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I signed it.
We in the UK [b]think we have[/b] some of the best welfare standards in the World - because We [b]think we are[/b] an animal loving nation
FTFY.
Whereas the reality is most of us will eat owt, as long as it's cheap.
I dunno. People willingly pack themselves into crowded commuter trains, where diseases spread very easily indeed, or sit in huge traffic jams breathing in carcinogenic fumes, yet worry about the poor ickle cowsy-wowsies.
🙄
You're not doing yourself any favours and are obviously too obsessed with your own point of view to accept any other argument
When it comes to animal welfare I don't think there really is an argument is there?
Its not solely the public that needs re-educating, the government and EU can provide legislation against this sort of thing. But money will always win the day!
Whereas the reality is most of us will eat owt, as long as it's cheap.
True. I do stand by my statement about UK welfare standards though !
LHS you are sounding a bit like the chap on last year Sports Colostrum post!
LHS
Top tip: go work on a farm for a year so you are a little better informed.. Im impressed by your zeal but you are woefully ill in-formed as to the realities of dairy farming. I think a little experience in the real World of modern agriculture would do you the power of good..
Before you ask I spent 5 yrs working in farming & in that time I covered most of the bases; from goats to dairy to sheep to beef to poultry to arable..
LHSTop tip: go work on a farm for a year so you are a little better informed
I don't need to thanks. Every day I walk my dog past vast fields of cows that are eating nice healthy grass and source my meat from the local butcher who uses said cows and the local dairy who sources milk from said cows.
If I walked past a concrete multi-story car park jam packed full of cows who never saw daylight I would make sure I would not be sourcing my food from there!
Its really that simple.
in that time I covered most of the bases; from goats to dairy to sheep to beef to poultry
How you spend your personal time should be private!!
I think I'm wasting my time. I'm off to see some animals! 🙄
on last year Sports Colostrum post
Coincidently I was thinking about that earlier as I was reading an article on a possible link between colostrum & bone marrow disease (in calves).
I decided not to drag it out of the depths of past threads. 🙂
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I don't need to thanks. Every day I walk my dog past vast fields of cows that are eating nice healthy grass and source my meat from the local butcher who uses said cows and the local dairy who sources milk from said cows.
Im wondering what else you walk past everyday that you are an expert on..(this bloke sounds perfect for this place!)
🙄
Seriously is this a troll now?
Every day I walk my dog past vast fields of cows that are eating nice healthy grass
Where is it you live again LHS?
Cows are not humans. Seems an obvious point I know, but I don't think the tendency to anthromoporphise the creatures is a great help, frankly.
It's very hard to tell which the cows prefer. They don't have very expressive faces, do they? In fact, they look exactly the same in all three environments.
AFAIA, animals express their "moods" through different behaviours, none of which seem to obtain insofar as their accommodation and feed is concerned, from the cows...
There they are, placidly standing or sitting - munching away - producing calves and milk.
Munch munch. Munch munch.
I don't think LHS can get his head round the argument unless he thinks about what he would do if he was a cow though.
I'd stay indoors, but I'd want a play station.
It's very hard to tell which the cows prefer. They don't have very expressive faces, do they? In fact, they look exactly the same in all three environments.
I'm guessing you could rig some cows up to test blood pressure, heart rate or whatever - you might find they're happier all close together with the rest of the herd in a secure, predator-free environment than they are out in a field. No idea.
And LHS, please: it's "hear hear", not "here here".
Repack, do you not like to know where your food comes from? Do you just blindly assume that its coming from good sources? More fool you.
Quick question for you all in support of this.
Would you prefer to eat meat and drink milk from organic sources where the cows are free to roam in fields and eat grass, or from the concrete car parks?
I used to own a cow, it was called "Lucky" the one on the left 😉
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A orphan from a farm I used to work on, was the nuttiest thing I ever owned!
Tame cows have to be the most silly & dangerous things on a farm!
Lived a happy long life mind & yes I am with LHS, Cows should be in fields.
Repack, do you not like to know where your food comes from? Do you just blindly assume that its coming from good sources? More fool you.
must be a bugger when you eat out LHS, what with having to get all the provenance for the food etc before you even order
Would you prefer to eat meat and drink milk from organic sources where the cows are free to roam in fields and eat grass, or from the concrete car parks?
I really have no preference as long as it tastes good
Would you prefer to eat meat and drink milk from organic sources where the cows are free to roam in fields and eat grass, or from the concrete car parks?
I didn't realise they were keeping cows in car parks as well! Seems a bit odd.
But anyway, if it's no different as far as the cows are concerned (and that does seem to be the case), then as long as the meat and milk tastes good and contains all the proper nutrients, contented cows, contented me.
I really don't care which...
Why should I?
must be a bugger when you eat out LHS
Not particularly, most of the pubs and restaurants will (in most cases proudly) say where they source there produce from. In fact one of my favourite pubs (about 6 miles away) sources its beef from the farm next to my house. The same can be said for fish too.
Makes the mind boggle that when I am in the UK its all Alaskan Salmon, and when in the US its Scottish Salmon!
Why should I?
I really have no preference as long as it tastes good
Say's it all really. Its people like you who are driving poor practice 🙁
Why should I?
If you don't care about animal welfare and sustainable farming then you shouldn't!
Say's it all really. Its people like you who are driving poor practice
I don't think it's poor practice, I thought you realised?
