[Closed] Storing a small quantity of diesel safely

http://www.outsource-safety.co.uk/freehelp/87-storage-petrol-diesel-workplace.html

There are no specific legal requirements on how to store diesel or the quantity allowed either in workplaces or domestic premises. [b]It is not, from a health and safety point of view, a particularly hazardous substance[/b] within the meaning of the Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002 - its vapour flash point is too high. This means that its vapour will not ignite at normal room temperatures.

[url= http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/sr16.pdf ]HSE[/url]

ah, I use a carton of paraffin for same purpose - which, now I think about it, is more hazardous than diesel. Have had it for about 10 years though, so when I get some more maybes should get diesel instead..

Tell her not to worry about the diesel, there's loads of cellulose thinners and 2 pack paint in mine.... 😀

You don't even need a proper fuel can for it, I mostly used jam jars.

Would be easier if you didn't tell her about or let her in your shed...

Ah HSE - good call.

Would be easier if you didn't tell her about or let her in your shed...

Stupidly I left the can by the front door while bringing the shopping in.

I'm wondering if I should demonstrate dropping a match into a small pool of diesel to her...

Apparently if you drop a match or cigarette into diesel it will just go out. Just done a quick google and there are comments about guys welding splits in metal fuel tanks on boats and earth moving equipment, whilst the diesel is still leaking. Any fires that do start are just blown out 😯

there's loads of cellulose thinners and 2 pack paint in mine

Yeah, she is oddly unconcerned by the big bottle of meths I have in there.

Tell her its not to far removed from heating oil, which most people that live in rural areas will have about 800litres sat in a plastic tank next to there house.

Or that the litre of sunflower oil you have in your house poses as much risk. That & stop worrying.

2 pack paint in mine

Is that some sort of gangster rapper paint?

Is the shed made of wood? if so I suspect its more likely some scroat sets fire to your shed than the fuel spontaneously ignites!

Since, presumably she doesn't sleep in the shed, and she is intelligent enough to associate flames and smoke with a developing problem I'm not sure what the problem is. Presumably if she 'risk assessed' inside your house you would end up with a fire engine permanently on site, smoke hoods and an escape ladder in your bed room... and presumably she never gets in a car/bus/train/plane which is a confined box travelling at speed with considerably more fuel than your little can...

People have had petrol and diesel in sheds and garages for years with very little incident. Toasters, washing machines and TV's have all however killed people. I'd suggest you have a clear out (it will make more space for bikes too).

My advice is when she returns tonight overpower her, dowse her in diesel and throw a match on her..if that does not learn her how safe it is nothing will 😉

It would make a useful educational video for you tube as well.

[i]Yeah, she is oddly unconcerned by the big bottle of meths I have in there.

[/i]

Maybe that's cos she just sees that as a Vodka substitute? 😉

I went through this exact conversation with Mrs FD and her Father (ex fireman)

She was saying I shold not have diesel in the shed. Her Dad confirmed that you can throw a match on it and it will go out.

He then went on to tell us some fantastic stories about how petrol is a completely different kettle of fish all together!

OP - 1 plastic can of diesel should last you about 5 years of cleaning!

We often have 40 litres of petrol and 70 litres of diesel sat on our drive.

The Diesel Engine was originally designed to run on cooking oil. Diesel in the shed is no more likely to bust into flames than the bottle of olive oil in the cupboard. Best not to mix them up though.

Tell her its not to far removed from heating oil, which most people that live in rural areas will have about 800litres sat in a plastic tank next to there house.

This is an excellent point. Her mates up the road have just such a tank.

Since, presumably she doesn't sleep in the shed, and she is intelligent enough to associate flames and smoke with a developing problem I'm not sure what the problem is.

Well the "Shed" is really a brick outhouse (an old coal bunker and outside lavvy) which to be fair is close enough to the house to be an issue if it was suddenly engulfed in an enormous fireball.

Presumably if she 'risk assessed' inside your house...

