[Closed] state terrorism

That s exactly what history will remember when explaining how we invaded the country, [planted the protestant population there] and [ignoring a few hundred years of oppression for brevity] ignored the all Ireland vote 1918 and , sent in the black and tans, partioned the country then bravely defended the state we created from the terrorists 😕

those who choose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it

Those who wish to get all jingoistic and nationalist are likely to ignore it completely and give a more fairy tale account of our brave boys.

Its a messy situation but simplistic breast beating is a little silly.

Andyruss- You can bet that if there was a truth and reconcilliation process a certain Mr Adams and a Mr Mcguiness would find some way to dodge telling the truth and how involved they were.

More comedy gold from bloodynora. 😆

The gift that keeps on, erm, giving.

Can't handle a different viewpoint deadlydarcy, no surprise really. A mick with two chips is quite amusing though 😆

when explaining how we invaded the country

Point of order - actually you'll find that we were [i]invited[/i] there to help Diarmait Mac Murchada reclaim his seat as King of Leinster, he asked for help from Henry II'nd - Funnily enough also with the support of a papal bull from the Catholic church...

All the way back to 1169, we've been trying to stop the buggers killing each other 😉

bloodynora - Member
Can't handle a different viewpoint deadlydarcy, no surprise really. A mick with two chips is quite amusing though

btw is casual racism allowed on the forum these days?

Funnily enough also with the support of a papal bull from the Catholic church...

A mick with two chips

😆

Now, in case you're struggling to understand, that's [i]at[/i] you not [i]with[/i] you. Anyway, seeing, as for once, you've hung around for the debate, which is uncharacteristic of you...let's be going on with:

sinn fein/IRA

A fan of the Reverend are we? Good man bloodynora! A better role model I couldn't find for you.

Can't handle a different viewpoint deadlydarcy

Of course I can. I'd love to debate with you all day...it's just that you never normally hang around for it. I dunno, it's like you have nothing intelligent to add apart from a few ill thought out phrases and some casual insults...I mean, that's your style isn't it? You almost sound like a bit of a loyalist or something...why don't you clarify that for us.

You always seem to conveniently ignore that there were two sides committing atrocities. Can you tell me why this is? Or do you realise it but struggle to bring yourself to write it down?

And let's just clear this up a wee bit...

A mick with two chips is quite amusing though

is pretty insulting and shows yourself up as what kind of a person you are rather than demeaning me. If it came from someone I respected on here, I'd be worried about it. But, y'know, as it's you...

this has descended into a slagfest-- but who has brought it down to that level-- the bulldog brigade , no political backbone- pure reactionary ideology bathed in the soup of royalism , the stench of hypocracy is nauseous, let me have some air before you shoot me ...

N.lrland has made great strides to move on from the troubles. The trouble withinquiries in ulster is that they would have to be on both sides. Mud slinging starts again then the killings. The Stw permanent apologist always fail to see this and want inquiry after inquiry blaming one side only ,normally the British government or army. Move on the majority of decent people who live there are trying to. Simples

The Stw permanent apologist

😆

The trouble withinquiries in ulster is that they would have to be on both sides.

How do you mean "both sides"? There wasn't an official republican armed police force or paramilitary regiment? There were terrorists on "both sides" and there was the RUC - an almost exclusively Protestant, mostly Unionist, very Orange and quite loyalist police force that encouraged and enabled a loyalist terrorist to knock off a solicitor, even though solicitors were generally no-go targets. An instrument of the state did this. The trouble with an inquiry is that it would drag up all the other collusions between the RUC and loyalist terrorists.

What inquiry into Adams and McGuinness do you want exactly? Jesus wept, even Paisley for all that is wrong with him managed to find it in his cold cold heart to shake hands. And all you can do to justify the lack of an inquiry (which I'm not too keen on either, but I suspect for different reasons to you) is bleat on about McGuinness, Adams et al "not having to answer..."

Did you really should read posts. Ulster is trying to move on. Atrocities were committed on both sides,is that to hard for you to understand. Bringing one side to justice because it suits your political believe is pointless. Sometimes our past hast to remain there for the good of the future. Gerry Adams always claimed the IRA were alegitimate army fighting a legitimate war ,so with that would they not be open to war crimes. O l forgot not in your world because there wasn't a women or child they killed who didn't deserve it right.

The above argument is yet more proof of why there will never, ever be peace in Northern Ireland.

Jeez, between yourself and bloodynora you're properly specialising in ridiculous insults and accusations.

So, erm, because Adams claimed they were a legitimate army, that opens them up to a similar level of scrutiny to a [i]police[/i] force? As part of the Good Friday Agreement, terrorists from [i]both[/i] sides were released. That is what moving on is about, not sweeping terrorist collusion by a police force under the carpet, as you'd like to do.

On another point, you're flinging around accusations to a stranger on a forum like:

O l forgot not in your world because there wasn't a women or child they killed who didn't deserve it right.

and then talking about "moving on"? Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

The above argument is yet more proof of why there will never, ever be peace in Northern Ireland.

Erm, Northern Ireland is comparatively [i]very[/i] peaceful these days.

Compared to what? Libya?

Mick comment out of order btw.

Compared to what? Libya?

Compared to the seventies, eighties and nineties, yes. Riots such as those over the last few weeks over flag flying wouldn't even have made the news some time ago.

DD

So, erm, because Adams claimed they were a legitimate army, that opens them up to a similar level of scrutiny to a police force?

Yes. Murder is murder.

Oh and they now hold ministerial positions.

