Why doesn't someone admit that even if like me you've paid N.I. contributions for 38 years we don't actually want to pay you ANY pension at all ?A similar con to endowments.You get on the home stretch then hey presto the finish line gets further away.
I guess it's our fault for living longer and also our fault for getting the country into the mess it's in.Funny thing is it wasn't actually it was the people telling us we don't want to pay you your pension,Hmmmm.
When the idea of a state pension was first invented, a rather small proportion of people survived to retirement age. 85 is probably about the right level today I reckon. 🙂
Also the state pension is paid out of current taxation - the government have never taken your taxes and invested* them somewhere, so you have actually been paying the pension of everyone who has retired whilst you have been working.
Fair? no, but that's governments for you ( and to state the obvious, they can only take money from those that actually go out and earn some ).
* not investment in government terms, but proper investment where there is a return on capital.
Alternatively I suppose we could accept you retiring younger but then rationing your health care. It's swings and roundabouts really. 🙂
not investment in government terms, but proper investment where there is a return on capital.
rest assured, had this ever happened, someone would have found a way to steal it. The best thing to do with money is spend it quick before it gets nicked.
When the idea of a state pension was first invented, a rather small proportion of people survived to retirement age. 85 is probably about the right level today I reckon.
So because the NHS is too good we all live longer?
[dailywailmodeon]
Bring back Thatcher, burn the NHS, get the poor dying younger again and then we'll be alright.
[/dailywailmodeoff]
😉
Count yourself lucky. Those of us in our 20s and 30s can only hazard a guess at what age we'll have to work to as the new century moves on. My parents retired in the last 8 years and commented to us, when last we visited, that their generation probably benefited most from the post war state system. They saw their homes grow in value considerably, had good health and as teachers they have both received good state pensions. Lucky devils.
The way things are going, most people will die at their desks before they can retire.
I think I assumed I wasnt going to get a state pension about 10 years ago - in that if I was either eligible (unlikely) it would be worthless in real terms by then.
As for payment from current taxation, ideally UK plc would have done what he Norwegians did with their North Sea oil proceeds and built up a sovereign wealth fund of other assets (gold, bonds, property, shares etc etc) to the tune of $200,000 for every man, woman and child in their country.
Unfortunately the Thatcher government used the windfall to salvage the economy after the last Labour government tried to destroy it 🙂
And no-one has thought to remedy the situation since....ah well.
stoner - That nice Gordon fellow helped alleviate the problem of keeping stock of our gold reserves.
And no-one has thought to remedy the situation since....ah well.
In fact Stoner - they made it worse - remember Gordon "The Pension Robber" Brown's first budget?
Gordon really was a great chancellor don't you think?
We're also paying out more in benefits than we raise in income tax these days. Is this country really viable any more? I assume so but I can't see why - maybe the imigrants will save us?!
Is there anything more dangerous than an idiot who is utterly convinced of his own genius?
Does anyone know if it's still a good idea to be contracted out of SERPS or not?
In fact Stoner - they made it worse - remember Gordon "The Pension Robber" Brown's first budget?
You do know that previous Tory chancellors also raided pension funds when it suited them don't you? Gordon Brown was by no means the first to do this.
gonefishin - need examples and evidence please, can't imagine anyone doing as much damage as Gordon did.
If we stopped trying to be a "world power"
Got to grips that we need to be an exporting nation to "make money"
Control the dependency culture
Stop pandering to every social need, want or "its my right" nonsense
Invest in proper manufacturing industry that provides proper jobs, wealth and tax people who fairly who actually work, then perhaps the welfare state we value may be able to deliver.
**** the state
I've looked after my self
semi retired at 40
only work for interest /enjoyment /helping other people
If we stopped trying to be a "world power"
Agreed. Bin the nukes for starters, then the on-order aircraft carriers, anything designed to make the military 'expeditionary' and stick to defending the UK.
We don't even need nukes to retain a seat on the security council (if thats what we want) because all permanent members have the right to veto and all permanent members have to agree to a change in membership of the permanent security council, Would the UK vote itself off?