Done that 🙂 We had the fire prevention blokey out when our little un was born. (Good way to get free smoke alarms by the way).

OP - 1 plastic can of diesel should last you about 5 years of cleaning!

Yer I know - they wouldn't sell me less than 2 litres.

I'll just use it as a chain bath. Whip chain off (Powerlink FTW) drop it in container (ideally with a mesh in the bottom of it), give it a shake, leave for an hour for all the grime to settle, remove and dry.

I have 750litres of Liquid Petroleum Gas just 3 metres from my kitchen, most of my neighbours have similar - if any one of us had any kind of house fire we would be excluded from all our houses for up to 48hrs afterward.
Do you have a gas bbq...?

Just tell her to "Calm down dear!" 😀 but yes a small amount of diesel in a cooking pan in the garden with a lit match - nothing like a practical demonstration. Diesel needs to be under immense pressure before becoming dangerous hence why diesel engines are so noisy!

What do you do with the dirty diesel? The nice thing about many commercial degreasers is that they are based on biodegradeable oils. Diesel is quite bad for the environment afaik.

Do you have a gas bbq...?

No.

Because I have a penis instead. 😀

is it so smokin hot you cook on it ?

What do you do with the dirty diesel?

Just keep using it. Maybe decant into a different container when the sludge in the bottom gets a bit too thick. Should last many long years.

If/when I eventually get rid of it I'll pop it along to the local council waste bit. They usually have bits for disposing of oils etc.

I think the socially acceptable disposal method for diesel is burning it on the way to the shops or work. Maybe you could rig up a little burner on a rack on the back of your bike or something?

I've cut diesel tanks up for scrap with an oxy-propane torch when they've still got dregs in them.
Even exposed to a 1500 deg C flame, it doesn't catch fire.

"What do you do with the dirty diesel? The nice thing about many commercial degreasers is that they are based on biodegradeable oils. Diesel is quite bad for the environment afaik."

Does your commercial degreaser come in a plastic bottle, been through some kind of refinement/manufacturing process? I bet at the end of the day there isnt much in it.

You can tell her that when I was 15 years old, me and a mate in our naivety attempted to make molotov cocktails out of some empty bottles, rags, and diesel (I have no idea why it just seemed a good idea at the time) The result was staggeringly disappointing due to the diesel's inability to spontaneously explode after the bottles had been thrown and smashed, and the diesel's reluctance to even catch fire before being thrown.

Although we did have much more success in making bombs using both gunpowder and mains supplied gas.

Missus is now freaking out about the "fire hazard" of keeping said diesel in the shed.

I've filmed a Landrover fuel tank half filled with diesel be subjected to a full TRS test and much to our disappointment nothing happened other than it becoming a bit black.

A TRS or thermal radiation simulation consisted of it being sat next to 4 jets of mixed liquid oxygen, propane and aluminium powder. In other words even if the crew are now just a puddle of fat in the foot well at least they wouldn't have been blown up.

I work in a refinery and part of my training involves putting out a diesel fire. The fire station has to pour petrol onto the diesel so it will ignite as the diesel does not give off enough vapour to ignite.

More danger from skin absorption where diesel is concerned. Nitrile gloves are a good idea when handling it.

Do you have a gas bbq...?
--
No.

Because I have a penis instead.

Is this you?

[img] [/img]

"What do you do with the dirty diesel? The nice thing about many commercial degreasers is that they are based on biodegradeable oils. Diesel is quite bad for the environment afaik."

I just take it to the local oil recycling point where it gets recycled. (same place I take my used car oil). Biodegradeable, water-based etc de-greasers are in general, useless and expensive IME.

Does your commercial degreaser come in a plastic bottle, been through some kind of refinement/manufacturing process? I bet at the end of the day there isnt much in it.

I'm not talking about carbon footprint here, diesel is directly toxic (I think) and I suspect pouring it down the drain is a lot more harmful than something made from orange peel.

Nitrile gloves are a good idea when handling it.

Noted, ta!

