny and like most satire it had a point.
The "not so" funny point is that i have three teenage kids that all want to go to Uni FFS !!! Im not protesting as it will do **** all.
Seriously looking at apprenticeship based jobs for them, let the employer pay for the fee's, not sure if its the right way but its an option.
Apprenticeships eh? Best of luck with that.
When do you think you are, the 1960s?
This has been brewing for a long time, ever since Blair's regime started setting targets for the number of people he wanted to pump through Uni.
Now that, that has proven to be unaffordable idealism, it's down to the current lot to take the flak. We are all in this together and if that means a few people can't go to Uni, then that's fair enough in my book.
Kids have been brought up to expect top go to Uni, this is wrong in my opinion. Going to Uni should be for the cream of Britain in every field - not every Tom, Dick and Harry. When I started work in '98 having a degree in my field guaranteed a certain starting salary. But nowadays they're so common and many so pointless, that most Graduates come in on piffling salaries.
A Degree should be a gold standard that sets a Graduate apart. We need to get back to that and with fewer people going to University full stop. Besides, it's not as if there aren't alternatives - Open University is significantly cheaper than a Campus Uni for example.
http://www.cityam.com/news-and-analysis/allister-heath/why-protesters-need-reality-check
Hunt saboteurs are delusional half-wits, BTW.
Jimmer- the problem isn't the numbers but that it will price those capable of doing extremely well at uni out of the system. I'm doing well at uni and wouldn't have gone if it cost what it's going to. Same goes for a lot of my friends. I work to fund my way through as well as help from family and the SLC, but the new limits will mean the brightest kids are not given the opportunity to go to the best uni. Wealthy tory types will get places because they can afford it and the country will go down the shitter.
So, did you actually read the link I just posted up?
(shouting)
THE NEW SYSTEM WILL MEAN MOST PEOPLE END UP PAYING A LOT [b]LESS[/b]!
DID YOU YOU HEAR ME? - LESS!
FFS.
and breathe.
People love to get on their high horses when violence occurs in protests...
If you cared enough about something im sure you would go smash up a building to make your point.
Im going to say - i dont think smashing up a conservative building was at all wrong. They deserved it.
Before anyone tries to put words in my mouth im not condoning violence to another man, that is another matter. Perhaps this will make cleggy and cameron realise they are idiots. I doubt it though.
Nah, I only read what jimmer said.
I had a read now and disagree completely- education isn't meant to be a money spinner. It's there to allow smart people to flourish and do better. No university is "losing" money, they're propped up by the government that should want a well educated society that's attractive to foreign businesses, not a well educated minority and hopeless lower classes that're bound into a social class because opportunities are lost to them.
At the minute I'm teaching at a high school in a not very well off area. 6 of the kids in the class of 20 want to go on and do geology degrees. Because of the changes only a couple can afford to. These are kids that wouldn't have gone to uni if they hadn't found such pleasure and done so well at this subject. Now the opportunities for them to go are being shut down.
someone earning an average salary of about £26k will pay £500 a year in repayments under the new system.
they currently pay £1100 a year.
Spokes, i'm talking to you now; the new system will mean more or less everyone pays A LOT LESS.
And how much will they pay in total?
The idea of having that much debt for people from the sort of background the tories want to stamp out is a massive issue, perceived or otherwise, and WILL prevent a lot of people who should be going to uni from going while allowing wealthy kids with lower grades to toddle in and do subjects like Social Anthropology.
Jimmer- the problem isn't the numbers but that it will price those capable of doing extremely well at uni out of the system. I'm doing well at uni and wouldn't have gone if it cost what it's going to. Same goes for a lot of my friends. I work to fund my way through as well as help from family and the SLC, but the new limits will mean the brightest kids are not given the opportunity to go to the best uni. Wealthy tory types will get places because they can afford it and the country will go down the shitter.
But you don't have to pay it at the time. You'll only ever pay off the lot if you earn tons of money, otherwise you just accept 10% less pay once you're earning over £21,000 a year, for the first 30 years after university. It's a graduate tax in disguise really, not them saying that to go to university you have to pay a massive amount of money up front.
This has been brewing for a long time, ever since Blair's regime started setting targets for the number of people he wanted to pump through Uni.
Isn't that an urban myth. I don't think there have ever been these targets. If anything, governments tell off universities for offering too many places, not for letting in too few people.
Also, you seem to be a bit confused suggesting that Blair was in charge of the big increase in university places - that was John Major in 1992, creating hundreds of new universities from polytechnics etc.
Joe
anyone who can't do the basic maths that £500 is less than £1100 is too stupid for university.
In a year, yes, in total, no. I'd rather pay less overall and have some savings.
And as for your suggestion that not going to university "marks you out as being a bit ignorant". You've just proved that someone can be pig- ignorant, despite having gone to university.
I think he said that advocating using CS gas etc marks you out as a bit ignorant, with which it's hard to disagree.
anyone who can't do the basic maths that £500 is less than £1100 is too stupid for university.
What about the ones that can't figure out that £3000 is less than £9000?
DrJ and awhiles are of course both right!
having done my sums a bit better since the thread on the fee raise
[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/so-168000-to-get-my-kids-through-college-what-to-do ]Linky[/url]
it seems to me the plan is to have a pretty straightforward graduate tax, of 9% of income above £21000 for 30 years. You need to have had a pretty low level of loan or a very high salary to have a realistic prospect of paying it off before 30 years, and the government have announced there will be highish penalties for early repayment. I haven't seen full details on these levels though. Even if I had £186,000 in my back pocket to pay my kids through college upfront, it would work out loads cheaper to save the money, let them max out student loans and pay their repayments later, leaving a big chunk to be written off at year 30. If you live by earning and saving before spending rather than by loans and credit, this is hard to adjust to. I think the reason not to just go the whole hog and call it a graduate tax is to do with perceived fairness of taxation systems and legalities around that issue, but it would maybe be cheaper all round and save on a ton of admin, accounting and bureaucracy to just sort out these legalities and make it a tax.
i borrowed £12,000, to pay for fees of £1000/year, and living costs.
in 8 years of working and repayments, i've barely made a dent in the debt. i will be paying for the rest of my (working) life.
i earn almost exactly the average wage, as i suspect, will most graduates.
most people, will, like me, never pay off the debt.
but graduates under the new scheme will pay £50 a month less than i do, they could stick this money in an isa, and have about £40,000 when they retire.
graduates under the new scheme will be about £40,000 better off than me when they retire.
the new scheme is brilliant. it keeps universities funded, and with space for many more students than we as a nation could afford if it was 'free'.
What if you don't qualify for a loan?
ahwiles - Member
(shouting)THE NEW SYSTEM WILL MEAN MOST PEOPLE END UP PAYING A LOT LESS!
DID YOU YOU HEAR ME? - LESS!
FFS.
and breathe.
Isn't it amazing. The government come up with an idea that ensures that those who go on to earn, on average, £100k more (due to getting a degree) then subsidise the system to the advantage of the less well off, whereupon we get a riot from the sort of intelligentsia who are most often heard complaining about the rich who should be taxed to the hilt for the benefit of the poor...
What if you don't qualify for a loan?
That would mean (broadly) you weren't doing a degree style course, under 60 and UK resident.
That would mean (broadly) you weren't doing a degree style course, under 60 and UK resident.
And ... ?
The government come up with an idea that ensures that those who go on to earn, on average, £100k more (due to getting a degree) then subsidise the system to the advantage of the less well off,
If they earn 100K more, then they will pay (approx) 30K more tax, which will nicely pay for the university place of a worthy but impoverished student, n'est-ce pas?