Would the UK vote itself off?
do the Thatcher thing and sell the place off to the highest bidder
I stopped my NI payments about 3 weeks ago, live overseas now and probably wont see a penny of it when i do retire. Can any of the last 15 years NI payments be retrieved/tranferred?
Fine by me. Raise it to a more realistic age of 75. When I retire I'll have to find something to do and I don't do anything I don't get paid for. Oh hang on...
mudshark here you go
[url= http://www.opalliance.org.uk/decline.htm ]Back in 1988 Nigel Lawson decided to tax pension fund "surpluses" to prevent companies using the pension funds as a money box for tax avoidance purposes.[/url]
and from later on in that page
In 1993 Norman Lamont reduced the value of tax credit on share dividend payments for pension schemes to 25% which later provided Gordon Brown with the idea of abolishing it altogether.
So there are some references for you.
Gordon Brown removed the subsidy the general taxpayer gave to private pensions - nothing to do with state pensions. Why should the taxpayer subsidise the richest peoples pensions?
Many of the big companies took contribution holidays on their pension funds as well.
Blame where it is due but on this one you are simply wrong - mixing up different issues
Whilst yes they are two different things, to call the tax rebate a "subsidy" is disengenuous. Tax is not paid on pension contributions, it is also not paid on the capital growth of the fund so why should dividend payments that are reinvested into the fund be treated any differently? Additionally it sends the wrong signal to the population. If you want to encourage people to not depend on the state in their old age then incentives are what you should give them, you shouldn't be penalising them.
This was never a taxpayer subisdy of the richest peoples pensions, this was an expedient way of generating revenue by taxing everyones private pension scheme, rich or poor.
The poor don't have private pensions - hence it effectively was a transfer of funds from general taxation into the pockets of the well off.
The poor don't have private pensions
It wasn't just provate pensions, but company pensions as well. Are you seriously trying to suggest that everyone with a pension fund is rich?
You have an NHS pension I assume?
hence it effectively was a transfer of funds from general taxation into the pockets of the well off.
No, it was a disincentive to save.
Let's all just borrow money and spend like there's no tomorrow, yippee! What can possibly go wrong?
That's what the UK has done for the last 10 years, and now we are up a creek.
Why should the taxpayer subsidise the richest peoples pensions?
Here you go again with this nonsense. TJ why do you assume everyone with a private or company pension is rich? Many ordinary people of modest means are in company pension schemes that are being filched by Brown. So much for the party that came to power promising to encourage people to make provision for themselves and thus reduce the burden on the state.
Additionally it sends the wrong signal to the population. If you want to encourage people to not depend on the state in their old age then incentives are what you should give them, you shouldn't be penalising them.
no, get them to buy private pensions and then have all the money vanish down a hole...
Many ordinary people of modest means are in company pension schemes that are being filched by Brown
or anyone else that can lay their hands on them 🙁
Good link BTW gonefishing.
Have some sympathy with your view there SFB. Fortunately pensions are better safeguarded these days post Robert Maxwell although I dare say not bulletproof by any means. Trouble is how else are we to save for our old age? Gold bars under the mattress?
Well tax has to come from somewhere so governments just have to raise it in the they think fairest. Labour have seemingly been trying to make the poorer better off, and the middle classes have been paying for it, trouble is I hear there are plenty of poor people about so something's gone wrong.
Up on the downs - sorry mate it is not nonsense. The vast majority of private pension funds are used by the better off.
Tax relief on pensions is a transfer of money [i] on the whole[/i] from rich to poor. Very few folk on low incomes have private pensions
vast majority of private pension funds are used by the better off.
I have difficulty believing your statement. Source please. There are a lot of people like self employed tradesmen who are not rich and use private pensions.
You haven't answered my point about company schemes which contain the pensions of millions of people on modest incomes?
The vast majority of private pension funds are used by the better off.
Depends what you mean by "better off". Better off than who?
The trouble with New Labour is they have squeezed the ordinary working people in the middle who are neither rich nor poor, while letting rich people off scot free.
letting rich people off scot free
Agree but squeezing the rich doesn't raise that much revenue as there aren't that many of them and Gordon wanted to keep his city mates sweet.