Is this you?

lol - I wanted to post that same image, but I didn't fancy googling for it on the work PC 😀

I suspect pouring it down the drain is a lot more harmful than something made from orange peel.

Well yeah. But I won't be doing that. I'll be re-using it until it is unusable (which should be many years) then disposing of it properly at a recycling centre. (Or possibly burning it if I can't be arsed).

I do have some basic Muc-Off spray degreaser as well for doing cassettes etc.

More danger from skin absorption where diesel is concerned. Nitrile gloves are a good idea when handling it.

You beat me to it Sandwich

W[b]hen messing with dirty diesel wear the gloves[/b][i]

You can tell her that when I was 15 years old, me and a mate in our naivety attempted to make molotov cocktails out of some empty bottles, rags, and diesel

I mis-read that as 'nativity' and imagined your school plays being a bit more exciting than mine 🙂

Apparently if you drop a match or cigarette into diesel it will just go out

The firebugs n question eventually got a conflagration [b]gong[/b] by setting fire to the seats.

They award medals for anything these days don't they? 😉

Just pour some out into a dish and ask her to try and set light to it with a match.

Light some fluff from the tumble dryer and pop that in the pan of diseasal - it'll act like a wick and then catch alight.

Prudhoe tip has a waste oil disposal if you are not allowed to light it up.

Apparently if you drop a match or cigarette into diesel it will just go out

If you do, might be a good idea not to leave the jerry can in the hot sun for an extended period of time.

Although I don't know how hot it would have to be before it became flamable.

Fuel Flash point Autoignition temperature

Ethanol (70%) 16.6 °C (61.9 °F)[2] 363 °C (685 °F)[2]
Gasoline (petrol) ?43 °C (?45 °F)[3] 280 °C (536 °F)[4]
Diesel >62 °C (144 °F) 210 °C (410 °F)
Jet fuel >60 °C (140 °F) 210 °C (410 °F)
Kerosene (paraffin oil) >38–72 °C (100–162 °F) 220 °C (428 °F)
Vegetable oil (canola) 327 °C (621 °F)
Biodiesel >130 °C (266 °F)

Apparently if you drop a match or cigarette into diesel it will just go out

You can't actually light petrol with a cigarette.

You can't actually light petrol with a cigarette.

But if you dropped a match into petrol there is a very high probability that petrol vapour will ignite, causing further highly flammable vapour to form, despite the liquid petrol not igniting. There is no simular probability with diesel. Which I believe was the poster's point.

Yes you don't want to go anywhere near petrol with a match. My cousin once lost all his hair and eyebrows when he decided to use a match to see what was in a large drum he'd come across. I was referring to the cigarette and petrol just to emphasize the general lack of knowledge people have about things they deal with on a regular basis. Fortunately most people tend to over estimate the dangers which is a lot better than underestimating them.
But to show the problem I bet if you got a hundred people and asked them would they prefer to throw a lit cigarette into a cars fuel tank or drain the fuel tank 99 of them would say drain the tank with no idea that the cigarette could never light the fuel but that draining the tank without earthing the vehicle could theoretically build up a static charge sufficient to set the petrol off.

Moreover, there'd be a heck of a lot more petrol vapour in a recently drained tank, non?

Is the shed made of wood? if so I suspect its more likely some scroat sets fire to your shed than the fuel spontaneously ignites!

I think you misunderstand spontaneous.

When I do my fire fighting course (every couple of years) the only way they can light the diesel fo the simulated liquid fire is to warm the surface with a propane burner, usually for some time. Having said that, one it's been burning a bit, it's obviosully a lot more ready to re-ignite.

I'd just tell her indoors I'd used the diesel in the car, in fact I would actually use most of it in the car... (obviouslly I have a diesel car)

Oh and it's not the hydrocarbons I'd worry about - it's the biocides and additives.

6000 litres by a stock shed, really shouldn't worry, greater chance of the spring water supply harming the animals.

Diesel just bloody stinks , I would use something else, apart from being nasty stuff to get on your hands . Plenty of other options.