Reconciliation demands that both sides to account, not just one.

In your argument you demean and devalue the people murdered by the IRA & PIRA which I doubt was your aim.

All parties were as bad as each other. The PIRA weren't the little terrorist group been crushed by the British government. They were a formidable force classifying themselves as an army with considerable resources care of their american fund raising. They would also run south of the border were eqaully corrupt forces would turn a blind eye to their activities in the north. Lets not mention their extensive collaberation with middle east terror groups which now draws a comparison with the Blair era.

Small minded people want their revenge either in the courts or on the streets at the expense of the general public. Have as many inquiries as you wish but it won't help the healing process out there. Instead it will just fan the flames and 20 years of progress will be flushed down the pan.

In your argument you demean and devalue the people murdered by the IRA & PIRA which I doubt was your aim.

If you could explain how?

eqaully corrupt forces would turn a blind eye to their activities in the north.

Equally? Really?!?

Put 'em away boys 😀
Finucane is dead, same as lots of people as a result of the NI "troubles". Dirtyness was done by both sides. Either one calling foul at the other is frankly ludicrous.
Let him and everyone else rest and get on with looking forward, not back.

Yes, equally. Even the US has been accused of leaking British Intelligence to PIRA

You may also wish to research the fact of the PIRA knee capping plenty of their kids because they were joy riding. Not because they stole the cars but because it brought the forces out on the streets to arrest the joyriders making harder for the PIRA to move around. Not quite the nice freedom fighters trying to unite Ireland.
Both sides had huge drugs trades financing their operations so neither side of the arguement were looking out for their own people.

In your argument you demean and devalue the people murdered by the IRA & PIRA which I doubt was your aim.
If you could explain how?

So the victims and their families of Republican violence don't deserve closure as well?

Did you bother to read my post further?

How to have a meaningful peace, reconciliation has to be all inclusive and transparent. Why would you want it any different?

The bottom line here is that Call me Dave will not be having any public inquiries into anything, ever again! No matter what happens! No matter who calls for it! Full stop!

He was bounced by public pressure into the leveson inquiry, and from the moment he announced it, the whole can of duplicitous worms spread out in all kinds of unforeseen directions, he and his friends had thought the public would never see. And then ultimately, conclusions were reached that his powerful friends find unpalatable, so he now has to go through the humiliating and politically damaging process of studiously ignoring its main points.

And you think he's going to ever announce another inquiry into a subject as potentially explosive, ever again? Dream on! He's not that stupid!

The RUC could have been executing people in the street in front of their kids, and we still wouldn't get a public inquiry. Not a chance!

So the victims and their families of Republican violence don't deserve closure as well?

While I assume that those left behind when someone is murdered by terrorists on either side probably never get "closure" in the same way that someone who has lost family due to natural or accidental death, the Good Friday Agreement went a long way towards starting the process of a peaceful endgame. Prisoners from both sides were released, power-sharing was properly put in place and cross-border initiatives were set up to include the Republic of Ireland in certain decisions.

How to have a meaningful peace, reconciliation has to be all inclusive and transparent.

I think what's happened so far has been as transparent as anyone could wish for. Yes, of course it could be better and there could be "better" peace instead of people rioting over a flag or being told where they can march, but things have come a long way.

Why would you want it any different?

I'm going to have to go for you misrepresenting my position here, not sure if intentional or unintentional. But don't worry, you're just joining the list with bloodynora, craigxxl and andyruss so you're probably in decent company from your point of view.

While I assume that those left behind when someone is murdered by terrorists on either side probably never get "closure" in the same way that someone who has lost family due to natural or accidental death, the Good Friday Agreement went a long way towards starting the process of a peaceful endgame. Prisoners from both sides were released, power-sharing was properly put in place and cross-border initiatives were set up to include the Republic of Ireland in certain decisions.

But this go far enough. IMHO. Hence the ongoing calls for public enquiries for different and legitimate reasons. The argument from HMG in this case is the floodgate argument which in itself is disturbing.

Peace has gained a valid platform at every level of society. That society is changing but there are polarised and entrenched views form both sides and extremists on both sides will seek to put their view across. It seems that neither side in this argument has the support of the wider community.

No misrepresentation intended. It was a question. My point was how can you put forward for another public enquiry (justified or not) without calling for a more inclusive forum for individuals to ask for their rights to be excessed.

The SA Truth and reconciliation commission has had it critics, replacing justice with the aim of reconciliation.

I wish i had the answer, but much better minds than mine haven't resolved this issue and there seems no justice for the unpunished. However the peace has held, the polarising of communities is diminishing and people are not being murdered simply because of their religion.

The Stw permanent apologist always fail to see this

What we fail to see that terrorists did bad things?
It would be impossible to fail to see this

Rather I feel some want to just sweep under the carpet the fact that a legitimate and democratically elected govt did bad things whilst denying they did bad things- they think it was ok and they deserved it which makes us no worse than terrorists. I am more concerned about this sort of apologist and I have seen no one defend the IRA or its tactics but there is plenty of people defending "our side" whilst accepting they wre no better or worse than the terrorists . It is inevitable that legitimate govts will be held up to standards higher than terrorists as it is obvious terrorists will do bad things to create terror. As yet we have not been honest about our collusion

Gerry Adams always claimed the IRA were a legitimate army fighting a legitimate war ,so with that would they not be open to war crimes.

O l forgot not in your world because there wasn't a women or child they killed who didn't deserve it right.

All parties were as bad as each other

Not quite the nice freedom fighters trying to unite Ireland.