I think we should let this thread drop off the end. LHS clearly isn't interested in sensible debate, rather advertising this petition.
LHS, any reason why you won't give me a clue where you live? I won't stalk you I promise! If I were more cynical I'd think you were a NIMBY with no real care about animal welfare.
Prove me wrong. Tell me where you are in relation to the site and engage in debate over the treatment of the animals or STFU.
I don't live anywhere near the proposed site.
or STFU
Elegant! Is that swear filter avoidance
If you can't contribute to the debate without the need for swearing then perhaps you should move on!
LHS
I probably, no actually Ill change that, I DO know more about how my food is farmed & where it comes from than you. How do I know that? From experience, from working within the industry you have happily admitted the closest you have ever got to is walking through a field.
I DO know more about how my food is farmed & where it comes from than you
Maybe you're too close to the money side of things. It can blinker your opinion. You just see the animals as a commodity don't you?
So this is basically about you wanting to stop the view from your kitchen being ruined. Nice.
LHS - Member
Why should I?
If you don't care about animal welfare and sustainable farming then you shouldn't!
Selectively quoting people isn't helping your case here. Given the arguments you've shown on this thread, I certainly won't be signing the petition.
Blinkered? Pot kettle black!
My experience comes from getting my hands dirty, shoveling sh1t, ploughing fields, pulling 14hrs days for wks at a time, DOING THE DIRTY HARD WORK that puts food on YOUR table (Ok you pay for it but its thanks to the likes of me & others who do this work that makes your food available to you).
I can guarantee you that the vast majority of farm workers care deeply for their charges well-being, more than you will ever realise unless some day you get up close & personal with the industry you are trying to demonise.
ps Im out of here - Ive got more important things to do..
Nice debating skills, try and divert attention!
Which kitchen anyway? I live in 2 different countrys so you will need to be more specific?
Given the arguments you've shown on this thread, I certainly won't be signing the petition.
Your choice, and how am I selectively quoting? Please explain?
Neil Darwent, a Somerset dairy farmer with a herd of 400 dairy cows, also spoke out against Nocton.“I am a farmer and have no wish to cause trouble for fellow farmers. But I believe farming and food production has becoming too concerned with creating short term profits rather than securing a truly sustainable source of food for our nation.
Nice debating skills, try and divert attention!Which kitchen anyway? I live in 2 different countrys so you will need to be more specific?
I was actually against this before for a number of reasons, none of which being animal welfare. Since this thread brought it to my attention again and I've done further research, I shall be actively supporting the unit.
I shall be actively supporting the unit.
Why? What changed your mind?
The only solution is culling the human. Keep the maggots human population manageable low to maintain resources. Swine we are. 😈
To change 'tack':
[i]I was surprised the supermarkets didn't seem to be supporting the plans though, although I'm sure as soon as one of the big 4 did the others would quickly (and quietly) follow. [/i]
The main reason the supermarkets won't like this (and the Tomato Farm also on the Beeb) is that they move the supplier/customer relationship back towards the supplier - and the Supermarkets like been 'boss'.
As for the cow farm, certainly looked cleaner than most of the shoddy farms I've seen.
Signed. I only buy organic dairy stuff so am voting with wallet too.
these mega dairies could actually produce 'organic' milk - nothing about organic means outdoors.
if the diary industry does not move to new methods we will not have an UK milk industry (yes the supermarkets are probably killing the price) and ultimately we will be importing 100% of our milk from all over the place with even less control on how animals are cared for..
The video on the tv of the mega dairies (sorry not been able to go to the states to see, though would like to ) the cows look quite happy... they seems to spend just as much time sitting about chewing the cud as they would without a roof. Lot of cows spend winter in doors now anyhow, plus on the mega diaries they decide themselves when to toddle off for milking.
additionally the move to semi outdoor sheds allows better management of slurry and as such it can be better collected and then digested on site to produce biogas for energy production, further reducing the impact of milk production.
may even help with the control of TB in cattle.. something that is a real issue for farmers
just my thoughts..
thanks for clearing up the 'organic' word for us rootes1, that really gets my goat that one.
these mega dairies could actually produce 'organic' milk - nothing about organic means outdoors
Organic refers to the process of treating animals humanely, minimising environmental impact and reducing the presence of synthetic chemicals in milk, and food.
So unlike the mega-dairies, the cattle are only given antibiotics when needed (which is less than mega-dairies due to the poor conditions they are kept in). They also don't spray the fields with chemical pesticides on the grass.
No organic cow can be kept indoors all year round. They have more space for grazing which keeps them healthier.
Does anyone else posting on this thread live on a cattle farm?
Your choice, and how am I selectively quoting? Please explain?
Because by only quoting the bit "why should I?" you're selectively ignoring all the preceding text which makes it quite clear the poster does care about animal welfare, and does care about the quality of the meat/milk produced. The quote in its entirety is:
But anyway, if it's no different as far as the cows are concerned (and that does seem to be the case), then as long as the meat and milk tastes good and contains all the proper nutrients, contented cows, contented me.I really don't care which...
Why should I?
It's not just debating skills: you've ruined your point by coming across as a fanatic, unwilling to see the other side of the argument (or even consider that there could possibly be another side).
I shall be actively supporting the unit.Why? What changed your mind?
You kinda did.